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I am deciding on which of these schools to attend. Any insight on curriculum, rotations and any other info that you think is helpful would be great. I am particularly concerned about rotations.
AZCOM vs Touro CA and NV
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I cannot speak for Touro California asides from what I have read on these forums, but I have interviewed at Touro-Nevada and AZCOM and can give you what my understanding of them are.
From what I understand, Touro Nevada probably has the best rotations out of the three schools mentioned. The reason for this is because Nevada has a huge shortage of physicians right now, so all the local hospitals are welcoming med students with open arms. They allow you to arrange your own rotations if you choose, but there's enough good rotation spots around the area so that you'd never have to move if you didn't want to.
I have heard from others that rotation spots for Touro-California isn't as good due to it being so close to UCSF. I believe Touro-California students have to do some of their rotations in the Nevada area.
As for AZCOM, I know there has been some complaints by past students about not enough rotation spots due to University of Arizona's monopoly on rotation sites. However I believe that recently this monopoly has been diminished which has made many of the spots now more available to AZCOM students. Even with the class increase to 250 this year and the wave of students from SOMA, my interviewers have assured me that this will not be a problem, and that there will be enough spots for students to stay in the Phoenix area for all rotations if they chose to do so.
If I had to choose between these 3 schools, I would probably choose AZCOM. That school really impressed me during my interview day, the campus was very nice and the students also seemed pretty happy. They also have a very impressive first time COMLEX 1 and 2 pass rate (98%) and their COMLEX 1 scores are also way above average which shows that their curriculum works well. Touro Nevada seems like it may have better rotation sites, but it's still a fairly new school that's still refining their curriculum. Their first time COMLEX 1 pass rates were in the high 80's and about average in score.
From what I understand, Touro Nevada probably has the best rotations out of the three schools mentioned. The reason for this is because Nevada has a huge shortage of physicians right now, so all the local hospitals are welcoming med students with open arms. They allow you to arrange your own rotations if you choose, but there's enough good rotation spots around the area so that you'd never have to move if you didn't want to.
I have heard from others that rotation spots for Touro-California isn't as good due to it being so close to UCSF. I believe Touro-California students have to do some of their rotations in the Nevada area.
As for AZCOM, I know there has been some complaints by past students about not enough rotation spots due to University of Arizona's monopoly on rotation sites. However I believe that recently this monopoly has been diminished which has made many of the spots now more available to AZCOM students. Even with the class increase to 250 this year and the wave of students from SOMA, my interviewers have assured me that this will not be a problem, and that there will be enough spots for students to stay in the Phoenix area for all rotations if they chose to do so.
If I had to choose between these 3 schools, I would probably choose AZCOM. That school really impressed me during my interview day, the campus was very nice and the students also seemed pretty happy. They also have a very impressive first time COMLEX 1 and 2 pass rate (98%) and their COMLEX 1 scores are also way above average which shows that their curriculum works well. Touro Nevada seems like it may have better rotation sites, but it's still a fairly new school that's still refining their curriculum. Their first time COMLEX 1 pass rates were in the high 80's and about average in score.
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I'm from Touro Cali and here are my 2 cents:
"I have heard from others that rotation spots for Touro-California isn't as good due to it being so close to UCSF. I believe Touro-California students have to do some of their rotations in the Nevada area."
That's not true- My classmates have great spots in the bay area including UCSF sites. There are also spots at Kern medical center in bakersfield cali, spots in Michigan, NY, vegas and so.cal. Fourth year, there are even more opportunities, like the Kiaser hospitals in the bay, UCSF sites, and more. I did most of my rotations at Arrowhead, the San Bernadino county hospital (so.cal), but this spot might not be available for Touro anymore since Western wants to hog everything up! Also, my classmate from Washington wanted to go back there, so she was allowed to set up all her own rotations and was not forced to go to the main sites during her third year. Our Dean is cool like that. She knows family is important.
