Australia vs. North America

[mpang]

Hi, I have been told by some veterinary assistants that it's easier to get into Australia vet schools than North American ones, what you do think of it? I am considering whether I should try Australia schools instead, it seems like they have this 5-years program that I can apply to. Can one still practice veterinary in north america if they obtain their credential in Australia? Thanks in advance

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[littlehooves]

Its probably a good idea for you to do some research by visiting the university websites.

There are 3 AVMA accredited Vet schools in Australia, and they aren't necessarily easier to get in.

Granted Murdoch apparently puts more of an emphasis on your entire application (marks, personal statement, experience, references..etc), this doesn't mean its an easier route to vet med. U Melbourne and especially U Sydney emphasize on marks, and I believe the cut off is around a B or B+, but don't forget about the 1499 other applicants that are also competing for a seat.

So is it easier? Well, not necessarily.

I'm from Ontario, Canada and the way it works in Canada is a bit different then the USA. Basically we have 5 vet schools in all of Canada, and you can ONLY apply to the one in the province/area where you are a resident. You are not allowed to apply as an international student to any of them (not sure about the new one out west- someone correct me if I'm wrong). So for me, it was more logical to apply to more then just my provincial vet school- why would I put all my eggs in one basket? For you, not sure where you are from, but you'll want to do some more research by visiting their websites...and especially if you are looking into going Australia, have a gander at the tuition fees.

 

[mrboh]

It's a bit of a different kettle of fish in Australia because most of the vet programs can be applied to directly from school instead of being professional postgraduate degrees. Some of the unis (Melbourne and Adelaide) are moving to the US-style postgraduate DVM model but I don't think those degrees start until 2011. So .. the bad news is that you're competing with lots and lots of bright-eyed, bushy-tailed school leavers .. but the good news is that, subjectively at least, it seems that graduate applications into Australian veterinary programs tend to be viewed positively.

If you like the sound of doing a vet degree in Australia you might also want to consider New Zealand. Although we're better at them than every single sport in existence, they still serve up a decent vet degree at Massey .. if you have the prerequisites then you're looking at 4.5 years for the professional phase of the degree. They're AVMA-accredited, too.

 

[mpang]

Thanks for the advice! I had also considered New Zealand too, though I really don't know much about it. I will definitely look into Massey, do they offer US-style program or more like Australia? Thanks again.

 

[lazyjayn]

derail

Although we're better at them than every single sport in existence

I sincerely disagree- Aus has won tri-nations twice since 1996, and the Bledisloe cup 12 times since the 1930's. And cricket isn't a sport.

/derail

-j.

 

[mrboh]

I sincerely disagree- Aus has won tri-nations twice since 1996, and the Bledisloe cup 12 times since the 1930's. And cricket isn't a sport.-j.

Ahh see that's just how they *report* it in the NZ media to keep the people happy, we know the real truth over here.

Thanks for the advice! I had also considered New Zealand too, though I really don't know much about it. I will definitely look into Massey, do they offer US-style program or more like Australia? Thanks again.

It's more like Australia in the sense that the BVSc is a 5-year undergraduate course, but as I say, you can skip the first semester and apply straight into the professional 4.5-year course if you've already done the prerequisites. There are a few Massey students around here like laurafinn who can probably give you a lot more information than I can. There are also a few threads about Massey if you search around.

 

[alliecat44]

Hi, I have been told by some veterinary assistants that it's easier to get into Australia vet schools than North American ones, what you do think of it? I am considering whether I should try Australia schools instead, it seems like they have this 5-years program that I can apply to. Can one still practice veterinary in north america if they obtain their credential in Australia? Thanks in advance

Regarding competitiveness...I have a friend at Murdoch who was one of 6 (? I think) north American students in her class. Almost every single one of her North American classmates has a bachelor's and at least a master's--several already have a PhD. I applied that year and was rejected, both from Murdoch and Melbourne. This year I have another NA friend accepted to Murdoch--she has a master's and a PhD.

