AZCOM vs Touro-NV

[MN premed]

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I'm currently weighing the differences between these 2 schools, and I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight or if anyone else is choosing between these two. This is part of my list that I've made so far for myself (from information I've found online or at the interview). Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything, or if you want to add anything I've missed! I see a lot of people comparing schools, which is "better," but I'm more interested in knowing the differences between them, because what's a positive for some people is actually a negative for others.

AZCOM​

v Glendale (Phoenix)
v Higher than average COMLEX scores and pass rates (99% ??)
v Tests every Monday 1st semester, and twice per week 2nd semester
v May have to move 3rd year to Tucson, Ohio, SoCal, or somewhere else. 4th year is open
v Tuition: $45,469
v Mandatory attendance at labs only (100%)
v Lectures are NOT recorded
v Class Size: 250
v OMM tables are NOT adjustable
v Cafeteria on-campus

Touro – NV​

v Henderson (Las Vegas)
v Higher than average COMLEX I pass rate (94%), not sure about average score
v Block exams (similar to midterms and finals)
v Will stay in Las Vegas for 3rd year. 4th year is more open
v Tuition: $39,025
v Mandatory attendance at lectures (70%) and labs (100%)
v Lectures are recorded and synched to powerpoint slides
v Class size: 135
v OMM tables are adjustable
v No cafeteria on-campus
v Required to buy a new laptop

 

[SolanoDoc]

I got an idea, maybe you should try to take a mini vacation and spend time around both schools, talk to current students and see what they think about their experiences. I made my decision for Touro California largely on some DOs I know in the SF Bay Area and the fact that my wife will divorce me if we have to relocate for my medical school education.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm currently weighing the differences between these 2 schools, and I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight or if anyone else is choosing between these two. This is part of my list that I've made so far for myself (from information I've found online or at the interview). Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything, or if you want to add anything I've missed! I see a lot of people comparing schools, which is "better," but I'm more interested in knowing the differences between them, because what's a positive for some people is actually a negative for others.

AZCOM​

v Glendale (Phoenix)
v Higher than average COMLEX scores and pass rates
v Tests every Monday 1st semester, and twice per week 2nd semester
v May have to move 3rd year to Tucson, Ohio, SoCal, or somewhere else. 4th year is open
v Tuition: $45,469
v Mandatory attendance at labs only (100%)
v Lectures are NOT recorded
v Class Size: 250
v OMM tables are NOT adjustable
v Cafeteria on-campus

Touro – NV​

v Henderson (Las Vegas)
v Lower than average COMLEX scores and pass rates
v Block exams (similar to midterms and finals)
v Will stay in Las Vegas for 3rd year. 4th year is more open
v Tuition: $39,025
v Mandatory attendance at lectures (70%) and labs (100%)
v Lectures are recorded and synched to powerpoint slides
v Class size: 135
v OMM tables are adjustable
v No cafeteria on-campus
v Required to buy a new laptop

I think not having to move for 3/4th year at TU-NV are its biggest advantage. I'm 99% sure you can do all rotations with 15 min of the school. However, I do not know anything about the quality of these rotations.

 

[Flushot]

You know, I had to make this same decision a year ago. I was sitting on a waitlist for a top choice, but ultimately had to decide on these two.

For starters, let me try to clear a few things up:

AZCOM out of state rotations: these are voluntary. They do their best to maintain this certain mile radius around the school and if I can find it, the second years got a recent presentation on the rotations for 3rd year. It will clear things up for sure.

tl;dr - They won't make you move to SoCal or Ohio. These are voluntary.

TU-NV laptop: they don't make you buy one. They list specifications that your current laptop must meet and you can just use that. As far as I know, as long as it can run powerpoint and has wireless, it should be okay. That said, it has to be a laptop; you'll bring it to class every time.


I decided on AZCOM for mainly 2 reasons: the weekly exams and quarter schedule and I had completed the SMP here so I was pretty used to the school.

I needed a constant curriculum to keep me from getting complacent. As for rotations, I had limited info from a 1st year back in 2008, and I know more now, so even though I still feel a little uneasy, it is hard to regret my decision. I take a little solace in that AZCOM has had 12-13 years or so to prepare and establish itself as opposed to TU-NV.

