AUC vs. Ross. vs. Saba

[DyersEve]

I'm trying to decide between these three schools, to which I have been accepted for Jan '08. Your input would be much appreciated in making my decision. Perhaps I have used a small sample size, but based on reading posts here and at ValueMD and reading the surveys at ValueMD, it seems that Ross has received the most negative publicity. The negative/positive comment ratios for AUC and Saba are roughly equal from what I have seen.

All 3 schools are accredited in all 50 states, although I do understand that grads of these schools won't necessarily be able to easily practice in all the states. One big advantage for Saba is the cost, which is considerably less than the other two. Of course, Saba is not eligible for federal loans, but the lower cost negates this disadvantage.

The standards of living at AUC seem to be the best. It is on a well-developed (relatively speaking) island that is a popular tourist destination. Saba is a tiny little island with little in the way of entertainment. Of course, it is a 45 minute ferry ride away from St. Martin. Besides, I'm going to med school to study rather than party. As I understand it, Dominca has some crime problems and the island is a little underdeveloped by U.S. standards.

I'm sure that I can deal with the living conditions at any of the three schools. My family is originally from a rural region of a third world country and I've spent a good amount of time there. I've dealt with power cuts that last for hours in the middle of hot, sticky days, I've dealt with mosquitoes and other nasty bugs and I've seen extreme poverty first hand (which I'm told is not clearly visible on any of the aforementioned schools' islands). So, I feel I'm well prepared for a change in conditions from what I currently enjoy Stateside.

An important question is, is there a significant difference in the ability of grads of these three schools to secure licenses in all 50 states? As these are all foreign med schools, does their reputation make much of a difference when it comes to residency matching and job placement?

I will say that at the moment, I am leaning towards Saba due to its lower cost. But I wouldn't mind shelling out a little extra money if it is worth it. I have some parental support, and I have no significant debt at the moment. But, if I can save myself $40,000 for no significant difference in the quality of my education or value of my degree, I wouldn't mind living on a pebble in the middle of the ocean for 5 semesters.

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[AllIn4Life]

I'm trying to decide between these three schools, to which I have been accepted for Jan '08. Your input would be much appreciated in making my decision. Perhaps I have used a small sample size, but based on reading posts here and at ValueMD and reading the surveys at ValueMD, it seems that Ross has received the most negative publicity. The negative/positive comment ratios for AUC and Saba are roughly equal from what I have seen.

All 3 schools are accredited in all 50 states, although I do understand that grads of these schools won't necessarily be able to easily practice in all the states. One big advantage for Saba is the cost, which is considerably less than the other two. Of course, Saba is not eligible for federal loans, but the lower cost negates this disadvantage.

The standards of living at AUC seem to be the best. It is on a well-developed (relatively speaking) island that is a popular tourist destination. Saba is a tiny little island with little in the way of entertainment. Of course, it is a 45 minute ferry ride away from St. Martin. Besides, I'm going to med school to study rather than party. As I understand it, Dominca has some crime problems and the island is a little underdeveloped by U.S. standards.

I'm sure that I can deal with the living conditions at any of the three schools. My family is originally from a rural region of a third world country and I've spent a good amount of time there. I've dealt with power cuts that last for hours in the middle of hot, sticky days, I've dealt with mosquitoes and other nasty bugs and I've seen extreme poverty first hand (which I'm told is not clearly visible on any of the aforementioned schools' islands). So, I feel I'm well prepared for a change in conditions from what I currently enjoy Stateside.

An important question is, is there a significant difference in the ability of grads of these three schools to secure licenses in all 50 states? As these are all foreign med schools, does their reputation make much of a difference when it comes to residency matching and job placement?

I will say that at the moment, I am leaning towards Saba due to its lower cost. But I wouldn't mind shelling out a little extra money if it is worth it. I have some parental support, and I have no significant debt at the moment. But, if I can save myself $40,000 for no significant difference in the quality of my education or value of my degree, I wouldn't mind living on a pebble in the middle of the ocean for 5 semesters.

What state are you looking to practice in?
If money was no object, which of the 3 would you pick?

 

[DyersEve]

I've lived in many different states, so I'm not all that particular about where exactly I'd want to live. I wouldn't be heartbroken if I couldn't practice in a certain state; I've moved around too much to become attached to any one place. I would like to practice somewhere in the East. Really, anywhere between North Carolina and Massachusetts would be fine.

