At what point do I get a recruiter?

[lobstar]

---

Members don't see this ad.

This is more a frustration post than anything, but the job search is not fun. I'm just looking for something within the 50-75th MGMA percentile without major strings attached. Find one job that seems reasonable and later find out, oh surprise, there's twice weekly call baked into the offer. Find another and surprise, here's 2 APPs to eat the liability for. Another has good pay, not terrible call, but then, oh by the way, we're really short-staffed so you'll probably have 20-25 ppd to cover for other docs/APPs routinely. And we have no interest in an RVU bonus or patient cap with extra pay if you are in fact working 1.5 FTEs or more.

Do I just get a recruiter at some point? Maybe you all can set my expectations better. I'm looking at inpatient, outpatient, ED, CL, whatever. I just thought paid call, 50th (or better) percentile MGMA by RVU, or 50th MGMA by salary without all this unpaid cross-covering for major staffing shortages, APP supervision, we won't remove the required 50k signing bonus forgivable loan 24 month handcuff--even if I don't want the money since I don't want the liability of paying it back when the job sucks. I'm am region locked, but not state locked.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant lol

 

[FlowRate]

What region?

The sort of recruiters you're channeling are going to offer you jobs that are as-bad or worse than you describe. Maybe with decent pay.

But you're sorta expecting above-average everything, which isn't something you're likely to find just posted somewhere. People who can offer something like that know they can just work their network to find quality candidates. If you're willing to flex a little on pay, you can probably find something that meets all of your other criteria.

 

[littlefred]

What's the MGMA salary range anyway?

 

[lobstar]

I'm south/southeast the rumors I hear for median are 300/low 300s and 70/RVU.

 

[Stagg737]

What sources are you using to look for jobs? You should be able to find a decent position for $300-350k easily. If you’re willing to do OP then call some clinics in cities you’re interested in and ask if they’re hiring or have space. May take a year to build your panel but you should be able to clear $300k easily without call or supervision seeing 30/60 minutes for f/ups/new.

 

[Sushirolls]

No recruiters.

Adapt, and endure the headache.

 

[rjs2131]

This is more a frustration post than anything, but the job search is not fun. I'm just looking for something within the 50-75th MGMA percentile without major strings attached. Find one job that seems reasonable and later find out, oh surprise, there's twice weekly call baked into the offer. Find another and surprise, here's 2 APPs to eat the liability for. Another has good pay, not terrible call, but then, oh by the way, we're really short-staffed so you'll probably have 20-25 ppd to cover for other docs/APPs routinely. And we have no interest in an RVU bonus or patient cap with extra pay if you are in fact working 1.5 FTEs or more.

Do I just get a recruiter at some point? Maybe you all can set my expectations better. I'm looking at inpatient, outpatient, ED, CL, whatever. I just thought paid call, 50th (or better) percentile MGMA by RVU, or 50th MGMA by salary without all this unpaid cross-covering for major staffing shortages, APP supervision, we won't remove the required 50k signing bonus forgivable loan 24 month handcuff--even if I don't want the money since I don't want the liability of paying it back when the job sucks. I'm am region locked, but not state locked.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant lol

Agree with others, not sure a recruiter is going to be particularly helpful (their goal is to have you sign a contract so they get paid, some are better than others but doubt you'll find an above average opportunity this way). If you're open to anything and would enjoy outpatient work long-term, look into joining a group PP. You'll have much more flexibility and earning potential, and you can always moonlight/do other work on the side if you miss it. Downside would be sacrificing 1-2 years of higher pay early on but absolutely worth it in the long run if you enjoy outpatient.

 

[comp1]

Goodness, no recruiters. The reason they are employed is to fill horrible jobs like you are already finding on your own or honestly much worse ones since stuff like supervising 2 NPs is quite normal. For your search, the federal government is required to offer the average salary in a region and do research to prove it is in fact the average. They typically don't offer "paid call" as in paid per shift due to Title 38 rules for physicians, but the salary calculation must include call if it is required. Also if liability is a focus, I'm fairly sure there's no place to work where your risk is less. USAJOBS - The Federal Government's official employment site

 

[FlowRate]

I'm south/southeast the rumors I hear for median are 300/low 300s and 70/RVU.