I have no doubt that TU-NV will have local rotations, although I could probably just ask a former SMP classmate who is there right now about how that is going. They definitely have less schools to compete with, so it makes sense that it'll be easy to get some place nearby.

It might not have helped you much since I did the SMP thing, but hopefully I at least cleared up some common misconceptions. Good luck on your decision.

 

[MN premed]

Thanks guys! Good advice, a mini-vacation might be a good idea. I do like the security of not needing to move anywhere for 3rd year. I wish I could know before deciding how it turns out for the 2nd years at AZCOM this year. That would be nice to know if everyone was happy with the location they receive. I suppose there are probably enough people wanting to go back East that Ohio wouldn't be forced on anyone.

I have another thing to add. Just looking around their websites and I see this.

Touro:
Has 2 elective rotations 3rd year and 2 elective rotations 4th year

AZCOM:
Has 0 elective rotations 3rd year and 5 elective rotations 4th year

Would it be an advantage to have electives (to do audition rotations) during the 3rd year? How early during the 4th year do you apply to residency programs? Wouldn't it help to have experience with their program before the actual application, so they may be more likely to interview you? (If you do well of course!)

 

[tuffguy13]

I do like the security of not needing to move anywhere for 3rd year. I wish I could know before deciding how it turns out for the 2nd years at AZCOM this year.

Does anyone know what other schools do/don't move students out of state? I am looking for a school where I won't have to move to then be shipped out.

I think I heard ATSU-SOMA did this too btw...I don't remember the source off hand but I think it was a thread here as well as their website. Why do the AZ schools ship people out?

 

[Flushot]

MN, I would say there is an advantage to doing electives 3rd year. I believe you submit ERAS in same way you would submit AACOMAS or AMCAS. It'll be in the summer/fall of your 4th year, with interviews throughout. I'll have to double check again.

Does anyone know what other schools do/don't move students out of state? I am looking for a school where I won't have to move to then be shipped out.

I think I heard ATSU-SOMA did this too btw...I don't remember the source off hand but I think it was a thread here as well as their website. Why do the AZ schools ship people out?

I can't say much about SOMA since their curriculum is unorthodox. They start you off clinically very early and I'm not sure if they 'force' you to go to somewhere in NY, but I can say for AZCOM, they will not force you to move out of the state. They have a certain mile radius around the school and region to maintain, which may or may not require you to move.

It's by school really. I wouldn't generalize all of AZ since I don't know about the other schools, but you have to remember that AZ does have a lot of competition in a small area.

 

[JaggerPlate]

SOMA is CHC curriculum, which means you select a region and complete your last 3 years (I think) at all community clinics. So, technically you don't have to move, but be prepared to move away from AZ and complete everything in clinics.

Flushot ... I was under the impression that all 3/4th year rotations at AZCOM were now completely a computerized lottery and you could end up in Ohio despite wanting or not wanting to go.

TUNV I do not think you will have to move, but I am not sure of the quality of these rotations.

 

[tuffguy13]

I can't say much about SOMA since their curriculum is unorthodox. They start you off clinically very early and I'm not sure if they 'force' you to go to somewhere in NY, but I can say for AZCOM, they will not force you to move out of the state. They have a certain mile radius around the school and region to maintain, which may or may not require you to move.

It's by school really. I wouldn't generalize all of AZ since I don't know about the other schools, but you have to remember that AZ does have a lot of competition in a small area.

i appreciate the quick feedback, thanks a lot!

 

[raebear]

TU-NV laptop: they don't make you buy one. They list specifications that your current laptop must meet and you can just use that. As far as I know, as long as it can run powerpoint and has wireless, it should be okay. That said, it has to be a laptop; you'll bring it to class every time.

At my interview they told me that starting with the class of 2014 they will be requiring the students to buy a specific PC laptop (for about $3000 if I remember correctly??) that will be pre-loaded with all of the software and stuff they want the students to have one it. We asked if we could substitute our own and they said no. So I guess that's a new change they are making for the entering class.

