aspiring EM-DO

[DO_messenger]

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Hey guys, what is it like out there for us DO's ?? can we still moonlight if we want, are the hours about the same, salary?

do you see the field expanding?? i think that EM is like really cool for a DO... what do you think?? do DO's make better EM docs??

thanks for all the help!

 

[Sessamoid]

Your post lacks coherence. Is there something specific you wanted to ask?

 

[DO_messenger]

NEW COMMUNICATION STYLE TO ALLOW FOR THOSE WITH LIMITED COMPREHENSION ABILITIES TO UNDERSTAND MY OTHERWISE "INCOHERENT POST".

I. Salutations
A. "Hey guys"
II. Present DayComparison of DO versus MD in an ER setting - "what is it like out there for us DO's "
A. can we still moonlight if we want?
B. are the hours about the same?
C. are the salaries about the same?
III. Future outlook on DO versus ME in an ER setting
A. do you see the field expanding?
IV. DO versus MD philosophy in the ER
B. do you think that EM fits well with the DO philosophy?
C. do DO's make better EM doctors
V. Closing
A. thanks for all the help!

ORIGINAL MESSAGE>>

>>Hey guys, what is it like out there for us DO's ?? can we still moonlight if we want, are the hours about the same, salary?

do you see the field expanding?? i think that EM is like really cool for a DO... what do you think?? do DO's make better EM docs??

thanks for all the help!

 

[Sessamoid]

🙄

Clear writing not your forte? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trolling.

II. Present DayComparison of DO versus MD in an ER setting - "what is it like out there for us DO's "

What is "it" that you are asking about?

A. can we still moonlight if we want?

Not knowing what stage of your training you're in, I'm not sure what you mean by "moonlight."

B. are the hours about the same?

The hours in the private practice of emergency medicine are the same as they've always been. Flexible. Is there something specific you wanted to know about?

C. are the salaries about the same?

I presume you mean DO vs. MD, though your question didn't specifically ask it. The answer is "yes."

III. Future outlook on DO versus ME in an ER setting

A. do you see the field expanding?

You seem to be trying to make it out like this is some kind of MD vs. DO war in the marketplace. It's not. If you're qualified and likable, you'll get the job. If you can't do the job and/or piss off your colleagues, then you won't. Which degree you have doesn't matter.

IV. DO versus MD philosophy in the ER
B. do you think that EM fits well with the DO philosophy?

Can't say. Do you?

C. do DO's make better EM doctors

Again with the MD vs. DO thing. At least I presume you mean as compared to MD-degreed physicians. The answer is no, they don't make better EM doctors. They don't make worse ones either. It depends on what kind of person you are, not what kind of piece of paper you have on your wall.

A. thanks for all the help!

Don't mention it. If your post was intended as flame/troll, then count me a sucker for biting.

 

[DrQuinn]

tee-hee.

To answer your questions...

Yes... wait... I mean no... nononono, I mean there's no difference, I mean you can still get the job, yes, um, no did I mean yes?

Q, DO

 

[DO_messenger]

Clear writing not your forte? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trolling.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

II. Present DayComparison of DO versus MD in an ER setting - "what is it like out there for us DO's "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>>What is "it" that you are asking about?

I cannot believe that you guys are this dumb. the title of the block is COMPARISON OF DO VERSUS MD IN AN ER SETTING. so therefore "IT" is quite obviouslly assumed to be "COMPARISON OF DO VERSUS MD IN AN ER SETTING" ... Additionally, why do you have to be so cross here... i started out nice here and just asked a few simple questions. what i get in return is a bunch of smartass remarks from some simpleton that got mad at his english teacher for giving him an A instead of an A+++++... so now you are venting your rage on me. if you must be so mean, then do not even reply because your response is worthless to me.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A. can we still moonlight if we want?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>>Not knowing what stage of your training you're in, I'm not sure what you mean by "moonlight."

And you are DUMB. This post is in the Graduate Forum>Emergency Medicine and the topic is life in the ER for a DO vs an MD. If you cannot figure out what im talking about, then you do not need to be a doctor.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B. are the hours about the same?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>The hours in the private practice of emergency medicine are the same as they've always been. Flexible. Is there something specific you wanted to know about?

Again you're DUMB. THE POST IS DO VERSUS MD... would you like me to repeat that after every character typed just so you dont forget?? Ahh forget it, you probablly still would not COMPREHEND it.....


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. are the salaries about the same?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>I presume you mean DO vs. MD, though your question didn't specifically ask it. The answer is "yes."

