asking to shadow

[mawgs]

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I'm a second semester senior and just decided that vet school is something I actually want to pursue. I have a few shadowing hours from high school, but no major vet experience since then. I'm trying to find a vet to shadow where I go to school. Since I don't have pets and don't know anyone with pets at school, it will be completely cold calling. What's the best way to phrase asking? I'm trying to send a few emails before I go back to school in a few weeks.

 

[lilylilac]

I'm a second semester senior and just decided that vet school is something I actually want to pursue. I have a few shadowing hours from high school, but no major vet experience since then. I'm trying to find a vet to shadow where I go to school. Since I don't have pets and don't know anyone with pets at school, it will be completely cold calling. What's the best way to phrase asking? I'm trying to send a few emails before I go back to school in a few weeks.

I wrote a letter describing myself, my interest in the veterinary profession, availability, and asking if they would take me on as a shadow (with me understanding that I would have no to limited actual handling of animals). Then I physically went in to the clinics with the letter and my resume, dressed in professional clothing. I asked to talk to the vet, but if they weren't available, I just left my information. I think it helps much more to go into the clinics in person, kind of shows up front that you're committed.

 

[stealthoscope]

I wrote a letter describing myself, my interest in the veterinary profession, availability, and asking if they would take me on as a shadow (with me understanding that I would have no to limited actual handling of animals). Then I physically went in to the clinics with the letter and my resume, dressed in professional clothing. I asked to talk to the vet, but if they weren't available, I just left my information. I think it helps much more to go into the clinics in person, kind of shows up front that you're committed.

OP, I would definitely write a letter with what lilylilac mentioned (or an email).

Also think about whether you want to start out shadowing or try to volunteer - it may seem like shadowing is a better idea because it is "hands-off" and thus seems like something you should do before you try to volunteer. However, I could see some vets being unwilling to let you shadow if you have little experience in the field - they may feel you wouldn't gain that much out of shadowing if you don't have a certain level of understanding of terms used, drug names, or whatever; or they may simply not want to have to answer lots of elementary questions which you could learn in a volunteer environment from the techs / other student volunteers. Volunteering doesn't have to (and usually will not, at least at first) involve animal contact, but just by being around the hospital you'll begin to get a sense of how things work, which may actually be a bit more valuable to begin with than shadowing the vet.

Personally, I would not advise someone to go into the clinic in person looking to speak to the vet, without setting up an interview ahead of time, because while some might view it as dedication, it also puts the vet on the spot, and you can be sure that if you didn't call ahead, the vet is busy, not expecting you, and probably doesn't want to talk to you. And feeling irritated or pressured is probably not the way you want them to go in to an "interview" type situation feeling. I think that a letter or email would be sufficient, or a letter / email asking to set up a time for a phone call or for an interview. You could alternatively just cold-call the place and ask to speak to the practice manager, and see what their policy even is on shadowing, before you try to get in touch with the vet themselves.

I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here in mentioning some of the difficulties, but that being said, depending on where you live, how big the clinic is, and just who the vet is, you may be able to show up and talk to the vet and have them be more than happy to have you shadow, and hopefully that's what happens! But be prepared if it isn't.

I'm also curious how you've decided that you want to go to vet school if you haven't had experience with pets or volunteering or very much with shadowing?

 

[CatLover91]

Some clinics post their volunteering/ shadowing opportunities and policies on their websites, so check those before you call. A lot of people I know go by various clinics in person, dressed professionally and drop off a resume. You can then call back at a later date to see if they have considered letting you shadow.

 

[Despoina]

In NYC, it was hard to find some places willing to take me as a volunteer or even shadowing because I was seen as a liability with no prior experience. Shelters such as ASPCA took me in for volunteer and to get some training on how to handle dogs and cats so I would say that you should also try shelters to get some animal experience! Most places are looking for volunteers and that can be your stepping stone if you can't find any place that may take you.