 

[TeamZissou]

MN, I would say there is an advantage to doing electives 3rd year. I believe you submit ERAS in same way you would submit AACOMAS or AMCAS. It'll be in the summer/fall of your 4th year, with interviews throughout. I'll have to double check again.

ERAS is for Residency applications. VSAS is for elective rotations. Also DO students are currently not allowed to participate in VSAS, so unless DO schools make a huge push and get that sorted out things are going to be interesting now that the majority of rotations are signed up onto the VSAS system where as last year it was a minority so it didn't matter as much.

 

[Flushot]

Flushot ... I was under the impression that all 3/4th year rotations at AZCOM were now completely a computerized lottery and you could end up in Ohio despite wanting or not wanting to go.

From Dr. Kemper, AZCOM's dean:
"Dean Kemper stated that there are some major changes in the pipeline for third year for the Classes of 2012 and 2013. There have been changes to our accreditation requirements and our school has started making a transition to connect our students with our OPTI programs (For more information regarding OPTI, Google Osteopathic Postdoctoral Training Institution). About half way through second year, the NEW process to choose our third year clinical rotation sites will begin with volunteer selection for a specific region/area in our state (Sierra Vista, Gilbert, East Phoenix, West Phoenix, Tucson, etc). If there are too many students that volunteer for a specific area/region then a lottery system will be used to decide who will go to that particular region. This change was implemented so that students are not being sent all over the state for rotations.

These “general areas” will be classified into two categories: rural or non-rural. A rural area is one whereby you will be allowed one elective rotation that you can choose to do elsewhere (i.e. level 1 trauma for general surgery or anything else that may fit your medicine career path). A non-rural site will not allow for an elective and your rotations will be decided based on the hospital sites that are in the area.

Dean Kemper will have a list of all hospitals in the different regions so that you will be able to pick a region that best fits your career goals. Chairs have been assigned for each area so that they are responsible for students and rotations in that region.

There are currently some out of state options that are being explored and more details about this will come in December. As the SGA finds out more information at the Dean’s Advisory council meetings, we will make sure to pass this information on to you.

Our 4th year of medical education will continue as already scheduled and no major changes are in place for this year."


I plan to post this in the AZCOM thread as well.


Regrettably, I can only find statements from our SGA president that Ohio CORE is voluntary, rather than something official. If I find it, I will reaffirm that they are not throwing people out there against their will.

At my interview they told me that starting with the class of 2014 they will be requiring the students to buy a specific PC laptop (for about $3000 if I remember correctly??) that will be pre-loaded with all of the software and stuff they want the students to have one it. We asked if we could substitute our own and they said no. So I guess that's a new change they are making for the entering class.

I would guess so too. Is the computer included in your tuition like some other schools? In that case everyone would have the same one, if they want everyone to have the same programs on it.

ERAS is for Residency applications. VSAS is for elective rotations. Also DO students are currently not allowed to participate in VSAS, so unless DO schools make a huge push and get that sorted out things are going to be interesting now that the majority of rotations are signed up onto the VSAS system where as last year it was a minority so it didn't matter as much.

I said ERAS because MN asked about when to apply for residency programs.

 

[Flushot]

I just wanted to make a separate post about the matter with TU-NV and AZCOM, because I might've come off the wrong way.

For starters, I'll say that AZCOM isn't perfect. Ever since its expansion and the Ohio thing with 2011, AZCOM has had a lot of bad rumors surrounding, some justified, others not so much. I really had only a choice between this and TU-NV, and I was willing to take the gamble with AZCOM.

I believe that 2012 and 2013 will make positive changes to 2014, but I hope people know that it isn't all doom and gloom nor it is sunshine and roses. We still are dealing with some issues like a new computer testing center and other oddities that other schools might have down pat. I'll gladly discuss this with anyone considering AZCOM to see if it is a deal breaker.

That said, TU-NV has a lot of potential too. I thought a lot about the school, since it basically has dominance over the state, from what I gathered. I have a former SMP classmate there that fills me in and he seems pretty happy except for a few things.

It's hard to tell though about rotations and other things going on. For example, my 1st year friend told me of the Dean suggesting the addition a Vet school to the NV campus and how it would benefit the DO program. I was confused as was he, because they're basically using the empty complex next door to expand the school and selling the idea to the current students.

