Attorney contemplating postbac -> med school

[skico]

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Hello all,

I realize this topic has been covered before (and believe me, I've read those threads multiple times by now) but this forum has been really helpful to me and I thought I might post since my situation is different from most others in one key respect.

But first, a bit of background. I'm 29 right now and came out of undergrad with a psych degree and 3.6 GPA. While in undergrad, I definitely considered med school but being foolish and immature, decided not to take the pre-med classes since they seemed like more work than the easy psych classes that I was in. That said, science has always been a particular interest of mine and I know that have the knack to succeed in post bac and beyond if I go down that road.

In any event, I ended up going to law school, doing quite well and getting what most consider to be a great job (which I'm currently about 1 year into). Problem is that there is absolutely nothing about it that inspires any passion in me. I've barely been there a year and I'm already just going through the motions. I never saw myself pushing paper at a desk with infrequent personal interaction with those I'm supposed to be helping and yet, that is where I've ended up. I've looked into other types of legal work that would have me dealing with people and clients more often, but even in those (legal aid, public defender, etc..) the personal interaction is infrequent and most of your time is still spent drafting and in other impersonal activities.

So I've told you what I dislike about a legal practice but I know that what draws me to medicine is far more important. My brother just finished his MS1 year and hearing about what he is doing makes me profoundly envious. The cliche "I want to help people" rationale does apply to me but I think there is so much more. I've always had an interest in the sciences but failed to pursue them when I was younger due to pure foolishness and laziness. Now though, just thinking about going back to school to study the health sciences gets me excited in a way that I haven't felt since college. On top of that, I've never been a desk person. Medicine appeals because it's intellectually demanding while allowing you to be on your feet, hands on, and interacting with people (for better or worse) on a daily basis. I understand these thoughts are pretty threadbare but its all preliminary at this point and I intend to start volunteering in a clinical setting in the next couple weeks to get a better idea.

Now here is where my situation differs drastically from most others on this forum. I came out of law school debt free and will be able to save up quite a bit of money before starting post bac classes. I also have a small but saved inheritance from a couple years ago. As such, while I would incur debt, it would not be cumulative to prior existing debt and I may be able to avoid incurring up to 30% of the debt that would come out of med school.

So that's about it. I suppose I'm just looking for thoughts from those who have made a total career shift in their early 30s. I understand that post bac classes would take about 1.5 years, + MCAT prep, + application cycle. There are a few law2md folks around here too and I would be particularly interested in hearing from them as well. In the mean time, I'm just reading more and more threads about how rough and disruptive this choice can be but I haven't been able to shake this nagging feeling that it is the right course.

Thanks for reading and I'd appreciate any comments.

Edit: I suppose I should at least ask a more specific question. My current job leaves me no time for classes but I may be able to get a more regular 40 hour week job that would allow night classes. I'm wondering if it makes more sense to do that or to just go back to school full time and knock out the classes while volunteering and shadowing. I would prefer to have some income during all this but at 29, I'm thinking it would be worth saving the time. Any thoughts?

 

[VictorAlpha]

I might start part-time and rachet it up once you are started and even more sure this is the route you want to take.

The other thought I had is that you might want to start shadowing a little and volunteering with physicians to really be sure that you love medicine and not school....from what you wrote, I don't think it sounds like you but good to make sure.

Also, you should keep your law license up to date if you do it; those two degrees together could open a lot of doors #jealous

Good Luck

 

[skico]

Thanks for the comment.

At this point, I plan to start volunteering at a hospital for 4 hours a week, which is about as much as I think I can manage in my current position. As soon as I make the jump to some sort of part time law position, I have already disrupted my career immensely, and yet I'm ready to do it tomorrow. Nevertheless, I think a few months of volunteering should help me make sure this is the right decision.

And on that topic, what sort of volunteering should I pursue? When I was in high school, I volunteered at a hospital cleaning up ORs. Should it be something along those lines? I've thought about shadowing but I dont think I can take the time with my current job. I see it as something that comes later if I decide to pursue my post bac full time.

 

[Goro]

Sorry, but could you re-phrase the question without the novella?

Hello all,

I realize this topic has been covered before (and believe me, I've read those threads multiple times by now) but this forum has been really helpful to me and I thought I might post since my situation is different from most others in one key respect.

But first, a bit of background. I'm 29 right now and came out of undergrad with a psych degree and 3.6 GPA. While in undergrad, I definitely considered med school but being foolish and immature, decided not to take the pre-med classes since they seemed like more work than the easy psych classes that I was in. That said, science has always been a particular interest of mine and I know that have the knack to succeed in post bac and beyond if I go down that road.

In any event, I ended up going to law school, doing quite well and getting what most consider to be a great job (which I'm currently about 1 year into). Problem is that there is absolutely nothing about it that inspires any passion in me. I've barely been there a year and I'm already just going through the motions. I never saw myself pushing paper at a desk with infrequent personal interaction with those I'm supposed to be helping and yet, that is where I've ended up. I've looked into other types of legal work that would have me dealing with people and clients more often, but even in those (legal aid, public defender, etc..) the personal interaction is infrequent and most of your time is still spent drafting and in other impersonal activities.

