ATTENTION ALL DENTISTS: would you do it again?

[ucbearcats2012]

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Hi,
Im very interested in the dental field and I really really value the opinion of someone who has gone through the road that I'm about to embark on.

So my question to you is, would you do it all again? Would you change anything? Do you love/hate your job? Is it worth the money? Do you find pride in your everyday job? Do you have your own practice?

Thanks in advance for all of your help

 

[amalgamator42]

I would go shadow some local dentists. Especially try and find younger grads and talk to them. You'll get more accurate and relevant info than here. Hit up your local ADA chapter for some names. there is usually a person in charge of new and younger members.

It's not the golden age of dentistry anymore and with all the new dental schools opening (aren't like 7 in the planning stages?) there will be added competition. If you have geographic flexibility, you can still do well, but the problem is, most desirable locations have been identified and there are already too many dentists there.

I think the most important thing is to keep your debt obligations low. Please don't go into 500K debt to be a dentist. It's foolish and will be a huge burden.

When I was thinking of dentistry (2001) it was the "golden age" and there were going to be 3 dentists retiring for every one entering and we were all going to be filthy rich and have a cushy job, making fat $$ all while working 4days/wk. This has not proven to be the case.

Take home message....go into this with your eyes open and with lower expectations. It's still a good field, and with this economy a good way to make a living, but it isn't what dreams are made of.

Hi,
Im very interested in the dental field and I really really value the opinion of someone who has gone through the road that I'm about to embark on.

So my question to you is, would you do it all again? Would you change anything? Do you love/hate your job? Is it worth the money? Do you find pride in your everyday job? Do you have your own practice?

Thanks in advance for all of your help

 

[RestorDent]

I'd definitely do it all over again. But I'd put more effort into it!! BAd GPA result in lower chances of getting in a postdoctoral program(even if I rank first for my last 2 years). The reason I love it is Im very happy at work. The money is ok but I TRULY ENJOY practicing. So figure out if it's something you can be happy doing cus like amalgamator said it's not the golden age anymore.
BTW I have no debt of any kind and that makes me feel like a bird!!! Freeeee!!
(FYI i didnt go to school in the states my school cost 1500$ a year for 5 years).

So keep ur debt LOW

 

[wisdomteeth]

If it's free, I will do it again and again and again....got it?!

 

[comatose]

I would go shadow some local dentists. Especially try and find younger grads and talk to them. You'll get more accurate and relevant info than here. Hit up your local ADA chapter for some names. there is usually a person in charge of new and younger members.

It's not the golden age of dentistry anymore and with all the new dental schools opening (aren't like 7 in the planning stages?) there will be added competition. If you have geographic flexibility, you can still do well, but the problem is, most desirable locations have been identified and there are already too many dentists there.

I think the most important thing is to keep your debt obligations low. Please don't go into 500K debt to be a dentist. It's foolish and will be a huge burden.

When I was thinking of dentistry (2001) it was the "golden age" and there were going to be 3 dentists retiring for every one entering and we were all going to be filthy rich and have a cushy job, making fat $$ all while working 4days/wk. This has not proven to be the case.

Take home message....go into this with your eyes open and with lower expectations. It's still a good field, and with this economy a good way to make a living, but it isn't what dreams are made of.

100% agreed

 

[jwdent]

Is it the golden age of any profession nowadays? I do not think dentistry is the only profession facing more competition with increases in the number of graduates. It is happening in other professions as well such as medicine, business, and law. I do not think anyone can go into a profession with guaranteed success, but I think if someone really enjoys what they do and is good at it, success can come.

 

[pacificNW]

Agreed. The general public (read: everyone you know) thinks that all dentists are crazy rich. This just isn't the case, especially when you have sizable student loans. Some kids have dad as a dentist who pays for school, and they graduate with no debt and a guaranteed job.

The others of us take out loans and don't have family to hook us up afterwards. I genuinely came to love seeing my patients and taking care of them in school, and I expect that, once I have the 240k in loans under control, I will be able to feel that way again in the future. But, you have to care about people. If you only care about money, going to dental school is a risky move. Especially compared to what you're probably thinking it is.

