Attention UHS Students!!!!

[jephyboy]

I am curious to hear about what the current MS-1 have to say about the new curriculum. How is the typical week scheduled (ie. labs, OMT labs, lectures, etc)? Is the new curriculum organized enough to be an effective method to learn all neededbasic sciences? Thanks in advance.

[This message has been edited by jephyboy (edited 02-20-2001).]

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[uhs04]

I think that the new curriculum at UHS very conducive to the learning and retainment of the basic sciences as well as allowing the integration of the basic sciences with the clinical sciences.
I want to stress that as an MS1 at UHS, I know nothing but the new curriculum. In other words, I don't know what it was like to learn under the old curriculum. With that understanding, I will try to keep my comments as unbiased as possible and to give you my overall opinion of the strengths and weaknesses of the new curriculum.
First of all, last time I checked, there were a few schools (both MD and DO) that were either converting or already had in place a systems based curriculum. Supposedly, the board tests are geared toward a systems based approach.
Some of the major strengths of our curriculum include; 1)it allows us to be presented with clinical scenarios from day one. This makes us think of the BIG picture (such as what we will encounter on rotations etc.) instead of shear memorization of details which sooner or later will have to be integrated anyway, 2)the way the testing is set up, we are presented with important information on our weekly quizzes, and then again on our final systems examination and then again on a final yearly examination. The weekly quizzes help me to keep on top of the information and to not get behind. And.....If you are anything like me, the more times you are presented with information or tested over that information, the better you retain it. 3) I personally believe that the integration of ALL of the basic sciences into one clinical presenting pathology allows you to better understand the clinical concepts which are critical to the understanding of medicine. I could continue on,.... if you have any questions as to what I perceive to be the assets of our school, send me an e-mail.
One weakness of the curriculum (which is also an asset), is that taking a quiz every single week can burn you out if you're not careful. But, again, the weekly quizzes help you to keep on top of your studies.
There are three test/system blocks per semester. Our first three were; Foundations of Medicine, Musculoskeletal, and Skin, Blood and Lymph. We get a grade for each section, so three grades per semester. This semester we have Respiratory, Cardiovascular (right now) and GI blocks. Here is my schedule for this week. Monday: 8 Internal Med (dyspnea/weakness CHF), 9 Anatomy (middle mediastinum), 10 Physiology (cardiac cycle), 11 OPP (neurology of somatic dysfunction), 1-3 OPP lab, 3-4 path lab. Tuesday: 8 Physio (cardiac output and contactility), 9 OPP, 10 Histology (heart), 2-3 Intro to clinical med lab (hypertension). Wednesday: 8 Anatomy (heart interior), 9 Anatomy (heart interior), 10 Histology (vascular systems), 11 Physio (flow and resistance), 1-4 Mock patient interviews. Thursday: 8 Embryology (vascular systems), 9 Pharmacology (cardiogenic agents), 10 Pharmacology (cardiac glycosides) 11 Pathology (cardiomyopathies), 1-3 Intro to clinical medicine lab (BP), 3-5 Anatomy Lab. Friday: 8 Physio (cardiac cycles abd heart sounds), 9 Anatomy (posterior mediastinum), 10-12 Interdepartmental review, 1-5 independent study.
This schedule is only a representation of this week (2/19-2/23). Labs are different for different sytems. We had a lot more anatomy labs in the musculoskeletal section etc. etc.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to e-mail me.

Ryan

 

[predoc0843]

Ryan

Is everything that was taught in the old curriculum taught in the new Genesis curriculum but in a different order? Or does the new curiculum leave certain ascepts out to concentrate on clinical material?