He wondered why the Dean was trying to convince the DO students and why they wouldn't use that area to maybe enhance the existing DO and PA program or something, rather than add another degree. Anyhow, hopefully you see what I mean.

I can't say much more about it, because I stopped looking into the school after I made my decision, but I feared I might've come off inevitably biased here. I do want both programs to succeed for sure, but at some point, I had to make a decision. You really have to take the bad with the good and be happy to be moving forward.

Anyhow, good luck with your decision MN and tuff, too. No school is perfect, so just find the best fit. I agree with the mini-vacation and a tour thing.

 

[SolanoDoc]

I'm currently weighing the differences between these 2 schools, and I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight or if anyone else is choosing between these two. This is part of my list that I've made so far for myself (from information I've found online or at the interview). Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything, or if you want to add anything I've missed! I see a lot of people comparing schools, which is "better," but I'm more interested in knowing the differences between them, because what's a positive for some people is actually a negative for others.

AZCOM​

v Glendale (Phoenix)
v Higher than average COMLEX scores and pass rates
v Tests every Monday 1st semester, and twice per week 2nd semester
v May have to move 3rd year to Tucson, Ohio, SoCal, or somewhere else. 4th year is open
v Tuition: $45,469
v Mandatory attendance at labs only (100%)
v Lectures are NOT recorded
v Class Size: 250
v OMM tables are NOT adjustable
v Cafeteria on-campus

Touro – NV​

v Henderson (Las Vegas)
v Lower than average COMLEX scores and pass rates
v Block exams (similar to midterms and finals)
v Will stay in Las Vegas for 3rd year. 4th year is more open
v Tuition: $39,025
v Mandatory attendance at lectures (70%) and labs (100%)
v Lectures are recorded and synched to powerpoint slides
v Class size: 135
v OMM tables are adjustable
v No cafeteria on-campus
v Required to buy a new laptop

When you are going to wind up over $250k in debt, a tuition difference of 6k is a drop in the bucket. Both schools will get you where you need to go, I think Touro NV's advantage is that you do not have to move in year 3 and basically can complete everything in the area. For some people this might actually be a bad thing because people like to practice in different areas.

As far as AZCOM is concerned I was told by admissions that a good number of students could be sent to Ohio and it was not voluntary. AZCOM recently doubled their class size. Both schools will get you to where you need to go.

 

[Flushot]

Here is the Ohio CORE website:

http://www.ohiocore.org/sfr/index.htm

According to the front page, here are all of the participating schools:

OU-COM, Des Moines College of Osteopathic Medicine, A.T. Still University-Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, A.T. Still University-School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, Midwestern University-Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine and Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences


Right now, I can't quote any faculty member saying that we are not forced to go. It seems AZCOM 2011 had all volunteers go, even though they did not fill all of the seats.

Instead, all I have is AZCOM's SGA president saying so, if they means anything. I'll try to determine this, but AZCOM not alone in this program and I believe the schools will do their best to accommodate. But again, I guess I do have to concede this is a risk you take when going here unless I can confirm otherwise.

EDIT - I have reviewed Dr. Kemper's presentation powerpoint and I am currently making sure if I can share this powerpoint on here. I think it will answer a lot of questions people might have, so hopefully I get the go ahead.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

When you are going to wind up over $250k in debt, a tuition difference of 6k is a drop in the bucket. Both schools will get you where you need to go, I think Touro NV's advantage is that you do not have to move in year 3 and basically can complete everything in the area. For some people this might actually be a bad thing because people like to practice in different areas.

I think that's one of Touro NV strength is that their students don't have to be shipped around, BUT in the past their rotations have been a little shoddy.

 

[Brocimus]

I think that's one of Touro NV strength is that their students don't have to be shipped around, BUT in the past their rotations have been a little shoddy.

How so?

 

[MN premed]

Here is the Ohio CORE website:

http://www.ohiocore.org/sfr/index.htm

According to the front page, here are all of the participating schools:

OU-COM, Des Moines College of Osteopathic Medicine, A.T. Still University-Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, A.T. Still University-School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona, Midwestern University-Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine and Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences


Right now, I can't quote any faculty member saying that we are not forced to go. It seems AZCOM 2011 had all volunteers go, even though they did not fill all of the seats.