I know it's only anecdotal, but I would never ever think of an Australian school as a sure thing (not saying you were thinking that). 🙂

 

[darren1228]

Regarding competitiveness...I have a friend at Murdoch who was one of 6 (? I think) north American students in her class. Almost every single one of her North American classmates has a bachelor's and at least a master's--several already have a PhD. I applied that year and was rejected, both from Murdoch and Melbourne. This year I have another NA friend accepted to Murdoch--she has a master's and a PhD.

I know it's only anecdotal, but I would never ever think of an Australian school as a sure thing (not saying you were thinking that). 🙂

Yikes......I only have a BS 😱

 

[hopefulvet21]

A BS is still okay. I got into Melbourne and Sydney this year with just a Bachelor's. The thing is that they are very grade-oriented when looking at applicants. If you have a ton of experience, but not so impressive grades, you may want to try and raise your GPA somehow.

 

[darren1228]

A BS is still okay. I got into Melbourne and Sydney this year with just a Bachelor's. The thing is that they are very grade-oriented when looking at applicants. If you have a ton of experience, but not so impressive grades, you may want to try and raise your GPA somehow.

Appreciate your answer 🙂 I have a pretty strong GPA and very average animal experience. Hope I get in.

p.s. Congrats on your Edinburgh acceptance!!

 

[Nexx]

Like any school it depends on the year I suppose. Last year and the year before that, my roommate and I were one of a few applicants accepted who I am aware of in the 2011/2012 classes that do not hold a bachelors degree. Those of us without a full degree were well on our way to obtaining it and had quite a bit of experience (on average at least 8 years of vet-related work each) to fall back on however (as well as good grades in the 'pre-reqs')

But yeah, Australian schools aren't any easier to get into--just different and perhaps a bit more beneficial to non-trad students in that way (hence the 'easier' viewpoint). I know it would have taken me at least 4 more years to get into a us school (1.5-2 more years of pre-reqs and probably at least 2 rounds of apps).

 

[darren1228]

It is easier to get into Australian schools in a sense that you only have to concentrate on your GPA and GRE. With North American schools you have to worry about your GPA, GRE, letters of reference, personal statement, and animal experience. So yes in a sense I would say Australian schools are easier to prepare for.

 

[Nexx]

With North American schools you have to worry about your GPA, GRE, letters of reference, personal statement, and animal experience. So yes in a sense I would say Australian schools are easier to prepare for.

You still have to worry about your reference letters, personal statement, and animal experience for Australian schools, frankly it was probably each of those that helped push my application up considering poor academic performance my first 2-ish years of uni (although subsequently doing much better helped) -- however at many US schools I might have had a much harder time since they wouldn't really view my application as a whole. You just can't compare them as if they are equals in that regard.

I actually never heard back from uMelb, but whether that was because Murdoch was my 1st choice and they responded first through AustraLearn and then australearn just never reported to me after I accepted my first offer I can't say and probably will never know. I just figure that I didn't get in 🙂

Also regardless of it being potentially easier to get in (which I don't necessarily agree) there is the whole starting a new life on the other side of the world (packing up, selling stuff, buying new stuff, strange land, etc) that a whole lot of people just aren't ready for and shouldn't consider doing just because they might let you in a bit easier. It is a much bigger decision than moving from Florida to South Carolina, or New York to California and isn't for everyone.

(errm I think that came out a bit more rant-like than intended.. sorry!)

 

[alliecat44]

I just spoke with my friend at Murdoch via Skype last night...she said that there were 8 international students in her classl and they had 511 international applications. 😱

So, good job Nexx!!!! 😀 👍

 

[Nexx]

out of curiosity.. what year is your friend in? and from what state? Just wondering b/c I may have run into him/her 😛

 

[Nexx]

**deleted**

 

[alliecat44]

out of curiosity.. what year is your friend in? and from what state? Just wondering b/c I may have run into him/her 😛

She had some family trouble, so she had to take a semester or two off...now she's class of 2011, I think? 🙂 from northern VA/DC metro area...do you know her? 🙂

 

[darren1228]

You still have to worry about your reference letters, personal statement, and animal experience for Australian schools, frankly it was probably each of those that helped push my application up considering poor academic performance my first 2-ish years of uni (although subsequently doing much better helped) -- however at many US schools I might have had a much harder time since they wouldn't really view my application as a whole. You just can't compare them as if they are equals in that regard.

