Attrition Rates for Medical Fields

[workaholic007]

I tried looking online but does anyone have a source of attrition rates throughout residency for specialities. I am particular interested in attrition rates in surgical fields and what the % might be and the reasons for individuals leaving

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[DrStephenStrange]

I tried looking online but does anyone have a source of attrition rates throughout residency for specialities. I am particular interested in attrition rates in surgical fields and what the % might be and the reasons for individuals leaving

It's really hard for you to get kicked out of residency. You'd have to screw up really bad, but I guess there's also a tiny percentage of resident that might just quit due specific personal reasons. So I'd say attrition rate is super duper low in residency (probably less than 2%), and I don't think you will find data out there on it.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

General surgery is 20-25%

That’s the number that gets thrown around by PD's.

 

[nimbus]

General surgery is 20-25%

It's not published anywhere, but it's the number that gets thrown around by PD's.

Prevalence and Causes of Attrition Among Surgical Residents

This systematic review and meta-analysis summarizes the estimate of attrition prevalence among general surgery residents.

jamanetwork.com

In my anesthesia class we had 2/11 leave, one for psychiatry and one for urology.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Prevalence and Causes of Attrition Among Surgical Residents

This systematic review and meta-analysis summarizes the estimate of attrition prevalence among general surgery residents.

jamanetwork.com

I guess it IS published, lol.

You can think that about 1 in 5 incoming GS residents will leave.

I think that’s too much, and we as surgeons should really work on lowering that number.

 

[workaholic007]

General surgery is 20-25%

That’s the number that gets thrown around by PD's.

It's really hard for you to get kicked out of residency. You'd have to screw up really bad, but I guess there's also a tiny percentage of resident that might just quit due specific personal reasons. So I'd say attrition rate is super duper low in residency (probably less than 2%), and I don't think you will find data out there on it.

see this is where im confused - some people say its 2% and some people say general surgery is around 20-25%. I am curious on the statistics in regards to the fact I am assuming people who enter surgical residencies are already somewhat self-selected to be hard working as well, and I am curious on why they drop and change fields. I think its more common than 2% to be honest

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

see this is where im confused - some people say its 2% and some people say general surgery is around 20-25%. I am curious on the statistics in regards to the fact I am assuming people who enter surgical residencies are already somewhat self-selected to be hard working as well, and I am curious on why they drop and change fields. I think its more common than 2% to be honest

Oh yeah, way more common in GS than people think.

Part of the reason is I think medical school somewhat shields med students from what it actually means to be a GS resident.

The medical students where I work don’t even have to do notes.

If you’re a medical student interested in surgery, make sure you make that clear when you rotate on the service. You need to expose yourself to the hours and emulate the life of a GS resident as much as possible to determine if it’s the life for you.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

see this is where im confused - some people say its 2% and some people say general surgery is around 20-25%. I am curious on the statistics in regards to the fact I am assuming people who enter surgical residencies are already somewhat self-selected to be hard working as well, and I am curious on why they drop and change fields. I think its more common than 2% to be honest

You may be confusing people DISMISSED from residency with people who leave by their own accord for another field.

Getting dismissed/fired is exceedingly rare, unless you do something really terrible like endanger a patient.

But lost of people realize the field wasn’t right for them to begin with, or when truly faced with the crippling hours and duration of certain surgical fields decide to leave.

I have a good friend who quit gen surg residency for PMR. His wife basically said she was going to leave him because she couldn’t continue raising their 2 small children alone with him never there. He would’ve made a phenomenal surgeon, but at age 30 when you’ve got a family sometimes those things take precedence

 

[workaholic007]

You may be confusing people DISMISSED from residency with people who leave by their own accord for another field.

Getting dismissed/fired is exceedingly rare, unless you do something really terrible like endanger a patient.

But lost of people realize the field wasn’t right for them to begin with, or when truly faced with the crippling hours and duration of certain surgical fields decide to leave.

I have a good friend who quit gen surg residency for PMR. His wife basically said she was going to leave him because she couldn’t continue raising their 2 small children alone with him never there. He would’ve made a phenomenal surgeon, but at age 30 when you’ve got a family sometimes those things take precedence

in the post i am referring to attrition rate, corresponding to leaving by any means. I am assuming dismissal is very rare.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

ACGME data book

 

[CidHighwind]

Also one has to imagine that at least a decent percentage of the 20-25% were “fired” but not officially. IE they were given the option to resign or switch fields. I know of several IM residents that were former surgeons/anesthesiologists that this happened to.

 

[CidHighwind]

I saw two general surgery residents who did 3 years in a 5 year program and both had contracts not renewed for the 4th year. Both were claimed to have subpar surgical skills. I remember thinking that it should not take 3 years to figure that out.

Maybe they gave them time because they didn’t want to fire them? Makes sense, if someone can’t operate, then they shouldn’t be let out into the community. It’s just unfortunate that students don’t have a way of figuring things like this out before they get to the point of applying for residencies.

 

[yeet]

Oh yeah, way more common in GS than people think.

Part of the reason is I think medical school somewhat shields med students from what it actually means to be a GS resident.

The medical students where I work don’t even have to do notes.

If you’re a medical student interested in surgery, make sure you make that clear when you rotate on the service. You need to expose yourself to the hours and emulate the life of a GS resident as much as possible to determine if it’s the life for you.

Can you describe typical hours from intern year to pgy-5? I'm doing 5am - 5pm as a student and am wondering if this is what it will be like as a resident. Very interested in the field, but also sad that I don't have time to exercise on most days 🙁

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Can you describe typical hours from intern year to pgy-5? I'm doing 5am - 5pm as a student and am wondering if this is what it will be like as a resident. Very interested in the field, but also sad that I don't have time to exercise on most days 🙁

The hours are very program and rotation dependent. It's difficult to divide out the hours by year.

At a vast majority of programs you are only guaranteed to not exceed 80 hours per week, averaged over 4 weeks. That's all I can tell you. It's the ACGME requirement.

I've never exceeded that, and I'm going into my 3rd year. There are weeks where I have worked 120 hours, but averaged this out to not exceed the limit.

 

[arafatni]

ACGME data book

Wow you are awsome . May i know the source for the data?

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Wow you are awsome . May i know the source for the data?

ACGME Data Resource Book