Thanks

 

[uhs04]

Everything that was covered under the old curriculum is taught under Genesis. We have four 1 hour morning lectures each day that are basically the basic sciences. These lectures, however, are tied by one clinical theme (such as congestive heart failure) each week. Although classes such as physiology are not a continuum (starting at chapter 1 and proceeding to the end of the book), each physiological concept is presented when it is most applicable to the system we are studying. They do a really good job of integrating the basic science lectures to the clinical concepts we are learning.
The basic sciences are emphasized during the morning lectures and in the afternoon we attend labs that are more clinically oriented in which we apply are basic science knowledge to clinical problems.
Another note, I don't know if it will be the same next year or not, but in the past the school would pay for you to have a tutor if you were pulling a C average. With the new curriculum, they will pay for any student that wants one. This has been very helpful for the anatomy lab practical examinations. They are also talking about bringing Kaplan in to help us prepare for step 1.
I don't think that they are providing these things for us because we are ill-prepared, but instead as additional resources to facilitate our learning.
The percentage of students that passed the boards under the old curriculum was very high and I honestly believe under the new curriculum it will even be higher. I believe this for two reasons; 1. the old pass rate was because we have awesome professors (and we still do) and 2. a systems based approach is the most efficacious way to learn medicine.
I hope I don't sound too high on my school, but it was my top choice last year and I haven't regretted it since.
I hope this answered your question. Again, feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.

Ryan

 

[joseph-arveson]

Originally posted by predoc0843:
Ryan

Is everything that was taught in the old curriculum taught in the new Genesis curriculum but in a different order? Or does the new curiculum leave certain ascepts out to concentrate on clinical material?

Thanks

Winfield?... I think I found another builder... don't let Charlie Hunter get away with throwing fits (if he still does! and I bet he does...)

JA

 

[ewagner]

Though I am not a member of the "new curriculum" student body, I can assure you that there ARE things left out. There were certain faculty that had BIG TIME opposition to the curriculum due to cuts in time on major topics. It is bound to happen...my major question was, and always has been "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The board scores of my class were the highest ever at UHS. The classes preceding us attained some prestigious residencies as well...and we continue to do so!
My question is why? They like to say "well the boards are shifting toward a more clinical approach" Well, who says that? Our faculty of PhD's who don't take the boards?? And anyway...the most clinical aspect of boards are found in step 2 and 3. And by that time, you have forgotten your first 2 years!
It is a grand experiement, and I hope the new classes succeed. But remember, some of the BEST medical schools still teach the life cycles of parasites (an example of "old curriculum")...sheer memorization...and yet they succeed quite well.

[This message has been edited by ewagner (edited 02-22-2001).]

 

[uhsnot]

jephyboy,
listen Genesis is not really as great as some people say...i'm an MS1 also and if i had it to do over again i would go somewhere else..please take all this "cheerleading" with a grain of salt..there are many unhappy people here..the vice president of ourclass left school in november and chose to sit out a year and go somewhere else than continue in this new program...we get very little basic science..we have not had a biochem class since before thanksgiving!...the scheduling is horrible (i.e. 5 pharmacology lectures the week of our final, quiz and anatomy practical)...everything is NOT rlated and intertwined..we are in cardiovascular section right now but we are going to work on the anatomy of the eye and ear in two weeks..i could go on and on..by the way all the professors here are not "AWESOME" , some are good, many are medicore at best and some are just terrible...some are openly opposed to this curriculum and one dept head even made the comment to a group of students that we are goin to be woefully underprepared for boards..so just a word of friendly advice before you drop your 28 k a year...RUN!

 

[predoc0843]

JA

Actually Charlie as mellowed a bit. He will occaisionally go off about still being in "high school" but overall he has calmed. Maybe in the last month I can catch him throwing a chair?

 

[Freeeedom!]

UHSNOT,
As a UHS student in his clinical rotations from UHS, I'm sorry your experience has been less than ideal. One must really ask...who decided to make the changes? perhaps a JD? Was this a marketing move?

 

[UHS03]

lol at the captain!! I thought everything UHS did was altruistic and motivated only by the best interests of the students!

ok...maybe not.

