Would you tell your 18 year old self to do dentistry?

[JacquesVallee]

---

Members don't see this ad.

130k only? that seems absurdly low. Is this full time employment? at a major city?

Full time in a major city for new grads. I had an offer for 5 days a week, full time, 120k in the same city. I obviously didn't take it.

 

[LFA20]

Full time in a major city for new grads. I had an offer for 5 days a week, full time, 120k in the same city. I obviously didn't take it.

Wow good to know. That's just insane.

 

[LFA20]

Ok, I'm not sure if I'm thinking about this in the way that income levels are reported, but depending on the office structure, are these incomes reported based on W2 data, 1099, K-1s, etc...? If this is only W2 income, then of course it will be significantly lower since we don't declare all of our dental income in our W2s, it would be represented elsewhere. I still can't believe that dental income would be this low. At those income levels, I could imagine dentists just goofing around most of the day.

Let's reverse engineer this a little and use easy numbers. If the average annual salary is 200k, they get a hypothetical 30% of collections, they would produce ~667k, which is ~55.6k a month, divided by an average of 20 working days, which is around ~2.8k/day. Does any of this add up for you? 2.8k is like an RCTBUCrn, 2-3 crowns, or a set of impacted 3rds or perhaps 28 fillings at PPO rates... I'm skeptical about these numbers, unless most people are part-timing working an hour or two a day, or working 1-3 days a week.

Based on that calculation why don’t most dentist make 300k+ per year at least?

I’m not in private practice but looking at your example it just seems absurd that an associate can’t produce at least $4-5k per day. That’s like what 3 crowns and one anterior root canal? And this is PPO?

What do you think is the issue here? Is it about finding patients to work on?

 

[JacquesVallee]

What do you think is the issue here? Is it about finding patients to work on?

This is the issue. So many dentists in saturated areas are just sitting on their hands all day.

 

[TanMan]

Based on that calculation why don’t most dentist make 300k+ per year at least?

I’m not in private practice but looking at your example it just seems absurd that an associate can’t produce at least $4-5k per day. That’s like what 3 crowns and one anterior root canal? And this is PPO?

What do you think is the issue here? Is it about finding patients to work on?

They should... and we all have our busy days and our slow days, but even at 10k, I'm sitting in my office a lot more than I would want. I can only imagine how much real work is being done if they are collecting ~3k/day. I guess they probably are sitting in their office most of the day doing nothing.

PPO fees are closer to 50-70% office fees, but even then, looking at the time it takes us to do procedures, there's still plenty of time to do work.

I believe it is a combination of things that make dentistry perceivably worse. First would probably be incorrect reporting of median/average wages... back to the whole W2 thing. Second could be that some dentists are just slow as molasses. Third could be the lack of quick, profitable procedures such as crowns, RCTs, implants and/or lack of patients. Lastly, we don't have an idea of if these are a survey of all types general dentists (retired, academic, not practicing), FT/PT, private sector v. public sector, number of hours worked per week, years of experience etc.

I'm still really skeptical about that mean/median, maybe these 120k offers are for newbies and set as a low minimum as the bar for new grads is pretty low to begin with. If @JacquesVallee is right about this, then yes, being stuck at that payrate makes absolutely no sense. You might as well go into something that has a low cost/barrier to entry and higher potential. YMMV in dentistry, I suppose.

 

[LFA20]

They should... and we all have our busy days and our slow days, but even at 10k, I'm sitting in my office a lot more than I would want. I can only imagine how much real work is being done if they are collecting ~3k/day. I guess they probably are sitting in their office most of the day doing nothing.

PPO fees are closer to 50-70% office fees, but even then, looking at the time it takes us to do procedures, there's still plenty of time to do work.

I believe it is a combination of things that make dentistry perceivably worse. First would probably be incorrect reporting of median/average wages... back to the whole W2 thing. Second could be that some dentists are just slow as molasses. Third could be the lack of quick, profitable procedures such as crowns, RCTs, implants and/or lack of patients. Lastly, we don't have an idea of if these are a survey of all types general dentists (retired, academic, not practicing), FT/PT, private sector v. public sector, number of hours worked per week, years of experience etc.

