Avoiding the divorce phenomenon

[drhope31]

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I'm starting my 2nd year of medical school and my wife is feed up with all the alone time and taking care of our children. I'm looking for any suggestions out there especially those that have real experience with this. I am hoping to avoid being a statistic. Thanks in advance to all those who reply.

 

[jjoeirv]

I am surprised you would even be asking a question like that. I thought women loved to marry doctors, because of their high salaries and social status. A doctor can literally pick any woman he wants.

Is there actually a divorce phenomenon among doctors? I doubt that. If a woman divorced a doctor, then marries another man, there is no where else for her to go but down. All jobs are basically inferior to medicine, in both salary and social status.

If she is complaining, I don't think you should worry about that. She would never divorce you. Just ignore her, and concentrate on your studies.

 

[SouthernGirl]

Um, ignore what the above poster just said. 😛
Check out SDN's Spouse and Partner Forum--there are some other married med students or people married TO med students (including people with kids) who can give you some good advice. I am nowhere near married, so I can't speak from experience here or give you any great advice, but I just wanted to make sure you know that the Spouse/Partner forum exists. Good luck 🙂.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=29

 

[drhope31]

I didn't go to that forum because I wanted to get med students advice, not spouses of med students advice!

 

[Primate]

Hi,

The only advice I have is obvious but difficult to do. You need to work at a good marriage, whether you're in med-school or doing ANYTHING else (btw, if you just "Just ignore her, and concentrate on your studies," you're screwed, IMO). Medicine is just another career, with its own requriements, etc. A marriage should (again IMO) supercede career choices. That's not to say that medicine isn't compatible with a good marriage. However, it requires WORK WORK WORK. This is always true, without regard to profession.

I've made it work by concentrating my efforts. I read when I need to (and don't do extra work to suck up to attendings - do what you need to do to become a competent physician), but try to do so after the kids are in bed or before everyone is up. I've given up "The Real World" and other time-vortices in favor of studying (well, the History Channel can still suck me in, sometimes). We get away whenever we can (whole family AND just the two of us - even if it's to a bookstore for a cup of coffee together). I pitch in with the kids and house - alot. I don't know your situation, but solid romance presupposes helping with the dishes and other scutwork at home.

A good and LASTING marriage is not glamorous. It requires, like having children, constant effort and never taking your partner for granted. Of course (once again, IMO) the rewards, like with children, far outweigh the effort.

Look at where you spend time and try to concentrate your efforts on the important stuff. Only you, however, can decide what is important.

I truly hope this not particularly insightful advice helps. Having my wife as a partner in this whole thing has made it alot easier. Having the kids has put it all in perspective.

(btw, wtf jjoeirv? Tongue in cheek, I hope)

 

[ArrogantSurgeon]

Originally posted by jjoeirv
I am surprised you would even be asking a question like that. I thought women loved to marry doctors, because of their high salaries and social status. A doctor can literally pick any woman he wants.

Is there actually a divorce phenomenon among doctors? I doubt that. If a woman divorced a doctor, then marries another man, there is no where else for her to go but down. All jobs are basically inferior to medicine, in both salary and social status.

If she is complaining, I don't think you should worry about that. She would never divorce you. Just ignore her, and concentrate on your studies.

That is the greatest advice I have ever heard on this issue. A woman should be honored that a future physician made her his wife. She's married to a future doctor and yet she has the nerve to complain about not seeing him enough...that's just selfish considering how busy med students and doctors are. Tell her to get used to it since it won't really change during residency. Some people will never be satisfied no matter what. Don't let this affect your USMLE score.

 

[daveyboy]

Remember what the intern said when he was dumping Elaine on Seinfeld. "I always knew I'd dump who I was with when I was in med school for somebody better. That's every doctors dream. That's why I went to med school."😀

 

[ironey]

Very good advice from Primate.

You may also want to check out www.mommd.com. There are lots of women doctors with children AND doctors' wives who contribute to the forum and have good insight into what it takes to keep a marriage going under stressful circumstances.

