Average for Step 1 increasing every year! What is a competitive score now a days?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
sinombre said:
Yep, and schools are incorporating review courses into their curricula.
Click to expand...

One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
 
NickNaylor said:
One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
Click to expand...

We didn't even get a single stinking NBME voucher.

tripple-h-is-not-happy.gif
 
NickNaylor said:
One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
Click to expand...

Students are also complaining about paying too much for tuition. Schools don't pay for this stuff from the goodness of their hearts, and I bet that their tuition covers the cost of those items.

They charge more->increase their step scores->build a better reputation->begin the cycle all over again.

StIGMA said:
Something to consider: the 226 is the average matched score from US senior applicants who probably took the test in 2009. If you include matched independent applicants, the average is 224. The mean step 1 score at this time was no higher than 221 or so.

For a 228 step 1 average (which includes failures and people who will not match), the mean step 1 for matched US seniors will likely be in the low 230 range.

Regarding score inflation, the mean was 221 on a the step 1 score report from early/mid 2011. I'm shocked if the mean changed from 221 to 228 in 3 years.
Click to expand...

You lost me at the last line. The mean is indeed 221 from 2011, and indeed 228 this year.

What is even scarier guys, is that 2011 match data is based of 2009 Step scores when the average was 215. Scores today are 228. That means for people taking the test this year, expect your class to have the averages of all the match results in each specialty increased by around 7 points. People need to realize this. 2011 data is fine to go off of, but you must adjust for the recent grade jumps. If people go off just the 2011 data, they may be surprised by the results as they think that their 232 score is competitive for a residency that says 235 on the 2011 data, when in reality the average matched candidate may very well be 242.

Edit: these are the revised numbers from the links provided below.
Year Score & SD
STEP 2014 228 21
STEP 2013 228 21 -> This year's match candidates
STEP 2012 227 22
STEP 2011 224 22
STEP 2010 222 24
STEP 2009 221 24 -> Class of 2011 Match data
 
Last edited:
Humans are getting smarter with time. It's called evolution. Embrace it people.
 
Longhorn16 said:
the standard deviation this year was 21, so a 250 is just about 1 standard deviation above. not sure if that's different from the past!
Click to expand...

Step 1 distribution isn't normal, so a standard deviation is essentially worthless. If it were a normal distribution, you'd expect ~2.5% of all test takers to hit a 270. I highly doubt the real percentage is even 1%.
 
NickNaylor said:
One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
Click to expand...

Lol my school wouldn't even help my class get a discount for a three month uworld subscription. This was after one of our students did all the work already and basically just needed to collect money. In fact, they had the gall to threaten disciplinary action against the student including expulsion for trying to do so. It was completely absurd

Then they raised tuition on us this year nearly 10% after they did that last year. Better not call me for a donation
 
Psai said:
Lol my school wouldn't even help my class get a discount for a three month uworld subscription. This was after one of our students did all the work already and basically just needed to collect money. In fact, they had the gall to threaten disciplinary action against the student including expulsion for trying to do so. It was completely absurd

Then they raised tuition on us this year nearly 10% after they did that last year. Better not call me for a donation
Click to expand...

😕

Our school didn't do this for us either, but a student always got it organized somehow.
 
I also think some of these numbers are off. From a google search, the Step 1 average in 2009 was in the low 220s. So 2009 and 2010 are likely to be in the low 220s as well.


InVivo said:
What is even scarier guys, is that 2011 match data is based of 2009 Step scores when the average was 215. Scores today are 228. That means for people taking the test this year, expect your class to have the averages of all the match results in each specialty increased by around 13 points. People need to realize this. 2011 data is fine to go off of, but you must adjust for the recent grade jumps. The real jump occurred from 2012 (220 avg) to 2013 (227). I have a strong suspicion there will be significantly more people who are unmatched this year because they think that their 232 score is competitive for a residency that says 235 on the 2011 data, when in reality the average matched candidate may very well be 247.

Edit: these numbers posted in another thread are what I am basing the numbers off of.
Year Score & SD
STEP 2014 228 21
STEP 2013 227 22 -> This year's match candidates
STEP 2012 220 20
STEP 2011 221 23
STEP 2010 218 23
STEP 2009 215 20 -> Class of 2011 Match data
Click to expand...
 