It seems that those who have the most public exposure are the successful dentists, who earn the most. This skews expectations. Before dental school, everyone thinks they're "the best" and expects that they will have the best outcome out of the range of outcomes. Once in dental school, most of us are humbled and realize that it is still quite an honor to be an "average" dentist (no small feat).

If you are thinking of money, you might want to consider other options.

 

[HupHolland]

I'm a new dentist with a sizable student loan ($240k), but would definitely do it over again. I love going to work everyday and treating patients. Of course there are PITA patients, but if you have a positive attitude and just filter theirs out then life as a dentist can be cake.....

As a dentist with the right personality and good business sense, you will...
-Be your own boss (autonomy!)
-Command respect of your patients/community
-Make good money
-Enjoy interacting/treating patients


If you're choosing a career strictly based on income potential, then dentistry isn't for you. If the above sounds good to you, then I'd be more than happy one day to welcome you to the profession.

Hup

PS- I disagree and think this IS the golden age of dentistry. Sure, most are making a little less nowadays, but the technology/materials are making our job much easier and more predictable. Much of the stress in our profession stems from frustration associated unpredictability. With the advent of microscopes/magnification/illumination, cad-cam, improved dental materials and digital imaging, we can now do dentistry predictably! In my opinion, predictability = golden age of dentistry..... not income!

 

[ogopogodude]

I love my job, ... but i hated it for the first two to three years after graduating. This is becasue I was doing things that i was taught to do in dental school. And things never worked out. crowns came off that had my newly placed PFM crowns on, etc.... It took me several years ot "un-learn" what I was taught in dental school, ... and then it took me several years to learn that everything that fails in dentistry is due to the total lack of understanding of occlusion.

 

[EconMajor]

also be prepared to be "hated" by the general public,
"OH i hate the dentist"
"you are a dentist? You cause pain and fear in people?"
"I hate drills and I avoid going to the dentist at all cost"
"you are not a doctor, you are a dentist"

It might sound minor but in reality when you tell people you are a dentist, a lot of them will say that to you face, which seem very disrespectful. Some ppl give no respect to dentists and say we are not "real doctors" .

that being said, the majority of the people respect the profession and you as a professional. And you have wayyyyy better life style than your physician counterparts.

But you have to be mentally tough with the rude idiots that try to bring you down.

So the choice is yours 😱
capische?

 

[General12345]

No i would never do it again dental school was hell especially first and second year was crazy hard for me. coming out with 350k debit at (6.8 percent interest) no jobs in big cities i would not do it again

 

[newyorkblork]

No i would never do it again dental school was hell especially first and second year was crazy hard for me. coming out with 350k debit at (6.8 percent interest) no jobs in big cities i would not do it again

Can you talk about this a little more?

You knew going into it that dental school would be difficult and that you would be 300-350k in debt; what made you continue with it then, and what makes you feel now that it was not worth it?

Are you having difficulties finding a job? Are you making zero money? Have you suddenly discovered that you find Dentistry excruciatingly boring/tedious/tiresome?

I love my job, ... but i hated it for the first two to three years after graduating. This is becasue I was doing things that i was taught to do in dental school. And things never worked out. crowns came off that had my newly placed PFM crowns on, etc.... It took me several years ot "un-learn" what I was taught in dental school, ... and then it took me several years to learn that everything that fails in dentistry is due to the total lack of understanding of occlusion.

Do you think this is 'the norm'? What sort of things are you "unlearning", more specifically?

Any dentists out there have general thoughts on what allows someone to "get the most out of their dental education"?

 

[omaralt]

i would definitely do it again; i have no boss, work 4.5 days/week and make a nice income. and i actually enjoy dentistry; and i think it's because i dont work for a chain/mill and see who i want and dismiss who i dont want to see (ie, i hate endo; refer out 99% of it, but love OS and do 90% of my EXT's).

having said that i would never go to dental school if i was going to come out with $400K + of debt. it's just not worth it. the issue is that when you have that much debt you'll take the first good paying job you can get; regardless of how bad the situation is (ie medicaid clinic). you'll be miserable however unable to leave because you have a monthly ~$3K+ loan repayment + other normal expenses. so you'll be broke, miserable, and in debt to your eyeballs. IMO if you must go to one of the expensive schools JOIN THE MILITARY!