OH MAN!!! i cannot believe you totally figured it out!!! DO vs MD!!!! WOW YOUR A FREAKIN GENIUS!!!!! but ur still dumb because you say i didnt specifically ask it. Do a quick search on this page for "DO vs MD" how many times does it come up?? do you still really want me to belive that i forgot to say DO vs MD??? you are DUMB!!!!!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
III. Future outlook on DO versus ME in an ER setting

A. do you see the field expanding?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>You seem to be trying to make it out like this is some kind of MD vs. DO war in the marketplace. It's not. If you're qualified and likable, you'll get the job. If you can't do the job and/or piss off your colleagues, then you won't. Which degree you have doesn't matter.

Was that so hard to say? I am just trying to see what everyone thinks out there, who is in the ER right now!!! i .. i just cannot believe what a huge hassel it was to get anything across....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IV. DO versus MD philosophy in the ER
B. do you think that EM fits well with the DO philosophy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>Can't say. Do you?

If you cannot say, you are either an MD with no understanding of a DO and/or you are not in the ER. Either case, you therefore have no right to even be replying in this thread in the manner you are doing, like you know anything.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. do DO's make better EM doctors
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>Again with the MD vs. DO thing. At least I presume you mean as compared to MD-degreed physicians. The answer is no, they don't make better EM doctors. They don't make worse ones either. It depends on what kind of person you are, not what kind of piece of paper you have on your wall.

See that wasnt soo hard to say was it?!?!?!?! I only ask because I am constantly seeing people talk about DO's as generalists and MD's as specialists with different opinions on EM... so i thought that maybe people with experience would have some first hand knowledge... I GUESS NOT!!!!



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A. thanks for all the help!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>>Don't mention it. If your post was intended as flame/troll, then count me a sucker for biting.

you didnt help, you made life worse. that "thanks" is not for you. and this post is NOT inteded as a flame/troll ... i seriously wanted to know what KNOWLEDGABLE residents thought about the 2 philosphies and learning in school. since there are two philosophies, this is a very valid question. I am just sorry that someone so obviously caught up in a huge fight over the do vs md debate would in an instant jump to conclusions.

Obviously this post is DO centric, i am a DO ms1, and am trying to learn more. If i wanted to flame i would have done things to incite anger. you are the only one who has done that so far.

 

[DO_messenger]

man... Quinn i like respected your posts until now... i just wanted some serious answers on what its like out there for DO's.

I asked an old family friend what he knew about DO's and he said he wasnt real sure but that that they had less schooling and didnt know as much as MD's...

i quickly pointed out his err, ... i just wanted to see what ALREADY newly practicing DO's and MD's thought about it all, how the general public community is acting now, how the medical community is acting, and how the laws are looking.

Im still hearing of programs that will NOT accept DO's for their residencies... if medical programs see MD's and DO's as equals, then they WOULD accept DO's but obviioulsy this is not the case. and the fact that im still running into people who think lowly of DO's is a real downer... Osteopathic Medicine has a long ways to go still it seems like....

 

[Scrubbs]

People, people... can't we all just get along????

 

[DO_messenger]

i wish... i thought as doctors we are supposed to help ppl... the dumb one up there cannot comprehend anything and quinn jumps in to join him with obviously no rational thought in her mind, judging from the babble she spewed...

 

[Sessamoid]

I cannot believe that you guys are this dumb. the title of the block is COMPARISON OF DO VERSUS MD IN AN ER SETTING.

Wow. Such hostility. Are you sure you're not going into surgery? 😉 The "title" of that block wasn't included in the original post, nor in the original title. How was I to know when you originally posted what you wanted to know? So I asked what you wanted to know. For that I get all sorts of unpleasant ad homs.

Additionally, why do you have to be so cross here...

I wasn't cross. I pointed out that your original request lacked specifics. You later gave them along with a heaping serving of rudeness. The way you originally phrased your question sounded like so many other flame-baiting MD vs. DO trolls. Perhaps you didn't mean them that way, but that's the way they sounded to me. And honestly, your behavior since then hasn't dissuaded me from the flame/troll opinion.

if you must be so mean, then do not even reply because your response is worthless to me.

Mean? Let me quote some of your post:

"some simpleton"
"And you are DUMB"
"If you cannot figure out what im talking about, then you do not need to be a doctor."
"Again you're DUMB. "
"but ur(sic) still dumb "

Do a quick search on this page for "DO vs MD" how many times does it come up??