I'm still really skeptical about that mean/median, maybe these 120k offers are for newbies and set as a low minimum as the bar for new grads is pretty low to begin with. If @JacquesVallee is right about this, then yes, being stuck at that payrate makes absolutely no sense. You might as well go into something that has a low cost/barrier to entry and higher potential. YMMV in dentistry, I suppose.

are you 100% FFS @TanMan ?

This maybe a dumb question but when you say PPO fees are closer to 50-70% office then for example:

If an office normally charges $1,200 for a crown before any insurance and if I get paid 30% collection and I work for a PPO office, then I'm only making 30% of $600-$840? which is $180-$252 per crown?

I think it starts to become more difficult to produce $6k-$8k if this is the case... Especially for new grads who are slow and not yet clinically comfortable.

 

[LFA20]

I used chat GPT to calculate this

Step-by-step:​

1. Estimate PPO reimbursement for one CEREC crown:​

• 50% PPO: $1,400 × 0.50 = $700 collected
• 70% PPO: $1,400 × 0.70 = $980 collected

2. Your pay per crown (30% of collections):​

• Low PPO (50%): $700 × 0.30 = $210
• High PPO (70%): $980 × 0.30 = $294

3. How many crowns needed per day to earn $1,250?​

• At $210 per crown (low PPO):
  
  1,250210≈5.95⇒6crowns/day\frac{1,250}{210} \approx 5.95 \Rightarrow \boxed{6 crowns/day}2101,250≈5.95⇒6crowns/day
• At $294 per crown (high PPO):
  
  1,250294≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day\frac{1,250}{294} \approx 4.26 \Rightarrow \boxed{4–5 crowns/day}2941,250≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day

---

✅ Final Answer:​

To earn $300,000/year under your current structure, you need to do:

• 4–6 CEREC crowns per day, depending on the PPO reimbursement rate.

This sounds very doable IMO and this is not even including easy endo/core build up. I think the issue is getting a steady flow of patients needing these highly profitable procedures.

 

[JacquesVallee]

I used chat GPT to calculate this

Step-by-step:​

1. Estimate PPO reimbursement for one CEREC crown:​

• 50% PPO: $1,400 × 0.50 = $700 collected
• 70% PPO: $1,400 × 0.70 = $980 collected

2. Your pay per crown (30% of collections):​

• Low PPO (50%): $700 × 0.30 = $210
• High PPO (70%): $980 × 0.30 = $294

3. How many crowns needed per day to earn $1,250?​

• At $210 per crown (low PPO):
  
  1,250210≈5.95⇒6crowns/day\frac{1,250}{210} \approx 5.95 \Rightarrow \boxed{6 crowns/day}2101,250≈5.95⇒6crowns/day
• At $294 per crown (high PPO):
  
  1,250294≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day\frac{1,250}{294} \approx 4.26 \Rightarrow \boxed{4–5 crowns/day}2941,250≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day

---

✅ Final Answer:​

To earn $300,000/year under your current structure, you need to do:

• 4–6 CEREC crowns per day, depending on the PPO reimbursement rate.

This sounds very doable IMO and this is not even including easy endo/core build up. I think the issue is getting a steady flow of patients needing these highly profitable procedures.

4-6 crowns a day is a lot. I don't see how that's feasible to maintain that. When I was rural I was always stoked when I had 3 scheduled a day.

 

[LFA20]

4-6 crowns a day is a lot. I don't see how that's feasible to maintain that. When I was rural I was always stoked when I had 3 scheduled a day.

Yes but what if it gets mixed with core build up/anterior & molar endo/fillings? and this is to make $300,000. Imagine if it's only 200k then wouldn't it be easier? I'm just perplexed judging solely on the numbers that a dentist can't make at least 200k-250k in PP

 

[yappy]

If dentistry didn't cost so much I don't think it'd be a horrible job. But people are coming out making 130k with 400k+ of debt which isn't remotely worth it.

I agree. Same thing with pharmacy and physical therapy. Education costs are ruining entire professions.

