ASTRO has gone full woke

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Regressive in time. They pay other taxes (payroll, which stops at ~120K?, sales, property if they own it). Top tax rate has gone down remarkably since 1980. My taxes went down.

Among that radicalized (largely white) young leftist group, a big chunk just think that they are opportunity poor in today's world. When's the last time you've seen a guy graduate from high school, work for a large company, retire around 55 comfortably and go on to enjoy a good quality of life? The last guy like this is now in his early 70s.

Bill Gates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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[deleted480308]

Regressive in time. They pay other taxes (payroll, which stops at ~120K?, sales, property if they own it). Top tax rate has gone down remarkably since 1980. My taxes went down.

Among that radicalized (largely white) young leftist group, a big chunk just think that they are opportunity poor in today's world. When's the last time you've seen a guy graduate from high school, work for a large company, retire around 55 comfortably and go on to enjoy a good quality of life? The last guy like this is now in his early 70s.

So now the system has robbed someone if they don’t get to retire at 55 with a high school education? Your expectations are crazy, and taxes are still too high

 

[medgator]

So there's a point where it's not murder? In other words, where is the moment during pregnancy that the government shouldn't tell a woman what to do with or to her own body? Is it the level of grossness of the process?

Fetal viability apart from the mother. I think most would be fine with a third trimester ban on abortion, as community talked about, ~99% would still be legal under that

 

[medgator]

regressive? a huge portion of the population pays no federal income tax

The issue is really tax fairness... Preferred treatment of qualified dividends and long term capital gains, carried interest loophole etc. I think we both agree the current tax system is pretty swampy, and recent tax reform did nothing to address that aspect. Really bothered me that physicians are income limited on s-corp deduction while RE investors like 45 are not

 

[deleted480308]

The issue is really tax fairness... Preferred treatment of qualified dividends and long term capital gains, carried interest loophole etc. I think we both agree the current tax system is pretty swampy, and recent tax reform did nothing to address that aspect. Really bothered me that physicians are income limited on s-corp deduction while RE investors like 45 are not

agreed, I'm more in favor of ending all welfare, and pick a low flat rate...all income regardless of amount, no deductions,

 

[communitydoc13]

So now the system has robbed someone if they don’t get to retire at 55 with a high school education? Your expectations are crazy, and taxes are still too high

I mean not me. I'll be working past that age if I'm alive. But am I OK with the telephone pole climbing guy working from age 20-55 and then having his pension honored and retiring to a manufactured home with maybe enough money for a a jon boat at that time and not being panicked about cost of medical care? Sure. Is this unreasonable?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Why would you think I would be suggesting that? But since you mentioned it, I am not a fan of how the current president conducts himself on Twitter, and frankly it's an embarrassment and does nothing but hurt him. I have no evidence to believe that this is a result of dementia and rather think it's a result of his narcisstic personality as he has behaved consistently like this his entire life and certainly since he ever started using Twitter. However, he can engage in conversations rationally without forgetting what he's talking about and has the energy to actively campaign. Biden objectively does not. The debates are going to painful with Biden struggling to put his thoughts together and form coherent sentences and Trump's hubris causing him to fall into literally every trap that involves him being unable to admit he has any faults or is ever wrong.

Objectively? You don't just get to say objectively and make it so. There's as much objective evidence that he has dementia as there is trump. Having narcissistic personality disorder doesn't mean he can't also develop dementia. Whichever doc gave him "person, man, woman, tv, camera" was clearly concerned. When you ask a gbm patient with their whole family in the room to remember and repeat 3 words, are they "family, son, daughter?"

At least he can count on freddy Douglas for a vote.

 

[deleted480308]

I mean not me. I'll be working past that age if I'm alive. But am I OK with the telephone pole climbing guy working from age 20-55 and then having his pension honored and retiring to a manufactured home with maybe enough money for a a jon boat at that time and not being panicked about cost of medical care? Sure. Is this unreasonable?

if that deal still exists? I don't have a problem with it

but acting like society owes them something if that deal no longer exists? Nope

 

[communitydoc13]

if that deal still exists? I don't have a problem with it

but acting like society owes them something if that deal no longer exists? Nope

Why did that deal exist in the 1970s and not now?

