"Average" GPA/MCAT?

[Heplayer92]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

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[mct2762]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

yes.... each school will have slightly different numbers...

 

[orangeman25]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

U of M is a good school, which is why the the numbers are a little lower from there. Basically goes to show that school prestige plays a small role.

 

[Oso]

U of M is a good school, which is why the the numbers are a little lower from there. Basically goes to show that school prestige plays a small role.

There are also a ton of medical schools in the state of Michigan, several of which are not that competitive in terms of gpa/mcat (relatively speaking). I'm sure that plays a role in the slightly lower avg numbers of accepted students from UM.

 

[Heplayer92]

Thanks for all of your insight. Much appreciated! It's just weird to me that they don't advertise this more. Many of my university friends are freaking out because of their GPA, but I keep telling them that it does vary among school. If anyone has anything else to add/discuss, that'd be more than welcomed!

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[NoDakDok]

The AAMC facts table represents the largest possible sample size (all applicants). The UM statistics only represent a very small fraction of that entire sample. The UM cohort is likely skewed from the average number due to the large number of medical schools in the state of Michigan, the familiar name of the school, and other miscellaneous factors that vary from year to year and applicant to applicant. It certainly does not mean that it is easier to get into medical school by attending UM, though they may market it as such.

 

[Warhawk15]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

I think that it all depends on the school you are applying to and the competition in your specific app cycle. I'm a Louisiana resident and will have a good chance getting in with a 3.9 and 28 MCAT at my state schools, however, don't neglect the importance of EC's and experiences in healthcare.

 

[Heplayer92]

The AAMC facts table represents the largest possible sample size (all applicants). The UM statistics only represent a very small fraction of that entire sample. The UM cohort is likely skewed from the average number due to the large number of medical schools in the state of Michigan, the familiar name of the school, and other miscellaneous factors that vary from year to year and applicant to applicant. It certainly does not mean that it is easier to get into medical school by attending UM, though they may market it as such.

Well in a sense it does right?

For instance, graduating from a "lesser" (hate that term) state school such as Central Michigan or Western Michigan with similar GPAs would be less impressive than graduating with those numbers from Michigan. I guess it's just very difficult to compare GPAs across schools, which is why schools such as Michigan have their own average statistics. Somewhat helpful I guess...

 

[Great White Buffalo]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

I am a U of M student, check out my MDAPPS. Depends where you apply and where you want to go, bit of a crap shoot (got admitted to MSU and U of M, waitlisted at Wayne, go figure). I didn't apply to all the Michigan schools, but Oakland, Central, and Western take a lot of U of M students. Look at the matriculants by school at each. For U of M, there is a tracker that publishes applications, interviews and admits by School.

For U of M Medical School: Applications from U of M Undergrad 577, Interviews offered 95, Admission offers 53
A bit less than 10% of U of M students who apply to U of M medical get admitted. So, at U of M Medical School, about 25% of the students are U of M undergrads for a class of 170 students.

Best wishes to you on your application cycle. It is a brutal process, and keeping the GPA up is key, no matter what the "averages" say.

 

[Heplayer92]

I am a U of M student, check out my MDAPPS. Depends where you apply and where you want to go, bit of a crap shoot (got admitted to MSU and U of M, waitlisted at Wayne, go figure). I didn't apply to all the Michigan schools, but Oakland, Central, and Western take a lot of U of M students. Look at the matriculants by school at each. For U of M, there is a tracker that publishes applications, interviews and admits by School.

For U of M Medical School: Applications from U of M Undergrad 577, Interviews offered 95, Admission offers 53
A bit less than 10% of U of M students who apply to U of M medical get admitted. So, at U of M Medical School, about 25% of the students are U of M undergrads for a class of 170 students.

Best wishes to you on your application cycle. It is a brutal process, and keeping the GPA up is key, no matter what the "averages" say.

Good for you! Nice to see a fellow wolverine that has had success this cycle, congrats bud!

That is interesting that you got into MSU and U of M, but not Wayne. Goes to show that there really aren't "safety schools" in the medical school process. Thanks for the feedback, and good luck in your future! And always, GO BLUE!