You said that you have kids at home. One thing that I've heard time and time again from other SAHMs is that they NEVER get time off. Having young kids is stressful. Have you thought of hiring a babysitter to give your wife one day a week off so she can take care of herself? Sometimes people forget that they have to take care of themselves before they can devote their energies to taking care of other people. At this point in your life, you are probably very demanding on her support resources (which is very natural). Acknowledging that fact and having concerned conversations with your wife may help.

Oh, and a day at the spa doesn't hurt, either!

 

[fourthyear]

I don't have children yet, but I got married a year before med school, and graduated this year, still so happily married that my husband is completely supportive of me doing a surgery residency...so I can at least give you some advice, although I realize children make the demands at home much greater.

I would suggest making sure your wife gets involved in other interests besides just the home and the kids. My husband has a satisfying job, outside friends, and loves to go/watch to sporting events with his friends in his free time. I don't usually feel like I am ignoring him when I'm working or studying, because he's often having more fun on his own doing something - usually i'm more jealous than guilty about working late!

Maybe she could join the local gym with childcare provided and that could give her something fun to do while you are away. Or you could arrange for babysitting the kids yourself for an hour or so a day so she could go do something she wants to do for herself - this would give her time to rejuvinate herself and give you some good bonding time with the kids. Also, make sure she makes friends somehow - get to know the other married couples with kids in your class - I'm sure there are other student spouses who would be interested in meeting people in their situation too. Getting her together with these people will make her feel less alone in her situation, plus getting the kids together with other kids will give them some entertainment so she doesn't feel like she's stressed out with entertaining them all day.

Make sure you acknowlege how much you appreciate all her support and how well she takes care of things at home. Little compliments like noticing she vaccuumed, pressed your favorite dress shirt, or bought your favorite cereal at the store will go a long way in showing her every day that you notice all the work she does.

Make dates as much as you can - include the kids if you don't have child care, but get out and do somethign fun. One of my classmates happily married with kids says no matter what, Friday night is a family night. They rent movies, go out for pizza, play putt putt golf, whatever - but no matter how tired he is or how much he's worried about Monday's exam, he keeps that committment to his family and himself and they really enjoy it.

The fact that you realize you need to acknowledge the problem and do something about it is a huge step. If you want to save your marriage, I think it can be done. The most important thing is to keep lines of communication open and make sure your wife is honest with you about what she wants and what you can do to make things better. I hope she can find a way to be more understanding of your schedule if you try to find ways to make sure she knows your relationship is tops.

 

[Chianti]

"I am surprised you would even be asking a question like that. I thought women loved to marry doctors, because of their high salaries and social status. A doctor can literally pick any woman he wants. "

You are forgetting that 90% of doctors are big DORKS. Most women don't want to marry a loser who has nothing going for him except his job. I'm in med school, and while I've made some great, lifelong friends, the vast majority of doctors are people who I could care less to associate with outside of the hospital.

 

[russellb]

Originally posted by Chianti
You are forgetting that 90% of doctors are big DORKS. Most women don't want to marry a loser who has nothing going for him except his job. I'm in med school, and while I've made some great, lifelong friends, the vast majority of doctors are people who I could care less to associate with outside of the hospital.

I gather that you're the cool guy amidst all of the geeks...🙄

 

[Digginit]

My $.02.....I'm a married soon-to-be-3rd year med student with a 6 y/o son. I don't know if I would have put the effort into my family that I have if I didn't have a child. What I've done, though, is mainly to leave the stress behind when I close the books. When I'm with my family, I'm with them and not focused on tomorrow's exam or whatever.... Only infrequently do I have to go a day without spending time with them at all, but when those days roll around, I think they're understanding. Also, I have no dreams of AOA or anything like that. I just try to stay in the top half of the class....my personal marker of excellence....lol.