Instead, all I have is AZCOM's SGA president saying so, if they means anything. I'll try to determine this, but AZCOM not alone in this program and I believe the schools will do their best to accommodate. But again, I guess I do have to concede this is a risk you take when going here unless I can confirm otherwise.

EDIT - I have reviewed Dr. Kemper's presentation powerpoint and I am currently making sure if I can share this powerpoint on here. I think it will answer a lot of questions people might have, so hopefully I get the go ahead.

Thanks for the info! It would be really great to see the powerpoint as well.


And I am also curious what was bad about Touro's rotation quality? One thing they pointed out at the interview (although I'm not sure how true it is) is that a lot of doctors/hospitals are happy to help with the school, because NV does not have very good healthcare. The new medical school is seen as a way to improve that, by turning out more physicians in NV.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

How so?

Couple of students that I emailed mentioned that rotations are pretty much a hit or miss kinda thing. Some students got really good rotations and then there are some students that didn't get good rotations. You can PM FurtureInternist or look in the pros and cons thread for information or email some students. I'm only interested in Touro because I'm from here and it would be an easier transition so I'm hoping by the time I apply that the clinical education has gotten better than what was previously said about it. I would definitely try to get in contact with some current MSII or IV, and see if this sentiment still reigns true for Touro-NV


ON the Pros and Cons Thread..Page 13 Post # 610 (quick review)

FutureInternist Review of the school

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7717945#post7717945

 

[JaggerPlate]

Couple of students that I emailed mentioned that rotations are pretty much a hit or miss kinda thing. Some students got really good rotations and then there are some students that didn't get good rotations. You can PM FurtureInternist or look in the pros and cons thread for information or email some students. I'm only interested in Touro because I'm from here and it would be an easier transition so I'm hoping by the time I apply that the clinical education has gotten better than what was previously said about it. I would definitely try to get in contact with some current MSII or IV, and see if this sentiment still reigns true for Touro-NV


ON the Pros and Cons Thread..Page 13 Post # 610 (quick review)

FutureInternist Review of the school

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7717945#post7717945

That's not cool that the rotations are hit or miss. TUNV basically has the opportunity to set up rotations on a completely blank slate. I think NV only has one other school, and it's allopathic, and state. I think if they could have hammered down some solid sites in NV, they could have become a very sought after school due to location, and could have some stats like Western in a few years. I'm planning on doing my own investigation into the rotations ... and I do think futureinternist's thoughts may be a bit dated, but the fact that you emailed several students and heard the 'hit or miss' comment isn't too good.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

That's not cool that the rotations are hit or miss. TUNV basically has the opportunity to set up rotations on a completely blank slate. I think NV only has one other school, and it's allopathic, and state. I think if they could have hammered down some solid sites in NV, they could have become a very sought after school due to location, and could have some stats like Western in a few years. I'm planning on doing my own investigation into the rotations ... and I do think futureinternist's thoughts may be a bit dated, but the fact that you emailed several students and heard the 'hit or miss' comment isn't too good.

Definitely let us know what you find out because everyone I've talked to recently graduated, so this year for MSIIIs and IV could have changed for the better. At least I hope so.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Definitely let us know what you find out because everyone I've talked to recently graduated, so this year for MSIIIs and IV could have changed for the better. At least I hope so.

I will for sure. My whole life right now is interviewing and researching 3/4th years. Hahaha.

 

[MN premed]

I will for sure. My whole life right now is interviewing and researching 3/4th years. Hahaha.

I'm curious how you're researching them? I want to do the same, but it's hard because I'm not exactly sure what to look for or how to find it. And I don't know anyone at any medical school! I'd like to know what you find out.


Also, does anyone know if AZCOM has a board prep class included in the curriculum? I know Touro doesn't, but the students at the interview said that they bring in reps from a prep class (Not Kaplan, but I can't remember the name of it) and you can buy the package from them. Both the student tour guides said that they signed up for it.