I can back up the claim that many faculty are not happy about the new curriculum. I agree that the system was working great and I don't understand why you mess with a curriculum that provides very high board pass rates. I have heard mixed reactions from the first years, but I have heard more frustration than acceptance. While most people I talk to seem to like the weekly quizzes they get (it forces them to stay up on stuff) many are frustrated at the order they learn things in. How can you be expected to understand pathology slides without completing a histo course yet? How can you understand pharm without finishing physio? This has been the biggest critcism I have heard.

 

[jephyboy]

Wow! I was a bit alarmed by the last couple of posters. Does the majority of the student body have such strong feelings as you, or are you in the minority, or is it 50/50? The program, in theory sounds great, but now I'm starting to worry a bit. This is the first real time that I've heard these kinds of feelings towards the curriculum. Could anyone please expound some more or perhaps counterbalance the previous remarks? Thanks

 

[MAAT]

jephyboy,

What do you really care what the percentage is? You seem to want us to help you put your rose colored glasses back on. I don't intend to sound mean, but if you think you are going to find any program that is fabulous you are off base. Every program has its pluses and minuses. The people here have given you some of them. YOU have to decide how that will effect YOUR ability to learn medicine. Other people validating what has been said or not said really won't change the fact that the curriculum has pluses as well as minuses.

SEEK TRUTH -- MAAT

 

[jephyboy]

MAAT,

You may not have meant to be mean, but you message, I don't think, was needed. Of course I know that this decision is mine and I must determine wether or not this is suitable for me. My point was that if the majority of the students are, in fact, not finding the curriculum useful, then there is a good chance that I won't find it useful. However, if it is only a minority of students that find this problematic, then this is likely be less of a problem. This is not intended to start any kind of argument. I asked how the other students felt about the curriculum to get an idea as to how wide spread this view was.

[This message has been edited by jephyboy (edited 02-23-2001).]

 

[uhsnot]

jephyboy,
i am not not trying to bash this school but it makes me angry when people portray it as such a great thing , when in reality there have been a lot of problems in structuring,scheduling and implementation...you have a big decision to make and no one should lead you down the primrose path, saying everything is perfect here...to be fair ..and honest... i would say everyone that i hang out with and talk to from school has some serious issues wih genesis and i am not alone in regretting my decision...(i wish someone had been honest with me last year and told me some of the problems they expected and the faculty's opposition)enough out of me and good luck to you

 

[jephyboy]

Thank you for your candidness. This is extremely helpful to me and, I'm sure, to others.

 

[MAAT]

. My point was that if the majority of the students are, in fact, not finding the curriculum useful, then there is a good chance that I won't find it useful. However, if it is only a minority of students that find this problematic, then this is likely be less of a problem.

No offense jephyboy but that's kind of flawed logic. How do you know you wouldn't be part of the minority that had a problem? The point of my post, which I think you missed, was that you shouldn't summarily dismiss any point of view based on a majority group that you don't know if you would be part of or not. There are good and bad at EVERY school. You need to sort those out for yourself, not based on others standards.

SEEK TRUTH -- MAAT

 

[jephyboy]

MAAT,

OK. I know that I have to sort this out, but I can't tell if it's going to be a problem unless I talk to other students. There isn't like a test drive before I enter. I've toured the school, but it isn't like I can be a student there for a semester before I decide what I decide on. That's the point of getting other's opinions; to find out what other people think about it so one can formulate one's opinion.
I don't know if it was something that I said in the orginal post, but you seem to be a bit overly aggressive in you posts. If it was something that I said, I know that I didn't mean anything bad by it. Sorry if I've offended or angered you in any way.

[This message has been edited by jephyboy (edited 02-23-2001).]

 

[MAAT]

jephyboy,

You didn't offend me and I'm not angery or intending to be aggressive. Tone of voice is difficult to tell with written text I guess.