Lindsey

 

[Trizi]

ArrogantSurgeon: You can't be serious. You deserve to be alone forever if you are. You act like doctors are friggin' gods or something! Doctors are only people. A woman should be honored to be made a doctor's wife? Were you raised in the 1950s or something? People like you make me want to throw up.

jjoeirv: What are you talking about when you say a woman would never leave a doctor? Doctors have the second highest divorce rate of any profession.


You guys need a little dose of something called reality.

 

[Azmedstudent]

Try reading "The Medical Marriage" by Wayne M. Sotile.
Good Luck. Remember, your wife and family are more important than any job you will ever have. Don't neglect school, but keep that in mind.

 

[sms921]

I think the posters who were talking about marrying a MD being the pinnacle were doing so jokingly. Among my non-medical female friends, MDs are seen as having alot of liabilities as far as dating/marrying and several of my friends have told me they actively avoid anyone in the health care field. The issues are lack of time, extreme financial stress for 10-15 years, high likelihood spouse or partner will need to move multiple times, perceived self-focus and immaturity of medical students/residents, etc. Also, so many people have a negative opinion of doctors generally nowadays. In line with this, I notice alot of single people in medical school/residency -- arguably more so than in other fields.

Anyway, for the original poster who is having marital difficulties, I would strongly suggest thinking very carefully about lifestyle when you choose a specialty and discussing with your wife what would be each of your vision's of an ideal life - - and thinking about that when you make choices for the future. If her ideal life is lots of free time, family time, support, etc. and you want to work 50-70 hours a week, there is going to be ongoing conflict. If you can say to her and mean it, training is bad but when I am done I am actively working to create the type of life we both want by going in to X field, working a reduced schedule, etc., I think this will make the training bearable.

Good luck.

 

[paramed2premed]

It appears that my marriage will not survive the pre-medical process; I have yet to even be admitted to a school! The level of anticipated stress and isolation was too much for her.

Clearly, I am in no position to offer advice.

It is somewhat odd, though, how some of my friends say stuff like "Well, you're still going to med school, right?" Like being an anxious, pale, and cloistered student is going to increase my sex appeal. 🙄

 

[Starflyr]

In the preclinical years, there is time. I am married with a 9 year old, and my husband also works.

IMO, there is NO excuse NOT to have time during years 1 and 2.

So waht if you dont get Honors? P = MD. That's the equation Ive lived by. Im not top of the class, but yanno what? Im in 3rd year. I was over and aboveboard with my DH before we married, and he doesnt like 3rd year, but he's dealing with it. (I get up at 4, leave at 4:45, come home at 6:30 and go to bed at 8. Not including call nights). Im trying really hard though. I still do things around the house - not a lot, but even little things help - scrub the mucky toilet, change the kitty litter, get dinner a couple of days (so what if it's KFC?). Stuff like that. When my daughter comes back from Gma and Gpa's, I will stay up until 9 to read bedtime story to her. Im also working hard to get at least 1 day off a week by splitting weekends.

 

[Zack90]

I'm also going to be starting my 2nd year and have a year-and-half old child. Admittedly, the fall of the first year was a bit stressful. But, a couple of things we did were: hire a babaysitter for two aftrnoons/early evening a week for three hours - well worth it - we can both do what we need to get done (study/work)without stress and I skip quite a few of my classes now. Also, we talked a lot about what's REALLY important and what's not and focused our efforst on those important things. Also, like another poster mentioned, I have no intentions of being AOA, I just want to be a competent physician, so for me, I do not study nearly as much as my other classmates, and have a personal, realistic goal of being in the 50th percentile or above for my class which I seem to meet somehow without too much worry.... I'd ask yourself, what are your goals? You can be good at a most of things, but you have to be well-balanced, and realize IMHO that you just might get NOT Honors on each of your tests! Hope this helps!

