Australian Dentist - Working in USA

[Mandok]

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Hi Guys,

I am currently an Australian Dental student, with a keen interest in practicing in USA in the future. I am well aware, that I may need to go through NBDE Part 1 and Part 2, along with the 2 years of International Dental Programme. I was wondering, if there was any other quicker/cheaper ways to getting the licence (other than the Residency and AEGD programs - that only allow me to work in Virginia). I would prefer to work in California, if it helps.



Thank you

 

[Mandok]

Anyone help me with my question?

 

[Cold Front]

Hi Guys,

I am currently an Australian Dental student, with a keen interest in practicing in USA in the future. I am well aware, that I may need to go through NBDE Part 1 and Part 2, along with the 2 years of International Dental Programme. I was wondering, if there was any other quicker/cheaper ways to getting the licence (other than the Residency and AEGD programs - that only allow me to work in Virginia). I would prefer to work in California, if it helps.

I had the following things in my mind:

1) Since, Australia and Canada have a reciprocal agreement, can I clear my NDEB, work in Canada and maybe apply to other US states via licence by credentials? ( I can complete part 1 & 2, if needed).

2) Would any state, grant me a licence (minnesotta?) based on the CDAC - ADC agreement, since CDAC = CODA, ADC = CDAC and hence ADC = CODA ? - maybe appeal to the state boards.

3) I will be completing my three year bachelor degree this year, would it be better to apply to Canadian Universities as an International student and pay their 4 years full fees (would it be cheaper than the 2 years IDP? and the lesser competition?)

4) Could licence by credentials work, if i get a licence in a state without DDS/DMD (Virginia) and apply to other states such as California?

5) Lastly, I dont have a green card/PR, so how hard is it for an international dentist to get sponsorship/H1B? I am more than happy to work anywhere in the country (even in HSPA areas).

Thank you

1. Best to directly contact the NDEB people in Canada. I'm sure they have more upto date information than here.

2. See above answer.

3. Depends on the IDP school. The tuition information are on their websites and you can compare them online.

4. Probably. California has the least strict licensing rule, at least they did few years ago.

5. It can take 2-3 years to get employment based greencard through dental employer.

Now let me ask you questions, since my wife is from Aussie. She now and then asks me to consider Australia as a future place to retire.

1. How easy is it for US dentists to come and practice in Australia?

2. How's the income compared to US?

3. I hear everything is expensive there... Plus taxes are high. I'm assuming that's the reason you want to come down here in the U.S.?

Good luck with everything!

 

[deleted158872]

Hi Guys,

I am currently an Australian Dental student, with a keen interest in practicing in USA in the future. I am well aware, that I may need to go through NBDE Part 1 and Part 2, along with the 2 years of International Dental Programme. I was wondering, if there was any other quicker/cheaper ways to getting the licence (other than the Residency and AEGD programs - that only allow me to work in Virginia). I would prefer to work in California, if it helps.

I had the following things in my mind:

1) Since, Australia and Canada have a reciprocal agreement, can I clear my NDEB, work in Canada and maybe apply to other US states via licence by credentials? ( I can complete part 1 & 2, if needed).

2) Would any state, grant me a licence (minnesotta?) based on the CDAC - ADC agreement, since CDAC = CODA, ADC = CDAC and hence ADC = CODA ? - maybe appeal to the state boards.

3) I will be completing my three year bachelor degree this year, would it be better to apply to Canadian Universities as an International student and pay their 4 years full fees (would it be cheaper than the 2 years IDP? and the lesser competition?)

4) Could licence by credentials work, if i get a licence in a state without DDS/DMD (Virginia) and apply to other states such as California?

5) Lastly, I dont have a green card/PR, so how hard is it for an international dentist to get sponsorship/H1B? I am more than happy to work anywhere in the country (even in HSPA areas).

Thank you

are you an Australian citizen? i'm curious why you want to work in the USA while Australian healthcare system is great and doctors/dentists are very well compensated?

 

[Cold Front]

are you an Australian citizen? i'm curious why you want to work in the USA while Australian healthcare system is great and doctors/dentists are very well compensated?

Are they more compensated? How so?

 

[Mandok]

are you an Australian citizen? i'm curious why you want to work in the USA while Australian healthcare system is great and doctors/dentists are very well compensated?

Yes, I am Australian citizen. I want to work in the USA, because I believe it will offer me more opportunities. I also believe that US dentists are a lot more compensated than Australians. Overall, I think the standard of living in US is higher.

