Atlantic Article: Middle School Failure, Med School Success?

[LauraJo08]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...ad-to-medical-school-success/274163/#comments

This article in the Atlantic today compares the tiger parent/I won't let my child fail problem among American teenagers and burnout among medical students. What do yall think?

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[Temerit]

Damnit, I did well in middle school. I'm screwed.

 

[Gut Shot]

Damnit, I did well in middle school. I'm screwed.

But did you do well because 1.) you're smart and worked hard, 2.) your middle school handed out A's like candy, or 3.) your parents harassed your teachers into inflating your grades?

 

[Temerit]

Probably a mixture of 1&2, to my knowledge my parents never said anything to teachers about my grades ever.

My UG is very tough though, so I've experienced a good amount of failure, probably in the realm of what this article is talking about. Still motivated though and thrilled about the potential of a future as a physician.

 

[IncognitoGuy]

I feel like this could be easily applied to high school and college as well. What matters is developing work ethic and drive that is rooted within, as opposed to superficial or irrelevant goals imposed by others. Though this happening in middle school would probably help more than, say your junior year of college.

Also reminds me of this quote by Alain de Botton:

One of the interesting things about success is that we think we know what it means. A lot of the time our ideas about what it would mean to live successfully are not our own. They're sucked in from other people. And we also suck in messages from everything from the television to advertising to marketing, etcetera. These are hugely powerful forces that define what we want and how we view ourselves. What I want to argue for is not that we should give up on our ideas of success, but that we should make sure that they are our own. We should focus in on our ideas and make sure that we own them, that we're truly the authors of our own ambitions. Because it's bad enough not getting what you want, but it's even worse to have an idea of what it is you want and find out at the end of the journey that it isn't, in fact, what you wanted all along.

 

[Erakis]

Very well written article.

I'm a high school dropout, so I'm just happy to be going to medical school.

 

[487806]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...ad-to-medical-school-success/274163/#comments

This article in the Atlantic today compares the tiger parent/I won't let my child fail problem among American teenagers and burnout among medical students. What do yall think?

I was a radical.and got a lot of detentions in middle school... Which is deemed irrelevant and useless by my good record in high school and beyond

 

[Tots]

I did mediocre in middle school(and most of high school). Yeessssssssss.

 

[einstein1990]

That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Narmerguy]

I failed multiple classes in middle school and was pretty much a frustration for all my teachers. Good times (not really).

As much as I appreciate the topic and believe it's worth reemphasizing, I feel like I've read some article about how failure is the key to kids' success in the Times, Washington Post, Atlantic, ABC News, etc etc every single year. I definitely agree though, parents need to let their kids fail in a big way and force them to learn how to self-diagnose and figure out a way through their problems.

It's probably ironic that the same parents that now obsessively helicopter over their kids to help them around every obstacle will soon be frantically trying to figure out how best to shove them through every barrier imaginable to turn them into little warriors.

 

[KnuxNole]

I failed multiple classes in middle school and was pretty much a frustration for all my teachers. Good times (not really).

As much as I appreciate the topic and believe it's worth reemphasizing, I feel like I've read some article about how failure is the key to kids' success in the Times, Washington Post, Atlantic, ABC News, etc etc every single year. I definitely agree though, parents need to let their kids fail in a big way and force them to learn how to self-diagnose and figure out a way through their problems.

It's probably ironic that the same parents that now obsessively helicopter over their kids to help them around every obstacle will soon be frantically trying to figure out how best to shove them through every barrier imaginable to turn them into little warriors.

It's interesting because although they have good intentions, the child has to learn how to stand on their own two feet and learn how to tackle challenges. Failure(or low performance) is something everyone experiences(beyond just school)...yet some parents don't want their kids to ever feel that way. See: effort trophies.

Some of these kids grow up to be pre-meds who go to professors and say "I showed up everyday, why didn't I get an A?"

 

[chemsmith]

I was just not interested in school in middle school and most of high school. Didn't love academics until college. Being taught by people who actually know their **** does great things

 

[goofball]

I didn't have "helicopter" or "tiger" or whatever parents. In fact, quite the opposite. My parents largely left me to my own devices in terms of school. Maybe too much.

Public schools failed me. I wandered through middle and high school in a daze of boredom because everything was so easy.

I suffered at first in college because it wasn't a complete joke like our public K-12 school system is. But I eventually was able to motivate myself to succeed, and well, now I'm going to med school.

I guess maybe that means I'll be successful, as far as this article is concerned.


But there's an issue I had with the article.

These are the students who, years later, say they have been through a lot in medical school but still want to change the world one patient at a time.

This is the most naive and stupid thing I've read in a good few years, and I can't believe that doctors are saying it. Is there any evidence to suggest that someone can "change the world," let alone do it "one patient at a time"? Why would any self-respecting physician cling to such brassy, unbridled idealism that you would only expect from a 18yo premed?