So I've told you what I dislike about a legal practice but I know that what draws me to medicine is far more important. My brother just finished his MS1 year and hearing about what he is doing makes me profoundly envious. The cliche "I want to help people" rationale does apply to me but I think there is so much more. I've always had an interest in the sciences but failed to pursue them when I was younger due to pure foolishness and laziness. Now though, just thinking about going back to school to study the health sciences gets me excited in a way that I haven't felt since college. On top of that, I've never been a desk person. Medicine appeals because it's intellectually demanding while allowing you to be on your feet, hands on, and interacting with people (for better or worse) on a daily basis. I understand these thoughts are pretty threadbare but its all preliminary at this point and I intend to start volunteering in a clinical setting in the next couple weeks to get a better idea.

Now here is where my situation differs drastically from most others on this forum. I came out of law school debt free and will be able to save up quite a bit of money before starting post bac classes. I also have a small but saved inheritance from a couple years ago. As such, while I would incur debt, it would not be cumulative to prior existing debt and I may be able to avoid incurring up to 30% of the debt that would come out of med school.

So that's about it. I suppose I'm just looking for thoughts from those who have made a total career shift in their early 30s. I understand that post bac classes would take about 1.5 years, + MCAT prep, + application cycle. There are a few law2md folks around here too and I would be particularly interested in hearing from them as well. In the mean time, I'm just reading more and more threads about how rough and disruptive this choice can be but I haven't been able to shake this nagging feeling that it is the right course.

Thanks for reading and I'd appreciate any comments.

Edit: I suppose I should at least ask a more specific question. My current job leaves me no time for classes but I may be able to get a more regular 40 hour week job that would allow night classes. I'm wondering if it makes more sense to do that or to just go back to school full time and knock out the classes while volunteering and shadowing. I would prefer to have some income during all this but at 29, I'm thinking it would be worth saving the time. Any thoughts?

 

[VictorAlpha]

Thanks for the comment.

At this point, I plan to start volunteering at a hospital for 4 hours a week, which is about as much as I think I can manage in my current position. As soon as I make the jump to some sort of part time law position, I have already disrupted my career immensely, and yet I'm ready to do it tomorrow. Nevertheless, I think a few months of volunteering should help me make sure this is the right decision.

And on that topic, what sort of volunteering should I pursue? When I was in high school, I volunteered at a hospital cleaning up ORs. Should it be something along those lines? I've thought about shadowing but I dont think I can take the time with my current job. I see it as something that comes later if I decide to pursue my post bac full time.

volunteering that is high-patient contact. Look for free clinics in the area. I found one that I could do patient intake and then shadow on visits with the physicians. I had a lot of opportunity to have lots of contact with patients.

 

[mssmith4]

Your story sounds almost identical to mine. Growing up with a science teacher dad, science has always been a passion of mine. After high school, I enlisted in the Marine Corps, did my time, and was eventually honorably discharged. Although I graduated with a 4.0 from high school, when I returned to college, I was either lazy, afraid, or too interested in partying to pursue a pre-med curriculum at that time. I double-majored in Insurance and Managerial Finance and graduated with a 3.55. I continued on to law school.

After graduating law school, like you, I lucked up and got what most would consider a great job working at a very large firm and making a very good salary. Having always been very active, including my time in the Corps, I never pictured myself pushing paper, attached at the hip to a desk day in and day out. After a very short time (like weeks), I knew law was not my future. Due to various family issues and hoping my feelings would change, I put off making any moves for two years. Finally, last year, at the age of 29 and with my wife in agreement, I returned to school.

Having not taken any science courses in undergrad except principles of biology -- which doesn't satisfy med school pre-reqs -- I started from the ground. Luckily, the local state school is fine with community college credits, especially for working non-traditionals. Last fall, I took Bio I (w/ lab), Chem I (w/ Lab), and Physics I (w/ Lab). I continued working 50-60 hours a week. I just started going in around 6:30-7:00 in the morning since I was leaving around 5:15 for my night classes. Each class was one night a week from 5:30-10:00 (11:00 for chemistry). With a lot of hard work and sleepless nights, I finished with a 4.0.

Last spring, I returned and finished Bio II, Chem II, and Physics II (and all labs), and finished with another 4.0. Against most peoples' advice, I took the MCAT last Thursday (6/20) without taking Organic. I just studied the basic orgo concepts on my own and hoped for the best. I think it turned out well for me, but we'll see in a month. Knowing I want to go to the local state MD school, I applied this cycle EDP.

