I apologize if this question seems odd. I am wondering if I should do away rotations if people skills are not the strongest part of my application? I'm asking this because away rotations are meant as opportunities to impress a future program in person, but there is the possibility that the program could be "un-impressed." For an applicant with average or slightly below average people skills, is it better to not do away rotations instead? Thanks for your answers.
Away rotation
- Thread starter echod
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Naturally it is possible that an away could guarantee you won't match at that institution if everyone hates you. Now if you are just somewhat of an introvert but work hard and are a decent person I think you'll be okay. If you are arrogant and narcissistic you may not want to rotate at a place you actually want to train at. However, a lot of interviews asked about my away rotations so I got the impression if you didn't do any that it might raise questions.
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Do away electives! I am not quite sure what you mean by "people skills" - most traits falling under this rubric are easily learned (like being polite and not an ass, pulling your weight, not talking too much), so learn them - whether you go to rad onc or not. And work hard during your rotations. I wholeheartedly agree with hot sauce that by doing an away you not only try to endear yourself to the "away" programs - you also broadcast your dedication to the field. I don't think that only doing one rad onc rotation is going to cut it.
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At my school, we are only allowed to do two rotations in any given specialty. I'm guessing that gives me only one away rotation (along with one rad-onc rotation at my school).
Will that be 'enough' or should I try to petition for another away rotation?
Will that be 'enough' or should I try to petition for another away rotation?
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Yes, I definitely agree that doing away rotations is key. It not only gives you a chance to get to know a program(s) in depth and gives them a better chance to get to know you, but it also provides perspective. I did a home rotation plus 2 aways and I really enjoyed all of the experiences. All of these programs were so different from one another, and when it came times to figure out what type of program I wanted for myself (i.e. rank list), I had a broader perspective. Plus, on nearly all of my interviews, I was asked to compare/contrast the programs I had rotated at and having had multiple, varying experiences helped. As for only being able to do 2 rotations in one field, I would personally check with your Office of Stud Affairs or Registrar and find out if you could do an extra away rotation. Just my 2 cents.
Aways are a must for mutliple reasons:
1) If it is a mid level program they will almost always intreview you and if it is out of your reach and you impress you might get an invitation from program that never would have consider you
2) I heared from 2 program directors that when they rank they look at the people that whom rotated at the department differently
3) Out of state aways prove that you are willing to leave your town or state and come to a program. Many mid level programs when they intreview keep that in mind and on intreviews you will be asked why did you apply here or are you willing to come here, and if you have not done aways outside your state you will not be convincing to them
4) aways can open regions for you, and could get you 2 or 3 intreviews or even more in a region you have no ties to
5) aways make you see more and learn more, so you can impress more at intreviews
6) Finally we love this and are commited to it that we kill our selves to impress in aways, and by doing so we learn a lot.
Hope that helps
1) If it is a mid level program they will almost always intreview you and if it is out of your reach and you impress you might get an invitation from program that never would have consider you
2) I heared from 2 program directors that when they rank they look at the people that whom rotated at the department differently
3) Out of state aways prove that you are willing to leave your town or state and come to a program. Many mid level programs when they intreview keep that in mind and on intreviews you will be asked why did you apply here or are you willing to come here, and if you have not done aways outside your state you will not be convincing to them
4) aways can open regions for you, and could get you 2 or 3 intreviews or even more in a region you have no ties to
5) aways make you see more and learn more, so you can impress more at intreviews
6) Finally we love this and are commited to it that we kill our selves to impress in aways, and by doing so we learn a lot.
Hope that helps
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For what its worth, there is no simple answer to this questions. There are program directors that have strong feelings on both sides of this issue. Our PD is a very big name in the field and they don't influence him or his department in the decision making process in any way except that it can help with regional bias. Other PDs seem to view them more favorably. Having gone through the process and watched a couple rounds of candidates do it my impressions are:
1) They generally do NOT seem help people get interviews into top programs that they wouldn't otherwise. There are always exceptions and some programs are better than others, like Yale. But in general, MGH, Penn, Memorial, not so much. They have tons of aways and limited interview spots. Midlevels are a different story though. They are very useful for getting interviews at mid level programs.