 

[Mandok]

1. Best to directly contact the NDEB people in Canada. I'm sure they have more upto date information than here.

2. See above answer.

3. Depends on the IDP school. The tuition information are on their websites and you can compare them online.

4. Probably. California has the least strict licensing rule, at least they did few years ago.

5. It can take 2-3 years to get employment based greencard through dental employer.

Now let me ask you questions, since my wife is from Aussie. She now and then asks me to consider Australia as a future place to retire.

1. How easy is it for US dentists to come and practice in Australia?

2. How's the income compared to US?

3. I hear everything is expensive there... Plus taxes are high. I'm assuming that's the reason you want to come down here in the U.S.?

Good luck with everything!

1. How will the NDEB guys help me? - Would you be able to provide some clarification? I contacted CODA and they said that my education was not recognised and I should probably contact the states for more information.

2.How easy is it for US dentists to come and practice in Australia - Actually very easy believe it or not! There are a lot of US qualified dentists in Australia. There is a pathway where you have to dont do any exam, but I am not too sure about it.

3. I think US income is a lot higher ! Especially for graduates. I have heard that graduates make $150000 USD starting salary (is this true?). Over here graduates start with $60000 AUD. Moreover, there is an oversupply and it is hard to find jobs.

4. Yes, everything is expensive but its not too bad. You can definitely make a saving. The reason I want to come to US is because of the higher standard of living and because I have a lot of relatives. It is also at the forefront of technology lol

Why would you want to move to Aus? I think you would be better off in the US if you already have an established practice!

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

1. How will the NDEB guys help me? - Would you be able to provide some clarification? I contacted CODA and they said that my education was not recognised and I should probably contact the states for more information.

2.How easy is it for US dentists to come and practice in Australia - Actually very easy believe it or not! There are a lot of US qualified dentists in Australia. There is a pathway where you have to dont do any exam, but I am not too sure about it.

3. I think US income is a lot higher ! Especially for graduates. I have heard that graduates make $150000 USD starting salary (is this true?). Over here graduates start with $60000 AUD. Moreover, there is an oversupply and it is hard to find jobs.

4. Yes, everything is expensive but its not too bad. You can definitely make a saving. The reason I want to come to US is because of the higher standard of living and because I have a lot of relatives. It is also at the forefront of technology lol

Why would you want to move to Aus? I think you would be better off in the US if you already have an established practice!

Why not just stay in Australia?

 

[Hotice]

1. How will the NDEB guys help me? - Would you be able to provide some clarification? I contacted CODA and they said that my education was not recognised and I should probably contact the states for more information.

2.How easy is it for US dentists to come and practice in Australia - Actually very easy believe it or not! There are a lot of US qualified dentists in Australia. There is a pathway where you have to dont do any exam, but I am not too sure about it.

3. I think US income is a lot higher ! Especially for graduates. I have heard that graduates make $150000 USD starting salary (is this true?). Over here graduates start with $60000 AUD. Moreover, there is an oversupply and it is hard to find jobs.

4. Yes, everything is expensive but its not too bad. You can definitely make a saving. The reason I want to come to US is because of the higher standard of living and because I have a lot of relatives. It is also at the forefront of technology lol

Why would you want to move to Aus? I think you would be better off in the US if you already have an established practice!

I'm sorry but your information is very flawed. I've never heard of an australian dentist who gets 60K. That's just not possible. I have 2 family members who are dentists and I myself is a final year dental student. Dentistry is the highest paid profession after graduation in Australia. An older classmate is making 25K net/month 6 months after graduation (although it's a regional town).

It's true there are a maldistributional of dentists now but that's affecting all professions every where else. My partner owns a practice and he is taking home between 400-500 annual income. He graduated 6 years ago.

I would suggest practicing in Australia instead of wasting couple of years trying to get accredited overseas. You have a very flawed picture in regards to working conditions for dentists in Australia and I think you are idealising working conditions and compensation rate in US.

If the only reason why you want to move in income, then I suggest you do more thorough research.

Best of luck!

 

[Cold Front]

I'm sorry but your information is very flawed. I've never heard of an australian dentist who gets 60K. That's just not possible. I have 2 family members who are dentists and I myself is a final year dental student. Dentistry is the highest paid profession after graduation in Australia. An older classmate is making 25K net/month 6 months after graduation (although it's a regional town).

It's true there are a maldistributional of dentists now but that's affecting all professions every where else. My partner owns a practice and he is taking home between 400-500 annual income. He graduated 6 years ago.