NickNaylor said:
One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
Click to expand...
WOW!!! I always laugh at the medical schools that buy Exammasters for their students in their libraries for Step 1. :smack:
 
Psai said:
Lol my school wouldn't even help my class get a discount for a three month uworld subscription. This was after one of our students did all the work already and basically just needed to collect money. In fact, they had the gall to threaten disciplinary action against the student including expulsion for trying to do so. It was completely absurd

Then they raised tuition on us this year nearly 10% after they did that last year. Better not call me for a donation
Click to expand...
And now you know why certain medical schools have trouble getting their alumni med students to donate (esp. state med schools) vs. private medical schools.
 
InVivo said:
Students are also complaining about paying too much for tuition. Schools don't pay for this stuff from the goodness of their hearts, and I bet that their tuition covers the cost of those items.
Click to expand...
:lame:
 
I could be way off base here, but what's everyone's take on the idea that scores are going up so much because of IMGs now taking this test even more seriously than they used to because of how hard it is becoming for them to match in the states. There are better resources now, but it's not like US students suddenly have more time to study, so it seems unlikely like they are the ones driving up the scores so much. I don't have anything to back this up...just a thought...
 
The AAMC Careers in Medicine site (http://aamc.org/cim) has some updated information from the 2012-2013 entering classes for each specialty. Checking their data against the Charting Outcomes 2011 shows some changes - for the specialty I'm applying for, step scores haven't changed by more than 1-2 points but more applicants seem to be doing research and getting publications out. Just an extra resource so we can bring this discussion back around to data rather than speculating that the average is now 10-15 points higher for everything. 😱

At some point, do PD's really care all that much about a a 10-point difference as long as you're above their cutoff? It would seem that once you reach a certain cut-off with your score it would come down to fit, personality, and what you bring to the program. It would just be absurd if during the rank list meeting someone said "Well, Applicant A's step 1 is 222 and we really liked them, but Applicant B's score was 234 so we should rank them higher." This could only really be a problem if the cut-off score for a program has gone up dramatically in the past few years, but from the specialties I've looked at on CiM the averages seem pretty constant - the only difference is that there are now more applicants for each specialty on the high end of the score range (>250).
 
sobored said:
I could be way off base here, but what's everyone's take on the idea that scores are going up so much because of IMGs now taking this test even more seriously than they used to because of how hard it is becoming for them to match in the states. There are better resources now, but it's not like US students suddenly have more time to study, so it seems unlikely like they are the ones driving up the scores so much. I don't have anything to back this up...just a thought...
Click to expand...
There have always been IMGs taking the USMLE.
 
DermViser said:
The average in 2009 was 221: http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle1-09.pdf
Click to expand...

It's a bit curious as to how the UVa average Step 1 (from a very good school) has stayed at 233 up until 2013 while the national average has gone up from 221-->228 (2009-->2013). This argues that the rise in scores occurs in the 210-235 range. It just shows how difficult it is to score over 235, especially considering that med students are smart and very hard working. Whew!

http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle1-13.pdf
 
GyroProtagonist said:
The AAMC Careers in Medicine site (http://aamc.org/cim) has some updated information from the 2012-2013 entering classes for each specialty. Checking their data against the Charting Outcomes 2011 shows some changes - for the specialty I'm applying for, step scores haven't changed by more than 1-2 points but more applicants seem to be doing research and getting publications out. Just an extra resource so we can bring this discussion back around to data rather than speculating that the average is now 10-15 points higher for everything. 😱

At some point, do PD's really care all that much about a a 10-point difference as long as you're above their cutoff? It would seem that once you reach a certain cut-off with your score it would come down to fit, personality, and what you bring to the program. It would just be absurd if during the rank list meeting someone said "Well, Applicant A's step 1 is 222 and we really liked them, but Applicant B's score was 234 so we should rank them higher." This could only really be a problem if the cut-off score for a program has gone up dramatically in the past few years, but from the specialties I've looked at on CiM the averages seem pretty constant - the only difference is that there are now more applicants for each specialty on the high end of the score range (>250).
Click to expand...
There's a big difference btw a 222 vs. 234.
 
DermViser said:
Again. IMGs have ALWAYS taken the exam seriously.
Click to expand...

1. That's not what you said the first time.
2. I said maybe they are taking it even more seriously and studying longer and harder for it than they used to because of how hard it is getting for them to match in the US. Again, I said this is just some speculation to discuss, but I bet it has more merit than you think.
 
