Attorney thinking of med school

[JayDee33]

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Hi all, I have been reading these forums and find them very useful. I have read similar threads but everyone's situation is unique in some way so I thought I would post my story here and see if anyone has any advice/experiences to share.

I am an immigrant--came to the US when I was 18 with very little knowledge of English but a definite goal of becoming an attorney. At the time, I had largely idealized notions of the legal profession and was attracted to the profession as I saw lawyers as witty, smart and intelligent and a lawyer's job as an interesting, challenging, fulfilling and financially attractive one (all of that without having met a single attorney in person).

I went to a community college, learned English, transferred to a four year university, graduated with a close to 4.0 GPA majoring in Economics, took the LSAT, did well (93 percentile) and immediately after undergrad, went to law school at the same university (top 20). I found law school to be very challenging but interesting. My professors were brilliant and so were the classmates. It was also a humbling experience as I realized I was by far not the smartest student who set the curve any more (which had been my perception of myself in undergrad). All in all, law school years were very formative and educational.

Currently, I am a 33-year-old attorney. I have been practicing for 7 years. I work in a mid-size law firm. I love my coworker's and the partners at the firm. The work environment is not very stressful even though I usually do work a lot of hours (usually 9-7, and sometimes weekends) but the work itself is not very stressful and the job is flexible. I can choose to work from home whenever I do not have court or depositions which is a big plus as I have two children (2 and 3 years old).

So I am not hating my life and my job right now but I cannot help but feel quite unfulfilled. My work is acceptable and at times, even enjoyable, but I am not passionate about it. Through the nature of the area of practice that I have, I am in regular contact with doctors (largely orthopedic surgeons), and I have a lot of respect for those doctors--they make a difference on an individual and immediate level, which is not possible the same way in most other service fields, including law. I have also had to have a lot of contact with doctors in my personal life as my mother got diagnosed with cancer. Mother does not speak English well and I have had to take charge of arranging her medical care (both financially and also choosing doctors, researching treatments and going to her medical appointments with her). This whole experience has made me realize how vulnerable we are when we or our loved ones have serious health issues and that nothing is more important than good health. I have looked up to my mother's doctors for help and hope. The doctors made a difference. It must feel gratifying to know you can make such a difference, and that is what I am lacking in my job and that is what I crave.

So I have been thinking/dreaming that maybe it is not too late for me to make a switch to the medical profession. I realize it won't be an easy road by any means and that it will involve a lot of sacrifices both from me and my family/kids. But is this even a realistic possibility? Also, financially, I have responsibilities including taking care of my children and parents. So I am worried about that, as well. I do not have a lot of loans from law school as I had scholarships and borrowed very conservatively. I would not mind borrowing generously during medical school. But do they even allow you to borrow enough to pay not only for school but also to be able to support a family. I understand working would be out of question during med school, but what about the the time leading to med school. I did not take any science classes in undergrad (I will only have the math requirements as Econ involved a great deal of math). But any post-bac program i have looked at is a full time program that will not allow me to work. Is it possible to do the med school requirements while also working?

I apologize for the length of my post. I welcome and appreciate any thoughts/suggestions any one may have.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

It's basically 2 years of full-time work - followed by a gap year - to apply. 3 if you are willing to do part time - and note it's going to eat every second of your free time. And you have to ace the MCAT. and shadowing and volunteering. And letters from sci profs and physicians.

It's a little crazy to do that from a good career that you enjoy, but of course it is your life.

 

[DocJanItor]

Yeah, I'm going to echo Tiger. If you're moderately satisfied with your work and life, I wouldn't change it. You make great money, your family is probably happy and stable. You may be idealizing medicine the same way you did with the legal profession. If you switch, you have about 3 years before med school, 4 years of school, and at least 2 years of residency. That's a significant investment of time and effort at a time where you could easily stay where you are, make way more money, and have more time with your family. This doesn't even factor in the risk of not doing well or being unhappy with it.

Like Tiger said, it's your life, but I think you'd be much better off to stay where you're already successful and stable.