Here's my advice: if this is your dream and what you want to do -- GO FOR IT! Don't let others questions or discourage you. People will look at you like an idiot when you tell them you want to pursue medical school. I've always seen this as my dream, and if I don't fight for it, certainly no one else is. I have not regretted one second. Unlike as an immature undergrad, I actually looked forward to class and really enjoyed it, especially the variation from my everyday routine. I have a good friend who did the same thing. He just graduated med school and will start his residency in anesthesia next month. He says it's the best decision he's ever made.

Hope this helps. Sorry for being long-winded. I'll be glad to exchange emails or whatnot if you want.

 

[skico]

Sorry, but could you re-phrase the question without the novella?

Touche. After spending a couple more days ruminating on all of this, I think my questions can be distilled down to the following:

• What types of volunteer experience should I pursue? At this point I have signed up to volunteer 3 hours a week in an ER would free clinic experience be better?
• I keep reading that us career changers should look before we leap... would not shadowing until starting post bac or at least leaving my current job pose an issue for ad coms?
• Will only practicing for 1 year count against me in a big way? Or should I be able to accrue enough shadowing and volunteering hours to demonstrate that I know I've made the right decision and am not simply flaky?
• Lastly, and this is a big one, if my current employers aren't exactly supportive of this decision and would be unlikely to write a good recommendation (not because I didn't do well here but because I think leaving so early would leave a really sour taste in their mouths), can other recommendations from teachers, volunteer coordinators, shadowed physicians, etc.. over come this?

Thanks again for your comments!

 

[Goro]

We want to see demonstrations of your altruism, that you know what you're getting into, and you know what a doctor's day is like. Keep in mind that we want to train good doctors, not merely good students.

Either ER or free clinic work is good; experiencing both would be even better. But you have to start somewhere, so pick what's more interesting to you, or what best fits your schedule.

• 
  [*]What types of volunteer experience should I pursue? At this point I have signed up to volunteer 3 hours a week in an ER would free clinic experience be better?
  
  
  
  That's fine. You should be able to do some shadowing either doing you're post-bac, or even here and there. Whenever we see someone change a career, we do wonder if they have commitment issues, but we can suss that out at interview. We definitely understand hat non-trad students have a life, and not everyone can chuck it to go back to school.
  
  
  [*]I keep reading that us career changers should look before we leap... would not shadowing until starting post bac or at least leaving my current job pose an issue for ad coms?
  
  
  Nope...plenty of people realize that the career they're in isn't what they've wanted. I just recommend starting the patient contact experience early so that YOU know you've made the right choice.
  
  [*]Will only practicing for 1 year count against me in a big way? Or should I be able to accrue enough shadowing and volunteering hours to demonstrate that I know I've made the right decision and am not simply flaky?
  
  
  We expect that, and prefer the LORs come from people who can attest to your academic prowess, and reliability, and humanity. So don't sweat getting a LOR from the Partners.
  
  
  [*]Lastly, and this is a big one, if my current employers aren't exactly supportive of this decision and would be unlikely to write a good recommendation (not because I didn't do well here but because I think leaving so early would leave a really sour taste in their mouths), can other recommendations from teachers, volunteer coordinators, shadowed physicians, etc.. over come this?

 

[Legally Insane]

After practicing law for 25 years, I did a post bacc and am now starting my third year in medical school. My advice is to be patient. Putting another year or two of practice under your belt will give you more credibility in your decision to switch professions and will enable you to build up a war chest to avoid debt as much as possible. In the meantime, you can prepare for the transition process by volunteering and by learning chemistry and physics on your own via itunes university and other resources. That will give you a tremendous advantage when you start a post bacc program. With respect to volunteering, you may want to consider expanding it it include providing pro bono legal services through free clinics in your area. I know that it might not seem like it to you right now, but time really is on your side. Take it from someone who got a much later start on the journey. God bless you.

 

[skico]

After practicing law for 25 years, I did a post bacc and am now starting my third year in medical school. My advice is to be patient. Putting another year or two of practice under your belt will give you more credibility in your decision to switch professions and will enable you to build up a war chest to avoid debt as much as possible. In the meantime, you can prepare for the transition process by volunteering and by learning chemistry and physics on your own via itunes university and other resources. That will give you a tremendous advantage when you start a post bacc program. With respect to volunteering, you may want to consider expanding it it include providing pro bono legal services through free clinics in your area. I know that it might not seem like it to you right now, but time really is on your side. Take it from someone who got a much later start on the journey. God bless you.

Thanks for the advice. You definitely came to that decision with a lot more experience and I'm sure heading to med school was far more disruptive for you at that point than it will be for me. And you're right, at 29, three years minimum from med school, it really does not feel like time is on my side.

Do you plan to use your legal background in your new career? are you keeping your license? I imagine working CLEs into your med school schedule would be a nightmare.

 

[Legally Insane]

I am keeping my license because too much work went into getting it in the first place. I may do some medical/legal consulting on the side, but I plan on providing primary patient care as my main practice. CLE is not bad now that you can take courses online. I grab and hour here and there and cram a few more in just before it is due.