 

[LetItSnow]

I dunno, maybe (probably) the other vets would disagree with me, but .... if someone asks me to shadow what I appreciate is this:

o Brevity: I don't want a 2-page letter with a 2-page resume with three letters of reference with .... Keep it simple. It's not a job, it's shadowing.
o The following info, clearly articulated: WHAT you want, WHY you are interested, WHEN you want to come/start/whatever, and something that gives me the impression you won't wreck my day.
o Flexibility: You need to roll with the punches. I may not invite you in with every client. I may call/email you and say "tomorrow isn't going to work". I may say "can you scrub in on this surgery and be an extra set of hands" or I may say "I can't have you scrub in on this procedure, sorry." If that's going to bother you, shadow elsewhere. The message here is that my patients/clients trump your shadowing and I have to consider them first, second, and third before you. It's just life. I would love to help you get experience/hours, but you aren't the focus of my day.

All the little stuff that people worry about (should I wear scrubs? should I ask questions? how often should I come?) .... none of that crap matters to me.

Things that wreck my day:
1. Shadowers who touch animals or equipment they shouldn't. I have had shadowers adjust anesthesia equipment on their own initiative. Right in front of my ECC-cert'd techs. Don't pull that crap. Even if you are positive you know what you're doing and have 750354 years of experience as a tech. If you think you see a problem, say something, but don't touch something. *I* don't even touch equipment because my techs are too smart to let me.
2. Shadows who don't know when to shut up. I love questions, and I love talking cases with shadowers. But if an animal is trying to die and we are urgently working on saving it and I've got techs doing CPR while I'm trying to shove a suction tube down the ET tube to get blood out of the lungs and my CSR is trying to get the owner on the phone to tell them what is happening ......... really craptastic time to say "So, Dr. LIS, why are you shoving that tube down the ET tube?" Don't worry, we can debrief later.
3. Shadows who give medical advice to my clients. Just don't. If you're a 4th-yr student, I'm open to having you talk to the client instead of me. But only after we chat first. Don't interrupt me or contradict me to the client. It's not an ego thing on my part, it's about delivering a consistent, less-confusing message to the client about their animal. I've had one shadower - a first year vet student - argue with me in front of the client about my diagnostic recommendations. Yeah, you don't get invited back. I am not saying my recommendations are always/necessarily the best - I'm just a dumb-ass n00b. But don't undermine me to the client because in the end that hurts the patient.

So if you can make some comments in your shadow request that give me the impression you are level-headed, mature, will be able to know when to ask questions and when to shut up, and will know not to mess with things you shouldn't ... I'm probably going to be happy to let you come shadow. It's pretty simple.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Unless it's someone I know and can vouch for, me the associate vet is not the person you need to talk to about shadowing. I'll just be passing you along to the practice manager either way. Just like someone wanting to be a tech or kennel worker has no business talking to me. I don't make those decisions. No lengthy letter or chats in person about your passion about vet med will change that. Barking up the wrong tree. So please don't insist on talking to the vet to "get a better chance," if they say no. With some vets and especially practice owners, that approach works well. For others it's just really annoying when we keep getting paged about some kid who wants to talk about getting experience. Once I actually went up to talk, and the prevet started interviewing ME about what my practice had to offer her, and why shadowing with me might be better than elsewhere!

If it's someone I personally know, I'll go and talk to the practice manager and get the okay myself and arrange it, but not for a random person.

Shadows I prefer are the ones that are okay to roll with the punches and is the least needy. The twitchy ones that ask a million questions ahead of time about all the rules and what to wear and what they can and can't do... I mean, there's nothing wrong with that... but it's annoying when I have a 14-16 hr day to begin with where I hardly ever get a lunch break, and I have a note that I have to call someone to go over all of that because they wanted to talk to the vet, and not the tech or receptionist. Just come prepared for whatever (I don't care scrubs or business casual, as long as it's not unprofessional), and await your instructions until you get here. You can just experience what you're going to experience first hand, you don't need to ask me ahead of time what my day is like and what you'll be doing. I'm never going to get mad at you for knowing something. I'm never going to get mad at you that you didn't come with x,y,z.

Please do not touch anything unless I say you can. Omg a shadower that gets bit or scratch is like the woooorst. That puts me in a horrible position. The client gets upset that their pet is now under quarantine. I need to fill out a bite report, and though no one at my practice will come after me about it, technically it was my fault it happened under my watch. I've had it happen once, and it sucked but whatever. I moved on, and wasn't even all that mad or anything. But what annoyed me was when the shadower kept apologizing all day to everyone about it. And kept asking what she could have done differently. And our answer - don't touch the animals - wasn't good enough.