2) There is regional bias and they can be very helpful if you are determined to be in a particular region that you have no obvious affiliation with.
3) You can learn a lot on them but Im unconvinced that information really allows you to impress anyone that frequently on the interview trail. As a student you don't really know that much (even the studs) about rad onc. PDs and departments are looking for people with potential and they use CVs for that. Virtually all the interviews are for is getting to know you as a person and if you are a good fit for them. Away rotations can be a good learning opportunity, but that is more for your own enjoyment and personal development, don't realistically expect that little extra knowledge to give you and advantage getting in that often.
4) Some people say it shows dedication and interest in the field. Again, maybe maybe not. Our PD laughs at that statement and warns that is a dangerous game. In his mind it could also make competing programs think you are too interested in a different program and could hurt you (sounds a little out there to me, but he has said it on more than one occasion). Strong applicants do just fine without them. I did zero and got >12 interviews including 5 of the top 10 programs when I went through. I was far from alone in that category.
Putting it all together my two cents would be there is no right answer for everyone. I think they have great educational value and can be fun but I am not convinced that they really help people match as much as other users might think. I doubt they ever hurt anyone but unless you know there is a region or program you are dying to get into, the only reason to do them is if you really want to. The other stellar reason to do one is if you are unsure if the field is right for you. Finally, you can get a feel for the atmosphere of different programs which can be useful, but there are 80ish programs and at most you will see 3. If you know this is the field for you and have compelling social or financial reasons that make it impractical don't kill yourself to do them. Just my thoughts.
1) They generally do NOT seem help people get interviews into top programs that they wouldn't otherwise. There are always exceptions and some programs are better than others, like Yale. But in general, MGH, Penn, Memorial, not so much. They have tons of aways and limited interview spots. Midlevels are a different story though. They are very useful for getting interviews at mid level programs.
2) There is regional bias and they can be very helpful if you are determined to be in a particular region that you have no obvious affiliation with.
3) You can learn a lot on them but Im unconvinced that information really allows you to impress anyone that frequently on the interview trail. As a student you don't really know that much (even the studs) about rad onc. PDs and departments are looking for people with potential and they use CVs for that. Virtually all the interviews are for is getting to know you as a person and if you are a good fit for them. Away rotations can be a good learning opportunity, but that is more for your own enjoyment and personal development, don't realistically expect that little extra knowledge to give you and advantage getting in that often.
4) Some people say it shows dedication and interest in the field. Again, maybe maybe not. Our PD laughs at that statement and warns that is a dangerous game. In his mind it could also make competing programs think you are too interested in a different program and could hurt you (sounds a little out there to me, but he has said it on more than one occasion). Strong applicants do just fine without them. I did zero and got >12 interviews including 5 of the top 10 programs when I went through. I was far from alone in that category.
Putting it all together my two cents would be there is no right answer for everyone. I think they have great educational value and can be fun but I am not convinced that they really help people match as much as other users might think. I doubt they ever hurt anyone but unless you know there is a region or program you are dying to get into, the only reason to do them is if you really want to. The other stellar reason to do one is if you are unsure if the field is right for you. Finally, you can get a feel for the atmosphere of different programs which can be useful, but there are 80ish programs and at most you will see 3. If you know this is the field for you and have compelling social or financial reasons that make it impractical don't kill yourself to do them. Just my thoughts.
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Oh yea, almost forgot another important piece of information. If your home program does not have a rad onc department or it only has a small one that is not nationally recognized, then an away rotation really is not very optional. Exposure to good practice is a must to get in. You don't have to see Sloan or Penn but midlevel or better is a good idea.
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i would look at your evaluations from your clinical rotations and see if the comments are usually positive or negative. that gives you a sense of how residents and attendings might view you. i am not very outgoing or sociable myself, but i can work hard and usually get good feedback. i ended up matching where i rotated. just my two cents.