 

[deleted480308]

Why did that deal exist in the 1970s and not now?

Maybe someone finally did the math (and now we live 10yrs longer than then) that paying someone for decades after they stop working is unsustainable or non-competitive. It doesn’t actually matter. Not everyone else’s problem. If you don’t like the option available to you learn a more marketable skill

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Why did that deal exist in the 1970s and not now?

Simple. Globalization. The elites have done well with globalization but the middle class not so much. Our best and brightest told us that if we opened up to China they would become more like us. Nope. The CCP has enriched their population and brought millions out of poverty but the benefits for the middle class in the US are non-existent. Trump knew this and motivated many that used to be diehard working-class Democrats to vote for him (many voted for Obama in 2012). The media (who benefit from globalization) labeled this as xenophobic and economic nationalism. The 56 year old son of a factory worker who had that deal previously has nowhere to go. The current Democratic party highlights wokeness (race, gender, sexual identity) not the people that built the party of Roosevelt (Franklin). If the Dems could stop talking about bathrooms they might do better.

 

[BobbyHeenan]

Why did that deal exist in the 1970s and not now?

Because we used to make stuff in the US. Globalism, automation, unskilled labor immigration, tuition explosion, completely criminal projections on pension/market returns, and institutions with an embedded growth obligation that was not sustainable.

Both sides are guilty.

Embedded Growth Obligations

theportal.wiki

 

[communitydoc13]

Simple. Globalization. The elites have done well with globalization but the middle class not so much. Our best and brightest told us that if we opened up to China they would become more like us. Nope. The CCP has enriched their population and brought millions out of poverty but the benefits for the middle class in the US are non-existent. Trump knew this and motivated many that used to be diehard working-class Democrats to vote for him (many voted for Obama in 2012). The media (who benefit from globalization) labeled this as xenophobic and economic nationalism. The 56 year old son of a factory worker who had that deal previously has nowhere to go. The current Democratic party highlights wokeness (race, gender, sexual identity) not the people that built the party of Roosevelt (Franklin). If the Dems could stop talking about bathrooms they might do better.

Maybe also some of this?

Friedman doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Maybe also some of this?

Friedman doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Sure. The elites are looking out for themselves and only themselves. I agree with Uncle Milty to let companies increase profits but I also see the government's role to tax their profits. Government shouldn't pick winners and losers but they should tax the winners.

 

[medgator]

agreed, I'm more in favor of ending all welfare, and pick a low flat rate...all income regardless of amount, no deductions,

Id be fine with that with a carve out for the first $5k or something

 

[medgator]

Simple. Globalization. The elites have done well with globalization but the middle class not so much. Our best and brightest told us that if we opened up to China they would become more like us. Nope. The CCP has enriched their population and brought millions out of poverty but the benefits for the middle class in the US are non-existent. Trump knew this and motivated many that used to be diehard working-class Democrats to vote for him (many voted for Obama in 2012). The media (who benefit from globalization) labeled this as xenophobic and economic nationalism. The 56 year old son of a factory worker who had that deal previously has nowhere to go. The current Democratic party highlights wokeness (race, gender, sexual identity) not the people that built the party of Roosevelt (Franklin). If the Dems could stop talking about bathrooms they might do better.

Populism is how he campaigned. Not how he governed

 

[deleted480308]

Id be fine with that with a carve out for the first $5k or something

No carve out, any income tax that is justifiable is worth charging on all income

 

[radOresident]

Speaking of income taxes, how many people here have paid more in federal income taxes than our (allegedly) billionaire president? I know I did! More importantly, how many people here will shout "FAKE NEWS!" and attack the credibility of his records?

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Speaking of income taxes, how many people here have paid more in federal income taxes than our (allegedly) billionaire president? I know I did! More importantly, how many people here will shout "FAKE NEWS!" and attack the credibility of his records?