 

[Thehighwind87]

Ok, I'm not sure if I'm thinking about this in the way that income levels are reported, but depending on the office structure, are these incomes reported based on W2 data, 1099, K-1s, etc...? If this is only W2 income, then of course it will be significantly lower since we don't declare all of our dental income in our W2s, it would be represented elsewhere. I still can't believe that dental income would be this low. At those income levels, I could imagine dentists just goofing around most of the day.

Let's reverse engineer this a little and use easy numbers. If the average annual salary is 200k, they get a hypothetical 30% of collections, they would produce ~667k, which is ~55.6k a month, divided by an average of 20 working days, which is around ~2.8k/day. Does any of this add up for you? 2.8k is like an RCTBUCrn, 2-3 crowns, or a set of impacted 3rds or perhaps 28 fillings at PPO rates... I'm skeptical about these numbers, unless most people are part-timing working an hour or two a day, or working 1-3 days a week.

Every single data point disagrees with you. Period.

Dentists

Dentists diagnose and treat problems with patients’ teeth, gums, and related parts of the mouth.

www.bls.gov

U.S. Dentist Earnings and Busyness Trends

HPI's update of Survey of Dental Practice offers a snapshot of the dental economy with key updates on dentist earnings, busyness, and dental practice revenue and expenses.

www.ada.org

150k is below average. 200k is a solid dental average income. Anything above 300k is great.

400k+ are OUTLIERS and should not be used to justify how great and easy the field is because it represents the .000001%.

Just like how a dentist that makes 80k a year should not be taken seriously about how bad dentistry is.

This is just common sense speaking. I lie in the 400k + income but I don’t think this is normal. I know plenty of people”average 200k” dentists who are not pulling in money. Why? I don’t know why, combo of luck? Skill? Business acumen? Who knows.

But I don’t go around saying dentistry is so easy to make 400k. It’s not. I’m an outlier. I look at the big picture and don’t use my outlier number to think everyone makes that money. Common sense

 

[JacquesVallee]

Every single data point disagrees with you. Period.

Dentists

Dentists diagnose and treat problems with patients’ teeth, gums, and related parts of the mouth.

www.bls.gov

U.S. Dentist Earnings and Busyness Trends

HPI's update of Survey of Dental Practice offers a snapshot of the dental economy with key updates on dentist earnings, busyness, and dental practice revenue and expenses.

www.ada.org

150k is below average. 200k is a solid dental average income. Anything above 300k is great.

400k+ are OUTLIERS and should not be used to justify how great and easy the field is because it represents the .000001%.

Just like how a dentist that makes 80k a year should not be taken seriously about how bad dentistry is.

This is just common sense speaking. I lie in the 400k + income but I don’t think this is normal. I know plenty of people”average 200k” dentists who are not pulling in money. Why? I don’t know why, combo of luck? Skill? Business acumen? Who knows.

But I don’t go around saying dentistry is so easy to make 400k. It’s not. I’m an outlier. I look at the big picture and don’t use my outlier number to think everyone makes that money. Common sense

Keep in mind, things are much worse for those of us who recently graduated vs those who have been out 10+ years.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I used chat GPT to calculate this

Step-by-step:​

1. Estimate PPO reimbursement for one CEREC crown:​

• 50% PPO: $1,400 × 0.50 = $700 collected
• 70% PPO: $1,400 × 0.70 = $980 collected

2. Your pay per crown (30% of collections):​

• Low PPO (50%): $700 × 0.30 = $210
• High PPO (70%): $980 × 0.30 = $294

3. How many crowns needed per day to earn $1,250?​

• At $210 per crown (low PPO):
  
  1,250210≈5.95⇒6crowns/day\frac{1,250}{210} \approx 5.95 \Rightarrow \boxed{6 crowns/day}2101,250≈5.95⇒6crowns/day
• At $294 per crown (high PPO):
  
  1,250294≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day\frac{1,250}{294} \approx 4.26 \Rightarrow \boxed{4–5 crowns/day}2941,250≈4.26⇒4–5crowns/day

---

✅ Final Answer:​

To earn $300,000/year under your current structure, you need to do:

• 4–6 CEREC crowns per day, depending on the PPO reimbursement rate.