I agree that there's a big difference between a 222 and a 234, but that difference is likely to matter more for which programs/specialties one is competitive for rather than affecting the rank list for a specific program. 222 vs 234 may be extreme - what about 242 vs 249? Or any other 5-10 point difference (with the SEM for Step 1 at 6, that difference is well within the margin of error for the score report).

Let's say that Program A only looks at >230, but Program B looks at all applicants who passed the first time. The better step score probably wouldn't have as much of an affect on the rank list after the interview/everything else. This is borne out by the 2012 NRMP program director survey, where Step 1 was the most important factor in inviting a candidate to interview, but less important than personal qualities/fit after the interview.

I think that Cyal has the right reason for the increase in average score - more students are scoring in the 225-235 range than were previously, rather than everyone suddenly bumping up 10 points. Basically, it seems that it's more important than ever to score at or above the average, but once you get into the higher ranges your exact score matters much less than the fact that you did well/met the cut-off.
 
sobored said:
1. That's not what you said the first time.
2. I said maybe they are taking it even more seriously and studying longer and harder for it than they used to because of how hard it is getting for them to match in the US. Again, I said this is just some speculation to discuss, but I bet it has more merit than you think.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I assumed that it was implied, as no IMG takes these exams not seriously, and this was long before the match crunch. They have always realized that they need to score higher than the AMG average for a chance at even the most non-competitive residencies. And they would always study for years as they get longer than the AMG.
 
GyroProtagonist said:
I agree that there's a big difference between a 222 and a 234, but that difference is likely to matter more for which programs/specialties one is competitive for rather than affecting the rank list for a specific program. 222 vs 234 may be extreme - what about 242 vs 249? Or any other 5-10 point difference (with the SEM for Step 1 at 6, that difference is well within the margin of error for the score report).

Let's say that Program A only looks at >230, but Program B looks at all applicants who passed the first time. The better step score probably wouldn't have as much of an affect on the rank list after the interview/everything else. This is borne out by the 2012 NRMP program director survey, where Step 1 was the most important factor in inviting a candidate to interview, but less important than personal qualities/fit after the interview.

I think that Cyal has the right reason for the increase in average score - more students are scoring in the 225-235 range than were previously, rather than everyone suddenly bumping up 10 points. Basically, it seems that it's more important than ever to score at or above the average, but once you get into the higher ranges your exact score matters much less than the fact that you did well/met the cut-off.
Click to expand...
222 (below the mean score) vs. 234 (above mean score) and nearly 12 point difference

242 (1 standard deviation above) vs. 249 (1 standard deviation above) only 7 pt difference.
 
Cyal said:
It's a bit curious as to how the UVa average Step 1 (from a very good school) has stayed at 233 up until 2013 while the national average has gone up from 221-->228 (2009-->2013). This argues that the rise in scores occurs in the 210-235 range. It just shows how difficult it is to score over 235, especially considering that med students are smart and very hard working. Whew!

http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle1-13.pdf
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
DermViser said:
Your numbers are off. The real numbers are here:
http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm
Click to expand...

Wow. This resource is an incredible find. Tells me a lot about what goes on behind the scenes, but I always like to read too much into these things.
1) The score inflation isnt as bad as previously I thought (making me and everyone else feel better about our 2014 scores)
2) It tells me that all schools should get this cool report with all these analytics (making me wonder how schools use this info)
3) The bar graph for 2011-2013 group scores in increments of 15 (the psychological barriers for administrators may not be at every 10 pts, like how most people think. (e.g. 239 is in the same category as 240, 249 is in the same category as 250)
4) The line on the score report that says, "most scores [fall] between 140 and 260" is actually more like "most scores fall between 186-260". This is important because that means that there aren't actually that many 150's skewing the average down as the first quote would make it seem.
5) The distribution for the scores is more normal than I thought. It seems like the median for the scores probably around 228 for 2013 as well.

sobored said:
I could be way off base here, but what's everyone's take on the idea that scores are going up so much because of IMGs now taking this test even more seriously than they used to because of how hard it is becoming for them to match in the states. There are better resources now, but it's not like US students suddenly have more time to study, so it seems unlikely like they are the ones driving up the scores so much. I don't have anything to back this up...just a thought...
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any data concerning IMGs. Most of the score reports specifically state that they reflect 1st time takers from US and Canadian schools. Therefore, IMG increases wouldn't be well reflected in the score increases reported in those numbers.