Touro Cali has exams in blocks (which I love)... 4-5 weeks of lectures, one week of 10 exams. This gives the students time for the material to really sink in. Although I heard they keep changing the curriculum. eek!
Living in the bay area is fun too! You're close to SF, berkeley, and napa! And because of the exam blocks, you can take your first few weekends off to go and enjoy with your friends!
I think you should pick based on where you want to be for rotations and residency. I want to stay in so.cal, and I got that opportunity. So I'm happy. and I'll prob be in a residency program in so.cal too.
I don't really think there is a big difference in the schools except location... but AZCOM has a nice passage rate! Good job! I don't really know about ours... I don't think it's so hot. There are always people in your class that you wonder about... know what I mean? I guess I never really cared because I knew that I would do well no matter what, since I do a lot of self studying.
I've met fourth year students from both NV and AZ... I would say I was at least equal knowledge wise. It really just comes down to where you want to be.
Hope this helps! Clearly, I base a lot of my decisions on LOCATION! very important to me. =) PM me if you have more questions since I'm not on here so often.
"I have heard from others that rotation spots for Touro-California isn't as good due to it being so close to UCSF. I believe Touro-California students have to do some of their rotations in the Nevada area."
That's not true- My classmates have great spots in the bay area including UCSF sites. There are also spots at Kern medical center in bakersfield cali, spots in Michigan, NY, vegas and so.cal. Fourth year, there are even more opportunities, like the Kiaser hospitals in the bay, UCSF sites, and more. I did most of my rotations at Arrowhead, the San Bernadino county hospital (so.cal), but this spot might not be available for Touro anymore since Western wants to hog everything up! Also, my classmate from Washington wanted to go back there, so she was allowed to set up all her own rotations and was not forced to go to the main sites during her third year. Our Dean is cool like that. She knows family is important.
Touro Cali has exams in blocks (which I love)... 4-5 weeks of lectures, one week of 10 exams. This gives the students time for the material to really sink in. Although I heard they keep changing the curriculum. eek!
Living in the bay area is fun too! You're close to SF, berkeley, and napa! And because of the exam blocks, you can take your first few weekends off to go and enjoy with your friends!
I think you should pick based on where you want to be for rotations and residency. I want to stay in so.cal, and I got that opportunity. So I'm happy. and I'll prob be in a residency program in so.cal too.
I don't really think there is a big difference in the schools except location... but AZCOM has a nice passage rate! Good job! I don't really know about ours... I don't think it's so hot. There are always people in your class that you wonder about... know what I mean? I guess I never really cared because I knew that I would do well no matter what, since I do a lot of self studying.
I've met fourth year students from both NV and AZ... I would say I was at least equal knowledge wise. It really just comes down to where you want to be.
Hope this helps! Clearly, I base a lot of my decisions on LOCATION! very important to me. =) PM me if you have more questions since I'm not on here so often.
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If I were you, I would NOT choose AZCOM. Basically, it boils down to this- we have a new dean who does not care so much about the students, but would rather make Midwestern more money. That said, the curriculum 1st and 2nd year are pretty good. One new twist is that we no longer have early preceptor experience, which used to be a good drawing point for AZCOM. Now, we have 5 standardized patient experiences, which I think is not nearly enough. (Granted, I'm biased because I was told one thing during interviews 2 years ago, and now, as a 2nd year student, they spring upon us just 6 weeks ago that there will be no more preceptors 2nd year.)
As far as rotations go, no one really knows. The first class to be affected by a sweeping rotation change (which goes into effect next year) is mine. The school promises good rotations in Arizona (NOT just Phoenix- you will have to rotate in rural locations also), but I have a hard time believing that this is possible with the new class size. In addition, A.T. Still University just opened a new school in Mesa (a suburb of Phoenix). We have been told that they will not take any rotations from AZCOM, but that seems to be wishful thinking.