 

[irlandesa]

how is your schedule? if you get out of class sometime between 12-3 as many schools do, it is definitely a good idea to head home immediately so that you can spend some time with your kids. as others have said, your wife could use the time, if she wishes, to take a nap or work out or whatever she likes to do. Even if you get out of class later, it is probably better to head home immediately rather than studying in the library for several more hours. If you have to, go back to the library or wherever you study best for a few hours. If you get any mornings off, make a point of waking up, making breakfast for the family, and taking the kids to school. I'm not married, but am the child of a workaholic scientist father and mom who stayed at home and took care of absolutely everything on the home front for 8 years before going back to work part time. This caused enormous amounts of friction and bitterness between my parents over the years, and it's a miracle they didn't get divorced. I think if my dad had been more flexible and set aside a decent amount of specific time to spend time with us and help mom with things around the house, things would have been so much better.

One thing I've learned in med school is that 100% class attendance during the first 2 years is NOT going to be a reality unless dating, marrying, exercising, and sleeping are unimportant to you and you want to honor every single class. Yes, even at schools which require attendance at every lecture (LSU and Mercer) this is true. And Gauss, don't even think about attacking me for being a slacker, I (and most others on here) have more dedication and love for medicine than you can imagine. It is your decision to determine which classes to attend and which classes you could afford to skip to spend more time with your family. Obviously, don't skip mandatory classes like PBL, some small groups, and ANY clinical site work or Physical Diagnosis course.

 

[26339]

Okay, if doctors have the 2nd highest divorce rate, who's number one? And what's number 3, 4, 5, and so on...?

 

[Daniel Sage]

What I'm wondering is this:

If one makes certain academic compromises to spend time with his/her significant other (not shooting for AOA, top of class, etc.), is one not reducing the chance of scoring a residency in a field which would allow them to have great pay and decent hours (optho, derm, etc.) to spend time with the family later on down the line?

 

[KG]

Hang in there, "Dr. and Mrs. Hope!" Your marriage (and kids) are too precious to lose without a fight. I'm a non-trad starting med school this fall. I was a "housewife" for seven years before going back to school for a bachelor's in chemistry in preparation for applying. My husband is extremely supportive, but I basically went from "always home" to "almost-never home". He had a problem with that, so I try to study more at home now. The p-chem-organic III-analytic chem-writing course-research-work semester was the worst, but even then I decided to take Friday nights and Sat. am off for hanging out with my hubby, and that worked well. Even when I wasn't around much during the week, he knew he could look forward to those times. I just make myself put the books aside and try not to even think about school, and it is refreshing, and I think I study better when I go back to it.

We also talked to a counselor for several years (years ago) when we had major communication problems, and I'm not ashamed of it-it was worth it, and we're still married. Maybe the student affairs office could recommend someone to help with identifying expectations and ways to meet them.

Also, this may seem overly simple, but what three specific things would your wife like to see? (15 minutes with each child each night? Dinner together as a family? Help putting the kids to bed? "Date night" once a month?) Most couples that work through the rough spots are really glad they did, down the road. I know we are! God bless!

 

[trauma_junky]

I'm married with a 13month old, going to grad school full time, applying to med school, and working nights 7p-7a 3 nights a week. Now from what I've experienced, it always seems the husband takes it easier when the wife is in school than the other way around, but that is life. If you want it, you'll make the changes and sacrifices to keep your dream and your marriage. Less sleep sounds better than alimony and child support.

 

[yipeee]

Well, I have to be honest my relationship didn't make through medical school. No matter how hard I tried to spend time with my ex, it was never the right time or something we could agree on. In addition, we ended up arguing ALL of the time.

I have tried to analyze what went wrong several times. Talking about it with friends that have gone through the same experience, has shown us that there seems to be a common factor and that is Lack of RESPECT. By this I mean name calling, belittling, insulting etc... Once you cross this line it is very difficult to recover from it.

 

[drhope31]

Well, I thank you all for your suggestions and I am hoping I get a chance to implement some of them. As of now, we are separated because she needs time to think. I thought the time away is what got me in this mess. If one of you female types could explain your fellow sister's action I would appreciate it.

One year down, 3 to go!

 

[yipeee]

I am sorry for what you are going through. I went through the a vey similar situation.

