Away Rotations: Kiss of death for middle of the pack?

[stiffany]

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So I was reading Iseron's tomb on getting into residency last night and one of the things that I stumbled upon was his section on away rotations. Iseron asserts that "middle of the pack" students can actually do more harm than good if they do any away rotation. Is there any validity to this if one works (as usual) hard during the rotation? I think I'm middle of the pack for EM and don't want to "ruin" my chances at programs I'm really interested in (particularly due to proximity to family), but I'm not sure of how else to get noticed since they're outside of my region.

 

[Apollyon]

So I was reading Iseron's tomb on getting into residency last night and one of the things that I stumbled upon was his section on away rotations. Iseron asserts that "middle of the pack" students can actually do more harm than good if they do any away rotation. Is there any validity to this if one works (as usual) hard during the rotation? I think I'm middle of the pack for EM and don't want to "ruin" my chances at programs I'm really interested in (particularly due to proximity to family), but I'm not sure of how else to get noticed since they're outside of my region.

Did you mean "tome"? As far as I know, he's still alive.

 

[WilcoWorld]

I think the aforementioned tome is crap, but it may have been misinterpreted in this case.

If you are middle of the pack on paper but can really do a great job with actual patients, then an away rotation may be your best bet. Now if you're AOA, but people tend to find you annoying, then an away rotation can really hurt you.

 

[stiffany]

As far as I know, he's still alive.

That's really funny. And yes, I meant tome.

 

[gutonc]

Did you mean "tome"? As far as I know, he's still alive.

If he was dead though, maybe people would stop reading this piece of crap book he keeps "updating."

To the OP...

1. Put Iserson's in the trash, right now. Seriously. Then go punch whoever told you to buy it in the face, even (actually, especially) if it was your Dean...that person must learn and be punished.

2. While there are as many opinions about the relative utility of away rotations as there are people on SDN, I tend to agree with WilcoWorld. If you are mediocre on paper but awesome in person, it may be worth a shot. If you are awesome on paper but such and enormous D-bag that even your parents want to punch you every time you open your mouth, best to let your scores talk for you and hope for the best on interview day.

 

[pseudoknot]

I think part of the problem with away rotations is that nearly everyone thinks they are good with patients, but there's more to it than that. People on SDN always talk about just going out and rocking an away (or "crushing step 2" after a miserable step 1 score). The reality is that if your clinical grades suck, they will probably continue to do so.

 

[anonymousEM]

Personally, if I have to choose between 2 similar candidates on paper, I'm going to choose the known quantity. I want a resident who is teachable and hardworking and doesn't have weird social skills...sometimes all of those things can be hard to screen for on an interview. I can teach you EM but I can't necessarily make you want to be a good colleague.

 

[roja]

Personally, if I have to choose between 2 similar candidates on paper, I'm going to choose the known quantity. I want a resident who is teachable and hardworking and doesn't have weird social skills...sometimes all of those things can be hard to screen for on an interview. I can teach you EM but I can't necessarily make you want to be a good colleague.

ditto

 

[Tiger26]

Personally, if I have to choose between 2 similar candidates on paper, I'm going to choose the known quantity. I want a resident who is teachable and hardworking and doesn't have weird social skills...sometimes all of those things can be hard to screen for on an interview. I can teach you EM but I can't necessarily make you want to be a good colleague.

True--however, if you're anything less than stellar, I think an away can hurt an application. Sure it can show interest in a particular region or program.

Still, my stance is somewhat contrarian in that being somewhere for a month maximizes the amount of time available to say or do something that makes you look foolish or offends somebody in even the most meaningless way that matters come interview time. Think about the fact that you're in a brand new situation with a new EMR, new orders systems, new names on consulting services, etc. It sets you up to fail when you're only there for a month.

My stance is that if you want to go to a particular region, rotate at a program around the area but not at the one you're in love with. You can screen your letter writers to get a good one or two. You've shown interest, but you haven't risked offending any attending/resident/nurse/tech/janitor/etc. Think about all the stupid stuff you might say on interview day when you're nervous and extrapolate that by 30 days.

 

[Richspiders07]

My stance is that if you want to go to a particular region, rotate at a program around the area but not at the one you're in love with.

I can see this point backfiring though. Interviewer: "So, i see you did an away rotation at Duke. I guess that means you want to go there more than here at UNC." etc You'd probably need to have a great explanation why you chose that program over the others in the same area, because "i'm afraid I'd mess up here at my #1" probably wouldn't cut it.

 

[stiffany]

I can see this point backfiring though. Interviewer: "So, i see you did an away rotation at Duke. I guess that means you want to go there more than here at UNC." etc You'd probably need to have a great explanation why you chose that program over the others in the same area, because "i'm afraid I'd mess up here at my #1" probably wouldn't cut it.

On a similar note, do you think this could backfire for programs outside of the region of the away? "I see you did two aways in City B across the country. Why would you ever want to be here?"

 

[Tiger26]

I can see this point backfiring though. Interviewer: "So, i see you did an away rotation at Duke. I guess that means you want to go there more than here at UNC." etc You'd probably need to have a great explanation why you chose that program over the others in the same area, because "i'm afraid I'd mess up here at my #1" probably wouldn't cut it.

Just saying that because I've been on both sides--both as a med student and resident. Rotating at a place creates 30 days worth of opportunities to say or do something even minimally stupid or offensive that people use to forge an opinion of you.

Nobody I know who rotated at the place I did got a shot there in the match. Conversely, we'll discuss candidates as being stellar or less-than steller who rotated with use during the summer. Just rotating here doesn't give an automatic in.

As for the region thing, just say you were interested in ending up in the area and didn't have a good sense of how to choose programs. Chances are you'll get invites at every program in the region you rotate in if you have a solid app.