There's a GA region of Kaiser Permanente. I don't know as many details about that region as I do some of the others. But, generally, PMG's aren't going to have you supervising midlevels, either won't have call or will have very reasonable call, won't have you doing particularly high patients per day, and will pay roughly MGMA median for region with a very good benefits package.

 

[brosa]

Goodness, no recruiters. The reason they are employed is to fill horrible jobs like you are already finding on your own or honestly much worse ones since stuff like supervising 2 NPs is quite normal. For your search, the federal government is required to offer the average salary in a region and do research to prove it is in fact the average. They typically don't offer "paid call" as in paid per shift due to Title 38 rules for physicians, but the salary calculation must include call if it is required. Also if liability is a focus, I'm fairly sure there's no place to work where your risk is less. USAJOBS - The Federal Government's official employment site

I'm not sure if this is just around me or in the whole nation, but the no VAs here are hiring. I talked to the recruiter last week. There is the need but no budget to hire right now.

 

[tr]

Goodness, no recruiters. The reason they are employed is to fill horrible jobs like you are already finding on your own or honestly much worse ones since stuff like supervising 2 NPs is quite normal. For your search, the federal government is required to offer the average salary in a region and do research to prove it is in fact the average. They typically don't offer "paid call" as in paid per shift due to Title 38 rules for physicians, but the salary calculation must include call if it is required. Also if liability is a focus, I'm fairly sure there's no place to work where your risk is less. USAJOBS - The Federal Government's official employment site

To add to this, once your phone number gets into their hands they will NEVER stop texting you with crappy job offers. Never. And even after you block them, they will have already shared it with all their little recruiter friends and they will text you too.

Ask me how I know.

 

[comp1]

The VA is hiring. There's a bit of a frost right now and as always a lot depends on elections, but the VA is hiring. If there's a job posting, submit your CV.

 

[lobstar]

Thanks, everyone! I'm going to go down the VA route. There's postings in my area and I'm feeling optimistic.

 

[splik]

I would use your professional network to find the best openings. Other than that, I recommend LinkedIn and Indeed to find jobs in your area. If you are looking for government jobs (GovernmentJobs | City, State, Federal & Public Sector Jobs) is pretty good, federal jobs (USAJOBS - The Federal Government's official employment site), academic jobs (Higher Ed Jobs - Higher Education Recruitment Consortium). There's also the APA's job thing (https://jobs.psychiatry.org/). And don't feel shy about contacting clinics, hospitals, private practices near you and letting them know you are looking for something. The fact is the best jobs usually don't have to advertise so hard to recruit (and in some cases the ads maybe a sham to fulfill HR requirements when they already have a candidate).

Also while you can be contacted by a lot of useless recruiters etc on LinkedIn I have to say I have got some pretty good opportunities on there and just ignore the spam messages.

There are a lot of shîtty jobs out there so you do have to wade through a lot of crap to find a gem. Remember 50% of jobs pay below the median!

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

your best bet may be a hospital based job who uses their own in house recruiters. Generally the jobs are reasonable, because they make money through other services and the psychiatry aspect is more about access to care/referral system than profit.

private practice for private clinic likely going to be high patients per day with midlevel supervision

community psych you see the sicker people, call is required at some, and others not so much, but you may be able to bargain more for what you want in terms of pt hours/call/etc since they typically struggle hiring people

sometimes recruiters are useful because they do have some good jobs. The issue is 85% of the jobs they peddle are **** jobs, or decent/good jobs in an undesireable location

Every one of them trys to get you to call them to ask the same questions, they used to drive me nuts.

 

[brosa]

To add to this, once your phone number gets into their hands they will NEVER stop texting you with crappy job offers. Never. And even after you block them, they will have already shared it with all their little recruiter friends and they will text you too.

Ask me how I know.

I am having a very different experience. I have called and messaged multiple recruiters, and I do not get messages with crappy job offers, although I do get emails. I probably receive 1-3 emails a week, but they are all bad offers. Around 30% of them are in California, the rest are in places no one has ever heard off, and with crazy stuff like call 1:4 and paying 250k lol

I am actually the one running after the recruiters lately.