And if anyone knows the pass rates/scores for the 2 schools, that'd be nice. I want to say that AZCOM's was about 98% and Touro's 88%. Not positive on that though. Although I do see that AZCOM has pre-screening, and I'm not sure that Touro does.

 

[Flushot]

When I was asking about Touro-NV's clinicals, I talked to some students and mainly my interview host. He was a 2nd year then obviously, but they were already deciding on where to go.

I still keep in touch and see what he's up to, but my best bet would be to contact that list of student hosts that they gave you in that email for the interview invite and ask for contact info with a 3rd or 4th year. That's what I would do anyway.

Here's a link to AZCOM's electives:
http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/Academic/AZCOM/azcomElectives.htm

It appears there will be an elective for COMLEX review starting this spring. The word doc is for registration.

AZCOM had a powerpoint with their board scores, but I think the Dean of Students at NV just told us what the general average was around. The 2011 class just submitted scores and out of ~140 students or so, 5 have not reported and 1 failed. Take that for what you will but I think 3rd and 4th years might be more important.

 

[JaggerPlate]

When I was asking about Touro-NV's clinicals, I talked to some students and mainly my interview host. He was a 2nd year then obviously, but they were already deciding on where to go.

I still keep in touch and see what he's up to, but my best bet would be to contact that list of student hosts that they gave you in that email for the interview invite and ask for contact info with a 3rd or 4th year. That's what I would do anyway.

Here's a link to AZCOM's electives:
http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/Academic/AZCOM/azcomElectives.htm

It appears there will be an elective for COMLEX review starting this spring. The word doc is for registration.

AZCOM had a powerpoint with their board scores, but I think the Dean of Students at NV just told us what the general average was around. The 2011 class just submitted scores and out of ~140 students or so, 5 have not reported and 1 failed. Take that for what you will but I think 3rd and 4th years might be more important.

What did you hear about the NV rotations when you asked??

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm curious how you're researching them? I want to do the same, but it's hard because I'm not exactly sure what to look for or how to find it. And I don't know anyone at any medical school! I'd like to know what you find out.


Also, does anyone know if AZCOM has a board prep class included in the curriculum? I know Touro doesn't, but the students at the interview said that they bring in reps from a prep class (Not Kaplan, but I can't remember the name of it) and you can buy the package from them. Both the student tour guides said that they signed up for it.

And if anyone knows the pass rates/scores for the 2 schools, that'd be nice. I want to say that AZCOM's was about 98% and Touro's 88%. Not positive on that though. Although I do see that AZCOM has pre-screening, and I'm not sure that Touro does.

PMing 3/4th years, searching SDN, googling, finding affiliate lists and checking out the hospitals, etc.

 

[Flushot]

What did you hear about the NV rotations when you asked??

Unfortunately, I got roughly the same response that MN got: it's a hit or miss. Some said it's what you get out of it, in the sense that even though you might be in a local clinic, you'll probably be doing everything but it'll be mostly minor things. If you want specifics, I can't help you but I'm certain you can find one.

If you want a direct contact, PM me and I can lead you to my 3rd year friend who was my interview host a year ago. He was also the 2nd year class president, so he's used to networking outside of the school. He's a good guy and will gladly talk to you if you're interested in exact details.

Speaking of which, the last time I talked to him, he was heading to the UMC in southern Nevada, which I think everyone eventually rotates into. He seemed more excited to just get away from the books but I would be excited to rotate there for anything. Here a link to the site:
http://www.umcsn.com/

Jagger, you've been around for a long time, so I'm thinking there's not much that will surprise you. It's all about give and take and I feel that in time, TU-NV will likely take advantage of the state's growth, but right now, I can't tell you much more than generalizations. I hope that helps though.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Yeah, I've been around a while, but I really feel like 3/4th year rotations are something that you can never ask enough questions about and really almost never get a clear objective opinion about. It seems like people either get their opinions from the school, or they are at 1/2 year student so they really aren't sure. OR if they are a 3/4 year they are swayed very harshly one way or another. Also, it seems like everyone has a different experience. I was recently at an interview where a 3 year student ranted (quite upset too) for minutes about how hard setting up his rotations were, how he spent months messing with it, and how bitter he was about it, and 10 seconds later the other 3rd year student in the room said he spent a total of 30 minutes setting his up and got everything he wanted.