Please don't talk to clients. A short exchange of pleasantries are totally fine. Or little things like "he's being such a good boy" are fine. But don't give medical, behavioral, pet care advice. Please don't talk about your own pets (honestly I don't want to hear about them either...)

Lastly, if I have you go and tag along with my techs? Please don't be offended. You're more than welcome to watch me write my charts or call owners, but please don't assume quiet time = you ask me 100 questions time. On a busy day, it takes me 2-3 hrs to write my records and call owners. If you jeopardize that time by asking me about how happy I am with my choice to become a vet, or questions about what disease process was affecting every appointment you saw, and why didn't i do it like your own vet, etc... I'll usually entertain some conversation. But after half an hour and it doesn't stop even though I'm flipping through charts and I'm reaching for the phone, it gets really old. I'm more than happy to sit around and talk for however long you want AFTER I'm done with my day at like 9 or 10pm ... But no one takes me up on that. They tend to leave at like 6pm because they have to study or something. They want their questions answered and quality vet bonding time before they need to leave.

I get it, I was a bushy tailed pre-vet at one point in time desperate to get experience. So I try my best to give people the best experience I can. And some shadowers are great. They are passionate, they're pleasant to be around, humble, and ask good questions at the appropriate times. They can follow me anytime. But I can see why some vets I know really don't want to deal with it at all. I've run into multiple prevets who walk around like their experience is the most important, and everyone else should accommodate that. And they get offended if that's not how they're perceived. And the whole day ends up with us all dealing with this person who is in the way that we can't trust to not do something inappropriate.

 

[DVMDream]

OP, I would definitely write a letter with what lilylilac mentioned (or an email).

Also think about whether you want to start out shadowing or try to volunteer - it may seem like shadowing is a better idea because it is "hands-off" and thus seems like something you should do before you try to volunteer. However, I could see some vets being unwilling to let you shadow if you have little experience in the field - they may feel you wouldn't gain that much out of shadowing if you don't have a certain level of understanding of terms used, drug names, or whatever; or they may simply not want to have to answer lots of elementary questions which you could learn in a volunteer environment from the techs / other student volunteers. Volunteering doesn't have to (and usually will not, at least at first) involve animal contact, but just by being around the hospital you'll begin to get a sense of how things work, which may actually be a bit more valuable to begin with than shadowing the vet.

Personally, I would not advise someone to go into the clinic in person looking to speak to the vet, without setting up an interview ahead of time, because while some might view it as dedication, it also puts the vet on the spot, and you can be sure that if you didn't call ahead, the vet is busy, not expecting you, and probably doesn't want to talk to you. And feeling irritated or pressured is probably not the way you want them to go in to an "interview" type situation feeling. I think that a letter or email would be sufficient, or a letter / email asking to set up a time for a phone call or for an interview. You could alternatively just cold-call the place and ask to speak to the practice manager, and see what their policy even is on shadowing, before you try to get in touch with the vet themselves.

I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here in mentioning some of the difficulties, but that being said, depending on where you live, how big the clinic is, and just who the vet is, you may be able to show up and talk to the vet and have them be more than happy to have you shadow, and hopefully that's what happens! But be prepared if it isn't.

I'm also curious how you've decided that you want to go to vet school if you haven't had experience with pets or volunteering or very much with shadowing?

I disagree with the bolded. Volunteering means that you have some expectation of being able to "do" things, which depending upon the clinic, may or may not be allowed. Shadowing indicates that you want to do exactly that... shadow. Shadowing is about learning, not already knowing things. The whole point behind shadowing is to get a realistic view of what the career you are shadowing involves. I wouldn't expect a shadow to know anything especially about drug names, etc. I wouldn't expect a volunteer to know those things either, to be honest. Many clinics won't allow volunteers due to liability, labor laws, laws about volunteering, etc, etc. So shadowing really is the better term to use, then if the clinic allows it to evolve into more of a volunteer position or allows you to do more hands on as they get to know you, then great.