Not sure what your point is. I have paid more in federal income taxes than DJT but I have not leveraged hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate transactions and lost hundreds of millions in the process. The latest NYT report is remarkable in that they provide no evidence that laws were broken and even further (as Matt Taibbi reports) "Nor do [tax records] reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia." Rest assured if any tax laws were broken the NYT would be on it. MSM keeps being outfoxed...Trump tried to hide is tax returns and the MSM "knew" that he was hiding something malevolent. In reality he seems to have been using existing laws to lower his liability. He gamed the system to be sure but many others do the same and if no laws were broken than it is a nothingburger. The only felony seems to be leaking his records. FWIW I think the guy is a narcissistic cad but no crime has been committed.

 

[radOresident]

Unless he secured his loans by overstating his income while minimizing his taxes by overstating losses? Which would be a felony and lines up with what Cohen said in his testimony under oath. Or claiming personal expenses as business expenses. Also a crime. The Manhattan DA is actively looking into whether he committed tax fraud, so it's not like this is all clearly legitimate.

Not to mention the $300+ million in personally secured debts that would be coming due in his potential second term. I have no doubts he would sell out the American people to save himself and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. There's a reason DoD doesn't give security clearance to people with large outstanding debts.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Unless he secured his loans by overstating his income while minimizing his taxes by overstating losses? Which would be a felony and lines up with what Cohen said in his testimony under oath. Or claiming personal expenses as business expenses. Also a crime. The Manhattan DA is actively looking into whether he committed tax fraud, so it's not like this is all clearly legitimate.

Not to mention the $300+ million in personally secured debts that would be coming due in his potential second term. I have no doubts he would sell out the American people to save himself and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. There's a reason DoD doesn't give security clearance to people with large outstanding debts.

We shall see. So you are relying on the testimony of Cohen? What about Avenatti? All these creeps are grifters. No question the DJT is a creep. The good news is that the Framers set up a system that could survive any *****. The finalists for 2020 are Trump and Biden (who served 180 years in the Senate). The system for choosing candidates is broken but there are enough checks and balances to ensure that this constitutional republic will perservere.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Weird I typed in M-O-R-O-N but the algorithm gave you *****. Automated censorship on SDN. Maybe time to go

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Not sure what your point is. I have paid more in federal income taxes than DJT but I have not leveraged hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate transactions and lost hundreds of millions in the process. The latest NYT report is remarkable in that they provide no evidence that laws were broken and even further (as Matt Taibbi reports) "Nor do [tax records] reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia." Rest assured if any tax laws were broken the NYT would be on it. MSM keeps being outfoxed...Trump tried to hide is tax returns and the MSM "knew" that he was hiding something malevolent. In reality he seems to have been using existing laws to lower his liability. He gamed the system to be sure but many others do the same and if no laws were broken than it is a nothingburger. The only felony seems to be leaking his records. FWIW I think the guy is a narcissistic cad but no crime has been committed.

I didn't think the story here was ever thought to be illegality. Rather, I thought the reason to get his returns out for politicking was to show his business acumen, or lack thereof, and his charitable donations, or lack thereof.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

For those who are not experts in History that rely on Twitter celebrities

 

[medgator]

For those who are not experts in History that rely on Twitter celebrities

View attachment 319244

Is it the same scenario, from what i understand the last time it was this close to an election was 1866.

Did those presidents go on to win second terms? It's a moot point if Trump wins, now if he doesn't, i doubt Dems will let 2 stolen SCOTUS seats slide

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

For those who are not experts in History that rely on Twitter celebrities

View attachment 319244

I think Alyssa Milano is technically correct as far as i can tell. In the former case, the election wasn't already underway, and in the latter, it was a recess appt, that was confirmed following the election.

Edit: Lol, I went to twitter to see others called him out on this. Nice to watch him try to explain himself. Just another blubbering twidiot. He forgot the adage, "When arguing with a fool, be sure she's not doing the same."

 

[thecarbonionangle]

WOW FOLKS!! YUGE night by the “failing new York times”. Enjoy the october surprise. CHEERS!

 

[Lamount]

Not sure what your point is. I have paid more in federal income taxes than DJT but I have not leveraged hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate transactions and lost hundreds of millions in the process. The latest NYT report is remarkable in that they provide no evidence that laws were broken and even further (as Matt Taibbi reports) "Nor do [tax records] reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia." Rest assured if any tax laws were broken the NYT would be on it. MSM keeps being outfoxed...Trump tried to hide is tax returns and the MSM "knew" that he was hiding something malevolent. In reality he seems to have been using existing laws to lower his liability. He gamed the system to be sure but many others do the same and if no laws were broken than it is a nothingburger. The only felony seems to be leaking his records. FWIW I think the guy is a narcissistic cad but no crime has been committed.

