Assays to evaluate mRNA stability? (ISO: molecular gurus)

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So last week I was asking about alternatives to Nuclear Run-off...

Basically, I am trying to determine if the changes in gene expression I'm seeing after stimulus are the result in changes in rate of transcription, or overall level of transcript present resulting from changes in mRNA stability/metabolism.

One thing that has been suggested to me to assay mRNA stability would be label the transcripts with a radio-nucleotide primer, and then knowing the specific activity of my radio nucleotide primer I could quantify the amount of transcript I have over time.

Anyone else have any ideas?

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Would transcription inhibitors help?
 
Perhaps try FISH assays and look at total nuclear fluorescence vs. cytoplasmic? Somebody out there has probably done this, but I'm just spitting out ideas :corny:

Alternatively, try northern analysis on total nuclear vs cytoplasmic RNA. See if the cytoplasmic fraction shows heightened degradation/ if nuclear fraction shows any change. :idea:
 
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Yeah.. I already tried actinomycin, and it was sorta frowned upon.

Essentially my committee has something very specific in mind that they want me to come up with, and they are being real stubborn about giving me any real clear insight on what exactly they are looking for.

I found a couple more nice references though using inhibitors. It seems like they can only balk for so long if I have plenty of high-grade literature to back my ideas up.
 
Perhaps try FISH assays and look at total nuclear fluorescence vs. cytoplasmic? Somebody out there has probably done this, but I'm just spitting out ideas :corny:

Alternatively, try northern analysis on total nuclear vs cytoplasmic RNA. See if the cytoplasmic fraction shows heightened degradation/ if nuclear fraction shows any change. :idea:

I've already addressed localization as one of the mechanisms of post-transcriptional control of gene expression.

Right now I'm looking more at rate vs. stability, and in particular stability

isH is a great method for looking at localization though, that's a good thought
 
Well hell.. if anyone is interested and bored.. here's what I've written so far:

2. Gene expression may be controlled at various levels, including transcription, mRNA stabilization, or translation. How would you establish which mechanism or mechanisms may be operative?

Techniques such as ELISA or densitometry are useful methods to evaluate the response of cells to a given stimulus. However, these approaches offer very little insight to the investigator as to which molecular mechanism is engaged by the cell to evoke a differential response. It then becomes necessary to incorporate more discriminatory techniques into the study design so as to elucidate the mechanism by which a particular cellular response is elicited.

Several techniques are available for the detection of differential gene expression at the level of steady-state mRNA. These include Northern Blot, RT-PCR, slot-blot hybridization, microarray analysis, and others. By measuring the production of gene specific mRNA, an investigator can gain information on the potential for modulation of protein production. However, while variance in transcript level often correlates with changes in protein expression, it is critical to remember that changes in mRNA levels do not guarantee differential expression of protein. These data require validation by looking at actual protein expression through the use of other techniques.

Regulation of protein expression also occurs at the post-transcriptional level. These mechanisms of control include regulation of nuclear export, cytoplasmic localization, translation initiation, or mRNA decay (8). To examine if nuclear export or cytoplasmic localization where an operative mechanism in differential protein expression, in situ hybridization could be used to identify in detail how mRNA is being trafficked within the cell (9). In particular, Long, et al. have developed a technique capable of monitoring both the temporal, as well as the spatial, trafficking of mRNA using fluorescent in situ hybridization (10).

It is also important to distinguish between increased rates of transcription versus mRNA stability when trying to determine the molecular mechanism by which cells respond to a particular stimulus. Fan, et al., working with human non-small lung carcinoma H1299 cells subject to stress, demonstrated that only half of observed changes in mRNA levels within their model were accompanied by a corresponding increase or decrease in transcription rate (11). Transcription rate was measured using the nuclear run-on assay, a technique in which cell nuclei are isolated, incubated with radio labeled nucleotides, and hybridized to probe arrays to determine which genes are being actively transcribed at a given time point. Cheadle, et al. modified the nuclear run-on assay for high throughput use compatible with microarray analysis. Studying changes in human Jurkat T cells undergoing activation, their group discovered that about half of the 2,386 regulated genes studied underwent modulation of mRNA levels with no corresponding change in transcription rate, implying biochemical changes had occurred within the cell effecting mRNA stability and rate of decay (12). These studies emphasize the importance of mRNA stability and rate of transcript decay as a critical mechanism by which regulation of gene expression is achieved.