Do a quick search of your original post and title for "DO vs. MD". Did you find anything?

Was that so hard to say? I am just trying to see what everyone thinks out there, who is in the ER right now!!!

No, it wasn't hard. I gave you my opinion. What you gave me was a lot of bile. I gotta hand it to Q, who summed it up much more succinctly than I did.

And just so you know where I'm coming from:

Greg Nee, M.D.
Diplomate of the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

Going to be looking for jobs in my part of the country some day? Emergency Medicine is a remarkably small community. It's best not to really piss off anyone.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
i wish... i thought as doctors we are supposed to help ppl... the dumb one up there cannot comprehend anything and quinn jumps in to join him with obviously no rational thought in her mind, judging from the babble she spewed...

That time of the month.

Q, DO

 

[Sessamoid]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
That time of the month.

Q, DO

Heh, yes, but for whom? 🙂

 

[Scrubbs]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
That time of the month.

Q, DO

What time is that Quinn?

 

[DO_messenger]

Greg Nee, M.D.
Diplomate of the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

Going to be looking for jobs in my part of the country some day? Emergency Medicine is a remarkably small community. It's best not to really piss off anyone.


oh cool.. this is the kinda stuff that get ppl like you fired

 

[Sessamoid]

Okay, it's raining like stink outside, and I gotta do something to amuse myself...

DO_messenger said on 4-10-2003 :

please reconsider snide remarks against your peers just trying to be helpful to the community and reconsider becoming a doctor.

 

[DO_messenger]

you're not being helpful so that post is not applicable in this situation.

 

[KUMC_MD]

HAHAHAHA

 

[Nater44]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
ABOUT QUINN, inher mind, judging from the babble she spewed...

I like and respect Quinn, the GUY has been helpful ever since I first posted on SDN. He's a great GUY. Don't knock the GUY for having a little fun. It's just GUY's messing around and don't take it so personally.

I'm really interested in osteopathic medicine and had the same question. If you look around the pre-osteo/pre-allo sites you'll see a lot of DO vs. MD crap. But whats interesting is that if you read what the REAL docs post what they are most concerned about is the person not the degree or title. They're professionals and can care less.

So, what I've gleaned from GUY's like Quinn is that it's the person that makes a good EM doc, not the degree.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Originally posted by Sessamoid
🙄

Don't mention it. If your post was intended as flame/troll, then count me a sucker for biting.

Just my humble opinion but...

SUCKER!

Do a search on the OP's previous posts. This is nothing new. Seems to me the OP was lookin' for a fight...

- H

 

[DO_messenger]

oh quinn is a guy with a picture of a female and the name of dr quinn just like dr quinn medicine woman on tv..... k, good to know... see i can COMPREHEND what you are saying....

anyways i too have been reading a lot of that stuff as you are talking about. but it is still troubling to read of hospitals that DO NOT allow DO's to go there... if the medical community likes them so much, then what is up with those few hospitals???

additionally the whole reasoning i had for posting here to begin with was the fact that i thought the REAL doctors, not the pre-med people, would have a serious opinion and one they could communicate while reflecting on their personal experiences in the medical field.

 

[DocWagner]

The word of the day is "Stompled"

Everyone needs to quiet down...Sessamoid was absolutely correct in stating the original message lacked coherence (it did). One must have thick skin to take a tad bit of criticism, don't you think.

Yes, both DO's and MD's make the same money...but it is the residency training that makes the EM physician...not the medical school. Honestly there are some bad DO residencies out there...and that lack of regulation is concerning. The RRC of EM is quite strict on ACGME EM residencies, therefore you can expect a certain quality in each EM trained doc.

Do I see the field expanding...yes. There needs to be more BC EM docs...and now more than ever, the ED is where patients spend hours and hours...so get used to procedures and longer management.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
Greg Nee, M.D.
Diplomate of the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

Going to be looking for jobs in my part of the country some day? Emergency Medicine is a remarkably small community. It's best not to really piss off anyone.


oh cool.. this is the kinda stuff that get ppl like you fired

You have got to be kidding me. I strongly suggest you don't even begin to go there, as you're right, EM IS a small community. I can't believe you are threatening (in whatever pseudo-authoritative role you have as an M1) someone else. Tsk tsk.

I will go eat my bon bons and watch Survivor in my post-call state.

Q, DO

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Nater44
I like and respect Quinn, the GUY has been helpful ever since I first posted on SDN. He's a great GUY. Don't knock the GUY for having a little fun. It's just GUY's messing around and don't take it so personally.