I also think there is something to be said about a person who takes the initiative to show up in person. You can have the brief letter with you or that resume or whatever. If the vet is available, great, you are there to chat. If not, you have shown the front office staff a lot of initiative by showing up, being polite, being respectful, dressing well, and explaining yourself. You show that you can communicate face to face. I like seeing that someone isn't afraid of a face to face communication, to me, it is the most professional form of communication IF you are able to do it. If you are unable to show up in person, then an email or letter would be good alternatives. Having said that, I wouldn't walk in and expect to be able to see the vet. Walk in, explain to the front desk staff why you are there, why you are interested in shadowing and then ask if the vet happens to be available. If they say no, then ask if you can leave them your letter/resume to give to the vet and follow up a few days to a week later with a phone call. I wouldn't feel at all put on the spot as the vet. If I am busy, I am busy. If the individual can't understand that, then they aren't a good fit for shadowing. If I am not busy, then I can talk. Simple as that. Obviously this might vary depending upon the individual, but I have always been more of a face to face type of communicator. Or a phone call communicator.

 

[LetItSnow]

Once I actually went up to talk, and the prevet started interviewing ME about what my practice had to offer her, and why shadowing with me might be better than elsewhere!

Hahahahahahahahahahaa. You're a better person than me. I'd say "nothing," roll my eyes, and walk away.

 

[DVMDream]

Unless it's someone I know and can vouch for, me the associate vet is not the person you need to talk to about shadowing. I'll just be passing you along to the practice manager either way. Just like someone wanting to be a tech or kennel worker has no business talking to me. I don't make those decisions. No lengthy letter or chats in person about your passion about vet med will change that. Barking up the wrong tree. So please don't insist on talking to the vet to "get a better chance," if they say no. With some vets and especially practice owners, that approach works well. For others it's just really annoying when we keep getting paged about some kid who wants to talk about getting experience. Once I actually went up to talk, and the prevet started interviewing ME about what my practice had to offer her, and why shadowing with me might be better than elsewhere!

.

And don't forget this as well. You may walk into the clinic that is not busy or seems to be not busy and the vet will say "no, I can't talk with them" because they are an associate. It isn't their place to decide if someone can shadow. If the practice owner isn't there, then it doesn't matter how many other vets are there, it won't do you any good to talk with them. So while many would be fine taking your information and pass it on, there is no need for direct conversation with the associate because it isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[DVMDream]

And if you do end up shadowing, whatever you do... Do NOT have your cell phone attached to you. I mean, if you have it with you, fine, but it had better be on silent. And do NOT be staring at your phone playing games on it. Yes, I have seen people who are shadowing do this. Do NOT be this person.

Also, if you are told something like, "please step away from the sterile instruments table" don't question it or tell us that you aren't touching anything. Step the **** away. And do not make us repeat ourselves about it. Yes, this was the same person as above.

And if we offer to show you something. Say, for example, radiographs. And your response is "oh I have already seen radiographs" and then you keep playing your game on your phone. Yeah, that is going to look bad. Very bad. If we are offering to show you something, the answer had better be yes. The only reason to be saying no is if you are feeling faint/dizzy/sick... in which case, tell us. Please tell us. It happens to all of us. I had to scrub out of a few orthopedic cases during this final year of vet school because of dizzy/faint feelings. We don't judge. We just don't want you face planting into a hard floor and needing an ambulance ride to get a CT scan of your head.

 

[hazelmoo]

I disagree with the bolded. Volunteering means that you have some expectation of being able to "do" things, which depending upon the clinic, may or may not be allowed. Shadowing indicates that you want to do exactly that... shadow. Shadowing is about learning, not already knowing things. The whole point behind shadowing is to get a realistic view of what the career you are shadowing involves. I wouldn't expect a shadow to know anything especially about drug names, etc. I wouldn't expect a volunteer to know those things either, to be honest. Many clinics won't allow volunteers due to liability, labor laws, laws about volunteering, etc, etc. So shadowing really is the better term to use

This could go for shadowing also. I've had 2 emergency clinics tell me that they don't allow shadowers (unless already in veterinary school) due to liability 🙁

OP, I agree with what the majority of people have said on here, and I think the best and safest thing you can do is call and ask to speak to the practice manager. They're normally the ones in charge of setting up any sort of volunteer/shadowing things. Showing up in person is a gamble in my opinion. It could go either way!

 

[DVMDream]

This could go for shadowing also. I've had 2 emergency clinics tell me that they don't allow shadowers (unless already in veterinary school) due to liability 🙁

OP, I agree with what the majority of people have said on here, and I think the best and safest thing you can do is call and ask to speak to the practice manager. They're normally the ones in charge of setting up any sort of volunteer/shadowing things. Showing up in person is a gamble in my opinion. It could go either way!

