Ask an OMFS resident anything

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armorshell

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Studying for an exam and I need something to bounce back to between bouts of studying. I've exhausted all my normal options, so feel free to go crazy.

I'm sure some of my co-residents will pop in as well so you might even get a few viewpoints.

For reference, I'm a first year OMFS resident.
 
my main question is this: were the omfs residents the top students in undergraduate?...are they super super smart and or do u think it is more their work ethic that got them in? is doing well in ugrad different from doing well in dschool thanks.
 
At what point in your dental career (or you life in general) did you know that you wanted to pursue OMSF?

Can you describe how competitive the specialty to a pre-dent? (ex. Your transcript from d-school must be filled with A's or Honors or you must have x number of publications, etc etc).

Why do you think the program accepted you? (What made you stood out?)
 
I've heard that many dental students are interested in going into surgery until they try it out (during an externship, rotation, etc.) and see what it's all about, and then they decide not to pursue it. Do you know what aspects of it turn people off, or what aspects people weren't expecting? In other words, what are common misimpressions of OMFS and what should students expect?
 
How many of the students in your program were involved in an externship at your current program?

(You've mentioned that many programs like students who they are familiar with.)
 
What was your rank and Part I score if you don't mind asking?

what minimum rank and part I score do you think we need in order to be successfully match? (by looking at your co-OMFS)
 
my main question is this: were the omfs residents the top students in undergraduate?...are they super super smart and or do u think it is more their work ethic that got them in? is doing well in ugrad different from doing well in dschool thanks.

Generally I think it's a combination of work ethic and being smart. As far as being top students in undergrad, I think theres a mix, but you can be sure everyone did pretty dang well while in dental school.

Doing well in dental school is somewhat different since your work ethic comes in to play more with lab classes and patients. You can't just skate by with being brilliant like some people can in undergrad.
 
At what point in your dental career (or you life in general) did you know that you wanted to pursue OMSF?

After I shadowed an OMFS as a pre-dent and did a substantial amount of research.


Can you describe how competitive the specialty to a pre-dent? (ex. Your transcript from d-school must be filled with A's or Honors or you must have x number of publications, etc etc).

A good metric is the top 10% of your class and a good boards score. What the admissions exam will be for OMFS in the future is in dispute right now, so top 10% of class is the most objective metric. Research and EC's are nice, but by no means necessary for acceptance to OMFS.


Why do you think the program accepted you? (What made you stood out?)

I had a good application and I externed there. It's a very competitive residency and there's little anyone can do to truly impress a committee of oral surgeons.
 
I've heard that many dental students are interested in going into surgery until they try it out (during an externship, rotation, etc.) and see what it's all about, and then they decide not to pursue it. Do you know what aspects of it turn people off, or what aspects people weren't expecting? In other words, what are common misimpressions of OMFS and what should students expect?

I think what turns most people off is the length and difficulty/strain of training and that's about it.

I don't think there are too many misrepresentations of what OMFS residency is like; externship programs are very common and give you a chance to live like a resident for a long time. To not know what you're getting into (and still be accepted) would be very hard in OMFS. My residency is exactly what I expected it would be like.
 
How many of the students in your program were involved in an externship at your current program?

(You've mentioned that many programs like students who they are familiar with.)

Not sure for the whole program (Which has 26 residents and 6 non-categorical interns) but I can tell you in my year 3/5 of us externed here and 1 of the interns did as well.
 
I'm trying to decide between medicine and dentistry.

Do you think girls dig oral surgeons?

How would you compare it to anesthesiologists?
 
What was your rank and Part I score if you don't mind asking?

what minimum rank and part I score do you think we need in order to be successfully match? (by looking at your co-OMFS)

My rank was 3/142 and my Part 1 was 97. I won't post the lowest boards score in my class of residents but I will say the median was a 96.

I have no idea what any of my classmates ranks were.
 
Is that a penis shaped cavity in your avatar? That's not your tooth, is it?
 
will that person have penis breath for the rest of their life now?
 
