At what point does a high MCAT score not make up for a low GPA?

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Fridko said:
What the consensus? Is there hope for a GPA less than 3.0?
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No, and it is just as unlikely that you will obtain a 40+ MCAT with said GPA unless it has been some years since you were in college. If that is the case, low GPA's are much more often forgiven in light of MCAT score and current achievements.
 
Bacchus said:
I wouldn't say there is a lot of hope for anything below a 3.4 and a high MCAT score, to be honest.
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If you are traditional student, and if you can pull a 40+, I think you will at least get an interview. Adcoms will probably be curious how you can pull that off with a low GPA.
 
3.0's the hard cut-off at most schools as far as I can tell. So it probably doesn't matter if you have a 43 MCAT if you have a 2.9 GPA.

3.4 isn't the greatest cut-off either because both my cGPA and sGPA were below that mark, I had a 35, and my non-URM application got accepted to 4 schools this cycle.

I say there's a sliding scale but no significant hard cut-offs as long as you're above 3.0. But there is only so much a high MCAT score can do for you if you don't have the ECs and LORs to back you up. Poor marks in one aspect of your application will hurt a lot, but poor marks in more than one aspect can be the kiss of death. That's just how I see it.
 
Bacchus said:
I wouldn't say there is a lot of hope for anything below a 3.4 and a high MCAT score, to be honest.
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I respectfully disagree. I know several people with GPA's below that and solid MCAT's like 31-33 with multiple acceptances and interviews. This was at both their state schools and private schools. This is certainly not the ideal way to apply, but there is some hope if the person applies intelligently and has solid extracurricular activites.

As for under a 3.0, that is a whole different situation. You have very little chance of getting in under these circumstances and would be wise to spend some time taking classes to bring up your grades.
 
I think the only redemption would be if your low GPA is due to fresman year follies. If you have had a consistently low or even declining trend then you are probably out of luck. But hey, if you want to spend a couple of grand on application fees, go right ahead.

There is always chiropractic...they accept lower GPAs.

My advice would be to try to get a job in a field that you enjoy. Maybe consider grad school. It is not the end of your life, nor does it mean that you can't be successful in life. Good luck buddy.
 
I know my cut off was a bit high, but we also have to be honest with ourselves. More than likely, if you have a low GPA, you won't be doing exceptionally well on the MCAT. There are always exceptions, I agree, and I love when underdogs do their thing, but admissions is getting more difficult as time goes on. I thought I'd at least get a bite from an MD school this cycle but no dice. That said, OP if you do well on the MCAT then you might as well try, by applying smartly.

Sub 3.0, however, don't think about it.
 
Bacchus said:
I know my cut off was a bit high, but we also have to be honest with ourselves. More than likely, if you have a low GPA, you won't be doing exceptionally well on the MCAT. There are always exceptions, I agree, and I love when underdogs do their thing, but admissions is getting more difficult as time goes on. I thought I'd at least get a bite from an MD school this cycle but no dice. That said, OP if you do well on the MCAT then you might as well try, by applying smartly.

Sub 3.0, however, don't think about it.
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Depends where the GPA's at. An engineering major at MIT or Cornell with a 3.3 is probably more likely to break 40 on the MCAT than a 4.0 biology major at a low-quality state school.
 
Bacchus said:
I know my cut off was a bit high, but we also have to be honest with ourselves. More than likely, if you have a low GPA, you won't be doing exceptionally well on the MCAT. There are always exceptions, I agree, and I love when underdogs do their thing, but admissions is getting more difficult as time goes on. I thought I'd at least get a bite from an MD school this cycle but no dice. That said, OP if you do well on the MCAT then you might as well try, by applying smartly.

Sub 3.0, however, don't think about it.
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Your example doesn't really apply to this situation, as I am sure you know. Anyway, does someone have the link to that chart with the %'s of accepted people based on their GPA and MCAT? That would be very useful here, I'm surprised I didn't think of it previously.
 
The likelihood of anyone breaking a 40 is pretty darn low. The MCAT will equalize those two applicants. However, if the biology major makes a 33-35 and the MIT'er say a bit higher (36, 37), there won't be a clear cut decision.
 
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

According to this we all may be a little wrong with the sub 3.0

It says that a person with a GPA between 2.8-2.99 with an MCAT score between 33 and 35 has a 27.4% chance of getting in. For an MCAT score between 36 and 38 they have a 38.6% chance of getting in and for an MCAT score above 39 they would have a 54.2% chance of getting in. That is much higher than I would have expected. Though bacchus is right in saying that acheiving these scores are much less likely for the person with lower grades (according to the number of applicants in the chart above).
 