Yup, definitely can happen for shadowing too depending upon the rules of each particular clinic. I would imagine especially at an emergency clinic where things often get very busy and having someone "in the way" (even if you aren't physically in the way) can have an impact on clinic operations.

However, shadowing implies a much less "hands on" experience compared to "volunteering". Which is why we have repeatedly suggested to pre-vets on here to ask to shadow over volunteer. As there are places that don't allow volunteers but do allow shadows.

Also, it doesn't matter if you call or go into the clinic... they are both gambles. Either way the practice owner/vet/practice manager may or may not be available and you will be leaving a message with the front desk receptionists. However at least by physically going in, you can hand over a letter/resume that they then have to physically do something with. Compared to calling in which they have to write down a note and may or may not remember to get it to the manager/vet/owner.

 

[stealthoscope]

I disagree with the bolded. Volunteering means that you have some expectation of being able to "do" things, which depending upon the clinic, may or may not be allowed. Shadowing indicates that you want to do exactly that... shadow. Shadowing is about learning, not already knowing things. The whole point behind shadowing is to get a realistic view of what the career you are shadowing involves. I wouldn't expect a shadow to know anything especially about drug names, etc. I wouldn't expect a volunteer to know those things either, to be honest. Many clinics won't allow volunteers due to liability, labor laws, laws about volunteering, etc, etc. So shadowing really is the better term to use, then if the clinic allows it to evolve into more of a volunteer position or allows you to do more hands on as they get to know you, then great.

Thanks for pointing that out; volunteering where I volunteered doesn't reflect what most practices expect.

For me, volunteering in the clinic meant sweeping the floors, unpacking shipping boxes, starting the laundry, spraying down the kennels... I never touched animals as a volunteer because it would have been a liability. I didn't get to talk to the vets much at first, although I got to watch surgeries from behind the glass, but the techs took time to explain to me what they were doing, simple things like "we give vaccines in different legs according to this chart" and "if you look into the microscope you can see some parasite ova". I had no idea about any of this and I enjoyed this as an introduction that let me sort of help out in the background while staying out of the way. Other practices may view volunteering as more hands-on with the animals; I've never had that experience.

At the same clinic, when I shadowed during undergrad after having volunteered in high school, as well as at a specialty clinic that I shadowed at, I would go into most exams and just listen and observe. At the specialty clinic, the residents would quiz me whenever there was a bit of downtime (studying for boards was on the brain for everyone I suppose) or the vet would ask me things like "why do you think Palladia works on mast cell tumors" or "do you know the difference between angiogenesis and neovascularization?" Sometimes I was able to answer things and most of the time I didn't know, and they'd tell me to look it up and tell them the next day. I enjoyed being able to have conversations about topics I'd studied before, though, and I felt more at ease. This may of course be all because they KNEW what my background had been and they wouldn't put someone on the spot otherwise. I'm sure neither clinic expected shadowing students to know drug names or procedures or anatomy or anything, but I found it helpful when shadowing to understand some of what the doctor was saying, or why that needle was going where, or that I should stand back before these anal glands get expressed, or whatever.

I'm not at all trying to bash shadowing as a learning opportunity, but the first clinic that I was at definitely recommended interested students to volunteer first, and I do think it was a good thing for me personally.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I'm not at all trying to bash shadowing as a learning opportunity, but the first clinic that I was at definitely recommended interested students to volunteer first, and I do think it was a good thing for me personally.

But the IRS and the Dept of Labor would say that's illegal. You can't have nonpaid people do scut work for you that you would otherwise have paid personnel do, unless you are a registered nonprofit.

 

[DVMDream]

Thanks for pointing that out; volunteering where I volunteered doesn't reflect what most practices expect.

For me, volunteering in the clinic meant sweeping the floors, unpacking shipping boxes, starting the laundry, spraying down the kennels... I never touched animals as a volunteer because it would have been a liability. I didn't get to talk to the vets much at first, although I got to watch surgeries from behind the glass, but the techs took time to explain to me what they were doing, simple things like "we give vaccines in different legs according to this chart" and "if you look into the microscope you can see some parasite ova". I had no idea about any of this and I enjoyed this as an introduction that let me sort of help out in the background while staying out of the way. Other practices may view volunteering as more hands-on with the animals; I've never had that experience.