My rank was 3/142 and my Part 1 was 97. I won't post the lowest boards score in my class of residents but I will say the median was a 96.

I have no idea what any of my classmates ranks were.

OMG that's nearly impossible stat 👍

Now I understand why people say OMFS is soooo hard to match

Thanks for sharing the info Dr. armorshell!!!
 
if you really want to be an surgeon with the lifestyle of a OS attending, should you just go to med school? or is it not feasible for a premed to bank on it?
 
if you really want to be an surgeon with the lifestyle of a OS attending, should you just go to med school? or is it not feasible for a premed to bank on it?

I don't understand what you're trying to ask. If you want to be an OMFS you have to go to dental school period. What do you mean by bank on it?
 
First of all, thanks for doing this, Armorshell.

How many hours a night do you get to sleep as an OMS resident? Is it really that stressful? Could you give me an example schedule of your week? Are there more 6 year OMS programs than 4 year ones (purely numberwise)? (I'm not gonna ask about which one is better/easier/tougher/whatever because that's a can of worms I will not open).

Thanks again!
 
First of all, thanks for doing this, Armorshell.

How many hours a night do you get to sleep as an OMS resident? Is it really that stressful? Could you give me an example schedule of your week? !

Depends on where you are. When I'm on OMFS service as an intern, my schedule had me awake from 4am-12am daily and 2 nights of getting destroyed on call every week. I was usually at the hospital from 4:45AM to around 6 nightly, longer if I had conference.

Now that I'm in medical school my weeks are generally much more relaxed. Imagine the second year of dental school with no dental courses and slightly more difficult didactics.


Are there more 6 year OMS programs than 4 year ones (purely numberwise)? (I'm not gonna ask about which one is better/easier/tougher/whatever because that's a can of worms I will not open).

Thanks again!

I think 4 and 6 year programs are split roughly evenly.
 
I don't understand what you're trying to ask. If you want to be an OMFS you have to go to dental school period. What do you mean by bank on it?

i was talking about being a surgeon which could include anything between gen surg to ophthalmology (OS included). Clearly the path to OMFS is different and the dynamics of the job are different. But my question is that if the goal to be in a position where one could operate on a patient in a surgical capacity (OR, general anesthesia, paged by the ED, the whole sha-bang) should one look to go to medical school directly instead of going into dental school with the hopes of matching into OMFS?
 
Thanks for doing this.

What about the financial aspect? How are you paying for it? More loans? I'm assuming you won't be salaried until you get your MD?
 
i was talking about being a surgeon which could include anything between gen surg to ophthalmology (OS included). Clearly the path to OMFS is different and the dynamics of the job are different. But my question is that if the goal to be in a position where one could operate on a patient in a surgical capacity (OR, general anesthesia, paged by the ED, the whole sha-bang) should one look to go to medical school directly instead of going into dental school with the hopes of matching into OMFS?

If your only goal is to do surgery on people, then why would you bother with dentistry? You should go to dental school if you want to be a dentist. If your primary interest is in doing invasive surgery, dentistry doesn't sound like the right place for you to be.
 
So Im assuming youre doing a 6 year program?
Also was wondering where you did d-school and where youre doing your speciality
Were your undergrad marks looked at?
What steps should you take while in dental school to best set you up to apply to an omfs program?
 
What was the draw of OMFS to you, as a predent, vs surgical fields in medicine or podiatry?
 
So Im assuming youre doing a 6 year program?
Also was wondering where you did d-school and where youre doing your speciality
Were your undergrad marks looked at?
What steps should you take while in dental school to best set you up to apply to an omfs program?

Yes, I'm doing a 6 year program. I went to dental school at UoP and I'm doing my residency at Parkland Memorial/UT Southwestern.

Whether or not your undergrad grades are considered is up to the individual program. I'm assuming yes at most 6 year programs (since they ask for them).

The steps you need to take in dental school are the same ones you need to take when you're applying for, well, anything. Good grades, good test scores, participation in extracurriculars and building relationships with faculty to obtain good LORs. The only thing that's different for OMFS is you need to involve yourself in some externships at some point during dental school.
 