This sounds very doable IMO and this is not even including easy endo/core build up. I think the issue is getting a steady flow of patients needing these highly profitable procedures.

4-6 crowns a day? lol

I do 1 a day. 2 if lucky.

Imagine thinking every private office is belting out x4/6 crowns as the norm… it’s not.

 

[TanMan]

are you 100% FFS @TanMan ?

This maybe a dumb question but when you say PPO fees are closer to 50-70% office then for example:

If an office normally charges $1,200 for a crown before any insurance and if I get paid 30% collection and I work for a PPO office, then I'm only making 30% of $600-$840? which is $180-$252 per crown?

I think it starts to become more difficult to produce $6k-$8k if this is the case... Especially for new grads who are slow and not yet clinically comfortable.

I am not 100% FFS. There's so much more than just crowns, but they are an integral part of the practice. With CEREC, you'd be able to do around 6 crowns an hour if you had multiple mills, scanners, and ovens (3-5 min scan, 3-5 min design, 3-5 min mill, 10 minute sintering time, adjustment and polish, cement). You're there primarily for the prep and delivery. Even at 180 dollars per crown, that takes about 10 mins of my time (me physically being there, not the chairtime), that's not a bad proposition. Maybe 1-2 crowns per hour if you just had one as you will be bottlenecked by equipment. I guess it is important to light a fire underneath the new grad's butts so that they realize the urgency of how they need to be more efficient.

4-6 crowns a day is a lot. I don't see how that's feasible to maintain that. When I was rural I was always stoked when I had 3 scheduled a day.

It's not just crowns. There's RCTs, fills, extractions, bridges, implants, and so on.... RCT usually accompanies crowns, fills take a couple of minutes, and so do extractions. Bridges are a force multiplier in terms of propping up number of units, Implants take a few minutes to place in many instances. Combine all of these in an amalgamation of income and you'll get much higher numbers than proposed above.

Every single data point disagrees with you. Period.

Dentists

Dentists diagnose and treat problems with patients’ teeth, gums, and related parts of the mouth.

www.bls.gov

U.S. Dentist Earnings and Busyness Trends

HPI's update of Survey of Dental Practice offers a snapshot of the dental economy with key updates on dentist earnings, busyness, and dental practice revenue and expenses.

www.ada.org

150k is below average. 200k is a solid dental average income. Anything above 300k is great.

400k+ are OUTLIERS and should not be used to justify how great and easy the field is because it represents the .000001%.

Just like how a dentist that makes 80k a year should not be taken seriously about how bad dentistry is.

This is just common sense speaking. I lie in the 400k + income but I don’t think this is normal. I know plenty of people”average 200k” dentists who are not pulling in money. Why? I don’t know why, combo of luck? Skill? Business acumen? Who knows.

But I don’t go around saying dentistry is so easy to make 400k. It’s not. I’m an outlier. I look at the big picture and don’t use my outlier number to think everyone makes that money. Common sense

I'm not debating about what the data points are presenting, but where they got that data from. When we hear salary, we often think W2 wages. Does that include dentists who receive a 1099 or K1, or dentists that have S-corps/C-corps? I don't think we're in the outlier, many dentists in my area do a lot better than 200k. 200k is only about 16.7k/month. That is not very much dentistry.

Only if I also got a time machine to buy Apple stock and prep mentally for 3-hour hygiene checks and patients asking if cleanings are “covered”

