Attendings -- how many hours a week do you work?

[erg923]

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You just say that because you're a person who enjoys having a self-actualizing career.

Social psychology would dictate that you do too.

Hashbrown#hidden brain

 

[smalltownpsych]

I've never heard of this Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi person. He needs to simplify his name. But just googling him, I see he's a psychology professor, so he's probably someone who enjoys having a self-actualizing career. How do you or he know how much satisfaction proles get from their jobs? What makes you think a bus driver or a welder gets satisfaction that outweighs his effort?


I think you're imputing your innate tendency and mode of thought to all people. If you can "love" a job, you're a member of an extreme minority.


You just say that because you're a person who enjoys having a self-actualizing career.

I have spent about ten years working with adolescents and can tell you that even working at a minimum wage teen job can have more psychological benefit than any other intervention that I have seen. It goes like this, I work with the kid for weeks or even months to make small gains in mood, energy, self-worth, and self-confidence. He finally has enough of this to want more and sees money as a way to get more and a job as a way to get money. He lands a job and in two to three weeks, the change is sudden and dramatic. It doesn't always play out this way, obviously, but it happens enough for me to think it is not an accident. I have seen it happen more than finding the right anti-depressant which can also be a similar dramatic change.

 

[nitemagi]

I've never heard of this Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi person. He needs to simplify his name. But just googling him, I see he's a psychology professor, so he's probably someone who enjoys having a self-actualizing career. How do you or he know how much satisfaction proles get from their jobs? What makes you think a bus driver or a welder gets satisfaction that outweighs his effort?

In the book, the argument is that people get satisfaction, including physiologically, out of being absorbed in a process that requires a level of engagement (effort). Therefore people on an assembly line get absorbed in their process and effort, more than someone eating bon bons all day. You can be absorbed in bon bons, but since it doesn't require effortful engagement, the level of satisfaction and absorption will be less, and you're less likely to be in a "flow" state.

Add in the psychological benefits of accomplishment and mastery, even at minor tasks, and that's the argument for being involved.

All of us fantasize about having a vacation on a beach, or doing nothing, or whatever. It's a fantasy because it contrasts with the effort we put in now, but isn't grounded in reality. Effort followed by rest is good. Rest without effort first doesn't give as much satisfaction, because there's no strain to release, nothing to recover from. So while doing nothing might be good for a day or a week or a month, ultimately it'd get boring or dissatisfying.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I have spent about ten years working with adolescents and can tell you that even working at a minimum wage teen job can have more psychological benefit than any other intervention that I have seen. It goes like this, I work with the kid for weeks or even months to make small gains in mood, energy, self-worth, and self-confidence. He finally has enough of this to want more and sees money as a way to get more and a job as a way to get money. He lands a job and in two to three weeks, the change is sudden and dramatic. It doesn't always play out this way, obviously, but it happens enough for me to think it is not an accident. I have seen it happen more than finding the right anti-depressant which can also be a similar dramatic change.

I wonder if you would see similar improvements from joining the track team or a soccer league or anything else that mixes some challenge with social interactions. Or is there some sudden self worth gain from earning money?

 

[erg923]

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I wonder if you would see similar improvements from joining the track team or a soccer league or anything else that mixes some challenge with social interactions. Or is there some sudden self worth gain from earning money?

Well, I played football and held a job throughout the year all through high school. I felt that I got very different things from them each. Both good.

Although, "wide receiver" had a bit more of any appeal with women than "caddy and driving range golf ball tractor picker-upper."

 

[Dharma]

I wonder if you would see similar improvements from joining the track team or a soccer league or anything else that mixes some challenge with social interactions. Or is there some sudden self worth gain from earning money?

If one takes his/her sport seriously (i.e. regularly training and competing), I'm certain it will see positive effects. Those who just go through the motions and use sport just for entertainment... I'm not sure if they would reap similar benefits. From my own experience during high school, I noticed that my grades and social life improved considerably during those seasons when I was playing sports, minus those couple hours after going 0/4 at the plate when we suffered a big loss, which was rare 😉.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I wonder if you would see similar improvements from joining the track team or a soccer league or anything else that mixes some challenge with social interactions. Or is there some sudden self worth gain from earning money?

I have seen improvements from involvement in other activities, but not nearly to the same degree. Money is part of it as it represents a lot of things that can be beneficial for adolescents such as autonomy and self-efficacy, but I think a bigger part might be the exposure to adults who treat them as a peer with the accompanying expectations. Our society has lost a lot of the adult mentoring opportunities for teens outside the home. We think parents should still be the primary relationship for teens and my experience is that teens do best when their parents hand them over to other adults. Coaches and teachers, even psychologists the, can serve that role too of course and we can all think of examples where this was the case. I think that with the helicopter parent dynamic that work is one of the last places for that. Also, the kids I worked with tend to not be the athletes so work is a place where they can succeed whereas sports is where they have always been less than.

 

[vistaril]

I work about 53-55 hrs per week in person, and that doesn't include time spent carrying a pager some weekends and overnight(but it does include the time spent going in when I get paged)

 

[doctorpilgrim]

I work about 53-55 hrs per week in person, and that doesn't include time spent carrying a pager some weekends and overnight(but it does include the time spent going in when I get paged)

There is also the difference in intensity of the hours worked.Seeing 2 patients for followup per hour with one or two, one hour intakes is different from working 8 hours a day but seeing 24 patients a day, if that includes 3 to 4 intakes.If the system is not efficient with cumbersome medical record this can be exhausting.That is why rvu or no of patients seen per hour is a better indicator of lifestyle. So how many patients do you see per hour and in what setting.