average board scores in rads

[coconut lime]

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i just got my scores back and i got a 237. i am pretty selective about staying in chicago.....is this a feasible goal? any input would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[SoCalRULES!!!!!]

Yeah 237 is good enough to stay in Chicago....if you are going into path or fam practice or psych.....

 

[juicyfruit]

237 is a good score, but will by no means guarantee you a spot in Chicago. To increase your chances, do away rotations and get involved in research. It will still be tough to get into UChicago or Northwestern with that score without research, but you have a shot at some of the other programs such as Loyola, UIC, etc... I would do an away rotation at one of these two places and get involved in research with some of their faculty. Good luck and I hope that this helps.

 

[Resident Alien]

A question for the two previous posters: what facts or knowldge on residency chances do you base your replies on? I ask not to challenge you, but because im curious too and am interested in how you arrived at your conclusions.

 

[juicyfruit]

I am currently a radiology resident at a "top 5" program. I have seen how strong the applicants are now and to tell you the truth, it is scary. They just keep getting stronger and stronger. For example, I heard that Northwestern interviewed 50 people with over 260 on their boards. At my program, almost everyone who matched here is either an MD-PhD, or has at least 2-3 publications, or did something really really unique in addition to having 240+, AOA and stellar letters of recommendation.

 

[Rod Farva]

I am currently a radiology resident at a "top 5" program. I have seen how strong the applicants are now and to tell you the truth, it is scary. They just keep getting stronger and stronger. For example, I heard that Northwestern interviewed 50 people with over 260 on their boards. At my program, almost everyone who matched here is either an MD-PhD, or has at least 2-3 publications, or did something really really unique in addition to having 240+, AOA and stellar letters of recommendation.

OK, but don't you think that those "stellar" applicants tend to apply to the same places (ie "top" 10-20)? What I'm getting at is that there are like 900-1000 spots nationwide in rads, and there is no way that all the spots nationwide go to applicants with those types of credentials. I'm interested in applying rads myself (with a 243, starting 3rd year), and I am not disheartened in the least by my "weak" score if I decide to apply rads. I know it's a really competitive time to get into rads, but "only" getting 237 does not seem that bad to me. Sure, it will be really competitive at the top, it always has been and always will be, but don't you think that if you apply to a mix of programs and don't restrict yourself to a specific region it is feasible to match fairly well with scores such as these? I know the original poster asked about Chicago, but again, aren't there less competitive programs around Chicago as well? Maybe I'm way off base here, but I think too often these forums cause people unnecessary anxiety about the match. Let me know if I'm wrong and if I should just quit third year now, do a year of rads research then resurface a year from now, but I for one am not all that worried about my prospects in matching somewhere a couple of years from now.

 

[juicyfruit]

I think it is reasonable to say that this applicant will have a difficult time matching into radiology IF he/she limits his/her applications ONLY to chicago schools, irregardless of whether there are middle tier and lower tier programs in Chicago. The fact is Chicago, CA, NY and boston are are all highly desirable locations and there will be plenty of strong applicants who are willing to turn down bigger name programs to live in these geographic areas. That being said, will he/she match into radiology? Probably, as long as he/she applies broadly and early. A little fear is probably a good thing. It will keep you on edge and prevent you from taking anything for granted and not matching. Most of the people that I know that didn't match were too complacent and only applied to a few programs (20-25) that were all top tier or in desirable locations. And yes, there were several people with 230+/240+ and even 250+ who were not psychos that still didn't match this year for the reasons above.

 

[Goober]

WellI think that a 237 is not going to keep you out of Chicago as long as the rest of your application is good. Of course the Coconut should definitely apply outside of Chicago to be safe.

There are some lower tier programs there such as Masonic, Cook County, and Michael Reese. I seriously doubt that 237 is below average at these programs.

 

[coconut lime]

thanks for all the responses, everyone. i really appreciate it.

 

[samsoccer7]

Based on a normal curve, only 3.7% of people should have scored 260+. I have no idea how many people took Step I last summer. If it was 16000, that makes ~600 people scoring above 260. You think, out of those 600 people, at least 50 of those going into radiology interviewed at Northwestern? I highly doubt it. Of those 600, I can't imagine more than 200 applied for rads, and 50 were all interested in Northwestern? And how many of those 50 matched? Most probably went elsewhere.

My point is, be careful what you read. It's competitive as hell out there, but people with 200 can match if they're intelligent with their applications.

 

[juicyfruit]

I am very good friends with a couple of people just applied this last year and they told me that most of the top programs received 600+ applications. Northwestern 600, UCSF 700, UPenn 800, etc... That is essentially half of the radiology applicant pool and most likely the upper half. If 4% of test-takers get 260+ and 20,000 people take the exam (including FMGs, IMGs, etc.. who also take up 20% of the radiology spots), that is approximately 800 people with 260+. Let's say 100 of these 800 apply into rads. It is not unreasonable for any one top-tier program to interview 50/100 applicants with 260+, that would be 1/2 (50/100) of all of the people who got 260+. Sorry for being a bit anal on this topic, but I just don't want people to get unrealistic expectations. Trust me, it is better to be afraid than to feel that "I will match somewhere" irregardless of how good your credentials are. Take nothing for granted and apply as if there is a good chance that you won't match. That way, you will apply to more programs, take each interview more seriously and ultimately give it your best effort.

 

[ktat72]

thanks juicyfruit for the advice. i will be applying this year with a subpar step 1 score (219) and this advice is helping me out.

 

[RLMD]

So if 237 is not a competitive score for rads, what is the magic number?
240+?
1 SD above the mean?
250+?
Or is it whatever score that gets you that 99 on your two-digit score?

 

[puffy1]

A rads program director recently told me that a Step 1 score >230 "Would open a lot of doors to you, not just here, but abroad". Whether or not he was speaking about the programs in Chicago/Boston/NY/Cali, I don't know.

To say that you've got to have a Step 1 score >250 to be considered a competitive applicant for a radiology residency may be true for Northwestern or Penn, but this isn't the case for many other places. There's a rads program in Tennessee that listed their average matched applicant over the past 5 years as having scored an average of 221/89 on Step 1.

 

[juicyfruit]

The fact is there is no magic number at the top programs to guarantee an interview. In terms of cutoffs alone, the highest that exists is probably 240. Research can offset a lower board score, as can AOA, coming from a great med school and sometimes amazing letters of recommendation. Also keep in mind, tennessee's average board score over the past 5 years was 222, which includes matched applicants when rads was less competitive, so the average in the last two years is probably closer to 230. Also, almost nobody will get an interview everywhere they apply because on the flip side, while most programs won't give you interviews b/c you didn't make their "cut", other programs will not give you interviews b/c they think you're too good for them. Hence, the advice to apply very broadly.

 

[puffy1]

I've been under the impression that radiology has been a competitive specialty for some time, at least longer than the last two years. I'm sure it has gotten increasingly competitive lately, but to say that you're getting an almost 10-point jump in average scores from one year to the next is hard to swallow. You're implying that the average accepted scores in the previous three years (at least at Tennessee) was in the mid 210s, which seems low, even if it wasn't as competitive as it may be today.

I totally agree with you that the prudent thing to do is to give yourself as many chances from an application standpoint and let nature take its course.