“AuDHD” therapist providing neurodiversity-affirmative Adult Autism Assessments.

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Next up on Tik-Tok....pre-conception trauma.

If your great-great-great-great-grandma experienced trauma...you did too! And life was pretty ****ty back then, so chances are good she did. For only $2,000 out-of-pocket, I will provide you a document stating this. No evaluation necessary, because evaluations are also traumatizing. My malpractice carrier was quite insistent I disclose this document is most-definitely-not-a-psychological-report and I am providing it in my side gig as a trauma-informed neuro-historical charlatan, not as a psychologist. However, you can give your boss this document and demand they continue paying you while you process the trauma we aren't completely sure happened but it probably did (success not guaranteed).

It also comes with a complimentary emotional support pterodactyl.
This has sort of already begun--I have anecdotally seen some folks argue that the epigenetic effects of trauma are passed down to offspring...which makes no sense to me, because my understanding is that gene expression is not inherited, so those effects would be "washed clean," so to speak, in the next generation. I cannot now remember the person or context, but I saw someone cite a study on how children of mothers who underwent a major famine (maybe the Holodomor?) were more likely to be obese than children of mothers who did not undergo famine. This person's argument was essentially that they inherited the "trauma" of starvation genetically and thus their genes expression was such that they craved more fattening foods and/or their body metabolized calories more slowly to prevent starvation. And in my mind I'm just like: "Or, you know, much more plausible is the notion that mothers who underwent famine simply fed their kids more food to prevent their kids from starving to death." Idk, seems really far-fetched to me to argue that trauma effects are genetically inherited. Epigenetic effects are absolutely a thing, but I have always understood them as happening on the individual level and being mostly wiped clean from generation to generation. And I don't deny that people who learn maladaptive behaviors will then likely perpetuate those behaviors by teaching them to offspring--but, again, "intergenerational trauma" seems like such a suspect term to me. Perhaps others here can correct me if my understandings are not accurate.

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I cannot now remember the person or context, but I saw someone cite a study on how children of mothers who underwent a major famine (maybe the Holodomor?) were more likely to be obese than children of mothers who did not undergo famine. This person's argument was essentially that they inherited the "trauma" of starvation genetically and thus their genes expression was such that they craved more fattening foods and/or their body metabolized calories more slowly to prevent starvation.

The study in question was likely done on survivors of the Hongerwinter in the Netherlands (1944-1945), which happened unexpectedly and suddenly as a result of a Nazi food embargo meant to punish a railway strike. By the end of the famine in spring 1945 adults in the western Netherlands were down to 580 calories per day. The winter was also particularly severe, fuel ran short, so everyone was also extremely cold as well. People ate tulip bulbs and nettles and walked dozens of miles into the countryside to try to find farmers who they could barter away anything they could carry for food. Tens of thousands of people died. Audrey Hepburn actually was a child in the Netherlands at the time and had lifelong medical problems that were blamed on this experience. Interestingly it also finally gave physicians some clue as to the cause of celiac dz, since suddenly a bunch of kids with celiac dz lost all access to bread and their health actually improved, but then got worse again when food supplies resumed.

It has been a favorite for research purposes because it happened in a country with good records, it happened recently and is well-documented, and it was very abrupt in its offset and onset, so it is easy to compare mothers who were pregnant during the famine with very comparable samples from the year before and year after.


And in my mind I'm just like: "Or, you know, much more plausible is the notion that mothers who underwent famine simply fed their kids more food to prevent their kids from starving to death."

The question of course is "why did mothers pregnant in 1944-1945 do this more than mothers who were pregnant in 1943 or 1946 who also went through the Hongerwinter?"
 