 

[JayDee33]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I realize there will be sacrifices, and this is just something I have been thinking about recently but haven't taken any steps toward anything yet. Are the shadowing and volunteering requirements or just something to make an applicant stand out from the crowd? If I were to take the post bacc classes and do well (assuming I will--again I never took science classes) and let's say, I do well on the MCAT, would that be sufficient, you think?

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I realize there will be sacrifices, and this is just something I have been thinking about recently but haven't taken any steps toward anything yet. Are the shadowing and volunteering requirements or just something to make an applicant stand out from the crowd? If I were to take the post bacc classes and do well (assuming I will--again I never took science classes) and let's say, I do well on the MCAT, would that be sufficient, you think?

Shadowing is a soft requirement. No one really gets admitted without it - a handful of high stats (ie 520+, which is extremely hard to do) with wild cards like research or having a parent on the adcom or something.

 

[DocJanItor]

Shadowing and volunteering are absolutely required. Although some schools will understand if you have professional obligations, you'll still be expected to have significant clinical experience (~100 hours shadowing) and underserved volunteering (~250 absolute minimum).

But yes, if you do all that, get good grades in your pre-reqs, and get a decent MCAT (510+), then you'll have a good chance of being interviewed.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Hi all, I have been reading these forums and find them very useful. I have read similar threads but everyone's situation is unique in some way so I thought I would post my story here and see if anyone has any advice/experiences to share.

I am an immigrant--came to the US when I was 18 with very little knowledge of English but a definite goal of becoming an attorney. At the time, I had largely idealized notions of the legal profession and was attracted to the profession as I saw lawyers as witty, smart and intelligent and a lawyer's job as an interesting, challenging, fulfilling and financially attractive one (all of that without having met a single attorney in person).

I went to a community college, learned English, transferred to a four year university, graduated with a close to 4.0 GPA majoring in Economics, took the LSAT, did well (93 percentile) and immediately after undergrad, went to law school at the same university (top 20). I found law school to be very challenging but interesting. My professors were brilliant and so were the classmates. It was also a humbling experience as I realized I was by far not the smartest student who set the curve any more (which had been my perception of myself in undergrad). All in all, law school years were very formative and educational.

Currently, I am a 33-year-old attorney. I have been practicing for 7 years. I work in a mid-size law firm. I love my coworker's and the partners at the firm. The work environment is not very stressful even though I usually do work a lot of hours (usually 9-7, and sometimes weekends) but the work itself is not very stressful and the job is flexible. I can choose to work from home whenever I do not have court or depositions which is a big plus as I have two children (2 and 3 years old).

So I am not hating my life and my job right now but I cannot help but feel quite unfulfilled. My work is acceptable and at times, even enjoyable, but I am not passionate about it. Through the nature of the area of practice that I have, I am in regular contact with doctors (largely orthopedic surgeons), and I have a lot of respect for those doctors--they make a difference on an individual and immediate level, which is not possible the same way in most other service fields, including law. I have also had to have a lot of contact with doctors in my personal life as my mother got diagnosed with cancer. Mother does not speak English well and I have had to take charge of arranging her medical care (both financially and also choosing doctors, researching treatments and going to her medical appointments with her). This whole experience has made me realize how vulnerable we are when we or our loved ones have serious health issues and that nothing is more important than good health. I have looked up to my mother's doctors for help and hope. The doctors made a difference. It must feel gratifying to know you can make such a difference, and that is what I am lacking in my job and that is what I crave.

So I have been thinking/dreaming that maybe it is not too late for me to make a switch to the medical profession. I realize it won't be an easy road by any means and that it will involve a lot of sacrifices both from me and my family/kids. But is this even a realistic possibility? Also, financially, I have responsibilities including taking care of my children and parents. So I am worried about that, as well. I do not have a lot of loans from law school as I had scholarships and borrowed very conservatively. I would not mind borrowing generously during medical school. But do they even allow you to borrow enough to pay not only for school but also to be able to support a family. I understand working would be out of question during law school, but what about the the time leading to med school. I did not take any science classes in undergrad (I will only have the math requirements as Econ involved a great deal of math). But any post-bac program i have looked at is a full time program that will not allow me to work. Is it possible to do the med school requirements while also working?