Edit: Canadian- not caribbean schools
 
Last edited:
InVivo said:
Wow. This resource is an incredible find. Tells me a lot about what goes on behind the scenes, but I always like to read too much into these things.
1) The score inflation isnt as bad as previously I thought (making me and everyone else feel better about our 2014 scores)
2) It tells me that all schools should get this cool report with all these analytics (making me wonder how schools use this info)
3) The bar graph for 2011-2013 group scores in increments of 15 (the psychological barriers for administrators may not be at every 10 pts, like how most people think. (e.g. 239 is in the same category as 240, 249 is in the same category as 250)
4) The line on the score report that says, "most scores [fall] between 140 and 260" is actually more like "most scores fall between 186-260". This is important because that means that there aren't actually that many 150's skewing the average down as the first quote would make it seem.
5) The distribution for the scores is, more normal than I thought, seems like the median for the scores probably around 228 for 2013 as well.
Click to expand...
Well every school gets them, it just so happens that University of Virginia is the only one that's transparent about them - likely due to their students doing so well on the Steps.
 
InVivo said:
I haven't seen any data concerning IMGs. Most of the score reports specifically state that they reflect 1st time takers from US and Caribbean schools. Therefore, IMG increases wouldn't be well reflected in the score increases reported in those numbers.
Click to expand...

Good observation. I just looked at my score report and it does actually say 1st time test takers from the US and Canada.
 
Question...

Let's take Plastic Surgery. The 2011 Charting outcomes data has PS Step 1 score avg of 249. The AAMC CiM site has PS step 1 avg for 2012-2013 entering residents at 244.

For Derm, the 2011 Charting Outcomes data has Derm step 1 avg at 244 vs the 2012-2013 CiM Derm Step 1 avg at 241

How does one explain this discrepancy with the sudden rise in step 1 scores? Is the CiM data wrong? How can PS drop 5 points when the step 1 avg in 2009 vs 2011 (presumably when the 2013 class took step 1) went up by 6 points...
 
I guess the average will be 240 by 2016 and 210 will be the passing score...
 
Last edited:
People who are gung-ho about Derm should be ready for plan B i.e a FM residency, then a derm fellowship 😛
 
Psai said:
The level of overanalysis based on incomplete data and conjecture here rivals anything I've seen in preallo
Click to expand...

Hey, if I had to do it on Step 1 to determine what residency I am going to get, I should be able to do it casually as well.
 
NickNaylor said:
One of the free clinics we work at is staffed by medical students from the other medical schools in the city. I was talking to one of the MS2s who said that their school pays for a Firecracker subscription, a 6-month UWorld subscription, AND several NBME practice exam vouchers,

Schwaaaaat? That puts the 2 NBME vouchers we got to shame.
Click to expand...

Eh I'd say you benefited more than the students of the other schools. It's not like they're getting that stuff for free, and I doubt they're giving the students any discount in terms of adding it to tuition. I look at it as the same in terms of cost in the end, except you get the freedom to choose to pay/not pay for those resources. I always laugh when kids in my class are like " ZOMG WE GET UWORLD FOR FREE YAY YAY YAY" and it's like, uhh no you paid for it in your tuition. By that logic, the 1000 dollar charge on our tuition for the rec center means we all get to go to the gym for free.
 
PL198 said:
Eh I'd say you benefited more than the students of the other schools. It's not like they're getting that stuff for free, and I doubt they're giving the students any discount in terms of adding it to tuition. I look at it as the same in terms of cost in the end, except you get the freedom to choose to pay/not pay for those resources. I always laugh when kids in my class are like " ZOMG WE GET UWORLD FOR FREE YAY YAY YAY" and it's like, uhh no you paid for it in your tuition. By that logic, the 1000 dollar charge on our tuition for the rec center means we all get to go to the gym for free.
Click to expand...
The same ones who pay the membership fee for AMSA and are happy they got a "free" Netter's atlas. 😵
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Notthatdoctor
What is the best time for steps in six year system?
Replies
2
Views
770
voxveritatisetlucis
V
cerebellar
Step 1 advice!
Replies
0
Views
719
cerebellar
cerebellar
S
M1 Step 1 Advice
Replies
4
Views
978
Goro
Goro
S
What to do step 1 fail and how to navigate this?
Replies
9
Views
903
janprincetondoc
J
D
Is there a benefit to doing Step 1 Amboss on top of Step 1 UWorld for Step 2?
Replies
14
Views
5K
PandaBaer
PandaBaer
Top