And this is typical for shadowing. Minus all the cleaning and crap. You should just get to follow the vet or techs around to see what is happening without having to do any work. I am not saying they won't ever ask you questions, but they don't expect you to know the answer. It isn't like me now where they gave me the wide eyes or tell me "you should know this" if it is something I should clearly know by now. Maybe they'll ask you about vaccines or explain vaccines to you then ask you the next time you are there what you remember about vaccinations but vets aren't going to be asking a shadow on day 1 why they think x, y, z drug works for a, b, c disease.

At the same clinic, when I shadowed during undergrad after having volunteered in high school, as well as at a specialty clinic that I shadowed at, I would go into most exams and just listen and observe. At the specialty clinic, the residents would quiz me whenever there was a bit of downtime (studying for boards was on the brain for everyone I suppose) or the vet would ask me things like "why do you think Palladia works on mast cell tumors" or "do you know the difference between angiogenesis and neovascularization?" Sometimes I was able to answer things and most of the time I didn't know, and they'd tell me to look it up and tell them the next day. I enjoyed being able to have conversations about topics I'd studied before, though, and I felt more at ease. This may of course be all because they KNEW what my background had been and they wouldn't put someone on the spot otherwise. I'm sure neither clinic expected shadowing students to know drug names or procedures or anatomy or anything, but I found it helpful when shadowing to understand some of what the doctor was saying, or why that needle was going where, or that I should stand back before these anal glands get expressed, or whatever.

I'm not at all trying to bash shadowing as a learning opportunity, but the first clinic that I was at definitely recommended interested students to volunteer first, and I do think it was a good thing for me personally.

I think the reason you have a difference of opinion is because you are comparing volunteering as a high school student to shadowing a specialty clinic with residents who are used to quizzing/teaching/guiding younger residents and/or students. That is part of their job. They are just on autopilot and therefore asking questions that you wouldn't know and going with the usual "look it up and tell me later" when you don't know. Most vets aren't going to quiz the crap out of an undergrad student or ask them about palladia and how it works. Nor are they going to make them look things up. It is kind of comparing apples to oranges... volunteering at a GP practice to shadowing a bunch of residents.

Most of the shadows I have seen are high school students getting work experience for a high school course. They aren't expected to know anything. Anyone who hasn't really spent time in a vet clinic won't know much. The purpose behind shadowing is not to be quizzed about things, but to see what the job entails and if you are still interested in a career in veterinary medicine.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

And if you do end up shadowing, whatever you do... Do NOT have your cell phone attached to you. I mean, if you have it with you, fine, but it had better be on silent. And do NOT be staring at your phone playing games on it. Yes, I have seen people who are shadowing do this. Do NOT be this person.

Also, if you are told something like, "please step away from the sterile instruments table" don't question it or tell us that you aren't touching anything. Step the **** away. And do not make us repeat ourselves about it. Yes, this was the same person as above.

And if we offer to show you something. Say, for example, radiographs. And your response is "oh I have already seen radiographs" and then you keep playing your game on your phone. Yeah, that is going to look bad. Very bad. If we are offering to show you something, the answer had better be yes. The only reason to be saying no is if you are feeling faint/dizzy/sick... in which case, tell us. Please tell us. It happens to all of us. I had to scrub out of a few orthopedic cases during this final year of vet school because of dizzy/faint feelings. We don't judge. We just don't want you face planting into a hard floor and needing an ambulance ride to get a CT scan of your head.

This. If I had a shadow who sat around playing on their phone, I would toss them out without a second thought. It's rude. Your phone can stay in your bag unless you are expecting a call.

 

[dyachei]

I dunno, maybe (probably) the other vets would disagree with me, but .... if someone asks me to shadow what I appreciate is this:

o Brevity: I don't want a 2-page letter with a 2-page resume with three letters of reference with .... Keep it simple. It's not a job, it's shadowing.
o The following info, clearly articulated: WHAT you want, WHY you are interested, WHEN you want to come/start/whatever, and something that gives me the impression you won't wreck my day.
o Flexibility: You need to roll with the punches. I may not invite you in with every client. I may call/email you and say "tomorrow isn't going to work". I may say "can you scrub in on this surgery and be an extra set of hands" or I may say "I can't have you scrub in on this procedure, sorry." If that's going to bother you, shadow elsewhere. The message here is that my patients/clients trump your shadowing and I have to consider them first, second, and third before you. It's just life. I would love to help you get experience/hours, but you aren't the focus of my day.