 

[A6project]

then how much debt is manageable?
I've applied in this cycle and just have questions about how much "Cost of school" matters in deciding schools.

I have heard that if the tuition is within 50k range, go to the school you want. If more than 50k, then go to the cheaper school. Is that pretty valid?

"you'll take the first good paying job you can get; regardless of how bad the situation is
"
could you elaborate more on this too?

Oh ya one more, I'm planning not to ask any money from my parents. ( they've already paid for my undergraduate + living costs, and I don't want them to be 'the giving tree'.) If I were to borrow govt subsidized & unsubsidized loan and private loan (my credit score is around 750), would it be too much to handle when I am out of the dental school?

sorry about a lot of qs.

Thanks!!

 

[bigbadaboom]

become a dentist because you love helping people and get people to feel better - fix their toothache.



don't become a dentist because you think you'll make big money. It is not true. Especially don't go to a dental school that costs more than 250k after 4 years. It is just not worth it worrying about the debt, plus the cost to start your own practice afterwards.
Do not become a dentist if you plan on living in California. Hygienists make more than dentists there with much less training, much less headache and less responsibility.

Don't become a dentist if you want to keep a healthy, pain free lower back and shoulder and neck.

If I were to do it all over again, medical school and a dermatologist.
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/...e&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/...e&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false


If you want to enjoy life and still feel good about helping people, become a fire fighter. Fire fighters in San Francisco gets about 120k in pensions and benefits during retirement. That's 20 years on the job, 120k per year in retirement. Get hired back and work another 20 years, double dip. Your retirement and pension is set.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-149084.html

 

[bigbadaboom]

also be prepared to be "hated" by the general public,
"OH i hate the dentist"
"you are a dentist? You cause pain and fear in people?"
"I hate drills and I avoid going to the dentist at all cost"
"you are not a doctor, you are a dentist"

It might sound minor but in reality when you tell people you are a dentist, a lot of them will say that to you face, which seem very disrespectful. Some ppl give no respect to dentists and say we are not "real doctors" .

that being said, the majority of the people respect the profession and you as a professional. And you have wayyyyy better life style than your physician counterparts.

But you have to be mentally tough with the rude idiots that try to bring you down.

So the choice is yours 😱
capische?

very true. People do not like going to the dentist. People do not respect you like a doctor, not anymore.
How do you deal with unhappy people all day? They hate being in the chair.
While you're the boss and need to deal with employees? oh darn, my assistant's child is sick and needs to be taken to doctor. Now what do I do? oh darn, the other assistant's ex BF is a crazy psycho that storms into the office arguing with her. meanwhile the 55 year old high maintenance female patient wants you to make her look like 20 again.

sometimes I think people admire our profession but not knowing the whole truth.

 

[A6project]

become a dentist because you love helping people and get people to feel better - fix their toothache.



don't become a dentist because you think you'll make big money. It is not true. Especially don't go to a dental school that costs more than 250k after 4 years. It is just not worth it worrying about the debt, plus the cost to start your own practice afterwards.
Do not become a dentist if you plan on living in California. Hygienists make more than dentists there with much less training, much less headache and less responsibility.

Don't become a dentist if you want to keep a healthy, pain free lower back and shoulder and neck.

If I were to do it all over again, medical school and a dermatologist.
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/...e&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/...e&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false


If you want to enjoy life and still feel good about helping people, become a fire fighter. Fire fighters in San Francisco gets about 120k in pensions and benefits during retirement. That's 20 years on the job, 120k per year in retirement. Get hired back and work another 20 years, double dip. Your retirement and pension is set.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-149084.html

nowadays all the private schools costs around 94k (including everything) a year. That's roughly 374k in debt when u get out of the school.

Do you think that that is not worth it???? 374k is paying off $3500 for every month for 15 years... how come this is not manageable? (a dentist makes roughly $500 a day as an associate - tell me if I am wrong_

dentistry is my passion and I wanna make differences in people's lives. I'm not too gready, i will be comfortable driving a regular car and live at a regular home.... But how would 374k debt would affect a lifestyle of a dentist?

Plz plz shed some lights on this.
I am just a young kid with great ambitions and dreams yet still stupid and unwise.