That's the issue with a lot of dentists - they don't want to delegate things that can be delegated. 3 hour hygiene checks? Why does it take so long? With that time frame, you're already losing money unless you're doing LANAP or SRPs. We're not here to answer if cleanings are covered, your staff deals with that while you deal with things that actually produce income. If they don't like it, they can find a place that will waive their copay, and it's just better that way as you're getting them out of your chair, not having to hard sell them on a "cleaning", SRP, or whatever periodontal treatment they need. Want it? Get it, if not, please move so that we can make room for another paying patient. You also make your practice stronger by weeding out patients that want the cheap way out and/or have no interest in your clinical recommendations. I have made my office stronger throughout the years by not catering to them. I also don't have to feel like a sleazy salesperson by hard selling procedures.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I am not 100% FFS. There's so much more than just crowns, but they are an integral part of the practice. With CEREC, you'd be able to do around 6 crowns an hour if you had multiple mills, scanners, and ovens (3-5 min scan, 3-5 min design, 3-5 min mill, 10 minute sintering time, adjustment and polish, cement). You're there primarily for the prep and delivery. Even at 180 dollars per crown, that takes about 10 mins of my time (me physically being there, not the chairtime), that's not a bad proposition. Maybe 1-2 crowns per hour if you just had one as you will be bottlenecked by equipment. I guess it is important to light a fire underneath the new grad's butts so that they realize the urgency of how they need to be more efficient.



It's not just crowns. There's RCTs, fills, extractions, bridges, implants, and so on.... RCT usually accompanies crowns, fills take a couple of minutes, and so do extractions. Bridges are a force multiplier in terms of propping up number of units, Implants take a few minutes to place in many instances. Combine all of these in an amalgamation of income and you'll get much higher numbers than proposed above.



I'm not debating about what the data points are presenting, but where they got that data from. When we hear salary, we often think W2 wages. Does that include dentists who receive a 1099 or K1, or dentists that have S-corps/C-corps? I don't think we're in the outlier, many dentists in my area do a lot better than 200k. 200k is only about 16.7k/month. That is not very much dentistry.



That's the issue with a lot of dentists - they don't want to delegate things that can be delegated. 3 hour hygiene checks? Why does it take so long? With that time frame, you're already losing money unless you're doing LANAP or SRPs. We're not here to answer if cleanings are covered, your staff deals with that while you deal with things that actually produce income. If they don't like it, they can find a place that will waive their copay, and it's just better that way as you're getting them out of your chair, not having to hard sell them on a "cleaning", SRP, or whatever periodontal treatment they need. Want it? Get it, if not, please move so that we can make room for another paying patient. You also make your practice stronger by weeding out patients that want the cheap way out and/or have no interest in your clinical recommendations. I have made my office stronger throughout the years by not catering to them. I also don't have to feel like a sleazy salesperson by hard selling procedures.

It’s obvious from your first paragraph that you are def in the minority of dentists with income and workload. Most dentists are not doing 6 crowns a day or an hour. The average practice is doing 1-2 crowns a day with a few fills and misc procedures. I’ve never seen a practice doing 6. Round a day aside from your mega clinics. Your family doc in some office building prob works with 1-2 hygienists 1 assistant and a front for 20-30 years and collects 200k a year.

 

[D1Bound]

I am not 100% FFS. There's so much more than just crowns, but they are an integral part of the practice. With CEREC, you'd be able to do around 6 crowns an hour if you had multiple mills, scanners, and ovens (3-5 min scan, 3-5 min design, 3-5 min mill, 10 minute sintering time, adjustment and polish, cement). You're there primarily for the prep and delivery. Even at 180 dollars per crown, that takes about 10 mins of my time (me physically being there, not the chairtime), that's not a bad proposition. Maybe 1-2 crowns per hour if you just had one as you will be bottlenecked by equipment. I guess it is important to light a fire underneath the new grad's butts so that they realize the urgency of how they need to be more efficient.



It's not just crowns. There's RCTs, fills, extractions, bridges, implants, and so on.... RCT usually accompanies crowns, fills take a couple of minutes, and so do extractions. Bridges are a force multiplier in terms of propping up number of units, Implants take a few minutes to place in many instances. Combine all of these in an amalgamation of income and you'll get much higher numbers than proposed above.



I'm not debating about what the data points are presenting, but where they got that data from. When we hear salary, we often think W2 wages. Does that include dentists who receive a 1099 or K1, or dentists that have S-corps/C-corps? I don't think we're in the outlier, many dentists in my area do a lot better than 200k. 200k is only about 16.7k/month. That is not very much dentistry.