As for money not being a factor, I suppose I would choose AUC. As I understand it, Ross has had some major issues with clinical rotations and they have very large class sizes. I haven't heard of many problems about Saba with regard to rotations and their academic record seems good as well, but the fact that it is on such a boring little island is a definite con.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Ross is the worst choice of the three, if you talk to Ross students they are mostly an arrogant and loudmouthed bunch, they will trash other offshore schools and boast about its 94 percent USMLE pass rate. What most people will not tell you is they lose nearly 40 percent of their total class by the time you get to the clinical stage. So only about 60 percent of the students actually finish basic sciences to take the Step 1. AUC has much lower attrition due to a number of factors, smaller class sizes and the courses are set up in a more manageable schedule. First semester at AUC you take 3 courses while at Ross you have to take 5. Also the basic sciences at Ross are crammed into 16 months while at AUC its 20 months but you have the option to decel at AUC, so fewer people get kicked out.

 

[bulletproof]

Ross is the worst choice of the three, if you talk to Ross students they are mostly an arrogant and loudmouthed bunch, they will trash other offshore schools and boast about its 94 percent USMLE pass rate. What most people will not tell you is they lose nearly 40 percent of their total class by the time you get to the clinical stage. So only about 60 percent of the students actually finish basic sciences to take the Step 1. AUC has much lower attrition due to a number of factors, smaller class sizes and the courses are set up in a more manageable schedule. First semester at AUC you take 3 courses while at Ross you have to take 5. Also the basic sciences at Ross are crammed into 16 months while at AUC its 20 months but you have the option to decel at AUC, so fewer people get kicked out.

1. Do you personally know most Ross students?
2. Are you aware that making gross generalisations makes you look ignorant?
3. Can you provide a link attesting to the attrition rates quoted above?
4. Can you show where I or any other Ross student/ graduate posting on these forums have quoted a 94 percent USMLE pass rate?

 

[bulletproof]

I'm trying to decide between these three schools, to which I have been accepted for Jan '08. Your input would be much appreciated in making my decision. Perhaps I have used a small sample size, but based on reading posts here and at ValueMD and reading the surveys at ValueMD, it seems that Ross has received the most negative publicity. The negative/positive comment ratios for AUC and Saba are roughly equal from what I have seen.

All 3 schools are accredited in all 50 states, although I do understand that grads of these schools won't necessarily be able to easily practice in all the states. One big advantage for Saba is the cost, which is considerably less than the other two. Of course, Saba is not eligible for federal loans, but the lower cost negates this disadvantage.

The standards of living at AUC seem to be the best. It is on a well-developed (relatively speaking) island that is a popular tourist destination. Saba is a tiny little island with little in the way of entertainment. Of course, it is a 45 minute ferry ride away from St. Martin. Besides, I'm going to med school to study rather than party. As I understand it, Dominca has some crime problems and the island is a little underdeveloped by U.S. standards.

I'm sure that I can deal with the living conditions at any of the three schools. My family is originally from a rural region of a third world country and I've spent a good amount of time there. I've dealt with power cuts that last for hours in the middle of hot, sticky days, I've dealt with mosquitoes and other nasty bugs and I've seen extreme poverty first hand (which I'm told is not clearly visible on any of the aforementioned schools' islands). So, I feel I'm well prepared for a change in conditions from what I currently enjoy Stateside.

An important question is, is there a significant difference in the ability of grads of these three schools to secure licenses in all 50 states? As these are all foreign med schools, does their reputation make much of a difference when it comes to residency matching and job placement?

I will say that at the moment, I am leaning towards Saba due to its lower cost. But I wouldn't mind shelling out a little extra money if it is worth it. I have some parental support, and I have no significant debt at the moment. But, if I can save myself $40,000 for no significant difference in the quality of my education or value of my degree, I wouldn't mind living on a pebble in the middle of the ocean for 5 semesters.

I would advise you to take a look at the residency placement lists/ alumni lists of the three schools. Looking at where graduates have matched and in what fields should be a foremost consideration in your evaluating these three schools.

$40,000 is a nice chunk of change, but, in the grand scheme of things it is chump change compared with getting the best education at a school that is the best fit for you.