 

[ruedjgtc]

Hi all,

According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf , the average cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of matriculants in 2012 is 3.76/3.63/31.3.

However, my school, the University of Michigan, posted that the average U of M graduate that matriculates into medical school has a 3.63/3.55/31.2.

Does this mean that the mean statistics for schools are a bit misleading? I'm just a bit curious. Do adcoms often compare applicants with previous applications from the same school? Could the statistics be skewed in the other direction for other schools?

If anyone has any insight, that'd be awesome!

Appreciate it.

As already correctly asserted, each school will have different numbers and these are all amalgamated to make the mean that you see via the AAMC. This would still mean that each school has their own mean, because it's their own internal numbers. The only way to really see what's going on is to use the MSAR, and look at the data released by each school individually. FYI there's a lot more data published in the MSAR that's not listed at any schools' website. Don't let the numbers fool you though, what people don't bring to the table in scores they usually bring in forms of research (perhaps even publications) and/or substantial leadership experience etc -- i.e. holistic selection criteria.

 

[moop]

Good for you! Nice to see a fellow wolverine that has had success this cycle, congrats bud!

That is interesting that you got into MSU and U of M, but not Wayne. Goes to show that there really aren't "safety schools" in the medical school process. Thanks for the feedback, and good luck in your future! And always, GO BLUE!

Most likely Wayne wanted to protect its yield and his scores were too high for them to take him that seriously. This is becoming a trend for mid and low tier schools, most notably GWU, BU, and Georgetown with their 10k apps..

 

[Temerit]

It's amazing to me how much weight GPA can carry given how completely incomparable GPAs are from school to school.

 

[orangeman25]

Most likely Wayne wanted to protect its yield and his scores were too high for them to take him that seriously. This is becoming a trend for mid and low tier schools, most notably GWU, BU, and Georgetown with their 10k apps..

BU has an average GPA of 3.8 and MCAT of 35. That's basically the same stats of U of M. BU can take whoever they want.

 

[moop]

BU has an average GPA of 3.8 and MCAT of 35. That's basically the same stats of U of M. BU can take whoever they want.

..no they don't.

"The mean undergraduate GPA in this group was 3.68 and the mean MCAT quantitative sub-test total was 34"
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/

BU is notorious for not giving IIs to those with stats much higher than their 3.6/34 averages. Check the BU threads and you'll see; many top achievers that get into top 15s are denied IIs from BU, most probably because the school is trying to protect their yield.

 

[Heplayer92]

Man, seems like there are so much "hidden agendas" behind the acceptance/interview/secondary process. Oyyy

 

[ace12345]

Get a good mcat, get good ECs, and you'd be surprised how low GPAs can go. Obviously they need to be acceptable, but I don't think they get the focus that the other two do. The mcat particularly will crush you if you do not do well, regardless of GPA.

 

[orangeman25]

..no they don't.

"The mean undergraduate GPA in this group was 3.68 and the mean MCAT quantitative sub-test total was 34"
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/

BU is notorious for not giving IIs to those with stats much higher than their 3.6/34 averages. Check the BU threads and you'll see; many top achievers that get into top 15s are denied IIs from BU, most probably because the school is trying to protect their yield.

The MSAR reports a 3.8/35 average. I find those numbers more accurate because you have to be accepted to a school before you matriculate there. Obviously the MSAR numbers are a little higher, but that just reflects the average profile that BU accepts, which is what one initially aims to do.

Perhaps BU isn't upper tier or elite, or whatever else we like to call those top schools. But a 3.8/35 on MSAR speaks for itself.

And anyway, if BU was trying to protect it's yield, why would the average acceptee stats be a 3.8/35? Your argument fails to convince me.

 

[moop]

The MSAR reports a 3.8/35 average. I find those numbers more accurate because you have to be accepted to a school before you matriculate there. Obviously the MSAR numbers are a little higher, but that just reflects the average profile that BU accepts, which is what one initially aims to do.

Perhaps BU isn't upper tier or elite, or whatever else we like to call those top schools. But a 3.8/35 on MSAR speaks for itself.