That's the issue with a lot of dentists - they don't want to delegate things that can be delegated. 3 hour hygiene checks? Why does it take so long? With that time frame, you're already losing money unless you're doing LANAP or SRPs. We're not here to answer if cleanings are covered, your staff deals with that while you deal with things that actually produce income. If they don't like it, they can find a place that will waive their copay, and it's just better that way as you're getting them out of your chair, not having to hard sell them on a "cleaning", SRP, or whatever periodontal treatment they need. Want it? Get it, if not, please move so that we can make room for another paying patient. You also make your practice stronger by weeding out patients that want the cheap way out and/or have no interest in your clinical recommendations. I have made my office stronger throughout the years by not catering to them. I also don't have to feel like a sleazy salesperson by hard selling procedures.

The milling and sintering times you mentioned seem faster than I have ever seen. What equipment do you have?

 

[LFA20]

4-6 crowns a day? lol

I do 1 a day. 2 if lucky.

Imagine thinking every private office is belting out x4/6 crowns as the norm… it’s not.

You own your own practice? Whats your take home per year? lol... How can you survive just doing 1-2 per day

 

[Thehighwind87]

You own your own practice? Whats your take home per year? lol... How can you survive just doing 1-2 per day

Believe it or not. Many family practices aka not mega clinics run like mine.

4 ops. 2 hygienists, 1 assistant, 1 front. 1 million collections 2024 with 55% overhead.

In my opinion unless you are a ffs cosmetic doc cutting 10 crowns smile makeover and or a mega clinic…. Cutting 4-6 crowns a day means you are probably over treating and over diagnosing.

If you are a normal bread and butter family practice that sees patient families for 20+ years and cutting 4-6 a day- on a 2k family chart yeah that’s not reasonable numbers. That means everytime a patient comes in for recall you are diagnosing a crown. Many of my patients go without any dental work for years.

My schedule this week tues-Thurs

2 crowns, a few seats, bunch of hygiene checks and misc fillings

 

[TanMan]

The milling and sintering times you mentioned seem faster than I have ever seen. What equipment do you have?

Cerec Primemill on superfast mode - premolars are about 3 minutes, molars are 5-6 mins. The advantage is that the primemill uses 2 burs at the same time on a 4 axis platform.

I use Katana One Speed (9.5 minute sintering times on the Cerec Speedfire). It makes a 35 minute molar crown attainable from start to finish.

Believe it or not. Many family practices aka not mega clinics run like mine.

4 ops. 2 hygienists, 1 assistant, 1 front. 1 million collections 2024 with 55% overhead.

In my opinion unless you are a ffs cosmetic doc cutting 10 crowns smile makeover and or a mega clinic…. Cutting 4-6 crowns a day means you are probably over treating and over diagnosing.

If you are a normal bread and butter family practice that sees patient families for 20+ years and cutting 4-6 a day- on a 2k family chart yeah that’s not reasonable numbers. That means everytime a patient comes in for recall you are diagnosing a crown. Many of my patients go without any dental work for years.

My schedule this week tues-Thurs

2 crowns, a few seats, bunch of hygiene checks and misc fillings

You're under the operating assumption that you're probably seeing a few patients a day. It is a matter of percentages; the size of your existing patient base in recall and the incoming NP/Limited exams relative to the number of procedures, no treatment, etc... I'd agree, if you're seeing 5-10 patients a day and cutting 4-6 a day, probably overtreatment unless you're doing a bunch of cosmetic work everyday. If you're seeing 40-90+ patients a day, not so much.

Your office does sound a little more of the traditional practice model though, and to each their own. I'd just be bored out of my mind if I didn't a sufficient volume of patients coming in.

 

[juniordentist]

I agree. Same thing with pharmacy and physical therapy. Education costs are ruining entire professions.

Dentists love to discuss their salary as if it's an indication of their skill. Dentists like the ego boost. The reality is, 90% of what determines how much money you make is a direct result of your location than anything else. It's not your skill. I made more as a dentist with 1 year experience than I did as a dentist with 7 years experience. Because the practice I was at 1 year out was in a less saturated area. And then the second practice I was at had more competition. A dentist with 1 yr experience can go rural and make more money than an experienced dentist in the city. So when I hear Dentists brag about how much they make I mostly just think "wow why are you living in an undesirable area that isn't saturated with dentists"

 

[Thehighwind87]

Cerec Primemill on superfast mode - premolars are about 3 minutes, molars are 5-6 mins. The advantage is that the primemill uses 2 burs at the same time on a 4 axis platform.