Being that I am female, and although some on this post would say that men take it better when women are away I would disagree. I just think it is an individuals personality. He could not stand the fact that I "was never there anymore". As time went on we became more distant. I felt like if I was living with a total stranger. I mainly thought that it was all my fault and that studying was destroying my relationship. Eventually I found out, through my own investigating, that he was cheating on me. This was the most difficult part, I felt so betrayed. But thanks to the support I had from friends/colleagues I was able to move on while still focusing at school.

Well, some people just want a lot of attention. They cannot handle time alone or find a way to keep themselves busy. If she cannot see that this is not only for your future but also for hers and your children then you should really consider that she was not meant for you. Although I know nobody wants the alternative.

 

[GeddyLee]

Drhope31,
If you're only now in your second year and don't have any time for you family then look out....you're on you way to real trouble!
It's a matter of priorities, you don't HAVE to study all the time. Take several hours out of you day to be with your family! Believe me, you will not regret it.

Geddy

 

[nirvana23]

Originally posted by mililaniguy
Okay, if doctors have the 2nd highest divorce rate, who's number one? And what's number 3, 4, 5, and so on...?

I don't know about 3, 4, 5, and so on, but I think number one are lawyers. I don't know why, but I think it has to do with the lack of family values (or values in general) 😉

 

[jennie 21]

DrHope, I sympathize with you and your wife about the stress that lack of time together can put on a relationship. It sounds like you're confused because all this time she's been complaining about your lack of time for her, and now she wants time alone to think. I can see why that's confusing, but maybe I can explain, from a female point of view. I don't know your wife, so I don't know if this is right, but in addition to wanting time alone to think about the relationship and whether she can do this (stay in the marriage), I think she might be testing to see if you still care and if you will come after her. If you take her request for "space" at face value and don't pursue her and try to win her back, she will conclude that you don't care about her. She is feeling hurt and rejected because she feels your lack of time for her means you don't care, and that is why she is pulling away. I don't think she really wants you to leave her alone, but probably wants you to show her that you love her by trying to get her back. Now, if she's made it very clear that she really DOES want to be left alone you've got to respect that. You know your wife; so you are in the best position to know if my advice makes sense or if it really would be better to leave her alone and let her think. Good luck. I hope you can work things out.

 

[Smoke This]

Originally posted by jennie 21
DrHope, I sympathize with you and your wife about the stress that lack of time together can put on a relationship. It sounds like you're confused because all this time she's been complaining about your lack of time for her, and now she wants time alone to think. I can see why that's confusing, but maybe I can explain, from a female point of view. I don't know your wife, so I don't know if this is right, but in addition to wanting time alone to think about the relationship and whether she can do this (stay in the marriage), I think she might be testing to see if you still care and if you will come after her. If you take her request for "space" at face value and don't pursue her and try to win her back, she will conclude that you don't care about her. She is feeling hurt and rejected because she feels your lack of time for her means you don't care, and that is why she is pulling away. I don't think she really wants you to leave her alone, but probably wants you to show her that you love her by trying to get her back. Now, if she's made it very clear that she really DOES want to be left alone you've got to respect that. You know your wife; so you are in the best position to know if my advice makes sense or if it really would be better to leave her alone and let her think. Good luck. I hope you can work things out.

Word to that. Go after her, man. Good luck.

 

[uncwalley]

I've only been through first year as well, but my wife still tells me she loves me and doesn't complain about any time issues. I'm also doing pretty well in school, so you can shoot for AOA and still have a good marriage. Going into school, I made the plan to make school a job like any other grown up would have if not in school. I would go in early and be done studying before the wife got home from work. That worked most of the time, so she could handle the times when tests were getting near and I needed to take some extra time. No matter what, even with a test on Monday, I took Sunday off. I found that that didn't hurt my grades much if at all and it gave me time to do things with my wife that we couldn't do on a weeknight. Email and the telephone are two great inventions. Use them. Little notes in your inbox from others besides spam senders are fun. Also, unless class is mandatory, it isn't necessary to go to all of them. I went to maybe 25% of them. If you get notes in your syllabus, chances are pretty good that those are things you need to know. If you can get old tests, you really know what you need to know. Either way, your marriage is way more important than med school. If I was in a similar situation and I thought that things were reparable, I would ask the school for a year off. Lifes plenty long enough. One more year postponement isn't a big deal.