I'm really interested in osteopathic medicine and had the same question. If you look around the pre-osteo/pre-allo sites you'll see a lot of DO vs. MD crap. But whats interesting is that if you read what the REAL docs post what they are most concerned about is the person not the degree or title. They're professionals and can care less.

So, what I've gleaned from GUY's like Quinn is that it's the person that makes a good EM doc, not the degree.

Thanks CHICA, you're a cool GIRL too.

Q, DO, XO Turner's Syndrome

 

[DO_messenger]

hey dood... i didnt start with the whole "im gonna screw up your job life because the world of EM is so freakin small" thing... mister "im a diplomate" said it first... you guys are in a small world.. u all kno each other and back each other up even when ur wrong.

perhaps my FIRST post lacked some coherency, but my followup did not, and i was STILL contested on it as well.

i did not start trouble with anyone here, you all started smartass remarks with me.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
hey dood... i didnt start with the whole "im gonna screw up your job life because the world of EM is so freakin small" thing... mister "im a diplomate" said it first... you guys are in a small world.. u all kno each other and back each other up even when ur wrong.

It is not only uncouth but also very uncool to post personal information on an anonymous board.

I give you fair warning. There is an option to delete your post.

Q, DO

 

[Scrubbs]

Don't feed the trolls!!

 

[Sessamoid]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
perhaps my FIRST post lacked some coherency, but my followup did not, and i was STILL contested on it as well.

Your followup post was extremely sarcastic and insulting. It started with:

NEW COMMUNICATION STYLE TO ALLOW FOR THOSE WITH LIMITED COMPREHENSION ABILITIES

I'm not out to destroy your life or anything like that. The advice not to piss off your colleagues is advice given to me by my attendings frequently throughout residency. You never know when it will come back to bite you.

If you end up going into emergency medicine, you will see just how small a community it is when you go to ACEP's Scientific Assembly. It seems like everybody knows everybody there, and if you don't know them directly, you're connected to them through a friend. 8 Degrees of Kevin Bacon is huge compared to how many degrees separate all the emergency physicians in the country. I'm pretty sure that I (and every other residency-trained EM doc) am connected to every other EM-trained doc in America (and probably Canada too) by no more than 3 degrees or 4 degrees at most to catch all the DOs.

As one poster said before, you have to be able to take some criticism. If you feel slighted, you have to learn not to go off the deep-end. That kind of behavior with such little perceived provocation will create serious trouble for you in the hierarchical world of medical training. Medical training involves taking a certain amount of crap from people from whom you don't want to take crap. Take this advice to heart and chill out. You don't want to be labeled a "problem-maker" when it comes time for residency applications.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Sessamoid
You don't want to be labeled a "problem-maker" when it comes time for residency applications.

EGG-SACTLY.

Q, DO

 

[Nater44]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
oh quinn is a guy with a picture of a female and the name of dr quinn just like dr quinn medicine woman on tv..... k, good to know...

That's not just a female.....You have to admit whoever she is she's a vixen. As far as I know Quinn has yet to divulge the true identity of that beauty, but let's not give him crap about it because its a quality pic and I would hate to see it go.

 

[edinOH]

I hate to risk my professional career on a message board, but what the hell. I like to live dangerously.


DO_messenger,

You're a dumb ass.

 

[Nater44]

Is EM that close nit that if someone posts something stupid it could effect their careers?

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Nater44
Is EM that close nit that if someone posts something stupid it could effect their careers?

Yes. I have already sent multiple viruses (virii?) to your email account, as well as severed a horse's head and put it in your little sister's bed.

Q, DO

 

[KUMC_MD]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
It is not only uncouth but also very uncool to post personal information on an anonymous board.

I give you fair warning. There is an option to delete your post.

Q, DO

I do not see the coorelation, where did that guy post personal information?

 

[DO_messenger]

edinOH, sure, you're a ******* as well... happy?

Sessamoid
>>Your followup post was extremely sarcastic and insulting

ok so like now you are saying you are mad for me being sarcastic, when i got everyone on this board telling me to have a thicker skin??? biggotry goin on here doooooood.

 

[DO_messenger]

>>EGG-SACTLY. Q, DO


ok. i officially dub quinn an IT for all future purposes of gender issues.... yay!!!!

 

[Nater44]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
>>EGG-SACTLY. Q, DO


ok. i officially dub quinn an IT for all future purposes of gender issues.... yay!!!!