I actually never heard back from uMelb, but whether that was because Murdoch was my 1st choice and they responded first through AustraLearn and then australearn just never reported to me after I accepted my first offer I can't say and probably will never know. I just figure that I didn't get in 🙂

Also regardless of it being potentially easier to get in (which I don't necessarily agree) there is the whole starting a new life on the other side of the world (packing up, selling stuff, buying new stuff, strange land, etc) that a whole lot of people just aren't ready for and shouldn't consider doing just because they might let you in a bit easier. It is a much bigger decision than moving from Florida to South Carolina, or New York to California and isn't for everyone.

(errm I think that came out a bit more rant-like than intended.. sorry!)

When I applied to the U of Melbourne they didn't ask for letters of reference or a personal statement (as an international student). I sent them in anyways but I don't know how big a difference it makes. The application really made it seem it was more about your GPA and GRE.

 

[darren1228]

I just spoke with my friend at Murdoch via Skype last night...she said that there were 8 international students in her classl and they had 511 international applications. 😱

So, good job Nexx!!!! 😀 👍

Is that accurate? 8/511 😱
That is like a 1.6% acceptance rate.....
Hope it isn't that low at U of Melbourne.
Arghhh I'm that much more nervous now

 

[hopefulvet21]

I'm sure more than 8 were actually accepted, but maybe 8 people of those accepted were the only ones that decided to attend...

 

[isg]

For Example:
511 People apply
30 Offers for admission (conditional/unconditional) are given by the university.
8 People enroll and accept those offers.

 

[mochavet]

Hi there. I am also a NA vet student at Murdoch. In our class we have 9 NA students and several students from other countries, so, in other words there are probably more like 30 international students in our class of 87 students. I can't think of any of us Internationals that has a PhD, and very few that have a Master's. Most just have a BS and lots of veterinary experience. Anyway,hope that helps.

 

[darren1228]

Hi there. I am also a NA vet student at Murdoch. In our class we have 9 NA students and several students from other countries, so, in other words there are probably more like 30 international students in our class of 87 students. I can't think of any of us Internationals that has a PhD, and very few that have a Master's. Most just have a BS and lots of veterinary experience. Anyway,hope that helps.

30 international students sounds more like what I expected 🙂
Thanks for the info.

 

[laurafinn]

Just to drop in briefly, Massey vet school is more along the British model than most of the Australian schools these days 🙂 5 years for (high school) leavers, or international students can apply to skip the first semester. I believe entry is all based on grades, but check the Massey web site for the latest international student entry criteria.

As I'm getting into more of the clinical portion of the course, I'm liking it more and more. You actually go out and see different practices, so you have a chance to observe (and eventually practice) vet med in a real world general practice environment, not just see lots of odd referral stuff at school. So, for instance, this week, I saw cat bite abscesses, cesareans, pediatric spays and neuters, demodex, flea allergy dermatitis, pig rips (a common NZ thing - don't ask), FLUTD, an enucleation, etc - the meat and potatoes of practice.

The only thing is, New Zealand is miserably cold and rainy compared to Australia. ;-)

 

[darren1228]

Just to drop in briefly, Massey vet school is more along the British model than most of the Australian schools these days 🙂 5 years for (high school) leavers, or international students can apply to skip the first semester. I believe entry is all based on grades, but check the Massey web site for the latest international student entry criteria.

As I'm getting into more of the clinical portion of the course, I'm liking it more and more. You actually go out and see different practices, so you have a chance to observe (and eventually practice) vet med in a real world general practice environment, not just see lots of odd referral stuff at school. So, for instance, this week, I saw cat bite abscesses, cesareans, pediatric spays and neuters, demodex, flea allergy dermatitis, pig rips (a common NZ thing - don't ask), FLUTD, an enucleation, etc - the meat and potatoes of practice.

The only thing is, New Zealand is miserably cold and rainy compared to Australia. ;-)

Sounds wonderful Laura (except for the weather)! Thanks for the info 🙂
Hoping to hear from Massey soon.