I would suggest practicing in Australia instead of wasting couple of years trying to get accredited overseas. You have a very flawed picture in regards to working conditions for dentists in Australia and I think you are idealising working conditions and compensation rate in US.

If the only reason why you want to move in income, then I suggest you do more thorough research.

Best of luck!

$25k a month at 6 months after graduation? How much do seasoned dentists make?

 

[Mandok]

I'm sorry but your information is very flawed. I've never heard of an australian dentist who gets 60K. That's just not possible. I have 2 family members who are dentists and I myself is a final year dental student. Dentistry is the highest paid profession after graduation in Australia. An older classmate is making 25K net/month 6 months after graduation (although it's a regional town).


It's true there are a maldistributional of dentists now but that's affecting all professions every where else. My partner owns a practice and he is taking home between 400-500 annual income. He graduated 6 years ago.

I would suggest practicing in Australia instead of wasting couple of years trying to get accredited overseas. You have a very flawed picture in regards to working conditions for dentists in Australia and I think you are idealising working conditions and compensation rate in US.

If the only reason why you want to move in income, then I suggest you do more thorough research.

Best of luck!

Thank you for your advice!

I have known people starting from $60000 (graduate). But I am well aware that experienced dentists make a lot more.

Many of my dental school's graduates were not able to secure a job in the private sector (even in regional areas) and hence had to go into the Public sector to gain additional experience. This was a couple of years ago. I believe that the situation has gotten only worse. Even the regional areas have started to have a lack of jobs currently.

It will get even worse as Australia is the only country in the world which has an intake of overseas dentists making up 50% of the entering new dental workforce. No other country gives out free permanent residences to dentists passing the examinations - ridiculously stupid!. Cracking the market is really difficult nowadays. Many of the new dentists are working three part-time jobs just to fill up 5 days a week.

At least the Americans are more protective about their profession.

Ultimately, it is not really the income that I am after. My desire to work in US steams from the belief that it offers better living conditions. Why work in Australia, when I can make the same amount in the US with a better lifestyle.
I am more than happy to forego a couple of years of my worklife in pursuit of a US licence.

 

[Mandok]

Additionally, Uni Of Toronto can let me transfer into their second year of DDS. But their tuition fees are $80000 CAD per year.

Do you think it is worthwhile?

Or should I apply to advanced standing at US universities such as Boston Uni after my degree.

 

[Hotice]

I agree. However, the ADA is doing something about it. We had a meeting earlier this year with the president of the ADA and he confirmed that from next year onwards they will be stopping overseas accreditation for overseas dentists as well as removing dentistry from the skill shortage visa.

I have friends who are working 2 part time jobs but just because they want to keep working in melbourne/sydney right after graduation.

I still believe you are more pessimistic about dentistry working conditions in Australia. However, if income is not your only motivation to move to the US and you are after the "American life style" then by all means go ahead.

I would advise getting to know an american dentist who is practicing there and go shadow him during your holidays just to be 100% sure about your decision.
You should make a pros and cons list re canada/US and see which is the right option for you now. It's true that tution is more expensive in Canada (hence the amount of Canadian international students in Australia).

Don't forget that in Australia you get the interest free loan from the government, whereas you have to pay straight from your pocket in Canada (or get a bank loan with high interest rate)

It is your choice afterall.

Best of luck!

 

[Hotice]

$25k a month at 6 months after graduation? How much do seasoned dentists make?

As I said, my husband has graduated 6 years ago and he is making 400-500K a year. (keep in mind that he owns his own practice and those rates are in Australian dollar)

His friends who work as associates make 200 plus depends on their location.

Rural areas are where the cash here. They are in huge shortage and people travel couple of hours to go visit a dentist ( I lived in rural area for 2 years with my husband when he was practicing there). But rural in Australia is really rural (I have no idea how it is in the US). The nearest big city to us was 5 hours driving. It can get really depressing if you don't use your weekends traveling etc.

However, since hubby was making more than average, we did take longer vacations at the end of the year (2 months+) and I think enjoyed a better life style.

 

[Cold Front]

As I said, my husband has graduated 6 years ago and he is making 400-500K a year. (keep in mind that he owns his own practice and those rates are in Australian dollar)

His friends who work as associates make 200 plus depends on their location.