What was the draw of OMFS to you, as a predent, vs surgical fields in medicine or podiatry?

I never seriously considered medicine or podiatry because I've pretty much always been interested in dentistry. It's tempting for a lot of people (even OMFS) to forget that an OMFS is a dentist first and foremost, and that's the best thing about the specialty.

As a dentist, you escape most of the stressors and problems with medicine (malpractice, insurance, reimbursement, coding, competition from mid-levels). You can chose to have a 100% outpatient private practice or a 100% inpatient OR based surgical practice or anything in between with relative ease. As an OMFS you have the ability to do outpatient anesthesia yourself, which is a huge limitation and incredibly rare in other surgical specialties.

Also, you have to consider your fallback. As a pre-dent (or pre-med) you're very used to being very near the top of your class in education ability. When you move on to professional school, you've just stepped up your competition level a great deal. You're now very likely to be average among your peers. Personally, if I had to fallback on something other than OMFS, I would much rather it be general dentistry or one of the less competitive dental specialties than primary care medicine.
 
What was the best part of your internship?
 
Hey dude, is it easier to get into OMSF from certain schools?
 
What was the best part of your internship?

I don't know if you mean a 1 year internship before matching to OMFS or the first year of OMFS residency.

If you mean the latter, my program only does 6 weeks of internship then goes into med school full-time as a 2nd year med student, so the best part was that it was short.

If you mean the former, I didn't do one.
 
First of all, thanks for offering your time and insight, armorshell.

I'm currently going through the interview process for dental school and as such, have been weighing the pros/cons of each school (in anticipation/hopes of actually having a choice of a couple schools once December 1st comes around). My question is, how did your future hopes of specializing in OMFS affect your choice of dental school? Were there certain aspects of the school that you focused on (ie. schools that themselves have an OMFS residency program, etc)? Also, how do dental students fit in externships if they attend a school that is year-round? Lastly, when you were going through the matching process, did you only apply to the 6 year programs? What are some of the key differences between the 4yr and 6yr residencies (other than the obvious differences such as the M.D. for the 6-year)?

Thanks again, hope we're giving you the "break" that you were hoping for when you started this thread!
 
For the program your at:

What is the typical schedule like for 5th and 6th year residents? They don't take as much call?

What is the schedule like over the christmas holiday, you come back on service during med school breaks, right?

Thanks!!
 
What makes Parkland so competitive?

Have you noticed a difference in the level of preparation of your co-residents by their respective dental schools?
 
I'm currently going through the interview process for dental school and as such, have been weighing the pros/cons of each school (in anticipation/hopes of actually having a choice of a couple schools once December 1st comes around). My question is, how did your future hopes of specializing in OMFS affect your choice of dental school? Were there certain aspects of the school that you focused on (ie. schools that themselves have an OMFS residency program, etc)?

Not particularly. I really feel like you can specialize from any school but there were a few things that guided my decision from a performance standpoint. Meaning, not specifically aimed at making it easier for me to specialize but to create an environment here I would excel.

For example, I didn't want a P/F curriculum. I was looking for a school that was fast paced and challenging. I wanted a school that had an active social component and a good area to live/work/play in. Lastly, I was looking for a school that had a strong clinical focus. Also, cheap would have been nice.

These are just me though and what's best for anyone else may be different. For example, for many people "prestige" is a very important idea, for some staying close to family or an attraction to a particular geographic area. All of these are valid reasons in my book.

Sadly, there's no real "easy answer" to get you into a specialty. Some people like to think certain school "make it happen for you" but I feel the only arguments they can muster are teleological at best.


Also, how do dental students fit in externships if they attend a school that is year-round?

Year round is generally a misnomer. My school was "year round" but we had a 4 week break during summer and 2 weeks during winter that were perfect for externing. Other schools are likely the same.


What are some of the key differences between the 4yr and 6yr residencies (other than the obvious differences such as the M.D. for the 6-year)?