And anyway, if BU was trying to protect it's yield, why would the average acceptee stats be a 3.8/35? Your argument fails to convince me.

-smh- Ok basic stats lesson desperately needed here. MSAR data is all median. School websites like I cited like to give averages.

BU's median is 3.8/35, average is 3.68/34. Average (mean) is not median. Median > mean indicates left skew. The MSAR stats are higher because they are not the average stats.

By "BU protects its yield," I mean that history shows us that the 3.9/38 applicant is more likely to not be granted an II. My argument is based on the impressions of the entire SDN community on this matter, and I'm telling you BU/GW/Gtown do this to their applicants because they have 10,000+ applications every year. If you don't believe that, then ok, but at least know the difference between mean and median.

 

[orangeman25]

-smh- Ok basic stats lesson desperately needed here. MSAR data is all median. School websites like I cited like to give averages.

BU's median is 3.8/35, average is 3.68/34. Average (mean) is not median. Median > mean indicates left skew. The MSAR stats are higher because they are not the average stats.

By "BU protects its yield," I mean that history shows us that the 3.9/38 applicant is more likely to not be granted an II. My argument is based on the impressions of the entire SDN community on this matter, and I'm telling you BU/GW/Gtown do this to their applicants because they have 10,000+ applications every year. If you don't believe that, then ok, but at least know the difference between mean and median.

Even if it is the median, it still doesn't make sense that BU would protect its yield. High median stats just means that they are giving out IIs to high stat applicants more than you believe they are.

 

[NoDakDok]

Well in a sense it does right?

For instance, graduating from a "lesser" (hate that term) state school such as Central Michigan or Western Michigan with similar GPAs would be less impressive than graduating with those numbers from Michigan. I guess it's just very difficult to compare GPAs across schools, which is why schools such as Michigan have their own average statistics. Somewhat helpful I guess...

The process behind medical admissions being so tedious, long, obscure, and subjective completely obfuscates low sample size statistics and any conclusions you may draw from them. It really doesn't show it is easier to obtain medical admission because they attended UM in any way. There are private schools that render medical admission rates > 90%, but that doesn't mean attending that undergraduate institution will increase your chance of admission to medical school. However schools can, and do, twist statistics (even counterintuitive ones!) in order to make them appear the most appealing to prospective students, because education is a cash cow.

At the very least, you could create a cohort of Michigan schools and compare their averages in order to minimize confounding variables, as you suggested, but that is not the case of the OP. It would also not control between admissions preferences, curriculum differences, and the premedical resources available at those schools, which is incredibly important and impossible to control for.

 

[LizzyM]

We seem to be confusing things here... the MSAR will not tell you the average GPA and MCAT of undergraduates at a given undergraduate institution who matriculate to medical school.

I highly doubt that the average GPA and MCAT for BU undergrads who matriculate to medical school is 3.8 and 35.

Some schools may be considered more rigorous than others (UMichigan might be one of the more rigorous) such that a slightly lower than national average GPA will have some traction with adcoms. Some schools may produce more pre-meds in notoriously GPA-killing majors such as engineering and if those applicants are admitted to medical school despite GPAs below the national average then they will also pull down the undergrad institution's "average" GPA. Note that UMichigan's average MCAT for undergrads who matriculate to medical school is very, very close to the national average for all med school matriculants.

 

[Heplayer92]

We seem to be confusing things here... the MSAR will not tell you the average GPA and MCAT of undergraduates at a given undergraduate institution who matriculate to medical school.

I highly doubt that the average GPA and MCAT for BU undergrads who matriculate to medical school is 3.8 and 35.

Some schools may be considered more rigorous than others (UMichigan might be one of the more rigorous) such that a slightly lower than national average GPA will have some traction with adcoms. Some schools may produce more pre-meds in notoriously GPA-killing majors such as engineering and if those applicants are admitted to medical school despite GPAs below the national average then they will also pull down the undergrad institution's "average" GPA. Note that UMichigan's average MCAT for undergrads who matriculate to medical school is very, very close to the national average for all med school matriculants.

Woohoo, thank you all for the insight, much appreciated!