I know nothing about the other schools you're looking into- I was accepted at 2 other D.O. schools (CCOM and KCUMB)- but if I were you, I would look elsewhere. From what I know about the new dean and the money hungry administration, I would choose a school which cares about you as a student, and not simply your $40,000 tuition. Just my 2 cents.
As far as rotations go, no one really knows. The first class to be affected by a sweeping rotation change (which goes into effect next year) is mine. The school promises good rotations in Arizona (NOT just Phoenix- you will have to rotate in rural locations also), but I have a hard time believing that this is possible with the new class size. In addition, A.T. Still University just opened a new school in Mesa (a suburb of Phoenix). We have been told that they will not take any rotations from AZCOM, but that seems to be wishful thinking.
I know nothing about the other schools you're looking into- I was accepted at 2 other D.O. schools (CCOM and KCUMB)- but if I were you, I would look elsewhere. From what I know about the new dean and the money hungry administration, I would choose a school which cares about you as a student, and not simply your $40,000 tuition. Just my 2 cents.
I am a first year at AZCOM and i must say i am very satisfied with the education i am getting here. I have many friends that are also in med school, both MD and DO and i must say our program is just as good if not better then some. I dont understand how the dean would in anyway affect the course of education you get from the first 2 years at AZCOm, from what i remember the education you get from a school is directly related to the amount of work one puts into the classes and curriculum, and the last time i checked our wonderful teachers teach us, not the dean. I would think that is how 3rd, 4th years and residency will be, to put in our own effort and time, and i would suggest those who jus whine about how much your not getting from a program, to learn some of those skills.
On another note I know that AT still in Mesa is affiliated with the CDC and they do their rotations at designated spots and is completely untradtional in their approach to teaching clinical medicine, so i dont believe it will affect AZCOM. I can not say much about how our 3rd year rotations will be, but i am sure if one is assertive and willing to do some leg work, just like everyone else at every other medical school, we will become great docs. In the end AZCOm has great board scores, match list, the teachers are great and you cant beat the weather =P those are my 2 cents, Damn this post is long, hope this is helpful =) good luck to yall CHEERS!!!!👍
On another note I know that AT still in Mesa is affiliated with the CDC and they do their rotations at designated spots and is completely untradtional in their approach to teaching clinical medicine, so i dont believe it will affect AZCOM. I can not say much about how our 3rd year rotations will be, but i am sure if one is assertive and willing to do some leg work, just like everyone else at every other medical school, we will become great docs. In the end AZCOm has great board scores, match list, the teachers are great and you cant beat the weather =P those are my 2 cents, Damn this post is long, hope this is helpful =) good luck to yall CHEERS!!!!👍
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Thank you DOmb for that post! It is getting so depressing reading all the negative things about AZCOM because I have decided to go there. I agree with you, I belive that if our class size increases to 250 they must have some plan with what to do with us our 3rd and 4th year, and really they have a couple of years from now to figure it all out. I don't think I just have blind faith in them, but I believe that if I am pro-active enough everything will work out fine.
I can't tell you how relieved I am when I hear good things, because I am so excited to go to AZCOM!
I just wanted to second that info at AT Still- Mesa. They aren't rotating in the Phoenix area... in fact each class will only be in Phoenix for their first year, and then they are sent all over the country.
I can't tell you how relieved I am when I hear good things, because I am so excited to go to AZCOM!
I just wanted to second that info at AT Still- Mesa. They aren't rotating in the Phoenix area... in fact each class will only be in Phoenix for their first year, and then they are sent all over the country.