 

[Gut Shot]

This is the most naive and stupid thing I've read in a good few years, and I can't believe that doctors are saying it. Is there any evidence to suggest that someone can "change the world," let alone do it "one patient at a time"? Why would any self-respecting physician cling to such brassy, unbridled idealism that you would only expect from a 18yo premed?

Always interesting to see someone who has yet to matriculate hurling such labels.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

This is the most naive and stupid thing I've read in a good few years, and I can't believe that doctors are saying it. Is there any evidence to suggest that someone can "change the world," let alone do it "one patient at a time"? Why would any self-respecting physician cling to such brassy, unbridled idealism that you would only expect from a 18yo premed?

uh what evidence would you want exactly?

Damn man good old SDN where even the premeds are cynical.

 

[goofball]

Always interesting to see someone who has yet to matriculate hurling such labels.

Sorry, my past experiences have given me a pathological hatred of idealists. No offense meant.

 

[KnuxNole]

uh what evidence would you want exactly?

Damn man good old SDN where even the premeds are cynical.

In a few years, it'll travel to hSDN!

 

[Gut Shot]

Sorry, my past experiences have given me a pathological hatred of idealists. No offense meant.

No worries. My past experiences suggest that your foray into medicine will not end well.

 

[goofball]

No worries. My past experiences suggest that your foray into medicine will not end well.

Haha, well damn, that's a pretty strong statement to make.

What exactly do you mean by "not end well"? Because if "not end well" means "Family Practice residency in flyover country," I can live with that.


Unless you meant something worse, but I don't think a physician of all people would wish that sort of misfortune on a stranger.

 

[Gut Shot]

What exactly do you mean by "not end well"? Because if "not end well" means "Family Practice residency in flyover country," I can live with that.

I would never consider training in primary care in a less desirable part of the country to be an insult.

Suffice to say they don't give an award to the med student who becomes the most jaded prick in the shortest amount of time. Well, actually I guess they do. It's called a lifetime of misery.

Idealism may be defined as the cherishing or pursuit of high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc. Remembering this pursuit can offer protection when you are overworked, underpaid, and your noncompliant patients are dying inside a deeply screwed up health care system. It's not something you cast off in disgust before your ship even leaves port.

Don't look at residents as role models. They are truly in the pits during that phase of their lives, and their attitudes reflect it. Look at individuals who have been in practice for a while, there you can see a divergence between those who have maintained or reconstituted some idealism and those who haven't. I would much rather be in the former camp than the latter.

Unless you meant something worse, but I don't think a physician of all people would wish that sort of misfortune on a stranger.

It's not a wish, just an observation.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

I was just not interested in school in middle school and most of high school. Didn't love academics until college. Being taught by people who actually know their **** does great things

So true. Ask a question about a subject that goes beyond the material when you're in K-12 and the answer you'll get back from a teacher is "I don't know". Ask a professor the same thing and you'll get a nice hour long chat in their office. I loved that about college.

Anyway, I'd have to agree with the article. I always noticed the kids with overbearing parents were neurotic as hell, even in high school. Meanwhile I was an extremely apathetic kid in K-12 and it was only when I came close to failing every class I had in junior year of high school that I started getting serious about academics. When I got to college I was entirely self-motivated, mostly thanks to those past experiences.

 

[nysegop]

My high school GPA is much lower than my college GPA. Fun fact. I was very lazy as a freshman and sophomore in HS.

 

[syoung]

I would never consider training in primary care in a less desirable part of the country to be an insult.

Suffice to say they don't give an award to the med student who becomes the most jaded prick in the shortest amount of time. Well, actually I guess they do. It's called a lifetime of misery.

Idealism may be defined as the cherishing or pursuit of high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc. Remembering this pursuit can offer protection when you are overworked, underpaid, and your noncompliant patients are dying inside a deeply screwed up health care system. It's not something you cast off in disgust before your ship even leaves port.

Don't look at residents as role models. They are truly in the pits during that phase of their lives, and their attitudes reflect it. Look at individuals who have been in practice for a while, there you can see a divergence between those who have maintained or reconstituted some idealism and those who haven't. I would much rather be in the former camp than the latter.



It's not a wish, just an observation.

I like this!

 

[Narmerguy]

uh what evidence would you want exactly?

Damn man good old SDN where even the premeds are cynical.

Bro it's rough here.

 

[mmmmd]

Makes me thankful for my parents... I could get straight C's and become a bus driver and they would love me just as much.

 

[einstein1990]

Makes me thankful for my parents... I could get straight C's and become a bus driver and they would love me just as much.

Same.

Anyways, I don't think the main point was that you HAVE to fail to do well. At least that's not what I'm taking away from it if it was. Being your own motivator is an extremely powerful thing, and the article addresses the importance of this. If you're only doing things for external rewards (grades, parents approval, money, etc.) then you're in trouble no matter what you do with your life.