Previously, adenine and uridine rich elements (ARE) in the 3' untranslated region of cytokine mRNA have been identified which contribute to transcript metabolism (13, 14). An array of ARE-binding proteins are capable of modulating both mRNA stability, as well as translation, in a positive or negative fashion (15). For instance, it has been shown that when DLD-1 cells are exposed to a cytokine mixture containing IFN-γ, IL-1β, and TNF-α, the mRNA stabilizer HuR was able to compete for and displace the destabilizing KH-type splicing regulatory protein from a common binding site, leading to a diminished decay of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) mRNA (16). It was later reported that iNOS is upregulated in MSC treated with a similar cocktail, and secretion of this factor is important in their immunosuppressive function (17). Our group has shown IFN-γ treated MSC to possess heightened efficacy in vivo (18), and in lieu of these other studies, regulation of mRNA metabolism is a potential effector mechanism of activated MSC which would warrant further investigation.

Mammalian transcript half-lives range from ~15 minutes to as much as 10 hours (19), and may span several cell cycles (20). Modulation of this mRNA metabolism is a powerful mechanism by which a cell is able to manipulate its expression profile, and an alternate approach to nuclear run-on is needed to prove if changes in mRNA stability occur in response to a particular treatment. Such a technique would require the ability to quantify specific transcript levels across time. One such approach would be to generate a library of mRNA primers that contain radio labeled nucleotides. Knowing the specific activity of the radio labels would allow the investigator to quantify the levels of a specific transcript over time, and by comparing these data to control experiments would demonstrate if changes in mRNA stability were to occur. Alternatively, transcriptional inhibitors (actinomycin-D, thiolutin, 1,10-phenanthroline, 6-azauricil, cordycepin, etc.) or a temperature-sensitive RNA polymerase II, as demonstrated by Grigull, et al, could be used to block de novo transcription, allowing one to quantify transcript levels over time using microarray analysis (19).

An additional mechanism of control by which protein expression may be regulated is at the level of translation. Kaur, et al. have provided evidence that Akt activation is required for IFN-stimulated engagement of the mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway (7). The mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway regulates translation through the downstream effectors ribosomal protein S6 and eukaryotic initiation factor 4E (21). In these studies, initiation of translation was verified by isolating polysomal mRNA before qRT-PCR using a sucrose density gradient. A similar technique could be used to purify stress granules, which are cytoplasmic foci that inhibit translation, disassemble polysomes, and contain RNA-induced silencing complexes (RISC) (22).

In summary, there are a number of different molecular mechanisms by which cells are capable of regulating gene expression for the production of differential responses. It is important for a more in-depth understanding of how a system works to keep these mechanisms in mind when developing an experimental design or attempting to critically evaluate data. Only through discrete consideration of each of these mechanisms can an investigator channel the biological potential of their system for the most effective development of potential therapies or scientific application.
 
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How many mRNA's are we talking about? If it's just a few, a couple of multi-plexed real-time PCR runs might do the trick.

-X

/Not a molecular guru.
 
How many mRNA's are we talking about? If it's just a few, a couple of multi-plexed real-time PCR runs might do the trick.

-X

/Not a molecular guru.

RT-PCR does not work, as it doesn't actually quantify transcript levels.

Since it amplifies mRNA geometrically, it only provides a relative level of transcript in comparison to some normalized housekeeping gene.
 
RT-PCR does not work, as it doesn't actually quantify transcript levels.

Since it amplifies mRNA geometrically, it only provides a relative level of transcript in comparison to some normalized housekeeping gene.

RT-PCR is a good experient here (probably the best IMHO).

You need to set up two reactions- your gene of interest without stimulation vs. "housekeeping" control, and your stimulated GOI vs. stimulated "housekeeping" gene. Subtracting out the two relative values is an "absolute" fold-expression increase from your unstimulated GOI to your stimulated GOI.

