Does anyone know what the average rate of pay for an associate (general dentist), with a GPR, in New York is?
Manhattan, Brookyln, Queens, and Long Island specifically.
thanks
Manhattan, Brookyln, Queens, and Long Island specifically.
thanks
associate salary
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Between $80K and $110K. It will depend on how you negotiate your associateship contract too-- How much percentage, by production or collection, and if there are any bonuses when you exceed a certain level of production, etc.
But for the most part you should be able to find an associateship in the NYC/Tri-State area that pays between $80K-$110K during your first year of private practice.
Good luck!
But for the most part you should be able to find an associateship in the NYC/Tri-State area that pays between $80K-$110K during your first year of private practice.
Good luck!
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Tom..are your figures fact, or just what you have seen/heard?
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Basically, you want to look for an associateship where you can produce at least $1,200 worth of procedures a day, with a contract that gives you at least 30% of production, which means you earn $350 per day. That will gross you at least $80,000/yr.
Shoot, you can generate $1,200 worth of production a day easily in the NYC area in a reasonably busy practice-- That's like doing about 12 composite fillings a day, if the practice charges the average fees for the NYC area. And if you had done a GPR or AEGD prior to entering private practice, you should be even faster than that!
That's why when you look at trial associateships, an important question to ask the owner is how far he/she is booked in advance. You know the practice will be reasonably busy if the appointments are booked up at least 2 weeks in advance.
It's almost unheard of for a full-time associate to earn less than $80K/yr in the NYC area.
HTH!
Shoot, you can generate $1,200 worth of production a day easily in the NYC area in a reasonably busy practice-- That's like doing about 12 composite fillings a day, if the practice charges the average fees for the NYC area. And if you had done a GPR or AEGD prior to entering private practice, you should be even faster than that!
That's why when you look at trial associateships, an important question to ask the owner is how far he/she is booked in advance. You know the practice will be reasonably busy if the appointments are booked up at least 2 weeks in advance.
It's almost unheard of for a full-time associate to earn less than $80K/yr in the NYC area.
HTH!
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Tom, thanks for your helpful info.
Out of curiosity, do you know about what percentage of dentist are in managed care ...like medicaids?
Where do you make more money, medicare office or non-medicare office?
Out of curiosity, do you know about what percentage of dentist are in managed care ...like medicaids?
Where do you make more money, medicare office or non-medicare office?
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I understand your numbers are applicable to NY, but what about other states? Im assuming that these numbers are not the same throughout the country.
And Tom, when are you and griffin gonna come down to Toronto? We should get together for a drink!
And Tom, when are you and griffin gonna come down to Toronto? We should get together for a drink!
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I think it?s unfair to place an entire state, as a whole, into a lump sum associate salary figure. There is a huge regional variation between markets, and each location in a state is going to be a little different than another one. In Illinois, the going rate for an associate position in Chicago is a little higher than that of one in Southern Illinois, but the cost of living is different also.... lot's of things need to be taken into account with this. My advice is to search around on dental town, where most positions run anywhere from $80-110K as Tom said.
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My fiances mom has a friend whos daughter just finished dental school and made $200k her first year in Tampa 
How she did it....I have no idea but I want to talk to her bec I do not believe it. I want to see a pay stub!
How she did it....I have no idea but I want to talk to her bec I do not believe it. I want to see a pay stub!
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Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
My fiances mom has a friend whos daughter just finished dental school and made $200k her first year in Tampa
How she did it....I have no idea but I want to talk to her bec I do not believe it. I want to see a pay stub!
I still cant believe that a dentist would declare to their family, or in this case, a friend how much they make. Isnt that kind of personal? I know I wouldnt tell everyone how much I make.
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Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
My fiances mom has a friend whos daughter just finished dental school and made $200k her first year in Tampa
How she did it....I have no idea but I want to talk to her bec I do not believe it. I want to see a pay stub!
Sweet. My uncle's neighbor's kid's teacher just went on a date with a guy whose nephew's friend just graduated dental school and made $423,873 the first year working only 3 days a week.
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You'll likely be billing a bit more than your $100/composite average you're asuming. Heck, I even get more than for even my least expensive composites and I'm out in the middle of rural Connecticut.
Doing $1200 per day is also quite a reasonable number, especially after a month or 2 when you'll lile yhave enough patient contacts to be doing atleast 1 "big" procedure at day (i.e. something where you're billing $750+ for 60 to 90 minutes worth of work - endo's, crown+bridge, removable, quadrants of composites, etc). In most situations, even if you're justing doing prophies all day you'll be billing atleast $1000/day. Plus, if you're only getting 30%, you'd better not be paying lab fees and have a few other perks also(CE money/courses, clothing allowance, etc)
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It all depends on how much you make and at what percentage the dentist is willing to pay you. Most ass. dentists average 27 percent takehome. While most overheads are around 63 to 67 percent, the dentist that you are working for will make his 5 plus percent just for having you around.