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Sorry if my previous post sounds depressing, but I just wanted everyone who is deciding to come to AZCOM that there are some real issues regarding early clinical experience and 3rd year rotations. I will agree that the 1st 2 years are what you make of them (i.e., I can pass everything and not learn much unless I really put the time in to really learn it). In that regard, AZCOM is above average. Board scores, on first examination, are above average (that's a whole other story). Yet, as school around the country are working towards having better early clinical experience during 1st and 2nd years, AZCOM took a huge step backward, getting rid of early preceptors and replacing them with ONLY FIVE standardized patient exams (and only 2 of those are even watched by a physician to be critiqued). And, while AZCOM has promised great 3rd year rotations for everyone, they took away your freedom to choose out-of-system (read: out of state) rotations- something that this school had used every year until this one. I understand their supposed reasoning, that rotations should be more standardized, but I find it hard to believe that there are enough quality rotations in AZ for 250 students. And, although the new A.T. Still-Mesa school says they will not be rotating in Phoenix, you would be hard pressed to find anyone at AZCOM who would agree that this is true. Finally, the issues with the dean comes down to the fact that she does not care nearly as much about students as she does the money AZCOM is bringing in. The implications of that are just starting to show. Do I hope that AZCOM continues to be a leader in osteopathic medicine? Yes, of course. Do I hope that they continue to turn out some of the best D.O.'s in the nation? Definitely. I just believe that the regime change in leadership might have some dire consequences on future classes- specifically, the first class of 250 students. Sorry, but I don't believe this school is ready for that.
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I really do appreciate your honesty... although I like to believe that everything will be ok, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there might be challenges.
My genuine question is this, and I'm sorry to hijack the thread... but how is any accrediting body allowing this increase if AZCOM genuinely doesn't have the 3rd and 4th year experience set up to accomodate a bigger class (never mind the facilities)? Why are they letting them do it? Shouldn't it be in everyone's best interest to grow at a rate that will turn out competitive board scores and match lists?
My genuine question is this, and I'm sorry to hijack the thread... but how is any accrediting body allowing this increase if AZCOM genuinely doesn't have the 3rd and 4th year experience set up to accomodate a bigger class (never mind the facilities)? Why are they letting them do it? Shouldn't it be in everyone's best interest to grow at a rate that will turn out competitive board scores and match lists?
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That's a good question- here's what I think... there ARE enough rotation spots available for 3rd and 4th years. But, I highly doubt all of them are of the high quality that most students would like. So, in that sense, it's not necessarily in your best interest, even though there should be enough spots. Therefore, I don't think accredidation (spelling?) comes into play in this situation. You could also look at it this way though- as long as you have some recommendations from your good rotations, it doesn't matter how bad your others were when it comes to residency applications.
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I agree i loved the school and am excited to have been accepted. I can't believe the school would risk its reputation if they really didn't believe they could pull it off. Has the increase been approved. How are the 3rd and 4th yr students faring now?????
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I too had my heart set on AZCOM and have gotten a bit worried about what I read on SDN about the rotation sites. I know increasing the class to 250 is a big step but there are many other DO schools with class sizes about that size and nobody is complaining about thier rotation sites. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the U.S. and growing fast. I think the quality rotations are there and midwestern just needs to secure them.
either way im 95% sure im going to AZCOM so im biased that way.
WOOHOO!!
either way im 95% sure im going to AZCOM so im biased that way.
WOOHOO!!
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Those other schools either started off with 250 student classes, or increased them a very long time ago, with sufficient accomodations for their classes already taken into account.
So far, the admin at AZCOM has yet to provide any concrete answers on how or if they've managed to secure additional rotation sites, and specifically what type of rotation sites (preceptor vs residency).
"We're working on it" does not seem very reassuring to a person who is about to invest 180-200k on his/her medical education.
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true, there does not seem to be any concrete rotation sites setup right now but AZCOM has got over 2.5 YEARS! to get that in order. Im sure when other schools increased their student bodies to over 200 there were a lot of worries but in time it all worked out.
I do realize I may have to research a bit to find the better 3rd year rotation sites but im ok with that.
I do realize I may have to research a bit to find the better 3rd year rotation sites but im ok with that.
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Yes! High Five! That's how I feel too. I'm so excited to go to AZCOM! Over the last few days, I've decided that its not worth worrying about any more for now, there is nothing I can do at this point, and I know that Phoenix is where I belong.
See you at AZCOM in the fall, A18Devil!