I'm also still torn about the quality of really structured 4th year rotations vs maybe not as great, but a lot of elective rotation time (with little restrictions) for matching competitive residencies. It's all very confusing, and like you said, I've spent years messing around here and feel like I know my way around the block. So unless I'm an idiot (could be possible hahaha), this subject is just tricky, and I think the amount of people on the boards who are surprised when they get to the 3/4 years is really a testament to how hard it can be to really find a school that satisfies what you want years 3/4.

The reason I'm so surprised about NV (and I really haven't formulated an opinion yet) is because 1. They technically have their own hospital with their own residencies 2. They are the only osteopathic medical college in NV 3. They are one of the very few medical schools in NV. It seems like it's just a perfect place to swoop in and make sure all core is done at nice hospitals where students really get their hands dirty. I know that the school is a very desirable location to a lot of students, it's also new and boasts an impressive mix of quality labs, communication with professors, etc, and I think could really be a huge hit if students were on here raving about the clinical years.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me Flu. I'd actually love it if you could PM me the information of that 3rd year student you know. Especially because I promised a few more people on the boards that I'd reveal what I figured out about the clinical years.

Unfortunately, I got roughly the same response that MN got: it's a hit or miss. Some said it's what you get out of it, in the sense that even though you might be in a local clinic, you'll probably be doing everything but it'll be mostly minor things. If you want specifics, I can't help you but I'm certain you can find one.

If you want a direct contact, PM me and I can lead you to my 3rd year friend who was my interview host a year ago. He was also the 2nd year class president, so he's used to networking outside of the school. He's a good guy and will gladly talk to you if you're interested in exact details.

Speaking of which, the last time I talked to him, he was heading to the UMC in southern Nevada, which I think everyone eventually rotates into. He seemed more excited to just get away from the books but I would be excited to rotate there for anything. Here a link to the site:
http://www.umcsn.com/

Jagger, you've been around for a long time, so I'm thinking there's not much that will surprise you. It's all about give and take and I feel that in time, TU-NV will likely take advantage of the state's growth, but right now, I can't tell you much more than generalizations. I hope that helps though.

 

[Tinman85225]

Does anyone know what other schools do/don't move students out of state? I am looking for a school where I won't have to move to then be shipped out.

I think I heard ATSU-SOMA did this too btw...I don't remember the source off hand but I think it was a thread here as well as their website. Why do the AZ schools ship people out?

SOMA definitely does this! Also, their board scores this year (their first) came back below the national average (89% versus the national average of 90.15%). SOMA actually moves you after the first year.

 

[MN premed]

That's the first time I think that I've actually known that the national average was 90.15%. Good to know, I'd say Touro's pass rate is about average then if it's 88%. 2% isn't really a very big difference.

Also, I'm thinking, if Touro's rotations have been hit or miss, it probably has something to do with the fact that those clinics/hospitals have not really had many medical students in the past (due to NV's other medical school being in northern NV), so they maybe were having a rough start in adjusting to what to do with them. I'm wondering if this won't be so much of a problem by the time I get to clinicals. Also, AZCOM has been setting up lots of new rotations, from what I understand, for the increased number of students. Isn't it likely that their new rotations for the next couple years will be hit or miss too?

Right now, I'm kind of leaning towards Touro. No moving 3rd year, electives earlier (AZCOM has no 3rd year electives), recorded lectures w/ powerpoint, smaller class size, and even a little lower tuition. Not to mention the fact that they're the only medical school in the area. All seem to be pretty positive parts of the school in my opinion...But who knows.

 

[Flushot]

I'm still querying about that 3rd year powerpoint. They also posted a rotation overview powerpoint for the 2nd years which details every rotation region.

It is noted that if you take a rural region for your core rotations, your rural rotation will become an elective. 'Rural' in this case means places like Kingman, population around 30,000.

I'm a little surprised that I didn't get a go ahead to share these powerpoints because they would answer a huge amount of questions about AZCOM but I figure I need to go through the proper channels.