 

[southcom]

This is a good thread, I like the ideas that most people have gave, and to the people that think the women should be honored, this is completly wrong, women do not care as much about social status and money as men think they do, so let me get to my situation and ask people's advice. My gf is pushing to get marrie in 2 years I'm starting med school in the fall, so the 2 years will be after I'm finished with my classes and after she graduated rom undergrad. So is this a good idea, or should I postpone it till I'm completly finished with school? she is kind of needed with time, but she will be working a teacher in 2 years so that will help, please give me some advice

 

[smedly2]

drhope,
Maybe your wife is jealous. While you are pursuing your dream hers have been put on hold to take care of your kid(s). I am married but don't have kids yet. All my friends have children and they say that having kids completely changes the mom while the dad can continue his life as it was before kids. I guess this could lead to some resentment.
Though, I don't have kids, I have been married for almost 5 years.
I just finished my 1st yr and managed to get honors in all but 1 class. I ALWAYS study at home. When its break time, snack time or whatever time I spend it with my hubby. Date time is saved for the night after exams. I think enough time with him kept my conscious free of guilt so I'd studied more efficiently. This, and the fact that he does the laundry, is why I did well.

South, you shouldn't have to pushed to get married. wait until you're ready.

 

[yipeee]

she has countless hours to sit at home and get angry, jealous, and frustrated. she needs to get out of the house, period! my mother stayed at home for a long time taking care of my younger siblings and she was miserable. while at home the house became her prison. i finally convinced her to pursue her dream of having her own school. and now she runs her own daycare business. she is a COMPLETELY different person.

maybe your wife has ambitions of her own. perhaps, she can take some courses at a local CC. she will also make some friends there.

i mean, seriously, how many other husbands have to work 2 jobs what do their wives do?

 

[funkless]

Originally posted by southcom
My gf is pushing to get marrie in 2 years I'm starting med school in the fall, ...she is kind of needed with time, but she will be working a teacher in 2 years so that will help, please give me some advice

I can't stress this enough: LIVE TOGETHER FIRST! Forget any religious or social qualms, if you have them. It's so important to make sure you're not making a mistake. Invest a year as roommates. If it works out with you in school, then great. If not, that's too bad, but at least there are no lawyers involved.

I'm a newlywed, applying now, so I've had the same concerns. Luckily, my wife is very low-maintenance and very patient. (She also stays very busy, she's a veterinarian.)

Good luck. Be slow and cautious when you're making permanent decisions. Really consider a trial period. Thank me later.

--Funkless

 

[thackl]

It just depends on the person. My brother went through med school married with a house full of kids. His wife, though jealous sometimes, is pretty low maintenance. Mine wants me around all the time and then just complains for the sake of complaining (much higher maintenance). I'll be starting next year and I'm not sure how things are going to go. As for my wife, she is a troubled, but good person. I can (usually) stand to be with her and I could certainly stand to be without her. However, I could not stand to be without my kids, so I work hard to keep it together.

I have been a straight "A" student for a long time and I am trying to prepare myself to give it up for the family 🙁 My brother, with the low maint. wife, even said this was necessary for him to have family time (but he still got in to anesthesia )

Keep trying. I hope it works out.

 

[LukeWhite]

Originally posted by funkless
I can't stress this enough: LIVE TOGETHER FIRST! Forget any religious or social qualms, if you have them. It's so important to make sure you're not making a mistake. --Funkless

Most every study on the matter shows that those who live together first have a higher incidence of divorce, so I'm not so sure that's good advice given the nature of the thread.