 

[lobstar]

I would use your professional network to find the best openings. Other than that, I recommend LinkedIn and Indeed to find jobs in your area. If you are looking for government jobs (GovernmentJobs | City, State, Federal & Public Sector Jobs) is pretty good, federal jobs (USAJOBS - The Federal Government's official employment site), academic jobs (Higher Ed Jobs - Higher Education Recruitment Consortium). There's also the APA's job thing (https://jobs.psychiatry.org/). And don't feel shy about contacting clinics, hospitals, private practices near you and letting them know you are looking for something. The fact is the best jobs usually don't have to advertise so hard to recruit (and in some cases the ads maybe a sham to fulfill HR requirements when they already have a candidate).

Also while you can be contacted by a lot of useless recruiters etc on LinkedIn I have to say I have got some pretty good opportunities on there and just ignore the spam messages.

There are a lot of shîtty jobs out there so you do have to wade through a lot of crap to find a gem. Remember 50% of jobs pay below the median!

This is good stuff. I actually didn't know the academic site existed.

 

[Stagg737]

I am having a very different experience. I have called and messaged multiple recruiters, and I do not get messages with crappy job offers, although I do get emails. I probably receive 1-3 emails a week, but they are all bad offers. Around 30% of them are in California, the rest are in places no one has ever heard off, and with crazy stuff like call 1:4 and paying 250k lol

I am actually the one running after the recruiters lately.

You need to find different recruiters then. I get sent mostly positions throughout the midwest, SE, and NE areas with the occasional Texas and west coast position sprinkled in here and there. Most of the positions I get sent don't have pay in the listings, but they do give me enough info that I could figure out the hospital/clinic they're talking about and contact those employers directly myself if I wanted to.

The fact is the best jobs usually don't have to advertise so hard to recruit (and in some cases the ads maybe a sham to fulfill HR requirements when they already have a candidate).

This is unfortunately quite common with academic postings thanks to listing requirements. I looked into several positions where I was told the listing was just a formality and had already been filled. I'll say the same actually happened with my current position where I took over an opening and then someone applied and accepted a different position.

 

[brosa]

You need to find different recruiters then. I get sent mostly positions throughout the midwest, SE, and NE areas with the occasional Texas and west coast position sprinkled in here and there. Most of the positions I get sent don't have pay in the listings, but they do give me enough info that I could figure out the hospital/clinic they're talking about and contact those employers directly myself if I wanted to.


This is unfortunately quite common with academic postings thanks to listing requirements. I looked into several positions where I was told the listing was just a formality and had already been filled. I'll say the same actually happened with my current position where I took over an opening and then someone applied and accepted a different position.

For me biggest issue is that I can't relocate right now and most recruiters don't have remote positions. The average around my city seems lower than other places, and that has been everyone experience around here. I did saw great offers at other places, recently saw a very interesting one in Alabama. Around here, I was expecting 300k, 4 weeks off, absence of non compete and no supervising NPs, but no one is finding that. Every job you lose one or more items. My co residents are experiencing the same thing and it has been actually quite sad to see that. Everyone thought we were going to join a great market.

I honestly feel the need to share my reality because part of what made me have a hard time accepting the offers around here is that online, everyone seems to be making 500k with infinite job options. Seems it is very dependent on the local.

PS: btw, I will be leaving the city in the next few years, no point of just being unhappy with the jobs here and not doing anything about it. I am sure I will be doing fairly well, and I don't think Psych is fully saturated nation wide or anything like that. I am writing that more for med students.

 

[Merovinge]

For me biggest issue is that I can't relocate right now and most recruiters don't have remote positions. The average around my city seems lower than other places, and that has been everyone experience around here. I did saw great offers at other places, recently saw a very interesting one in Alabama. Around here, I was expecting 300k, 4 weeks off, absence of non compete and no supervising NPs, but no one is finding that. Every job you lose one or more items. My co residents are experiencing the same thing and it has been actually quite sad to see that. Everyone thought we were going to join a great market.

I honestly feel the need to share my reality because part of what made me have a hard time accepting the offers around here is that online, everyone seems to be making 500k with infinite job options. Seems it is very dependent on the local.

PS: btw, I will be leaving the city in the next few years, no point of just being unhappy with the jobs here and not doing anything about it. I am sure I will be doing fairly well, and I don't think Psych is fully saturated nation wide or anything like that. I am writing that more for med students.

Funny that is pretty close to exactly what my organization offers. Best of luck when you move, I do still find most folks being relatively pleased with the market, but you certainly have more worth/options after a few years of being an attending.