Illegality may not be the point... and I think Vance requested the records to investigate election fraud is not the point.

it looks bad for DJT for a multitude of reasons

1) It feels creepy, even if it is legal
2) He isn’t the successful business man he claimed to be. DJT would call DJT a “loser” (this one will get in his head and would be an easy line of attack for Biden)
3) It’s a significant security risk for the president to owe creditors hundreds of millions. I doubt someone with his finances could get security clearance for a government job... and I’m sure this will come up.
...outfoxed the MSM? The bar would have to be pretty low to spike the football on this one.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Illegality may not be the point... and I think Vance requested the records to investigate election fraud is not the point.

it looks bad for DJT for a multitude of reasons

1) It feels creepy, even if it is legal
2) He isn’t the successful business man he claimed to be. DJT would call DJT a “loser” (this one will get in his head and would be an easy line of attack for Biden)
3) It’s a significant security risk for the president to owe creditors hundreds of millions. I doubt someone with his finances could get security clearance for a government job... and I’m sure this will come up.
...outfoxed the MSM? The bar would have to be pretty low to spike the football on this one.

None of these are new revelations. Trump enjoying highest poll numbers ever. I thought that he was in the pocket of Putin? Let's hear the whole story. Another example of selective leaks to make him look bad? How much did he pay the 5 five years when he paid taxes?

 

[medgator]

None of these are new revelations. Trump enjoying highest poll numbers ever. I thought that he was in the pocket of Putin? Let's hear the whole story. Another example of selective leaks to make him look bad? How much did he pay the 5 five years when he paid taxes?

Right...

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Right...

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll, Sponsored by Matt Palumbo's "How the Left Hijacked and Weaponized the Fact-Checking Industry." Friday shows...

www.rasmussenreports.com

 

[Radonky]

Not sure what your point is. I have paid more in federal income taxes than DJT but I have not leveraged hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate transactions and lost hundreds of millions in the process. The latest NYT report is remarkable in that they provide no evidence that laws were broken and even further (as Matt Taibbi reports) "Nor do [tax records] reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia." Rest assured if any tax laws were broken the NYT would be on it. MSM keeps being outfoxed...Trump tried to hide is tax returns and the MSM "knew" that he was hiding something malevolent. In reality he seems to have been using existing laws to lower his liability. He gamed the system to be sure but many others do the same and if no laws were broken than it is a nothingburger. The only felony seems to be leaking his records. FWIW I think the guy is a narcissistic cad but no crime has been committed.

If you think this is about breaking the law, you are missing the point. He has stated he is an extremely successful business man, multibillionaire, promised to publish his tax records previously, called out obama for paying lower taxes etc, when he has lost millions and pays little to no taxes.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

If you think this is about breaking the law, you are missing the point. He has stated he is an extremely successful business man, multibillionaire, promised to publish his tax records previously, called out obama for paying lower taxes etc, when he has lost millions and pays little to no taxes.

Don't forget all the claims of millions in charitable donations.

 

[medgator]

If you think this is about breaking the law, you are missing the point. He has stated he is an extremely successful business man, multibillionaire, promised to publish his tax records previously, called out obama for paying lower taxes etc, when he has lost millions and pays little to no taxes.

Basic fairness issue... Grabbing deductions for haircuts on the apprentice, rental property deductions on the personal compound at seven springs etc. And then finding out this tax liability in recent years as the cherry on the top

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

If you think this is about breaking the law, you are missing the point. He has stated he is an extremely successful business man, multibillionaire, promised to publish his tax records previously, called out obama for paying lower taxes etc, when he has lost millions and pays little to no taxes.

OK. You are saying that he lies/exaggerates/prevaricates? Everyone knows this. Politicians lie for a living. Does he take to another level? Of course he does.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

So how many of you are paying for virtual ASTRO? Anybody? How are people dropping the thousands in CME? Good haircuts?