I apologize for the length of my post. I welcome and appreciate any thoughts/suggestions any one may have.

I have done every science prerequisite and EC while working more than full time and having a wife and kids. It is slower for sure. I started at the beginning of 2014 and I'm only now applying. But on the plus side I don't feel like I've been forced to neglect my career or family.

Had I been single and less far along in my career, I probably would have gone all in with a full time post bacc. But for those of us with families to support or careers we're reluctant to give up without knowing for sure we're going to get into med school, there are other ways.

 

[operaman]

I've known a couple of attorneys who made the switch - one who dropped out early in ms1 when he saw just how much medicine and med school would pull him away from family and he didn't want to miss that much of his kids' growing up. The other is currently a resident but will tell anyone that it has been taxing from a family perspective. Both are very brilliant guys who had no trouble with the workload.
I suppose the most prudent advice would be to look for ways to do similarly fulfilling work within your current profession.

The "requirements" for med school regarding numbers of hours of shadowing and volunteering and whatnot are very soft. I had nothing remotely close to what people are quoting above and it didn't seem to hurt me at all. For non trads, they want to know that you've thoroughly explored the medical field and fully understand what you're getting yourself in to.

If you have enough savings, doing this full time is definitely faster. My whole career transition was less than one year but I did it kinda out of order (mcat, applied, then started diy post bacc during the application time, accepted, started ms1). I wouldn't advise anyone do it that way, but just saying that the rules are not always as set in stone as people think. Sometimes a phone call or two to admissions can reveal a particular school is more flexible in how they review things. Obviously you would have more options doing it in the usual order.

All that said, it's been a fun ride so far and gets more fun every day. I thoroughly loved med school, though in retrospect I can't believe I was able to sit still and study so much during the first two years. Residency has been far more work but also far more fulfilling. It definitely eats a lot of your time though, and there is a certain unpredictability that makes it doubly difficult. Making dinner plans is a surefire way to guarantee a 4:55 emergency!

 

[DocJanItor]

I've known a couple of attorneys who made the switch - one who dropped out early in ms1 when he saw just how much medicine and med school would pull him away from family and he didn't want to miss that much of his kids' growing up. The other is currently a resident but will tell anyone that it has been taxing from a family perspective. Both are very brilliant guys who had no trouble with the workload.
I suppose the most prudent advice would be to look for ways to do similarly fulfilling work within your current profession.

The "requirements" for med school regarding numbers of hours of shadowing and volunteering and whatnot are very soft. I had nothing remotely close to what people are quoting above and it didn't seem to hurt me at all. For non trads, they want to know that you've thoroughly explored the medical field and fully understand what you're getting yourself in to.

If you have enough savings, doing this full time is definitely faster. My whole career transition was less than one year but I did it kinda out of order (mcat, applied, then started diy post bacc during the application time, accepted, started ms1). I wouldn't advise anyone do it that way, but just saying that the rules are not always as set in stone as people think. Sometimes a phone call or two to admissions can reveal a particular school is more flexible in how they review things. Obviously you would have more options doing it in the usual order.

All that said, it's been a fun ride so far and gets more fun every day. I thoroughly loved med school, though in retrospect I can't believe I was able to sit still and study so much during the first two years. Residency has been far more work but also far more fulfilling. It definitely eats a lot of your time though, and there is a certain unpredictability that makes it doubly difficult. Making dinner plans is a surefire way to guarantee a 4:55 emergency!

To be fair, it seems like you applied to med school several years ago. The game has changed since then, with requirements and ECs increasing significantly.

 

[operaman]

To be fair, it seems like you applied to med school several years ago. The game has changed since then, with requirements and ECs increasing significantly.