I use Katana One Speed (9.5 minute sintering times on the Cerec Speedfire). It makes a 35 minute molar crown attainable from start to finish.



You're under the operating assumption that you're probably seeing a few patients a day. It is a matter of percentages; the size of your existing patient base in recall and the incoming NP/Limited exams relative to the number of procedures, no treatment, etc... I'd agree, if you're seeing 5-10 patients a day and cutting 4-6 a day, probably overtreatment unless you're doing a bunch of cosmetic work everyday. If you're seeing 40-90+ patients a day, not so much.

Your office does sound a little more of the traditional practice model though, and to each their own. I'd just be bored out of my mind if I didn't a sufficient volume of patients coming in.

40-90 patients is mega clinic. Not the norm. You literally see more patients in 1 day then the average practice in 4 day work week

That’s why average 200k makes sense

 

[TanMan]

Dentists love to discuss their salary as if it's an indication of their skill. Dentists like the ego boost. The reality is, 90% of what determines how much money you make is a direct result of your location than anything else. It's not your skill. I made more as a dentist with 1 year experience than I did as a dentist with 7 years experience. Because the practice I was at 1 year out was in a less saturated area. And then the second practice I was at had more competition. A dentist with 1 yr experience can go rural and make more money than an experienced dentist in the city. So when I hear Dentists brag about how much they make I mostly just think "wow why are you living in an undesirable area that isn't saturated with dentists"

Saturation plays a role, definitely, as you're competing for a limited amount of patients. However, not every unsaturated area is an undesirable area and not everyone can succeed in an unsaturated area, it's just easier to succeed despite flaws. Personal flaws being unpersonable, slow AF, and/or unable to juggle/multitask many patients at a time. Other flaws are more systemic to the practice, such as terrible workflows and assistants. That can be present anywhere, regardless of location. Also, there is a misconception that more skill = more money. It is speed that elevates your income. The skill is there to reduce your liability and redos.

40-90 patients is mega clinic. Not the norm. You literally see more patients in 1 day then the average practice in 4 day work week

That’s why average 200k makes sense

This is why I hold the belief that a lot of dentists don't want to work hard, even if given the opportunity. I would rather be busy as it means two things: more money, and time goes way faster. When I go to work, I'm not there to watch videos, play games, or F* around - when schedules fall apart, which they do sometimes, I'd try to push all my patients up so I can go home faster. However, my practice is a bit more adaptive in that if there's a hole in the schedule, my staff can fill it up most of the time.

 

[JacquesVallee]

Dentists love to discuss their salary as if it's an indication of their skill. Dentists like the ego boost. The reality is, 90% of what determines how much money you make is a direct result of your location than anything else. It's not your skill. I made more as a dentist with 1 year experience than I did as a dentist with 7 years experience. Because the practice I was at 1 year out was in a less saturated area. And then the second practice I was at had more competition. A dentist with 1 yr experience can go rural and make more money than an experienced dentist in the city. So when I hear Dentists brag about how much they make I mostly just think "wow why are you living in an undesirable area that isn't saturated with dentists"

I agree with this. I moved somewhere rural and worked four days a week with a guaranteed 15k a month minimum or 33% production, whichever was greater. My job offers in the city I'm from were all 10k a month minimum on five days a week. Hilariously, I had one offer that was 8k a month minimum or like 28% production. I asked for the production numbers of the previous associate, and no joke the guy was only producing like 20-25k a month working five days a week lol. I told the owner I was taking a job that was guaranteeing me 15k a month and he couldn't believe someone offered that much.

 

[omfsing]

YES!!!!
Dentistry has been very good to me.
BUT dentistry is changing and I don't think it will be as good to the next generations.
---SO--- I would NOT tell an 18 year old me to do it today.

A simple “No” would have sufficed

 

[TanMan]

There's a solution for this.... get more patients and work faster.