This needs to be done real-time with fluorescently-labeled probes for accurate results.
 
There are kits to measure total RNA of interest I think. RNEasy or what not. Measure at different time points after stimulus treatment, compare to control, if levels stay the same, mRNA stability is not affected. Kit is kinda pricey though IIRC.

Kaur, et al. have provided evidence that Akt activation is required for IFN-stimulated engagement of the mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway (7). The mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway regulates translation through the downstream effectors ribosomal protein S6 and eukaryotic initiation factor 4E

Are you writing a review here? Also, any particular reason you picked mTOR as an example?
 
Are you writing a review here? Also, any particular reason you picked mTOR as an example?

Last time I met with my thesis committee, they took some issue with how I responded to a couple of their questions.

As a result, they wanted me to formally address their concerns in writing.

I picked that particular mTOR study because a) it deals with the translation portion of their question 2) my project involves IFN-stimulated genes (ISG), specifically cytokines and 3) one of my committee members is a collaborating author on that particular paper


GB: I think I see where you are coming from, but what you are proposing is just going to give me an absolute fold increase in transcript levels. I need something that is actually gonna give me mRNA levels in something besides arbitrary units.
 
If your control has known RNA/cDNA input, your target can be measured in terms of absolute quantities too. My former mentor used to measure her targets in #s of molecules😱
 
Last time I met with my thesis committee, they took some issue with how I responded to a couple of their questions.

As a result, they wanted me to formally address their concerns in writing.

I picked that particular mTOR study because a) it deals with the translation portion of their question 2) my project involves IFN-stimulated genes (ISG), specifically cytokines and 3) one of my committee members is a collaborating author on that particular paper

Thanks for the info. My project is looking at Tansirolimus in the context of pulmonary vascular EC integrity, so I figured we may have a common pathway we are working on. I see you are much more focused on gene expression though. I am more about signaling, cMet/Akt.
 
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And apparently you can't use RNEasy for a specific transcript, only total RNA. I am a noob.
 
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If your control has known RNA/cDNA input, your target can be measured in terms of absolute quantities too. My former mentor used to measure her targets in #s of molecules😱

THIS

Again, RT-PCR is the best experiment here. Talk to people at your institution who do this who can help you set it up.
 
Your assessment of kinetic PCR (also known as real-time) is correct. It provides relative thresholds, but not # of molecules. For that purpose you need competition PCR. Competition PCR utilizes a spiked in known number of internal standard molecules with identical priming sites to your target template. The internal standard is truncated in size (~10-20% smaller; internal deletion) compared to your target amplicon in the native sample, but still has similar amplication efficiency to the native (need to titrate to verify that with each region assessing). You then assess your PCR products by electrophoresis and densitometry of the bands (internal standard amplicon and native target amplicon). The ratio of the band densities gives you the number of molecules of native target put into your original reaction.

Example:
You observe the band density of your internal standard is half that of your native target peak's density. If you put 100 molecules of internal standard into your PCR reaction, the you just measured 200 molecules of native template. The caveat here is that you must validate that your primers titrate properly and linearly. And that you have a good linear dynamic range.

The assumption that reverse transcription from experiment to experiment as well as the efficiency between each set of primers is similar is very dangerous. I have experienced inter-experimental variability as well as inter-sample ability to amplify a native target, separate from the actual 'intactness' of the sample. There are tissue specific and cell-culture specific PCR inhibitors that chelate to DNA (heme and Fe, and Ca are notorious) and stubbornly do not get washed away. Remember Taq's efficiency is very finicky to divalent cation concentrations. This can lead to epic false positive and negative results in real-time. Believe me, I've been there before.

I highly recommend you check out Stephen Bustin "A-Z Quantitative PCR," as it is probably the most authoritative source on getting your measurements right.


There really is no such thing as quantitative, everything needs to be referenced to some sort of gold standard. Cycle threshold is not a standard.



STANDARDS are KEY!
 
So last week I was asking about alternatives to Nuclear Run-off...