Perhaps. I remember seeing the same sort of numbers quoted back then though. I didn't think I'd get in my first go around, but was pleasantly surprised when it worked out!

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I realize there will be sacrifices, and this is just something I have been thinking about recently but haven't taken any steps toward anything yet. Are the shadowing and volunteering requirements or just something to make an applicant stand out from the crowd? If I were to take the post bacc classes and do well (assuming I will--again I never took science classes) and let's say, I do well on the MCAT, would that be sufficient, you think?

They're not stated requirements, but they are necessary.

Take a look at this to give you an idea of what an applicant needs for med school:
Admissions Recommendations - U of U School of Medicine - | University of Utah

You need to demonstrate that :

• Yyou know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side.
• You know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.
• You know what a doctor's day is like, and how different doctors approach the practice of medicine
• You can handle the academic rigors of medical school

 

[JayDee33]

Thank you everyone for all of your advice and opinions. I appreciate each one of your responses. It's good to know that it is possible to do the preparation more slowly while working. I would like to know that I am capable of doing well in science classes and doing well on the MCAT before I take drastic measures and walk away from my current career. And yes, as most of you said, volunteering and shadowing will be good not only because they are somewhat required but also to help me figure out if this is really what I would want to do. So I think I am going to just take a couple of classes in the evenings just to see how I'm doing and do some volunteering on the weekends. I know I am not getting any younger at 33 but it's probably better to take it slowly and make sure that this would be the right move for me.

I do have a question. Anyone who has done a graduate degree after undergrad and before medical school, did they average your undergrad GPA and grad GPA? My law school gpa was not good (3.2). Undergrad gpa was 3.99 (one b+, the rest all As and A+s). How do they factor in your postbacc gpa?

 

[JayDee33]

Thanks Tiger Tank. and sorry guys i keep asking questions. for a diy post-bacc program, how do you go about taking classes at a four year school? I mean, i had to apply and be accepted to do the undergrad degree. I assume i cannot just walk to a university campus and sign up for the post-bacc classes. Does anyone know how that goes?

 

[steve-o-matic]

It's very doable if you're willing to sacrifice. Part of my job involves reviewing provider CVs; I know of several who "started over" from other careers including an engineer, a lawyer, a respiratory tech, and even one who taught middle school for 16 years before she decided to pursue medicine. The financial aspect is difficult to address, especially if you're raising a family. From what I'm told, spousal and family support are key.

Regarding taking classes over after undergraduate, it is actually as easy as you first described. You don't necessarily need to pursue a degree to be accepted- just apply as a transient/non-degree seeking individual or a second-degree seeking student. Of course, your status may affect whatever financial aid/scholarships you apply for.

 

[futuremdforme]

I think that you could definitely get in eventually, but I don't think that it would be worth it given your family and financial obligations. If you are in charge of your mother's healthcare, how are you going to do this if you have to do med school elsewhere, or when you're a resident and have no time off? Is your spouse prepared to work?

I would think about how to use your law degree to better potential to feel more fulfilled. Even if you took a paycut, it would probably work out better than med school at this point.

 

[cellsaver]

I can choose to work from home whenever I do not have court or depositions which is a big plus as I have two children (2 and 3 years old).
..
I have also had to have a lot of contact with doctors in my personal life as my mother got diagnosed with cancer.
...
Mother does not speak English well and I have had to take charge of arranging her medical care (both financially and also choosing doctors...

But is this even a realistic possibility?

In time it will be possible if your passion is still there. However you are the sole provider for your sick mother, language barriers exist and you have two very young kids. In order to succeed in medical school, the student must have support. Who will be that support for you? Rhetorical question. Reflect on it and if/when you find that support, you will need it. You can not be mother, loving daughter and MD student all at the same time. You need support for this journey.

Vaya con Dios!

 

[Gilakend]

Have you considered medical careers besides MD/DO? I think that would be much easier/quicker considering your situation. Your post makes it sound like it would be near impossible for you to be a resident with the work hours and low salary.