BE CAREFULL THOUGH. A lot of dentists will not want to pay you the average percent. I know a family member of mine is only making 21 percent and is avg. 1800 total gross in one day. In short he is making the dentist around 200 bucks a day gross and after overhead around 75 bucks profit a day just for working for him.
Its all about speed baby, all about speed.
BE CAREFULL THOUGH. A lot of dentists will not want to pay you the average percent. I know a family member of mine is only making 21 percent and is avg. 1800 total gross in one day. In short he is making the dentist around 200 bucks a day gross and after overhead around 75 bucks profit a day just for working for him.
Its all about speed baby, all about speed.
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I'm definitely looking forward to it, Dr. Jeff!
I am going to be so nervous right after I pass the NERBs (knock on wood)-- Hopefully I will be fast enough during my first year of private practice!
I am going to be so nervous right after I pass the NERBs (knock on wood)-- Hopefully I will be fast enough during my first year of private practice!
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UBTom, did you change your mind about doing the yearlong GPR after graduation?
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That's why it's safer to always go fo 35% of production OR $450, whichever is the highest number.
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Maybe.
There are plenty of practices I would rather work for 25% of collections than 35% of production and a daily guarantee.
Each situation has to be looked at individually as to what it has to offer (and not just monetarily).
Most associateships don't work out i.e. there is not a purchase or buy in by the junior doctor. You should think about what you want to get out of the 1-5 years you spend in someone else's building. It might be a barrel of cash to open your own shop, it might be experience from a good mentor so you can actually profitably run your new shop. Just some ideas, I don't think there is a right or wrong.
JMHO
Rob
There are plenty of practices I would rather work for 25% of collections than 35% of production and a daily guarantee.
Each situation has to be looked at individually as to what it has to offer (and not just monetarily).
Most associateships don't work out i.e. there is not a purchase or buy in by the junior doctor. You should think about what you want to get out of the 1-5 years you spend in someone else's building. It might be a barrel of cash to open your own shop, it might be experience from a good mentor so you can actually profitably run your new shop. Just some ideas, I don't think there is a right or wrong.
JMHO
Rob
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That's great advice, Rob.
What you said is especially true in the NYC area, where there are a lot of owners who are simply looking for a warm body. My sister had gone through six trial associateships before she found her job. Hopefully I might have less of a hassle (yay nepotism!)
to BingPredent:
I don't know what the situation is with NYS Medicaid, but in the past I have heard of complaints from dentists that it was a hassle to deal with. I have an uncle who practices in the Inwood area of Northern Manhattan where there are a lot of Medicaid dentists-- I'll ask him what the story is when I get a chance.
to DMD Dude:
I was going to do a GPR until I did my externships over the summer of my junior year... The thing is, what I saw didn't impress me that much I kind of lost interest. I think I'll be OK though; I'll just pester my sister to teach me the stuff she learned in her GPR.
to Avingupta:
I'll have some free time after May 8 (graduation day) and maybe I'll be able to come up to TO and take a look!
What you said is especially true in the NYC area, where there are a lot of owners who are simply looking for a warm body. My sister had gone through six trial associateships before she found her job. Hopefully I might have less of a hassle (yay nepotism!)
to BingPredent:
I don't know what the situation is with NYS Medicaid, but in the past I have heard of complaints from dentists that it was a hassle to deal with. I have an uncle who practices in the Inwood area of Northern Manhattan where there are a lot of Medicaid dentists-- I'll ask him what the story is when I get a chance.
to DMD Dude:
I was going to do a GPR until I did my externships over the summer of my junior year... The thing is, what I saw didn't impress me that much I kind of lost interest.
I think I'll be OK though; I'll just pester my sister to teach me the stuff she learned in her GPR. to Avingupta:
I'll have some free time after May 8 (graduation day) and maybe I'll be able to come up to TO and take a look!
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated.
UB-Tom,
You seem to have a lot of info on this topic. WHat were some of the things your sister felt were negative about her 6 trial associates? WHat were some aspects of the practice she signed with that made her want to stay there? DId she sign a contract at any of the six trial associateships? What were some ways she found the right place for her (other than the usual newspaper route)?
thanks
DDS '04
Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated.
UB-Tom,
You seem to have a lot of info on this topic. WHat were some of the things your sister felt were negative about her 6 trial associates? WHat were some aspects of the practice she signed with that made her want to stay there? DId she sign a contract at any of the six trial associateships? What were some ways she found the right place for her (other than the usual newspaper route)?
thanks
DDS '04
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Hey DDS04,
Well, my sister got her trial associateships via a number of sources... From the attendings in her GPR program and instructors from her school, she was able to get some referrals to practices looking to take on associates, plus the usual ad hunts.