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To be fair, if everything is trauma, then isn't everything caused by trauma? :unsure:
 
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The study in question was likely done on survivors of the Hongerwinter in the Netherlands (1944-1945), which happened unexpectedly and suddenly as a result of a Nazi food embargo meant to punish a railway strike. By the end of the famine in spring 1945 adults in the western Netherlands were down to 580 calories per day. The winter was also particularly severe, fuel ran short, so everyone was also extremely cold as well. People ate tulip bulbs and nettles and walked dozens of miles into the countryside to try to find farmers who they could barter away anything they could carry for food. Tens of thousands of people died. Audrey Hepburn actually was a child in the Netherlands at the time and had lifelong medical problems that were blamed on this experience. Interestingly it also finally gave physicians some clue as to the cause of celiac dz, since suddenly a bunch of kids with celiac dz lost all access to bread and their health actually improved, but then got worse again when food supplies resumed.

It has been a favorite for research purposes because it happened in a country with good records, it happened recently and is well-documented, and it was very abrupt in its offset and onset, so it is easy to compare mothers who were pregnant during the famine with very comparable samples from the year before and year after.




The question of course is "why did mothers pregnant in 1944-1945 do this more than mothers who were pregnant in 1943 or 1946 who also went through the Hongerwinter?"
I see. Thanks for the clarification on the study. I don’t think the person mentioned in my post included all of these details. It’s certainly something to mull over.
 
This has sort of already begun--I have anecdotally seen some folks argue that the epigenetic effects of trauma are passed down to offspring...which makes no sense to me, because my understanding is that gene expression is not inherited, so those effects would be "washed clean," so to speak, in the next generation. I cannot now remember the person or context, but I saw someone cite a study on how children of mothers who underwent a major famine (maybe the Holodomor?) were more likely to be obese than children of mothers who did not undergo famine. This person's argument was essentially that they inherited the "trauma" of starvation genetically and thus their genes expression was such that they craved more fattening foods and/or their body metabolized calories more slowly to prevent starvation. And in my mind I'm just like: "Or, you know, much more plausible is the notion that mothers who underwent famine simply fed their kids more food to prevent their kids from starving to death." Idk, seems really far-fetched to me to argue that trauma effects are genetically inherited. Epigenetic effects are absolutely a thing, but I have always understood them as happening on the individual level and being mostly wiped clean from generation to generation. And I don't deny that people who learn maladaptive behaviors will then likely perpetuate those behaviors by teaching them to offspring--but, again, "intergenerational trauma" seems like such a suspect term to me. Perhaps others here can correct me if my understandings are not accurate.
I actually don't find it implausible at all that large-scale events like that could have consequences that span generations. Whether epigenetic mechanisms are the responsible pathway I think is up for debate, but not impossible they are involved.

I do find it ludicrous that such an event would directly explain a current PTSD diagnosis that can only be ameliorated through therapy (and carrying a pterodactyl with you when you go to Target). Could it tip the scales towards increasing the likelihood of developing PTSD by sensitizing certain neural pathways (via genetics, epigenetics), common behavioral/environmental factors or something else entirely? Sure.
 
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I bet they didn’t have free-range cruelty free organic kumquats either!

You just traumatized me further when you did not provide a trigger warning for the word "cruelty." Now I have to go curl up in the fetal position around my emotional support cactus.
 
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I actually don't find it implausible at all that large-scale events like that could have consequences that span generations. Whether epigenetic mechanisms are the responsible pathway I think is up for debate, but not impossible they are involved.

I do find it ludicrous that such an event would directly explain a current PTSD diagnosis that can only be ameliorated through therapy (and carrying a pterodactyl with you when you go to Target). Could it tip the scales towards increasing the likelihood of developing PTSD by sensitizing certain neural pathways (via genetics, epigenetics), common behavioral/environmental factors or something else entirely? Sure.
I could agree with this. I think I overstated my argument earlier. I don't think PTSD and trauma reactions are heritable, but I do think it is plausible that diathesis is inherited. (Well, more than plausible--we know diathesis is inherited--but point being I do think epigenetic influences on diatheses being heritable is a reasonable idea, and likely to be true.)
 
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