Rural areas are where the cash here. They are in huge shortage and people travel couple of hours to go visit a dentist ( I lived in rural area for 2 years with my husband when he was practicing there). But rural in Australia is really rural (I have no idea how it is in the US). The nearest big city to us was 5 hours driving. It can get really depressing if you don't use your weekends traveling etc.

However, since hubby was making more than average, we did take longer vacations at the end of the year (2 months+) and I think enjoyed a better life style.

What type of insurance do people in the rural area (or Australia in general) have to cover they dental service? Or is everything fee for service (cash)?

 

[Mandok]

What type of insurance do people in the rural area (or Australia in general) have to cover they dental service? Or is everything fee for service (cash)?

Hi Cold Front,

Would you be able to answer my question?

Would it be better to transfer to a Canadian University (2nd Year) and pay $80000 CAD per year (total = $240000) . This will make my total degree length to 6 or 7 years.

Or Should I apply for IDP at university such as Boston after I graduate.

 

[strep mutans]

Ultimately, it is not really the income that I am after. My desire to work in US steams from the belief that it offers better living conditions. Why work in Australia, when I can make the same amount in the US with a better lifestyle.
I am more than happy to forego a couple of years of my worklife in pursuit of a US licence.

Have you ever been to the US? And for what length of time? No implications, just wondering. Most of the recent "quality of life" lists I've seen rank Australia above the US. America is not the land of opportunity it once was.

 

[Cold Front]

Hi Cold Front,

Would you be able to answer my question?

Would it be better to transfer to a Canadian University (2nd Year) and pay $80000 CAD per year (total = $240000) . This will make my total degree length to 6 or 7 years.

Or Should I apply for IDP at university such as Boston after I graduate.

Personally, I would go with option 2, if you plan on practicing in the U.S.

Canadian schools doesn't automatically give you privileges to practice in the U.S. You still need to apply Work Permit and residency in the U.S. A relatively lengthy immigration process and additional $$$, both in the process and potential income loss.

Economy is also improving in many parts of the states. So you are on the right trick if you choose to take it.

 

[Mandok]

Have you ever been to the US? And for what length of time? No implications, just wondering. Most of the recent "quality of life" lists I've seen rank Australia above the US. America is not the land of opportunity it once was.

Yes, I have been to the US, for a couple of months. I have relatives in US. I am quite confident about my choices.

For your information, the quality of life lists are definitely inaccurate. If you come to Australia, you will see what I really mean - Melbourne ranked as the best city - LOL. As the previous person commented on Australia having government healthcare, they are certainly having misconceptions. Yes, healthcare is free but to actually receive it you need to wait for 3-4 years and even then you will have a registrar operating on you ~ risky. Everyone really goes private.

Moreover, I was talking about the quality of life as a dentist (not an normal individual) in the states as compared to Australia. Dentistry in US provides way more opportunities (330 million population) than Australia (24 million). Additionally, as stated by the Hotice in previous posts, you need to go rural to have a good position and opportunity. Good luck with that! I currently live in the rural area and am definitely not enjoying it.

The big bucks are possible but only the most successful receive it. Not everyone does well. The income suggested by Hotice is the top tier income of dentist, which very few would achieve.

Lastly, there are just too many dentists in the Aus compared to the US. The dentist to population ratio is very high. Aus does not need 2 years of schooling to gain a licence. People just sit a clinical exam (manikin not real patient - makes it easier) and get their licence. Additionally, you are entitled to permanent residency upon passing the exams (dont need sponsorship). There are currently 500 Aus trained dentist and 500 internationals (mainly Indians) entering the workforce = 1000 total. In addition, the Irish (they have oversupply too), English and the Canadians also gain automatic registration.

So a 1000 dentists for 24 million population compared to 4000 dentist per year for 330 million (US), go compare which is better.

You just cannot go wrong with such a high population. The opportunities are endless.

 

[Mandok]

Personally, I would go with option 2, if you plan on practicing in the U.S.

Canadian schools doesn't automatically give you privileges to practice in the U.S. You still need to apply Work Permit and residency in the U.S. A relatively lengthy immigration process and additional $$$, both in the process and potential income loss.

Economy is also improving in many parts of the states. So you are on the right trick if you choose to take it.

How would going to an US dental school compare? Their fees are higher and how does it help me with the work permit and residency?

I was under the impression that I can apply for jobs at corporates such as Aspen after graduating from any accredited university (even Canadian).

So ultimately how would attending an US university benefit me? Is there some kind of government scheme where you can work for a couple of years without sponsorship?

 

[Mandok]

Thanks guys for your help 🙂