 

[Nexx]

A couple quick things that I actually heard about at Murdoch this evening...

The overall rough profile of class demographics (over all the years) is 1/3 from Western Australia, 1/3 from Australia, and 1/3 International students. 80% Female students.

Murdoch is working to become the first "internationally accredited" school. That is, all the accreditation organisations (AVBC, RCVS, and AVMA) are working to form a single "global" standard for vet schools and this is happening this September.

Murdoch is currently working to build a new Surgical suite (and update their old ones). I think they are meant to break ground in the next month or so on the new building. They've recently renovated (very nicely I might add) their imaging centre, are about to open up a canine rehab unit, just re-did all the hospital paddocks, and will eventually be working to (I think) expand the farm and build new sheep and pig enclosures (and probably some other farm stuff)

Good things come when they need to work towards meeting new standards! Sadly I won't get to use all the new stuff 🙂

Just wanted to toss this out there for any folks who may be interested in reading 🙂

 

[littlehooves]

It is easier to get into Australian schools in a sense that you only have to concentrate on your GPA and GRE. With North American schools you have to worry about your GPA, GRE, letters of reference, personal statement, and animal experience. So yes in a sense I would say Australian schools are easier to prepare for.

I would have to disagree on this one- I actually called up the universities asking them specifically if acceptances for international students are based on grades, and pretty much I wasn't going to apply if that was the case. I was told by Murdoch and Melbourne that they do consider the whole application. I have also researched it quite a bit on VSNA (Veterinary Student Network Abroad) and I've spoken to alot of North Americans who are there now. They all have said that, especially Murdoch, the applicants are assessed on all levels. Obviously marks plays a part and you have to have good marks, but they don't simply base it on that.

Also, I sent in all that stuff (Transcripts, letters of ref, CV, personal statement) for all my Aussie apps. Its required.

 

[TrillyTina]

Hello ^^ wow the thread has been inactive... I'm just wondering from any current students, how did you complete your confirmation of enrolment and the initial down deposit? I reckon somewhere stated that the Financial aid loans will not make it in time to cover the initial. So did you apply for a private loan as well? (Since the deposit they required was half the first year's tuition...) Thank you for your input! 😛

 

[Nexx]

Firstly.. that is some tiny font 🙂

Second congrats on the acceptance 😛

Thirdly... Financial Aid will definitely not arrive in time, they set it to disburse usually the first week of classes but, you may not have to put down the initial full deposit. I've heard from several people that they were able defer that full deposit until they actually attended. I don't know if they are doing that any more but it may be worth trying to give them a ring and find out. You still may have to put down $1000-2000AUD but that would be worth it and probably much easier than finding the necessary $17k AUD or whatever it is now.

For me I was fortunate enough to have a credit card with a ridiculously high limit and an introductory offer with a low APR so I used that. Getting a private loan for me would have been difficult with no real collateral and I didn't want to have to have someone cosign. I never bothered to call and ask about deferral.

As for the CoE Murdoch has to send that to you and if I recall correctly it is issued -after- you make your deposit (or partial deposit). Looking back at my emails I received my CoE in February after being notified of acceptance at the end of November for entrance into the program in July. (FYI you can't apply for student your visa until about 3 months before the program starts. If you choose to see a Panel Dr. you may want to schedule an appointment in the next month or so for a date after when you can first apply for your visa)

 

[Nexx]

Trilly, check your messages.

For anyone else stumbling along and finding this question... the current 'semi official' word on the street is that yes you can get a 'deferment' until such time as you are over here and starting classes. It is done on a case-by-case basis and involves talking to the Financial Aid officer. You must also a) accept your offer b) pay the initial deposit ($1000AUD or whatever) to hold your place c) Submit your FAFSA to the school in order to obtain a Cost of Attendance/offer letter and then apply for your loans and have the school certify them.

If they defer your payments they still want to be sure that you are coming and they are getting their money (this has visa implications which is more the reason rather than the school being petty about $$$).

This may change in the future and may not be applicable to everyone (especially those without previous degrees and less than 3 years of coursework--another set of headaches) so be sure to contact the international office if you have any concerns