 

[bigbadaboom]

nowadays all the private schools costs around 94k (including everything) a year. That's roughly 374k in debt when u get out of the school.

Do you think that that is not worth it???? 374k is paying off $3500 for every month for 15 years... how come this is not manageable? (a dentist makes roughly $500 a day as an associate - tell me if I am wrong_

dentistry is my passion and I wanna make differences in people's lives. I'm not too gready, i will be comfortable driving a regular car and live at a regular home.... But how would 374k debt would affect a lifestyle of a dentist?

Plz plz shed some lights on this.
I am just a young with great ambitions and dreams yet still stupid and unwise.

I live modest and I drive a regular car too. My car costs 20k and my rent is only 1100 a month.
Roughly 500 a day, IF you can find a job.
No job? start own practice, uhm, another 400k for a modestly built office. Oh not forget mortgage payment for a house. What are we talking, about a million dollars? That's before having any children.

 

[bigbadaboom]

i had a classmate who accumulated 250k in undergrad tuition debt
250k in dental school debt, went to specialty 3 years, another 200k.
He built a new office, 500k. Last I heard, he couldn't get a loan to buy a house.

 

[A6project]

then do you think that most new dentists (who graduated from 3 years ago to next 8 years) will financially struggle?? really badly??

what's your advice and how can anyone make debt a reasonable size?

 

[bisconito]

very true. People do not like going to the dentist. People do not respect you like a doctor, not anymore.
How do you deal with unhappy people all day? They hate being in the chair.
While you're the boss and need to deal with employees? oh darn, my assistant's child is sick and needs to be taken to doctor. Now what do I do? oh darn, the other assistant's ex BF is a crazy psycho that storms into the office arguing with her. meanwhile the 55 year old high maintenance female patient wants you to make her look like 20 again.

sometimes I think people admire our profession but not knowing the whole truth.

I'm sorry that you've had a rough time in practice. There's just a little too much bitterness on this thread.
Here's a question: do you really want your patients to think that you are just like their physician in this legislative climate?
Dentistry is still in it's golden age... unless you want to live in SoCal or NYC where most of the positions are for associateships with no prospect of ownership.
The best way to overcome your debt and build a successful financial portfolio is through ownership. The amount of debt that we are holding is simply too much for $100K year salary.
Also, don't try to pay off your student loans as quickly as possible. You should build enough liquidity to secure decent loans for your home, practice, etc. When you have a greater income, then you can pay down your debt more efficiently.

Here's something to think about: if your patients don't like you, and your employees or colleagues do not respect you, then maybe you should look in the mirror and see if it's your personality that's dragging you down.

 

[mr24]

👍👍👍👍👍

I'm sorry that you've had a rough time in practice. There's just a little too much bitterness on this thread.
Here's a question: do you really want your patients to think that you are just like their physician in this legislative climate?
Dentistry is still in it's golden age... unless you want to live in SoCal or NYC where most of the positions are for associateships with no prospect of ownership.
The best way to overcome your debt and build a successful financial portfolio is through ownership. The amount of debt that we are holding is simply too much for $100K year salary.
Also, don't try to pay off your student loans as quickly as possible. You should build enough liquidity to secure decent loans for your home, practice, etc. When you have a greater income, then you can pay down your debt more efficiently.

Here's something to think about: if your patients don't like you, and your employees or colleagues do not respect you, then maybe you should look in the mirror and see if it's your personality that's dragging you down.

 

[bigbadaboom]

I'm sorry that you've had a rough time in practice. There's just a little too much bitterness on this thread.
Here's a question: do you really want your patients to think that you are just like their physician in this legislative climate?
Dentistry is still in it's golden age... unless you want to live in SoCal or NYC where most of the positions are for associateships with no prospect of ownership.
The best way to overcome your debt and build a successful financial portfolio is through ownership. The amount of debt that we are holding is simply too much for $100K year salary.
Also, don't try to pay off your student loans as quickly as possible. You should build enough liquidity to secure decent loans for your home, practice, etc. When you have a greater income, then you can pay down your debt more efficiently.

Here's something to think about: if your patients don't like you, and your employees or colleagues do not respect you, then maybe you should look in the mirror and see if it's your personality that's dragging you down.