I think it really depends on the details of the low GPA.

A straight 4 years of 2.8-3.4 is a lot different than a 2.8-3.4 with a strong upward trend. A high MCAT (~34+) adds strong support to a low GPA with an upward trend, as it speaks to academic/intellectual ability and corroborates an applicants performance in recent coursework.

I'm in this position myself, and I'm basing my opinion on the feedback I received from the DOA at my state school...
 
genswim24 said:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

According to this we all may be a little wrong with the sub 3.0

It says that a person with a GPA between 2.8-2.99 with an MCAT score between 33 and 35 has a 27.4% chance of getting in. For an MCAT score between 36 and 38 they have a 38.6% chance of getting in and for an MCAT score above 39 they would have a 54.2% chance of getting in. That is much higher than I would have expected. Though bacchus is right in saying that acheiving these scores are much less likely for the person with lower grades (according to the number of applicants in the chart above).
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lol but it still proves the point how unlikely this is. The 36-38 with a 2.8-2.99 has 83 applicants in it out of 115,000. (Less than 1/10th of 1% of applicants)
 
Cadams1 said:
lol but it still proves the point how unlikely this is. The 36-38 with a 2.8-2.99 has 83 applicants in it out of 115,000. (Less than 1/10th of 1% of applicants)
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oh yeah, I completely agree that it's very unlikely. There was a guy around here a while ago who had that GPA with a 40+. I can't remember what his name is now though
 
I had a really low GPA in undergrad, but I brought it up with a year's worth of undergraduate pre-reqs I was missing. I have a high MCAT, but it's definitely doable (I just got my first acceptance).

My only advice is take a year off to take meaningful classes (ie. biology, chemistry, physiology, anatomy, etc.), work your ass off to make As, and apply the summer after. This means, if you get in the first time around, you will only start medical 2 years from now, but if you really want to be a doctor, then it is worth it!
Good luck, and don't listen to the more cynical advice on here. It is doable!
 
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There are a lot of variables. One is if there is an upward trend in the GPA that started when you figured out what you wanted to do in life, another is the difficulty of your courseload, for instance if you were an engineering major at MIT or Caltech or Berkeley which is obviously a hell of a lot tougher than pretty much anything else, especially some American Studies major at a state school, or if you took a lot of tough classes versus someone else who took as much fluff as possible.

GPA is just a number and doesn't tell much of a story on its own, and they know this. If the MCAT isn't anything special, then they'll probably treat the low GPA as the number that it is and pass judgment on you. If the MCAT is excellent, then they'll take a closer look at your GPA and try to figure out what happened there. Of course, some of them will be ruthless and just throw your application out the moment they see the GPA, so your chances are still decreased.
 
milkmanal had a 3ish right? im sure there are a few others.

and i dont think mcat alone can save anyone... you have to have other things going for you to make it work.

OP: you don't want to be under a 3.3 (B+), imho, but it is doable depending on your mcat, EC, lors, essays, the competitiveness of the school you apply to, your potential as a developmental admit, legacy status, connections with the dean, you get my point.. it's a loooooong shot but it happens.
 
Fridko said:
What the consensus? Is there hope for a GPA less than 3.0?
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There is no "sliding scale" system whereby if you have X GPA you need Y MCAT and vice versa. Med schools expect you to have done well in both AND in the non-numerical things. There are schools getting 10,000 applications for 150 seats. They can and do expect competitive stats in everything. If you have a low GPA, you fix it by taking ug and postbac courses that raise the GPA. You don't try to make it up with something else. Sorry, but that's not the way things work. I think the confusion out there is caused by (1) the one or two schools that invite people for interviews based on very high MCAT, and (2) the "LizzyM" score thrown around on SDN. But the former school(s) still won't take you if your GPA sux, and the LizzyM score was meant to be a rough, back of the envelope, gauge of whether you are numerically competitive -- few or no schools actually use such calculation.

It is silly to look at the AAMC data for the one outlier with unusual numbers. That person very likey had a hook to get themselves into med school that you cannot hope to duplicate. They didn't simply apply with low stats and get interviews. If you have a blemish with your application, you need to take the time to fix it. It's not rocket science. You get your ducks in a row and THEN pull the trigger. You don't hope to get some absurdly high MCAT to get folks to "overlook" something else in your app. They won't because there are too many applicants in the applicant pol that have it all.
 
