Away rotation timing

[DCDAWG]

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Hi all,
I'm scheduled to do my away rotation in October of 4th year. I'll do em at my home school in July then an elective then September step 2 before my away. Is October too late for my way? This means I am depending on getting my 2 lors during my 1 mth home rotation, I imagine October is too late for any lor from the away to make a difference.
Thanks!

 

[RxnMan]

With regards to 4th year scheduling, take a look at the SAEM student resource website (link in my sig). They have a generalized schedule there describing when to work on your ERAS, when to submit, when interviews are offered, and when interviews happen.

 

[DCDAWG]

Thanks for the reply. I agree the saem web site can be very useful, but I don't think it has an answer to my question. I was more looking for examples from people about when they did their aways and if people think October may be too late. Also, how people feel about having to obtain 2 lors out of a 1 month home em rotation this July. Make sense?

 

[alphaholic06]

October may be too late. It will be extremely difficult to get a letter in before most program application deadlines in Nov.

 

[RxnMan]

Thanks for the reply. I agree the saem web site can be very useful, but I don't think it has an answer to my question. I was more looking for examples from people about when they did their aways and if people think October may be too late. Also, how people feel about having to obtain 2 lors out of a 1 month home em rotation this July. Make sense?

My away rotation is scheduled for October, and for the required 2 SLORs, I will be getting both of them during my one-month home EM rotation.

 

[drchekhov]

Thanks for the reply. I agree the saem web site can be very useful, but I don't think it has an answer to my question. I was more looking for examples from people about when they did their aways and if people think October may be too late. Also, how people feel about having to obtain 2 lors out of a 1 month home em rotation this July. Make sense?

It's not ideal, but definitely do-able. I finished an away October 23rd of this year, and that place submitted my SLOR by the middle of the following week; it was posted to ERAS by my school by November 1st.

I would say the keys to making this work are:
1. Meet with whomever will be writing the SLOR the first week of the rotation. S/he will be ready to write you a letter—asking them early will just gear them up to accomplish it quickly. (As an added benefit, this will give you the chance to wow him/her one-on-one early in the rotation.)
2. Have ALL your other letters in at the time you submit your app. I had a SLOR from my home department and 2 LOR's from IM docs at that time, added the second SLOR at the start of November, and it didn't hurt me in the slightest.

Good luck.

 

[deleted77919]

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[qwerty1234]

I think you'll be ok. Obviously, try to get that 2nd slor rolling using the advice above.

A lot of places will invite you for an interview before both slors are in. Just try to have the rest of your app complete and try to make sure your other letters (from non EM faculty) are in b/c some places won't make a decision until at least 2 of your letters (slors or not) are there.

 

[zenoid]

Many places gave me interviews before my 3rd LOR (2nd SLOR). Some waited until Nov 1st.....I was in the same place except I have no home program and did two aways. I risked it and waited for a SLOR from my October away. It resulted in a great letter that many interviewers commented on. It was a bit stressful, but I think it paid off.

Good Luck!

 

[DCDAWG]

How feasible is it to get 2 lors from home school in July and then not worry about getting one from my away? Does that defeat a lot of purpose of doing an away rotation? I was kind of thinking of an away as a way to get an in at that place and learn about that program when I made my 4th year schedule. But, I'm kind of regretting that now. Also, when dud y'all do your aways? It seems many places won't even take outside students in July and august, making October not necessarily that late.

 

[qwerty1234]

At some programs getting 2 slors is not possible

At some others, it is very hard. They write a summary SLOR from all of your evals and say you can ask for an attending who you had a particularly good interaction with to provide specific comments for the SLOR. They say you CAN ask for a extra SLOR from a single faculty (in addition to the summary SLOR) IF it can provide something beyond the summary SLOR with personal comments. I imagine this would be very hard to ask for.

And at others, I imagine it would be easy. At your institution you might have someone you've interacted with during the preclinical years or done a research proj with write you an extra one.

Either way, you'll still need to get one from your away rotation. It can be one of the best parts of your application and proves you can do well in multiple environments. People will wonder what happened if you dont get one.