If anything I would say I'm a little worried for you. Deciding on a school IS a big step and you seemed to only want to hear the good and shut out the bad. Of course you have to talk to others, but you have to be willing to listen to all that you hear, not just what would make things easier. I know it's really hard to hear bad stuff about something you might have had your heart set on, but I think it's better to get a dose of reality now than when you are in the weeds as an MS1. Someone wrote to me the other day that pre meds have a tendancy to be infatuated with the idea of medicine. I thought that was an outstanding perception that we all have to be careful of.

I think it's great you are asking the questions and for your sake hope you stay open to the answers. good luck

SEEK TRUTH -- MAAT

 

[Freeeedom!]

Just look at the name...Genesis. What a marketing load of crap!! Someone with a JD behind their name needs to realize medical school is about learning medicine, not to create "new and inventive ways of bringing in school revenue"!
We are students, and not products!

the captain has spoken...you are free to reproduce.

 

[jephyboy]

MAAT,

I guess I don't follow you too well. I wanted to hear the good and the bad things about the curriculum. No where do I say or even imply that I wanted to hear just good things about the curriculum. The reason that I'm worried about all this is that I've sent my money into the school to accept their acceptance. It's just that this was the first time that I've ever heard these things (about the student dislikes and faculty dislikes). I'm just concerned now, because I didn't even have an inkling about all this when I interviewed back in October. Of course, I just wished that I had talked to some more students before I accepted.

 

[richierich]

jephyboy,

I just want to give you something else to chew on, I am not a UHS student but I was accepted into the class of '04 there. For many different reasons including not wanting to be a test case, I chose to attend my state school. Just about two weeks ago, our administration approached us and informed us that not only are we loosing two weeks of vacation but, we will the firs class to test a system based approach here. You never know what is going to happen to the curriculum any where you chose to go. If you are happy with UHS do not let the curriculm stop you. As our administration told us, "..you will only remeber 5-7%,in the average student, of the basic science information any way..."
Also, the faculty will take look at what worked and what did not and hopefully make changes. Just be lucky that they will follow the same type of curriculum for both years. The proposed curriculum at my school includes a first year taught traditionally and a second year in a systems based approach. With the hopes that the first year faculty will conform (not likely, the will die first but that is not too far away any hoo.)

Good luck,

Richard

[This message has been edited by richierich (edited 02-23-2001).]

 

[MAAT]

Originally posted by jephyboy:
Could anyone please expound some more or perhaps counterbalance the previous remarks

Jephy -- that's the line that got me...especially the counterbalance thing.
It's not really important though. What is important is that you find some contentment with your decision.

You honestly didn't know about the issues with the curriculum? I didn't even apply to UHS and I was aware of the grumblings. That marketing arm that Freedom is griping about must have done one heck of a job...

Richard is right -- if you are happy with UHS don't let the curriculm stop you. What you learn will largely be up to you anyway. You just need to be aware of the down side so you can adapt to it, don't let it scare you off...embrace the reality and be glad you have a heads up. Good Luck.

SEEK TRUTH -- MAAT



[This message has been edited by MAAT (edited 02-24-2001).]

 

[uhsnot]

freedom,
it is getting to the point that no one will even discuss curriculum concerns with the students..we are pretty much being underserved in evry way..especially when you consider that tuition is slated to increase 6% next year..any school run by a bunch of JDs should be a little suspect..my fault for falling for the pitch

also...as far as richie rich's post..i think a systems based 2nd year may be helpful for you when you begin rotations..at least you have the first year to get a little foundation so you know what the hell they are talking about in the second year...but really i think that you do not tinker with something just for the sake of making a change so you can pat everyone on the back and tell them how innovative you all are..i'm sorry they pulled that crap on you guys

 

[kmaha]

jephyboy:
I sent my 500 to UHS on Thursday (22 Feb), and felt very much "at peace" with my decision-- then I stumbled upon your post. What was your final decision? I am now worried, b/c one of my concerns with UHS was the new curriculum, and whether the presentation of material would appear fragmented, instead of more straightforward as in traditional curricula. (Ex: someone mentioned how to learn pharm w/o phys). I somewhat dismissed this concern of mine, but I am now more concerned b/c people are having problems with exactly what I predicted I might have a problem with (not learning info in a straightforward manner)! Thanks for everyone else's input, it's good to hear the "other side" of the story.