Basically, I am trying to determine if the changes in gene expression I'm seeing after stimulus are the result in changes in rate of transcription, or overall level of transcript present resulting from changes in mRNA stability/metabolism.

One thing that has been suggested to me to assay mRNA stability would be label the transcripts with a radio-nucleotide primer, and then knowing the specific activity of my radio nucleotide primer I could quantify the amount of transcript I have over time.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Culture your cells with radionucleotides, remove culture medium with radionucleotides, replace with normal culture medium, isolate RNA (e.g. trizol), then hybridize your specific gene's RNA using an array with probes to 5', middle and 3' end of transcript of interest. Time-points for isolation of RNA samples will provide information on the kinetics of degradation. Probes to different regions for a given transcript along with time-points will provide insight into mechanisms of mrna degradation. endonuclease vs. 3' or 5' exonucleases.

Alternatively you can leave your radionucleotides on and take time points to measure rates of transcription to arrive at steady-state.

Normalize to number of cells isolated.

Importantly, radiolabeled RNA standards will be need to be generated to determine linear dynamic range (array hybridizations have flattened signal:analyte response curves), lower quantitative limits (not just detection limit), etc.

Use a phosphorimager (e.g. a kodak system) for your densitometry in this situation; X-ray film lacks the appropriate linear dynamic range (saturation is an issue in the latter).
 
Thanks Squeegee. Very insightful and helpful.


NurbekIL: I'm not sure I know what Tansirolimus is. Although I do work in transplantation and we commonly administer Sirolimus (a.k.a. rapamycin) to prevent graft rejection (doing so by binding to and inhibiting the mTor complex ).

I'm actually studying the regulation of gene expression in mesenchymal stem cells in response to stimulation by type II interferon. I don't really have to do anything with mTor pathways, other than the fact that it was recently shown that Akt activation leads to regulation of IFN-stimulated genes (type I and type II) at the translational level through the aforementioned pathway. Which was novel, as most of the literature to that point has focused on regulation of gene expression at the transcriptional level.
 
Thanks Squeegee. Very insightful and helpful.


NurbekIL: I'm not sure I know what Tansirolimus is. Although I do work in transplantation and we commonly administer Sirolimus (a.k.a. rapamycin) to prevent graft rejection (doing so by binding to and inhibiting the mTor complex ).

I'm actually studying the regulation of gene expression in mesenchymal stem cells in response to stimulation by type II interferon. I don't really have to do anything with mTor pathways, other than the fact that it was recently shown that Akt activation leads to regulation of IFN-stimulated genes (type I and type II) at the translational level through the aforementioned pathway. Which was novel, as most of the literature to that point has focused on regulation of gene expression at the transcriptional level.

For studying the effects of translational efficiency you need RIP (ribosomal immunoprecipitation). Same concept as ChIP, but with an antibody to the polysomal complex. The more your ribosomal antibody (should be commercially available) enriches your transcript of interest, the more it has been recruited to the polysomal complex and is being actively translated.

I haven't gotten to the point in my studies were I've had to parse out translational regulation for my gene of interest, I'm currently at the transcriptional regulatory level. With that, I can't comment on the limitations of RIP in comparison to ChIP. I do know that it requires careful cellular fractionation which may not be easy to reproducibly do.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks Squeegee. Very insightful and helpful.


NurbekIL: I'm not sure I know what Tansirolimus is. Although I do work in transplantation and we commonly administer Sirolimus (a.k.a. rapamycin) to prevent graft rejection (doing so by binding to and inhibiting the mTor complex ).

I'm actually studying the regulation of gene expression in mesenchymal stem cells in response to stimulation by type II interferon. I don't really have to do anything with mTor pathways, other than the fact that it was recently shown that Akt activation leads to regulation of IFN-stimulated genes (type I and type II) at the translational level through the aforementioned pathway. Which was novel, as most of the literature to that point has focused on regulation of gene expression at the transcriptional level.

Tansirolimus is a precursor form of sirolimus. I think they just add an extra functional group to make it more stable, but it is eventually cleaved.