Although I'm still in the medical school application process, and I've come to find out that EM is an extremely tight nit community, it's never too late to start thinkng about my career so I'll refrain from saying something derogatory.

But that was sooo lame. 🙄

 

[FoughtFyr]

Originally posted by DO_messenger
biggotry goin on here doooooood.

Yep, you'll find EM folks ARE slightly prejudiced against stupid people... but hey, they are job security.

Originally posted by DO_messenger
ok. i officially dub quinn an IT for all future purposes of gender issues.... yay!!!!

Wow, now that IS arrogant. Quinn has over 1000 posts, has helped out just about anyone who asked, and has finished his degree program. He is a resident at one of his top choice programs (a feat many of us here aspire to). And now you come along to "officially dub" him anything. Please.

Sorry Scrubbs, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but I couldn't let that go...

(... going back to the 2ICU call room without any dessert)

- H

 

[DO_messenger]

i dont care what he/she (dr quinn medicine (wo)man) did... it has been egging me on the whole time... additionally i did not start in with the whole he/she thing until SOMEONE tried to point out that he/she is a he, and then SOMEONE ELSE said they dont know and quinn never said one way or the other... so there it stands...

 

[DO_messenger]

im a tested genius. 🙂

 

[DO_messenger]

you all have a wonderful life.... obviously this thread has brought out the very best that the AMA has to offer, so lets get out there and uhh... oh nm. it dont matter n e waz... l8rs holmes...

 

[stoic]

buh-bye

 

[DocWagner]

STOP...
No one is gonna keep anyone from residency...
No one is gonna keep anyone from a "career in EM"
Everyone will forget this in 24 hours...why, because this is a ridiculous conversation in cyberspace.

can't we all just get along??? Come-on, think of John Ritter at a time like this...what would he say about all this fighting!!

PS...DaveW "make like paper" as in the Red House Painters??

 

[Sessamoid]

Originally posted by DocWagner

can't we all just get along??? Come-on, think of John Ritter at a time like this...what would he say about all this fighting!!

"Yeah, what would Brian Boitano do?"

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help thinking of South Park. I miss John Ritter too. Does anybody else remember his short-lived but charming series Hooperman?

 

[samdaman]

Whatever happened to tolerance? I can expect an MS1 to get down to personal attacks... this is what the world is coming down to anyways..
As for Quinn... what difference does it make what his/her gender is? All I know is that he/she is EXTREMELY helpful and is always out there to give his/her opinion and advice... is'nt THAT more important?

I think we all have more important things to worry about, instead of finding ways of putting someone else down. Giving your opinion is different... being personal is different... think about it.
-samdaman

 

[stoic]

OK... I'm about to post completely off topic, so I apologize in advance. Normal I wouldn't do something so faux pas, but since this thread was deemed ******ed about 2 pages ago, I don't feel too bad.

DocW, yea, the "make like paper" is from the Red House Painters. Once I heard them described as "criminally under-enjoyed by the masses." Probably the best description of a band ever.

 

[DocWagner]

I went to medschool in KC and I see you are from Lawrence, KS...I spent many nights at the bottleneck . Saw Built to spill, Elliott Smith, Sebadoh etc.
I am a cool EM doc...yeah.

 

[DrDre']

Has the Bottleneck been around a long time (like since the early 90s)? I saw Public Enemy and Wall Flowers (or Flower children, I can't remember them so well) in Lawrence but I don't remember the venue name. It was a Sunday night. The most memorable part was driving to the outskirts of KC in a deluge to buy beer at Gomer's Chicken. Apparently, everyone drove to this mecca as it seemed to make all their money from EtOH sales and not deep-fried breasts. It was an awesome show. Bizarre dynamics though in the audience. Angy inner city and hippies. I am not sure which group I belonged to. I always thought of myself as a peace punk... Sorry to continue the hijacking of this high-quality thread!

I would say, most anecdotally from my experience in 4 cities, that EM is one of the most DO-friendly fields out there with high numbers and no discrimination at all.

 

[KUMC_MD]

EGG-SACTLY.

Q, DO

im hungry

 

[KUMC_MD]

STOP...
No one is gonna keep anyone from residency...
No one is gonna keep anyone from a "career in EM"
Everyone will forget this in 24 hours...why, because this is a ridiculous conversation in cyberspace.

can't we all just get along??? Come-on, think of John Ritter at a time like this...what would he say about all this fighting!!

PS...DaveW "make like paper" as in the Red House Painters??

really?

 

[DrQuinn]

You resurrected this thread for those three words of wisdom?
Thanks!