I'd love to cover this but it's more or less outside the scope of this thread. It's been extensively argued about on these forums so I'd recommend a search of the residency forum. In a nutshell, it comes down to more personal choices, one is not strictly better than the other. I applied to both however.
 
For the program your at:

What is the typical schedule like for 5th and 6th year residents? They don't take as much call?

As a 5th year you have 6-7 primary calls per month, as a chief you're 2nd call every day but get called in rarely, and usually then you're going to the OR.


What is the schedule like over the christmas holiday, you come back on service during med school breaks, right?

Thanks!!

Not at Parkland, but there are many programs that do it that way. My schedule involves getting fondled by the TSA on the way to the Pacific Northwest for a few weeks.
 
What makes Parkland so competitive?

Parkland is unique in that it has a very large full time faculty and a multiple-site structure. We have a great combination of experienced, well published faculty and young up-and-coming faculty. We operate out of 6 hospitals, 3 of which are level 1 trauma centers. The scope of the program is incredibly broad and well suited for either academics or private practice.

The medical school is one of the top biomedical science institutions in the world and is highly ranked, whatever that's worth, and also very inexpensive. We have access to several excellent research opportunities and a great amount of faculty support for scholarly work.

Parkland's OMFS program is also storied, with literally dozens of OMFS program directors and chairs, past and present, who trained here. One of the modern "fathers" or oral surgery, R.V. Walker is still active with the program, and during his reign Parkland attained (and has since maintained) it's reputation as an OMFS mecca.

So there's a few reasons. I could come up with more if you need.


Have you noticed a difference in the level of preparation of your co-residents by their respective dental schools?

First of all, my coresidents are the creme de la creme, another benefit of being at Parkland, knowing that you're working with the best. Anyway, I haven't noticed much of a difference at all other than very minor differences in things like terminology or certain emphases: for example, my DS emphasized radiographic oral path while someone else's emphasized clinical oral path.

Even if there was a gross difference in clinical skills between us, I wouldn't attribute it to the education first, there's a lot of personal variation that I feel would be a lot more likely to account for it. Basically, there are crappy dentists who graduate from every school.
 
This is more of a question about NBDE/NBME/Board tests (and I know they're changing), but in your experience, can stupid people score 95+ on Part I if they work hard enough? Or are scores high enough to match into an OMFS program simply not attainable for certain people?
 
JB, I think stupid people like you can achieve anything- remember Reading Rainbow? However, "stupider" people like myself cannot 🙁

Dr. Armor,

I would like to add to JB's question - how long did it take you to prepare for the NBDE? How long did it take you to prep for you 25AA DAT score? I really hope you don't say 2 weeks.
 
This is more of a question about NBDE/NBME/Board tests (and I know they're changing), but in your experience, can stupid people score 95+ on Part I if they work hard enough? Or are scores high enough to match into an OMFS program simply not attainable for certain people?

That's almost a philosophical question, isn't it? I believe with preparation anyone can get a score god enough to get in, I don't know about 95+ level though. My guess is probably.
 
do you feel as though you have a leg up in medical school because you may have already covered some of the material?
 
do you feel as though you have a leg up in medical school because you may have already covered some of the material?

It's like going into dental school having taken Anatomy and Physiology. Yeah, you've got a good idea of what's going on but you took it 3 years ago so you're probably still going to have to study to get a decent grade.
 
It's like going into dental school having taken Anatomy and Physiology. Yeah, you've got a good idea of what's going on but you took it 3 years ago so you're probably still going to have to study to get a decent grade.

So you don't place out of those courses?

BTW, thanks for doing this.
 
I hear some 6 year programs have an undergrad gpa cutoff. How high is this cutoff?
 
armorshell, here is a list of ALL the omfs programs in the US of A.

http://www.aaoms.org/docs/residency/program_list.pdf


According to this first page (red arrow), there are 45 "Hospital based programs"... what does this exactly mean? Cause many of them are actually 6-year programs with the MD, does this mean you spend the entire 6 years in a hospital setting where you also learning your basic medicine for USMLE 1,2, and 3? Or are these hospital based programs associated with some local MD schools?
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