Akt is our favorite molecule right now since it is pretty much involved in everything. Our lab has shown that Akt activation enhances pulmonary EC barrier, disruption of which is ALI pathology. So, now we are looking at Akt downstream targets and mTOR is kinda hot right now.

I associated IFNs with only the immune system, but it is interesting to know they are involved in developmental pathways.
 
Culture your cells with radionucleotides, remove culture medium with radionucleotides, replace with normal culture medium, isolate RNA (e.g. trizol), then hybridize your specific gene's RNA using an array with probes to 5', middle and 3' end of transcript of interest. Time-points for isolation of RNA samples will provide information on the kinetics of degradation. Probes to different regions for a given transcript along with time-points will provide insight into mechanisms of mrna degradation. endonuclease vs. 3' or 5' exonucleases.

Alternatively you can leave your radionucleotides on and take time points to measure rates of transcription to arrive at steady-state.

Normalize to number of cells isolated.

Importantly, radiolabeled RNA standards will be need to be generated to determine linear dynamic range (array hybridizations have flattened signal:analyte response curves), lower quantitative limits (not just detection limit), etc.

Use a phosphorimager (e.g. a kodak system) for your densitometry in this situation; X-ray film lacks the appropriate linear dynamic range (saturation is an issue in the latter).


I know it's been a while since this thread has been going on, but I had a question about using the Northern with radiolabeled nucleotides. If you do the Northern on total mRNA, and you want to probe for your specific transcripts how would you distinguish the probe signal from the signal from the radiolabelled nt? I'm new to Northerns, but I wanted to propose this as an experiment and I wasn't quite sure how I would identify my specific transcripts from the total RNA. Thanks in advance!!
 
If you do the Northern on total mRNA, and you want to probe for your specific transcripts how would you distinguish the probe signal from the signal from the radiolabelled nt?

Typically, the sample you are testing is not radiolabeled. After the sample is separated based on size, you incubate the membrane containing your unlabeled sample with a radiolabeled probe. The hybridized regions will exhibit signal.
 
I know that is conventially done with Northern blots, but what if you were trying to assess mRNA stability by radiolabeling with a pulse-chase experiment? It was mentioned earlier in the thread and I'm interested in proposing it as an experiment, I just wasn't sure how to probe for my transcripts of interest. Would I only be able to assess mRNA stability of the culture as a whole this way?
 
I know that is conventially done with Northern blots, but what if you were trying to assess mRNA stability by radiolabeling with a pulse-chase experiment? It was mentioned earlier in the thread and I'm interested in proposing it as an experiment, I just wasn't sure how to probe for my transcripts of interest. Would I only be able to assess mRNA stability of the culture as a whole this way?

You could try a ribonuclease protection assay: http://www.ambion.com/techlib/basics/npa/index.html
 
Well hell.. if anyone is interested and bored.. here's what I've written so far:

2. Gene expression may be controlled at various levels, including transcription, mRNA stabilization, or translation. How would you establish which mechanism or mechanisms may be operative?

Techniques such as ELISA or densitometry are useful methods to evaluate the response of cells to a given stimulus. However, these approaches offer very little insight to the investigator as to which molecular mechanism is engaged by the cell to evoke a differential response. It then becomes necessary to incorporate more discriminatory techniques into the study design so as to elucidate the mechanism by which a particular cellular response is elicited.

Several techniques are available for the detection of differential gene expression at the level of steady-state mRNA. These include Northern Blot, RT-PCR, slot-blot hybridization, microarray analysis, and others. By measuring the production of gene specific mRNA, an investigator can gain information on the potential for modulation of protein production. However, while variance in transcript level often correlates with changes in protein expression, it is critical to remember that changes in mRNA levels do not guarantee differential expression of protein. These data require validation by looking at actual protein expression through the use of other techniques.

Regulation of protein expression also occurs at the post-transcriptional level. These mechanisms of control include regulation of nuclear export, cytoplasmic localization, translation initiation, or mRNA decay (8). To examine if nuclear export or cytoplasmic localization where an operative mechanism in differential protein expression, in situ hybridization could be used to identify in detail how mRNA is being trafficked within the cell (9). In particular, Long, et al. have developed a technique capable of monitoring both the temporal, as well as the spatial, trafficking of mRNA using fluorescent in situ hybridization (10).