Dentistry is still in its golden age? Yes in the clinical aspect, with all the new technology and advancement. Not in the sense of practice ownership. Why do you think there so many corporate multi-state chain offices popping up around the country? It is a big burden and a big risk for a dentist to take the plunge and start his own place. I was in the same mindset coming out of school, all very excited about entering the real world. It is so very different from what we have been lead to believe.
There is no patient loyalty anymore. Patients will switch dentist in an instant if their insurance plan changes and you're no longer their provider. Sure, there will be some that will stay with you because they just love you so much. They are very rare. Building a practice with a pool of these loyal patients takes years, decades. It is the holy grail. I hope to be there one day. It is especially tough in this economy. I wish 40 year loan still exists.

Here is a tip for you - never bring negative energy to work, never let your team members and your patients feel you're in a bad mood. You always keep a smile on your face and tell people you're successful. Who wants to go to a dentist driving a beat up Hyundai and worrying about paying off this month's rent? It's all for a show. I am ranting here for us who're in this field.
Do you know who the staff members respect? the person who signs the paycheck.
This is a tip given to us by an older dentist. There are two things the patients care the most when they're in the chair - 1. will it hurt? 2. how much is it going to cost me?

 

[DrGuilhermeMuck]

Greetings,

first of all I'd like to say that my current status would be very different from anyone else in this forum for a particular reason - I am brazilian and therefore I practice dentistry here in Brazil.

I am 29 years old and resident in OMFS at one of the top hospitals in the country. Specialist in oral surgery and dental implants.

Our college and university system is nothing like the american one, for a few reasons:

- we have lots of public and totally free renowned universities all over the country. I've graduated at one of the five best and bigger universities in the county and my Dental School is ranked top 3 in the country.

- we don't have to make any kind of pre-university courses like pre-med, pre-law, pre-dental and etc... once we graduate in high school we can attend to any course at any university, private or public. That makes the average dental graduate age around 23/25 years old (it is a five years course, usually from 18 to 23 yrs/old) and the average medicine graduates age around 24/26 (it is a six years course, usually from 18 to 24 yrs/old)

That being said, I'm not pretty sure if I would attend to dental school in the first place. Once I've graduated in High School I was trying to get into Medicine School, and tried that for three years. By that time my family couldn't pay for a 40K/year school and my only option was to get into the public university. I've failed all the three years for a margin lower than 3 points (in a total of 300) everytime I've tried. (here in Brazil we have to make annual tests for universities. By that time, each school had it own test, but now we have a national test, called ENEM, that is pretty much similar to the american SAT).

After three years failling to join the Med school I've decided to take the test for the dentistry school (at the same university, and the test was the same for both courses) and passed with flying colors (and my grades would be enough for the med school as well ).

So, in January 2004 I've got into the Dentistry School of the Minas Gerais Federal University (UFMG, www.ufmg.br) and for five years I've attended to that school, without paying a dime for tuition.

I've graduated in December 2008 and since that I'm struggling at my practice only for economical reasons.

Brazil is still a poor nation, and most of the people can't afford to pay for any kind of health treatment, what pushes the average price of any procedure to the bottom.

Just to give you guys a heads up - I'm a resident in OMFS at the best trauma and ER hospital in the state and a skilled oral surgeon, but, even with my qualifications, the average price that I can charge for an impacted wisdom tooth surgery is around only $100,00.

If I charge too much over it, like $150,00 I will have no patients at all... and thats not even the bigger problem. Health insurance companies are spread out all over the country, and if you're not working for them (I can't say the term in english, but I mean being one of the professionals they allow the users to choose from and go to their office) you will struggle to have patients, and the value they pay for the procedures is bottom low. For instance, the average price they pay the dentist for an impacted wisdom tooth surgery is $30,00!

That being said, economically, I would think twice, three or four times before going to dental school.

Professionally I would do it again because I really enjoy what I do, however, it is pretty hard to be a happy person if you're not making enough for a living.