I will not advocate Ross over AUC or SABA as I have not attended all three. With respect to concerns voiced over clinicals however, Ross has just added two new clinical sites to help alleviate congestion for 3rd year cores. The following is from an email I received yesterday:


"I wanted to let you know that we have recently signed two new clinical affiliation agreements to provide third year core rotations.
First, there is a new Family Medicine rotation in Florida at the Miami Beach Community Health Center site which will take 15 students per six week rotation. In addition to this site, the students may accompany their attending at hospital sites including North Shore , Jackson Memorial, Mount Sinai and Jackson North. Students will begin this rotation in August 2007.

Second, there is a new affiliation agreement in Georgia with Atlanta Medical Center (AMC), Crawford Long Hospital ( Emory University ) and Dekalb Medical Center ( Morehouse University ). This new agreement will begin in August and September 2007 with six students at AMC in surgery and family medicine and five students on Ob-Gyn and internal medicine each rotation. At DeKalb Medical Center there will be a pediatrics (ACGME) clerkship for six students every 6 weeks and at Crawford Long Hospital there is a new psychiatry (ACGME) clerkship for six student every 6 weeks. I hope we will be able to "grow" this site over the next several semesters."

With respect to attrition rates, higher attrition rates attributed to Ross are associated with folks not being able to adjust to living on a 3rd world island. Many 1st semesters leave the island prior to the first "mini-exam", after about 6 weeks. This is not a reflection of the school itself or the education received. Seeing as how you have had experience living in the 3rd world/ dealing with rolling power outages, this shold be a minimal concern for you. Incidentally, even during power outages, the Ross campus has generators so there is always power available to study etc.

I think all three of the options are good options although personally I would be deciding between AUC or Ross, based on the islands themselves, and their history with placing graduates. In the end, however, it will be down to what you feel is the best fit for you. Good luck.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I had a friend who went to Ross he told me the school was highly cutthroat, and yes the living conditions on the island are rough to say the least. AUC has a more livable environment but even then many students are too spoiled to live in a foreign country for an extended period of time. One friend of mine went to AUC in the late 90's and said out of a class of 165 students, 65 went home after the first hurricane hit, they just could not deal with hurricanes. It kind of showed poor motivation on the part of the students for a 2 day hurricane. In general AUC has had about 12 percent attrition. The school is definitely more organized than Ross and doesn't admit large numbers of students, the August class rarely has more than 160 students total.

Of Ross grads who survive, they do pretty well in the real world, its just a tougher environment and people should be aware of that.

St. Maarten is a very comfortable island, a lot of rich people retire there, that being said for some people it might be distracting, although AUC is in a very quiet part of the island.

 

[bulletproof]

I had a friend who went to Ross he told me the school was highly cutthroat, and yes the living conditions on the island are rough to say the least. AUC has a more livable environment but even then many students are too spoiled to live in a foreign country for an extended period of time. One friend of mine went to AUC in the late 90's and said out of a class of 165 students, 65 went home after the first hurricane hit, they just could not deal with hurricanes. It kind of showed poor motivation on the part of the students for a 2 day hurricane. In general AUC has had about 12 percent attrition. The school is definitely more organized than Ross and doesn't admit large numbers of students, the August class rarely has more than 160 students total.

Of Ross grads who survive, they do pretty well in the real world, its just a tougher environment and people should be aware of that.

St. Maarten is a very comfortable island, a lot of rich people retire there, that being said for some people it might be distracting, although AUC is in a very quiet part of the island.

Relative to your prior post, this one is much more balanced, and provides insight into the problem of attrition at caribbean schools. There should be no doubt in anyones mind as to the difference in comfort between St. Maarten and Dominica, or Saba for that matter. This should be one consideration amongst many when looking at carib. med as has been noted on this and many, many other threads.

I agree that Ross is a "tough environment"......absolutely, and I am fine with that. I don't think that paying your tuition bill should entitle you to become a doctor. Some who get admitted to offshore schools are in love with the idea of *being* a doctor, but aren't commited to the process of *becoming* a doctor. As I posted in another thread, we had some students in our entering class who were there to make their parents happy etc. who ended up leaving when they could not maintain the pretense of being engaged in a medical education. The workload is staggering, and the learning curve steep. And yet, the vast majority of my entering semester student body has made it on to clinicals with some matching in this years match after 3 years and 6 months of medical school to places like University of Toledo, Ohio for anesthesia, and University of Connetticut for IM etc. More of us are beefing up our residency apps. by doing research, or just travelling prior to residency.

There is no one school that is right for everyone. Irrespective of where you go however your success will be largely dependent on you. This cannot be overemphasised.