Law2Doc said:
There is no "sliding scale" system whereby if you have X GPA you need Y MCAT and vice versa. Med schools expect you to have done well in both AND in the non-numerical things. There are schools getting 10,000 applications for 150 seats. They can and do expect competitive stats in everything. If you have a low GPA, you fix it by taking ug and postbac courses that raise the GPA. You don't try to make it up with something else. Sorry, but that's not the way things work. I think the confusion out there is caused by (1) the one or two schools that invite people for interviews based on very high MCAT, and (2) the "LizzyM" score thrown around on SDN. But the former school(s) still won't take you if your GPA sux, and the LizzyM score was meant to be a rough, back of the envelope, gauge of whether you are numerically competitive -- few or no schools actually use such calculation.

It is silly to look at the AAMC data for the one outlier with unusual numbers. That person very likey had a hook to get themselves into med school that you cannot hope to duplicate. They didn't simply apply with low stats and get interviews. If you have a blemish with your application, you need to take the time to fix it. It's not rocket science. You get your ducks in a row and THEN pull the trigger. You don't hope to get some absurdly high MCAT to get folks to "overlook" something else in your app. They won't because there are too many applicants in the applicant pol that have it all.
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Unfortunately, depending on individual circumstances, it is not always possible to get your ducks in a row.

My GPA duck will always be a little off track. I could spend the next three years taking post bacc classes and things would still be out of line, sometimes you just have to go with what you've got.

For an applicant with a low GPA, a high MCAT can buy you those precious extra 30 seconds for someone to look a little closer at your application. Does it make up for a low GPA? No. But it adds deminsion to an application and can put you a big step further towards proving you can handle the rigor of medical school.
 
This is the SDN low GPA thread, it's full of stories about how people with low GPAs (including those with less than a 3.0) got into medical school. Generally it is not possible to go directly to medical school with a sub 3.0 GPA regardless of how high your MCAT is, though with a high enough MCAT and a broad application to DO schools you might have an outside shot. However a high MCAT does open the door to programs called SMPs (special masters programs) designed to improve your application to the point where you can get admitted to medical school only a year late, rather than the several years it would take to get your GPA up to a respectable level. If you're interested, start research programs today because the application deadlines to start this fall are generally in mid April. Finally the high MCAT would probably get you a seat at a top 4 caribbean school, which is not an option available to everyone and something you should seriously weight the benifits (start right away, finish in 3 years) and risks (lots of people fail out and fail to match) of. High MCAT meaning a 34+, BTW, not a 40. 40 is crazy.

But, as previous posters have mentioned, the first trick is getting the high GPA. Generally a high GPA correlates to a high MCAT and vice versa. Once you've bucked that trend, then you can start worrying about your options. Until then, focus on the MCAT.

Also, don't let people like this:

There are schools getting 10,000 applications for 150 seats. They can and do expect competitive stats in everything.
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scare you too much. The truth is, there are about 3 applicants for every seat (total AMCAS applications/# seats available). The numbers of apps that schools get are crazy inflated because people apply to 25 schools. And once you get there you will find not everyone there has a 3.7 and a 30 on the MCAT. Heck, there are schools where the average matriculant is no where close to that. The last post on that low GPA thread was someone who got in with a 3.1 and a 29 on the MCAT with no SMP. I'm not saying you don't have some work to do with a sub 3.0 GPA, but don't think it's impossible or that a high MCAT won't seriously reduce the amount you need to improve the rest of your app.

Also finally, I hope this is for you and not just idle curiosity about other people's misery. Edit: unfortunately I just realized your only other post was selling a DAT book, so I'm guessing you're a troll. Well, hopefully this will hep someone else anyway.
 
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I love the logic of SDNers:

Hmm, I have a 2.8 GPA. That sucks for getting into med school, right? OK, I'll get a killer MCAT. (goes on SDN and asks how high it needs to be.) Awesome, so I'll get a 42. Problem solved. (Goes to bookstore and buys MCAT prep books.)

Med school, here I come!!!
 
What happens in the past is NOT a predictor for the future especially in medical school admissions. I have heard stories of people winning the lottery for $300 million but it's likely not going to happen to you so don't count on it.

Most medical school look at the entire application and some schools have an automatic uGPA cutoff (even if you have the Nobel Prize and a 42 MCAT). Some will be flexible on the academic number but flexibility only goes so far.

If your uGPA is under 3.0, it is unlikely that you are going to get into allopathic medical school without some significant (read almost a completely new bachelor's degree) post bacc work. Your numbers go up faster under the osteopathic system but bottom line, you need to have both a strong uGPA and MCAT score. To think otherwise based on "what you hear" is not showing sound judgement.
 
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