Her trial associateships ran the gamut.. One was with one of the midtown Manhattan practices which offered high-tech stuff like CEREC-3, hard and soft-tissue lasers, etc. I won't name names, but it didn't work out because the owner treated the new associates like peons-- He expects you to work 6 days a week, arrive 8AM every day and leave after 7PM.
Others she looked at included one of those single-dentist practices that are tucked away in quiet apartment buildings which seemed very prevalent in NYC. That didn't work out either-- Not busy enough. The owner dentist was at the stage where he is looking to take on a partner and eventually transfer ownership through a buy-out so he can retire, and his patient pool was pretty "grey" (lots of folks who have been seeing him for decades).
My sister finally settled on an associateship in a group practice in Westchester which provided comprehensive care with specialists in-house (endo, pedo, perio, oral surgery, ortho, etc.), which also spreads out the legal risks (NYC is one of the most litigious places in the country!). While it's not as high-tech as the one in Midtown, there is plenty she could learn from the specialists, which was why she took it on. Westchester (Scarsdale specifically) is also an affluent community and she could do lots of high-value procedures like implant surgery and restoration. And most importantly, the owner and staff are pleasant to work with (most of the time) and the location is in a commercial district surrounded by upscale shops so it is highly visible.
My sister is not going to buy into that group practice though, because her goal is to establish her own (with some help from me, of course.)
Hopefully in a few years after we both have paid off most of our loans, we can pool our resources and build a practice somewhere in the Tri-State area, probably following the group practice model. She likes Westchester, I like Long Island. But I'm sure we'll reach a compromise..
Well, my sister got her trial associateships via a number of sources... From the attendings in her GPR program and instructors from her school, she was able to get some referrals to practices looking to take on associates, plus the usual ad hunts.
Her trial associateships ran the gamut.. One was with one of the midtown Manhattan practices which offered high-tech stuff like CEREC-3, hard and soft-tissue lasers, etc. I won't name names, but it didn't work out because the owner treated the new associates like peons-- He expects you to work 6 days a week, arrive 8AM every day and leave after 7PM.
Others she looked at included one of those single-dentist practices that are tucked away in quiet apartment buildings which seemed very prevalent in NYC. That didn't work out either-- Not busy enough. The owner dentist was at the stage where he is looking to take on a partner and eventually transfer ownership through a buy-out so he can retire, and his patient pool was pretty "grey" (lots of folks who have been seeing him for decades).
My sister finally settled on an associateship in a group practice in Westchester which provided comprehensive care with specialists in-house (endo, pedo, perio, oral surgery, ortho, etc.), which also spreads out the legal risks (NYC is one of the most litigious places in the country!). While it's not as high-tech as the one in Midtown, there is plenty she could learn from the specialists, which was why she took it on. Westchester (Scarsdale specifically) is also an affluent community and she could do lots of high-value procedures like implant surgery and restoration. And most importantly, the owner and staff are pleasant to work with (most of the time) and the location is in a commercial district surrounded by upscale shops so it is highly visible.
My sister is not going to buy into that group practice though, because her goal is to establish her own (with some help from me, of course.)
Hopefully in a few years after we both have paid off most of our loans, we can pool our resources and build a practice somewhere in the Tri-State area, probably following the group practice model. She likes Westchester, I like Long Island. But I'm sure we'll reach a compromise..
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Of course it's before taxes.
I think $80K is pretty much the bare minimum in order to survive in the NYC area-- After Uncle Sam takes his 33% plus FICA, NYS, NYC and workman's comp and all those other bites out of your pie, you are left with about $50K...
Then you have to give up another $20-$30K in student loan payments depending on how expensive your dental education was...
And what's left ($20 to $30K) you need to spend towards living expenses, and one needs to spend at least $25K/yr to live reasonably in NYC...
Leaving just $5K to go into your savings or for discretionary/unexpected expenses (like car repairs) if you are lucky.
Hopefully after a year or two, you can increase your speed and efficiency enough to start grossing $100K or more per year so you can start saving some money towards buying into a practice or putting a down payment for that Porsche you have your eye on.
HTH!
I think $80K is pretty much the bare minimum in order to survive in the NYC area-- After Uncle Sam takes his 33% plus FICA, NYS, NYC and workman's comp and all those other bites out of your pie, you are left with about $50K...
Then you have to give up another $20-$30K in student loan payments depending on how expensive your dental education was...
And what's left ($20 to $30K) you need to spend towards living expenses, and one needs to spend at least $25K/yr to live reasonably in NYC...
Leaving just $5K to go into your savings or for discretionary/unexpected expenses (like car repairs) if you are lucky.
Hopefully after a year or two, you can increase your speed and efficiency enough to start grossing $100K or more per year so you can start saving some money towards buying into a practice or putting a down payment for that Porsche you have your eye on.
HTH!