 

[uncwalley]

Good point Luke. Those that live together often don't have the commitment it can take to stay married. That is why they live together first; they want an easy out if things don't go well. And how does one go about forgetting about religious qualms. If religion is very important to a person, then it is as much a part of that person as their race or sexual orientation. Don't sell out because is seems convenient to live together first. You may find that it only backfires. Living together before marriage takes a lot of the fire away when you do get married. You've already had all those firsts that would have been held for marriage. Waiting to live together starts the marriage with the principle that there is no getting out. That mind set keeps a whole lot of marriages together.
Now that I've said that, I do know several people who lived together before they got married and they seem to have great relationships. It works for some, not for others.

 

[thackl]

I've read that pre-arranged/planned marriages have the lowest (by far) divorce rates. Go figure...........

 

[mudbug]

Originally posted by uncwalley
That is why they live together first; they want an easy out if things don't go well.

Well, yeah! As opposed to what? Those people who want the process of getting out to be really really painful and difficult if things don't go well?

Originally posted by uncwalley
Waiting to live together starts the marriage with the principle that there is no getting out.

Wait, is that supposed to be a good thing, or a bad thing? Because just reading that sentence makes me feel a constricting sensation throughout my ribcage.

Originally posted by uncwalley
That mind set keeps a whole lot of marriages together.

Many of which are miserable and benefit no one.


🙂 🙂 🙂

 

[uncwalley]

The point that I was trying to make is that living together before getting married may say something about your commitment level. Nobody wants split-ups to be difficult, but when most people get married, they vow that there won't be a split-up. This requires complete commitment, which cohabitation doesn't demonstrate in a person. Saying that you will not give up on a marriage is not saying you desire to be miserable if you and your spouse don't get along, it says that you desire to work on the problems that keep you from getting along. Most of the time, those problems aren't big things, but many are too selfish to accept the inconveniences that come with the joys of marriage. And finally, I've got no numbers or research that says that those who refuse to get a divorce despite problems are more often miserable or not, but my guess is that most of them work out their issues and go on to have happy marriages. There are limits. If my wife starts making a habit of hitting me with hard objects or sleeping with other guys, I'm probably going to pick up my things and move on. However, most problems are fixable if someone wants to fix them.

 

[mudbug]

Originally posted by uncwalley
The point that I was trying to make is that living together before getting married may say something about your commitment level. Nobody wants split-ups to be difficult, but when most people get married, they vow that there won't be a split-up. This requires complete commitment, which cohabitation doesn't demonstrate in a person. Saying that you will not give up on a marriage is not saying you desire to be miserable if you and your spouse don't get along, it says that you desire to work on the problems that keep you from getting along. Most of the time, those problems aren't big things, but many are too selfish to accept the inconveniences that come with the joys of marriage. And finally, I've got no numbers or research that says that those who refuse to get a divorce despite problems are more often miserable or not, but my guess is that most of them work out their issues and go on to have happy marriages. There are limits. If my wife starts making a habit of hitting me with hard objects or sleeping with other guys, I'm probably going to pick up my things and move on. However, most problems are fixable if someone wants to fix them.

I know. I'm just giving you a hard time--I hope I didn't upset you. I don't agree with everything you're saying about cohabitating vs. marriage, but I understand that you are saying it with good intentions. Sorry for being a punk. 😎

 

[drhope31]

Well, I really appreciate all the attention that everyone has put into this thread. To update, I'm separated and waiting to see. That sucks bad. But it could be worse, atleast I'm on life support.
To answer a few of the comments that has been raised, the reason why I was overwhelmed was because I haven't been in school, any school for the previous 3 years. As everyone on this forum can attest, med school starts out at 150mph on the first day. It has taken some time to adjust. On top of that, there are children involved and a 1 hour each way commute to deal with. That's why I was overwhelmed, that's why I wasn't at home as much as I needed to be. (Arrangements are being made to help with the commute issue)
A new problem that has surfaced is, how can I start med school (2nd year) with being in limbo about whether I'm married or not. Despite some of the earlier comments made, I love my wife and don't want to start over regardless to how plentiful the girls may be (if that is true at all). My family is #1, school 2nd. I will act accordingly if given the chance. One of the posters suggested taking a year off. I don't want to wait out a year, I'm already past the class average age and don't want to make this last any longer than it already is. And what would I do for the year. Be bored to death and there could be resentment on my part towards my wife. I just don't see any good coming from it.
Your comments are awesome and I am paying attention to them so keep them coming.