 

[deleted77919]

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[DCDAWG]

Thanks for the replies. I guess when first planning this I didnt realize the main intent of away rotations.
I may have a solution- I am scheduled for an elective in August. I can cancel that and do an away ultrasound/wilderness/toxicology elective during this month and look to get an LOR then. I figure this would at least take some pressure off in October because Id have all my LORs theoretically in when my application is complete in September.
Then I guess I would still get an LOR from the away in October, but at least Id have my two EM ones in by then. Also, if I were not to get one on the Oct rotation, would programs even know that about it? It seems theyd really just see that I got one from my home and one from my away (the elective in August)?

Thanks a lot. This helps a lot, especially since I cant meet with my match advisor to discuss until next week.

 

[deleted77919]

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[roja]

Get the SLOR from your october rotation. No, it might not be there by nov1, but it iwll be in your file when you interview. Not having one does raise eyebrows, fair or not.

 

[RxnMan]

My away rotation is scheduled for October, and for the required 2 SLORs, I will be getting both of them during my one-month home EM rotation.

Please allow myself to clarify...myself. I intend to get a SLOR from my away. I'm going to get two SLORs from my home program so that my application is complete as soon as possible (for 3 SLORs total). I didn't want to hold up my ERAS just for the away SLOR, but I will add it when it becomes available.

 

[drchekhov]

Please allow myself to clarify...myself. I intend to get a SLOR from my away. I'm going to get two SLORs from my home program so that my application is complete as soon as possible (for 3 SLORs total). I didn't want to hold up my ERAS just for the away SLOR, but I will add it when it becomes available.

RxnMan, I don't think you should feel pressured to get two SLORs from your home rotation; I think one is sufficient to an average applicant's file into the "to review" stack. Roja can speak with the most credibility on this matter, but my impression is that most programs require ERAS, one SLOR, NBME grades, and a transcript to be submitted before they'll review your application. (Programs that wait for MSPE before sending out invitations notwithstanding.) However, they definitely expect to have that second SLOR in hand by your interview date, so as to help them gain a full picture of you as an applicant.

On the other hand, for a weak applicant, I could see how having two strong SLORs in hand early might really buff up one's application and garner more early interviews. (Not that I think that will be an issue with you, RxnMan. My impression is that you're going to be in the superstar category. 😉 ) But I don't doubt that timing one's SLORs should depend in part on the strength of one's total application.

To the OP, if you feel the need to do the Wilderness or Ultrasound elective earlier in the year and it's that or nothing, go for it. But my impression is that programs prefer a SLOR from general ED month over one from an EM-subspecialty month. So still plan on doing that away.

 

[RxnMan]

RxnMan, I don't think you should feel pressured to get two SLORs from your home rotation; I think one is sufficient to an average applicant's file into the "to review" stack...

I have a LOR (not a SLOR) from an ED rotation I did in 3rd year. If I schedule most of my MS4 ED rotation shifts with that attending and one other person, I should be able to get 2 SLORs relatively painlessly (one an "update", one new). And for my own peace of mind I'd like to be as complete as early as possible.

...My impression is that you're going to be in the superstar category...

We shall see.

 

[InterestedinEM]

Can you get a SLOR from any EM faculty or does it have to be a residency director?

 

[bravotwozero]

A strong SLOR from a residency director would be ideal, but you can also get one from any EM attending.

 

[Disinence2]

I am in nearly the same situation as the OP. Thanks for asking this question!

Planning on getting 1-2 SLOR's from my home EM rotation in August. I will hopefully have 2 strong letters from a Ped's and an IM doc as well. Then an addition letter from my away in October. Next year is going to be fun...

 

[roja]

In general, the SLOR's from EM faculty are most important. You should review the slor (available on cord website) to see the type of information that is gathered. If you only work a few shifts with someone (and this isn't a composite rotational letter) than it will have less weight.

Ideally, you want one SLOR from each rotation (multiple letters from one institution has less weight) and then one more from something like surgery, IM or OB.

Keep in mind, you want to ask letter writers if they are comfortable writing an exceptional/really strong/excellent LOR. You don't want mediocre letters in your file if possible.

If you have done research, or worked with an EM faculty on something else (qa, disaster, etc) this can be a good letter to add in.

 

[DCDAWG]

Thanks for all the replies. This helps a lot.
What percentage of students would you all estimate end up matching at a place they did their away? It seems like a good number if students I've spoken to end up going there.