Thanks

 

[uhs04]

The main problem I have with the curriculum is the whining and the crying that has come with it from some of the students. It's like that was a question they asked during the interview last year, "do you complain about everything? Well good, you're in"
Other than that, I like it.
I have to ask those MS1 students that think things are so bad, what did you expect?... for everything to be perfect, .. for there not to be any scheduling problems, ... for all concepts to perfectly click together so that you don't have to put any effort into your medical education? Sure, they scheduled the curriculum meeting over Christmas break and gave us 5 lectures on antibiotics during our 6th week of the respiratory section(which was,yes, damn stupid), sure some professors didn't like the change, sure not every class fits into the scheme and sure not every professor is "awesome", but for the most part, I feel that they have done well with Genesis. If it is as bad as you say, you can always follow Greg (which by the way is more complex than that which was previously stated).
As much as it "makes you angry when people portray it as such a great thing", it makes me angry when people portray it as such a bad thing. It's not that bad. In fact, I think it's a pretty damn good way to learn medicine.
I think that it is easy to complain when you can stay anonymous such as here or for CQI . I thought it was completely pathetic when some students complained about quiz bank and some of ERF's teaching methods and then sat silent when he asked us as a class what he could do to better our education.
I'm sorry to sound so blunt and I'm not trying to personally attack anyone. But, as strongly as you feel one way, I (and "my" friends) feel another. I agree 100% that it is important to weigh all sides, I think that it is by no means as bad as you made it sound.

R. Rich

 

[jephyboy]

Originally posted by uhs04:

Sure, they scheduled the curriculum meeting over Christmas break and gave us 5 lectures on antibiotics during our 6th week of the respiratory section(which was,yes, damn stupid). . .

R. Rich

Can someone tell me what this "Christmas break" episode was about? Doesn't sound like good news.

Thanks

 

[UHS03]

As a current first year, I am curious about your opinion uhs04. I have heard from some of your classmates that things are not presented in a logical order. For instance, you are expected to competently identify path slides without a solid histo foundation. Is this true and was/is it a current problem? This is really the main complaint I had heard (and it was one I mainly heard toward the beginning of the year.)

PS..Anyone whining about quizbank needs to look at the alternative...more ERF questions. Does anyone really want that?

 

[ewagner]

Not a single person should whine about quizbank...it is ERF's attempt to pass all of you. As I look back at my first 2 years, ERF was my favorite and most knowledgeable professor! I use more Path info than anything...certainly more than OMT!
Anyway, make the best of it, no school is immune to problems. I just think it was unwise to change a curriculum that was finally working...and change it to an unproven idea. Good for Harvard does not equate to Good for a small, little-known DO school in Missouri.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Captain Freeeedom is speaking!

6% increase in tuition? Jeez o pete! They are not getting a single dime from the Captain!
Does Karen still get her Lexus washed in front of the students near the bookstore??

 

[uhsnot]

i have not heard anyone "crying" on here...you can justify it all you want but the fact remains that it is unorganized and overall it is poorly done and i nor anyone else i know came to med school with the idea of participating in some grand experiment that will enhance the reputation of this school...the ONLY reason i posted on here was to counter the false portrayal of this curriculum in your original post and now you are hurt that you got called on it...if you don't like it then don't post bull**** especially to someone who does not know any better

 

[uhs04]

Do you think this is some kind of a game??? You didn't call me on anything.