By the way, my two cents on the living together before marriage issue. Either commit or don't commit.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by drhope31
My family is #1, school 2nd.One of the posters suggested taking a year off. I don't want to wait out a year, I'm already past the class average age and don't want to make this last any longer than it already is.

IF the first statement is really true then you've contradicted yourself. I 'm a 36 year old future MD/PhD student that is also divorced with one child ( My 1st marriage didn't make past grad school). If taking a year off to get your marriage back on track is what you need to do, then do it. A happy mariage is about sacrifice and compromise and the rules don't change just because you attend medical school. You're probably not as old as I am but even if you are, being a year older than you would normally have been when you graduate seems a small price to pay to save your marriage.

 

[thackl]

My brother will be 44 when he gets out of residency/fellowship. Save your relationship if you truly deem it worth saving (some aren't 🙁 )

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by sms921
Among my non-medical female friends, MDs are seen as having alot of liabilities among them is the
perceived self-focus of medical students/residents, etc.

This is a big one. Med students and new doctors have spent so much time trying to make themselves over and fill themselves with information it is almost narcissistic.

 

[raspberry swirl]

i'm a firm believer in living together before marriage. i know the stats are against it, but i don't care. i think that if those people who cohabitated, married, and then got divorced would have divorced regardless of their cohabitation. i can't imagine marrying someone without having lived witht them-- usually its the little things that fester and grow that disrupt marriages later on. get those issues out of the way before you say I do. to the guy whose gf was pressuring him about marriage-- thats a good reason not to marry her, and this is advice coming from a female.

another bit of advice for the guy who is separated-- i haven't really got anything new to say, but i'll chime in here anyway--relationships are impossible no matter what the specifics. my boyfriend and i each go/will be going to medical school-- 9 hours apart. chances are i won't see him til xmas, if then. how much does that suck? if you believe in death do us part, get down on your hands and knees and tell that woman you will do whatever she wants. at the same time, there are limits. you are a med student. if she can't accept that the next 4-6 years, possibly more, of your life are going to be difficult, then thats her problem-- not yours. sit her down in front of the computer, and lether read this thread. then maybe she'll realize that its not just the world against her-- tons of people go through the same thing, and there are ways to make it work.

 

[jennie 21]

As far as living together goes, I just read in USA Today that couples who lived together with the intention to marry and who had not previously cohabited with anybody else, had the exact same divorce rate as couples who did not live together before marriage. However, people who had cohabitated serially with multiple partners and/or lived together without the intention to marry did have a higher divorce rate. So, living together does not necessarily mean a higher risk of divorce; it depends on the circumstances involved. This is common sense--an engaged couple who moves in together prior to the wedding is quite different than a couple that moves in together after dating a few months with no intention to marry. It seems likely that people who have cohabitated and broke up with multiple partners prior to marriage would also be more willing to leave a marriage if things weren't working out (and what marriage doesn't go through periods like that?). The editorial also pointed out that today, only 1/3 of cohabitations lead to marriage, and that multiple cohabitations are more common than they used to be, which would be predicted to have a negative effect on marital stability.

Just thought that was interesting info to add to the debate. These days, more and more people are living together prior to marriage, so it's nice to see that living together doesn't necessarily mean a higher liklihood of divorce.

 

[mudbug]

Well written, jennie 21.

 

[yipeee]

I couldn't agree more. I guess it is better to find out early than having to go through a NASTY divorce and custody battle which can go on for several years.

In addition, those who are divorced and remarry have a higher divorce rate the second time around. 3rd marriages even higher. Just wanted to add that.