All the little stuff that people worry about (should I wear scrubs? should I ask questions? how often should I come?) .... none of that crap matters to me.

Things that wreck my day:
1. Shadowers who touch animals or equipment they shouldn't. I have had shadowers adjust anesthesia equipment on their own initiative. Right in front of my ECC-cert'd techs. Don't pull that crap. Even if you are positive you know what you're doing and have 750354 years of experience as a tech. If you think you see a problem, say something, but don't touch something. *I* don't even touch equipment because my techs are too smart to let me.
2. Shadows who don't know when to shut up. I love questions, and I love talking cases with shadowers. But if an animal is trying to die and we are urgently working on saving it and I've got techs doing CPR while I'm trying to shove a suction tube down the ET tube to get blood out of the lungs and my CSR is trying to get the owner on the phone to tell them what is happening ......... really craptastic time to say "So, Dr. LIS, why are you shoving that tube down the ET tube?" Don't worry, we can debrief later.
3. Shadows who give medical advice to my clients. Just don't. If you're a 4th-yr student, I'm open to having you talk to the client instead of me. But only after we chat first. Don't interrupt me or contradict me to the client. It's not an ego thing on my part, it's about delivering a consistent, less-confusing message to the client about their animal. I've had one shadower - a first year vet student - argue with me in front of the client about my diagnostic recommendations. Yeah, you don't get invited back. I am not saying my recommendations are always/necessarily the best - I'm just a dumb-ass n00b. But don't undermine me to the client because in the end that hurts the patient.

So if you can make some comments in your shadow request that give me the impression you are level-headed, mature, will be able to know when to ask questions and when to shut up, and will know not to mess with things you shouldn't ... I'm probably going to be happy to let you come shadow. It's pretty simple.

Man, those vet students are the worst...

I let people shadow and try to do my best to teach.

 

[mawgs]

I'm also curious how you've decided that you want to go to vet school if you haven't had experience with pets or volunteering or very much with shadowing?

I have had pets my entire life (I just can't have them at school with me, as my undegrad requires you to live on campus all 4 years). I volunteer in the spay neuter clinic at a local animal shelter. In high school, I had a herd of beef cattle and some sheep that I raised as 4-H projects, and I've worked on a farm every summer for the past 8 years. Through this, I've had quite a bit of experience with large animal veterinary work, and it was something I was definitely interested in pursuing. I was in an accident my first year of undergrad and got a bad head injury, and after that I got discouraged and believed that I would never regain the brain function to become a vet. Now, three years later, I finally feel as though vet school is a possibility again.

 

[battie]

And if you do end up shadowing, whatever you do... Do NOT have your cell phone attached to you. I mean, if you have it with you, fine, but it had better be on silent. And do NOT be staring at your phone playing games on it. Yes, I have seen people who are shadowing do this. Do NOT be this person

This also annoys the other people you're shadowing/volunteering with. I would leave my phone in my bag in the staff room or wherever. When you're trying to get stuff done and someone on the team is ditzing around on their phone, it takes even longer and, at the clinic I volunteered/shadowed at, you had to get the "to-do list" done before you could see the surgeries or something.

The only reason to be saying no is if you are feeling faint/dizzy/sick... in which case, tell us. Please tell us. It happens to all of us. I had to scrub out of a few orthopedic cases during this final year of vet school because of dizzy/faint feelings. We don't judge. We just don't want you face planting into a hard floor and needing an ambulance ride to get a CT scan of your head.

Please always let someone know if you're going to faint. I fainted on my very first day of shadowing and hit a counter and busted out two of my front teeth. My reason was for a medical condition that we didn't know about at the time, but I felt fuzzy one moment and woke up the next on the floor, looking at the tiny little shards of teeth. If you're going to faint, let someone know and find a way to get down safely before your body decides for you.

But the IRS and the Dept of Labor would say that's illegal. You can't have nonpaid people do scut work for you that you would otherwise have paid personnel do, unless you are a registered nonprofit.

I wish I had looked this up when I started volunteering with the worst clinic I experienced. In hindsight, she was definitely taking advantage of us. I bet she's still doing it now.