Most if not every student from UHS that has talked to me about your posts knows that your comments are skewed, biased and unrealistic. The problem I have is that people reading your posts may not understand this.
You, for some reason, seem resentful that they (the school) somehow sold you on their deceitful lies about Genesis and as a result you are here. Again, I ask you, what in the h*** did you expect? I almost can't believe your naivety in thinking that things may have been any different. Maybe we can throw a uhsnot parade for you and hoist you onto our shoulders yelling "uhsnot, uhsnot" .... I don't know what else you expect from the curriculum or how the school has let you down so much. Your whole logic seems to be, "well they once sheduled a pathology class before a histology one, so,,,, all systems based curricula and the school suck, or,,,,,,,uuhh they once scheduled 5 antibiotics lectures in one week, ,, so the school sucks - avoid it like the plague. One of your complaints was that we actually have to learn the gross anatomy of the eye during the cardiovascular section. Well I'll be da**ed, kinda crazy since were doing systems based and there's no eye system on the menu. Makes sense to hit it somewhere along the road, don't you think?
If you want to sit around home in the corner and complain about how bad your life sucks, that's fine. Just don't present your messed up views as those of the whole. .... because,,,, they're not!

R. Rich

 

[uhs04]

Originally posted by jephyboy:
Can someone tell me what this "Christmas break" episode was about? Doesn't sound like good news.

Thanks

It was nothing. I just had to appease the whining one. Basically we usually have a student representative at all curriculum meetings, but they had one over Christmas break which made it kinda hard. For the most part, they have listened and made modifications according to our concerns.

 

[dreamTeam]

The new curriculum at UHS. This seems to be a hot topic these days. As an MS1--all of you future UHS students need to pay attention to this. We--the Class of 2004 are the guinea pigs for this program and because of this, we have been through some challenging times. I entered medical school expecting that it would be challenging, you'd be foolish not to. Even now, changes(for the better) are being made to the curriculum based on what our class has managed to say and the faculty has listened. Having your big sis/big bro for next year will be a tremendous help to you for they will be a good resource for all kinds of information. We, the Class of 2004 don't have that same luxury, but that's ok--we have each other to get us through the rough spots. Learning the pathology with ERF early has been great. The histology for each section is already incorporated into the material. It's pretty impressive when the MS1's can identify things when prompted in class by clinicians. The boards are changing the way they are asking their questions. Other schools will soon follow suit when it comes to their own curriculum. Better now than later. UHS is a great school. Don't be frigthened by changes--especially since you won't be testing the waters when you get there. Just be patient as the Class of 2004 paves the way for the rest of you.

 

[uhsnot]

you jackass
i am not whining about my life, i ONLY joined this thing to post so i could let everyone have a different perspective than your load of crap...but MY perspective is skewed not yours right?...i point out the probelms which you so convieniently ignored and you react like a hysterical little girl..."a uhsnot parade" , wow that was clever! did you make that up all by yourself or did all your friends who have no problems with the curriculum help you?
i can assure the rest of you guys, as evidenced by posts other than from this fool that negative feelings about this curriculum abound and i am not some basket case crying in the corner..there are legitimate problems here and they are things that prospective students should be aware of in order to make an educated decision
that being said i have nothing else to say on this post except good luck to you jephyboy

p.s. save your asinine reply because i won't be back...you will be free to mislead whomever you choose..try not to get your panties in a bunch

 

[uhs04]

Oh, you'll be back. You may not post, but you'll be back.
I stand behind every comment I made in my original post. Sure everything has not been scheduled the best at times (which should be understood), but a systems based curriculum (in my opinion) is the best way to learn medicine, we have awesome professors and if I had to make the decision again, there would be no question that I would choose UHS again.

R. Rich

[This message has been edited by uhs04 (edited 03-01-2001).]

 

[grich]

I like Genesis. I have many great things to say about it. I don't mind not having as much biochem in exchange for more clinical lectures, of which will be much more beneficial in the future. I lied, I do have a problem with Genesis. Its the few crying students who do more complaining than good. In my experience the complaining is from students who are not excelling or doing well so they feel they have to blame it on someone else, instead of where the blame belongs. If the JD's did this to rep the school - then good for them. You won't hear me complain complain about something that will bring attention and money to a school.