It is also important to distinguish between increased rates of transcription versus mRNA stability when trying to determine the molecular mechanism by which cells respond to a particular stimulus. Fan, et al., working with human non-small lung carcinoma H1299 cells subject to stress, demonstrated that only half of observed changes in mRNA levels within their model were accompanied by a corresponding increase or decrease in transcription rate (11). Transcription rate was measured using the nuclear run-on assay, a technique in which cell nuclei are isolated, incubated with radio labeled nucleotides, and hybridized to probe arrays to determine which genes are being actively transcribed at a given time point. Cheadle, et al. modified the nuclear run-on assay for high throughput use compatible with microarray analysis. Studying changes in human Jurkat T cells undergoing activation, their group discovered that about half of the 2,386 regulated genes studied underwent modulation of mRNA levels with no corresponding change in transcription rate, implying biochemical changes had occurred within the cell effecting mRNA stability and rate of decay (12). These studies emphasize the importance of mRNA stability and rate of transcript decay as a critical mechanism by which regulation of gene expression is achieved.

Previously, adenine and uridine rich elements (ARE) in the 3' untranslated region of cytokine mRNA have been identified which contribute to transcript metabolism (13, 14). An array of ARE-binding proteins are capable of modulating both mRNA stability, as well as translation, in a positive or negative fashion (15). For instance, it has been shown that when DLD-1 cells are exposed to a cytokine mixture containing IFN-γ, IL-1β, and TNF-α, the mRNA stabilizer HuR was able to compete for and displace the destabilizing KH-type splicing regulatory protein from a common binding site, leading to a diminished decay of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) mRNA (16). It was later reported that iNOS is upregulated in MSC treated with a similar cocktail, and secretion of this factor is important in their immunosuppressive function (17). Our group has shown IFN-γ treated MSC to possess heightened efficacy in vivo (18), and in lieu of these other studies, regulation of mRNA metabolism is a potential effector mechanism of activated MSC which would warrant further investigation.

Mammalian transcript half-lives range from ~15 minutes to as much as 10 hours (19), and may span several cell cycles (20). Modulation of this mRNA metabolism is a powerful mechanism by which a cell is able to manipulate its expression profile, and an alternate approach to nuclear run-on is needed to prove if changes in mRNA stability occur in response to a particular treatment. Such a technique would require the ability to quantify specific transcript levels across time. One such approach would be to generate a library of mRNA primers that contain radio labeled nucleotides. Knowing the specific activity of the radio labels would allow the investigator to quantify the levels of a specific transcript over time, and by comparing these data to control experiments would demonstrate if changes in mRNA stability were to occur. Alternatively, transcriptional inhibitors (actinomycin-D, thiolutin, 1,10-phenanthroline, 6-azauricil, cordycepin, etc.) or a temperature-sensitive RNA polymerase II, as demonstrated by Grigull, et al, could be used to block de novo transcription, allowing one to quantify transcript levels over time using microarray analysis (19).

An additional mechanism of control by which protein expression may be regulated is at the level of translation. Kaur, et al. have provided evidence that Akt activation is required for IFN-stimulated engagement of the mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway (7). The mTor/p70 S6 kinase pathway regulates translation through the downstream effectors ribosomal protein S6 and eukaryotic initiation factor 4E (21). In these studies, initiation of translation was verified by isolating polysomal mRNA before qRT-PCR using a sucrose density gradient. A similar technique could be used to purify stress granules, which are cytoplasmic foci that inhibit translation, disassemble polysomes, and contain RNA-induced silencing complexes (RISC) (22).

In summary, there are a number of different molecular mechanisms by which cells are capable of regulating gene expression for the production of differential responses. It is important for a more in-depth understanding of how a system works to keep these mechanisms in mind when developing an experimental design or attempting to critically evaluate data. Only through discrete consideration of each of these mechanisms can an investigator channel the biological potential of their system for the most effective development of potential therapies or scientific application.
Hi, I would like to thank for your information. I have one question, which paper did you cite?
 
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