Thanks,
Dr. Guilherme Muck

 

[navypeds]

i would definitely do it again; i have no boss, work 4.5 days/week and make a nice income. and i actually enjoy dentistry; and i think it's because i dont work for a chain/mill and see who i want and dismiss who i dont want to see (ie, i hate endo; refer out 99% of it, but love OS and do 90% of my EXT's).

having said that i would never go to dental school if i was going to come out with $400K + of debt. it's just not worth it. the issue is that when you have that much debt you'll take the first good paying job you can get; regardless of how bad the situation is (ie medicaid clinic). you'll be miserable however unable to leave because you have a monthly ~$3K+ loan repayment + other normal expenses. so you'll be broke, miserable, and in debt to your eyeballs. IMO if you must go to one of the expensive schools JOIN THE MILITARY!

If you're too concerned about debt. The military is a great option. I've been to some really cool places, had great mentorship and now I'm getting out applying to pedo. It was a win/win for my family.
Specialization is a bit easier in the military if you decide you like the lifestyle.

 

[beannaithe]

Roughly 500 a day, IF you can find a job.
.

I interviewed as a new grad from a residency a few months ago. I went on several interviews and most owners were paying well under $500. A few laughed in my face when I wanted a $350/day guarantee. 😱 Job market is tight for new grads, unless you go corporate...they're always hiring. I think realistic is $400-$450/day unless you go corporate/Medicaid office/hit a fee for service goldmine.

That being said. I love dentistry and I would choose this job over and over again. I work 4 days a week, make a good income, live comfortably. $275k in student loans is daunting. I can't buy a house or finance a practice until they;re mostly paid off. I think I can barely buy a car, if I need a new one.

 

[DrGuilhermeMuck]

In the US they are willing to pay $350,00 for a day of work? Tell me where that I'll fly there imediately!

Here in Brazil, in my current status, I need a very good WEEK AT WORK to make $350,00!!

 

[Mackchops]

also be prepared to be "hated" by the general public,
"OH i hate the dentist"
"you are a dentist? You cause pain and fear in people?"
"I hate drills and I avoid going to the dentist at all cost"
"you are not a doctor, you are a dentist"

It might sound minor but in reality when you tell people you are a dentist, a lot of them will say that to you face, which seem very disrespectful. Some ppl give no respect to dentists and say we are not "real doctors" .

that being said, the majority of the people respect the profession and you as a professional. And you have wayyyyy better life style than your physician counterparts.

But you have to be mentally tough with the rude idiots that try to bring you down.

So the choice is yours 😱
capische?

Everytime I hear somebody say this I want to V8-forehead-smack them. Dentistry isn't difficult because of the hand skills and technical requirements - anyone can train a monkey to prep a tooth or place an implant. The hard part is patient management. People skills. Medical management. Pain management. Treatment planning. Excellence in these areas, plus being able to communicate with patients, assistants, office staff, sales reps, etc is what separates the PUBLIC perception of a good dentist from a lousy dentist. Nobody will ever see the margins on your crown. But they will know if they feel you weren't listening to their concerns.

When someone tells me I'm not a real doctor I laugh because even the "real doctors" will come to lowly me when they have a toothache. Dentists and physicians are two sides of the same coin and I don't want to be the physician. I love my job (and I'm a lowly resident), love my patients (I'm at a VA seeing a bunch of grumpy PTSD vets all day), and feel like I am very highly respected by my patients and by the other "real doctors" I work with.

 

[TheSculptor]

Absolutely! No regrets. I only wished I had been more sociable when I was in school. However, I think some amendments could have been made to the curriculum. Let's just say that dental school is a small baby step compared to how you evolve after you graduate.

A GPR, a ton of continuing education courses, some years of private practice and constructive criticism have made me far superior compared to how skilled I was as a fresh graduate. I continue to push my boundaries. If you aren't willing to be up to date with new technology, materials and procedures - a lifetime of learning, then dentistry is not the career for you.

In the present and in the near future, fillings and extractions will be designated to EFDAs, hygienists and dental therapists. The dentist of today has to develop skills in orthodontics, periodontal surgery, implants and other treatments if they want to survive. At least that is what one of my mentors told me. He has an MAGD (Mastership with the AGD and other accolades) been in practice for 30 something years and restricts his practice to ortho,implants and big restorative (full mouth rehab) cases while his associates do the basic drill & fill.