 

[radOresident]

OK. You are saying that he lies/exaggerates/prevaricates? Everyone knows this. Politicians lie for a living. Does he take to another level? Of course he does.

Except when you lie to the IRS, that's called a "crime." It remains to be seen whether these particular lies will 1) rise to the level of criminality and 2) if so, will anyone have the cajones to go after him once he leaves office?

Also, come on... Rasmussen reports as a single pollster with a known republican bias is how you verify your claim that his polls have never been higher? Not combinations of pollsters, approval ratings, general election polls, etc? Are you trying to be disingenuous?

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Except when you lie to the IRS, that's called a "crime." It remains to be seen whether these particular lies will 1) rise to the level of criminality and 2) if so, will anyone have the cajones to go after him once he leaves office?

Also, come on... Rasmussen reports as a single pollster with a known republican bias is how you verify your claim that his polls have never been higher? Not combinations of pollsters, approval ratings, general election polls, etc? Are you trying to be disingenuous?

Lying to the IRS is a crime to be sure but if the NYT had evidence for that we would know about it right?

Disingenuous, no. Just pointing out that polls should be taken with a grain of salt and that nearly all claims in this sphere can be supported by a poll somewhere. All of the very best pollsters and pundits predicted a Hillary landslide in 2016. There is undoubtedly hidden Trump support by people who decline to respond to polls or "lie" to the pollster.
Once again in 2020 we have a choice between two horrible individuals. Biden has lied his entire career (first in his class, full academic scholarship, three degrees, started at a HBCU) and after four decades as a "public servant" his accomplishments are trivial.

I blame the political scientists and social media for the marked polarization. All the Dems needed to do was nominate a sane moderate oh well. Despite all of the negative coverage the odds for a Trump victory seem higher than 2016 at this point.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Lying to the IRS is a crime to be sure but if the NYT had evidence for that we would know about it right?

Disingenuous, no. Just pointing out that polls should be taken with a grain of salt and that nearly all claims in this sphere can be supported by a poll somewhere. All of the very best pollsters and pundits predicted a Hillary landslide in 2016. There is undoubtedly hidden Trump support by people who decline to respond to polls or "lie" to the pollster.
Once again in 2020 we have a choice between two horrible individuals. Biden has lied his entire career (first in his class, full academic scholarship, three degrees, started at a HBCU) and after four decades as a "public servant" his accomplishments are trivial.

I blame the political scientists and social media for the marked polarization. All the Dems needed to do was nominate a sane moderate oh well. Despite all of the negative coverage the odds for a Trump victory seem higher than 2016 at this point.

i am curious who on stage you would have considered a “sane moderate”? Hickenlooper?

 

[KHE88]

The Steele dossier was much more entertaining in terms of an unverifiable smear campaign published by a non-objective news source with no credibility. This claims nothing (besides noting that no laws were broken) that wasn't already known about the man. He is tasteless with bad hair, spends his own money extravagantly, and takes on risky investments that he famously has lost a lot of money at. Nobody voted for him for his reserved demeanor or superlative moral character. By all means, keep focusing on trying to assassinate the character of someone who never was lauded for his character to begin with rather than debating his pro-America ideology (which basically stops at dismissing it all as white supremacism and labelling half the country irredeemable bigots). Makes sense though. Good luck.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

i am curious who on stage you would have considered a “sane moderate”? Hickenlooper?

Klobuchar, Bennett, Bullock

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Klobuchar, Bennett, Bullock

I think if Bullock wins the senate and gets some more visibility he could be a pretty interesting guy down the line. Bennet was obscure for most people and has low charisma and Klobuchar for whatever reason just did poorly, and had low minority support.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Alright, well we had a good run. SDN is not for political discussion, and this has gone sufficiently off-topic (remember that on-topic discussion of Kendi and critical race theory pros/cons) with discussion of generalized politics, including trump's taxes, a few pages on abortion, supreme court nomination, etc.

Those who have devolved this thread into a political discussion over the weekend, again, please find something better to do with your time. New threads started purely to discuss politics with no connection to Rad Onc in this forum will be deleted and warnings handed out. Take it to Reddit or wherever else people go to argue politics wiht one another.