Actually, in retrospect, this is mainly for you, MN. I haven't seen too many others interested in what 3rd/4th year holds, but they might in the AZCOM thread. If you made up your mind, I'll probably stop pushing for this information to be posted. If you want me to carry on, please let me know, but I guess this thread might reach its end soon.

 

[raebear]

I'm very interested in learning more about 3rd and 4th year!!! At this point I am also holding acceptances to both these schools... I'm leaning towards AZCOM, but the prospect of having to move after two years is definitely making me nervous.

 

[Grey Wind]

I'm very interested in learning more about 3rd and 4th year!!! At this point I am also holding acceptances to both these schools... I'm leaning towards AZCOM, but the prospect of having to move after two years is definitely making me nervous.

me too! AZCOM 3/4 years are very important to my decision. My decision isnt down to these 2 schools, but AZCOM is in the mix for me for sure. Any additional insight would be fabulous.

 

[bcgans]

I'm still querying about that 3rd year powerpoint. They also posted a rotation overview powerpoint for the 2nd years which details every rotation region.

It is noted that if you take a rural region for your core rotations, your rural rotation will become an elective. 'Rural' in this case means places like Kingman, population around 30,000.

I'm a little surprised that I didn't get a go ahead to share these powerpoints because they would answer a huge amount of questions about AZCOM but I figure I need to go through the proper channels.


Actually, in retrospect, this is mainly for you, MN. I haven't seen too many others interested in what 3rd/4th year holds, but they might in the AZCOM thread. If you made up your mind, I'll probably stop pushing for this information to be posted. If you want me to carry on, please let me know, but I guess this thread might reach its end soon.

Flu-

I am very interested in these powerpoints you speak of. I am pretty dead set on AZCOM, but the more information I can get before I start the better. I am very interested in what rotations AZCOM has. Specifically, any University-affliated teaching ones, and what hospitals in Ohio (I am from Indiana and wouldnt mind going back to the midwest for a while). Also how the lottery system works. Thanks for helping us all out.

 

[Flushot]

I have posted the powerpoints/pdfs on the AZCOM 2009-2010. Please refer to that thread for those files.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8860176#post8860176

 

[raebear]

Thanks Flu!!!

 

[Runner69]

i'm an azcom-oriented viewer as well, so i'm glad there's been all this conversation and i'm on my way to check the '09/'10 azcom thread.

i know we touched on the issue of having 3rd year electives vs. 4th year electives, but is it an accepted idea that it might be wise to have some flexibility in 3rd year to already formulate some opinions and networking to work towards residency apps?

 

[SolanoDoc]

I actually contacted AZCOM about the clinical situation and got a straight answer, most rotations are in Phoenix, some in Southern Arizona, some up in the North of the State and a few in Ohio. Pretty much you will stay in one geographic area for the remainder of your clinical years. It works through a lottery system. Both schools will get you where you want to go. I have to admit that AZCOMs facilities were clearly better than those of the Touro schools. Glendale is also a fairly pleasant and peaceful suburb of Phoenix, so those of you from out of town will be living in a relatively pleasant safe area. I myself am going to Touro CA, but the area around the school itself, Vallejo, can be a rough area, I remember a three people got shot there in one day which is pretty bad considering its a small town but I am going to commute from Walnut Creek anyhow.

 

[MN premed]

I actually contacted AZCOM about the clinical situation and got a straight answer, most rotations are in Phoenix, some in Southern Arizona, some up in the North of the State and a few in Ohio. Pretty much you will stay in one geographic area for the remainder of your clinical years. It works through a lottery system. Both schools will get you where you want to go. I have to admit that AZCOMs facilities were clearly better than those of the Touro schools. Glendale is also a fairly pleasant and peaceful suburb of Phoenix, so those of you from out of town will be living in a relatively pleasant safe area. I myself am going to Touro CA, but the area around the school itself, Vallejo, can be a rough area, I remember a three people got shot there in one day which is pretty bad considering its a small town but I am going to commute from Walnut Creek anyhow.

Could you explain why you thought AZCOM's facilities were clearly better? I actually thought the other way, that Touro's (NV at least) were better. I do think the AZCOM campus is absolutely gorgeous though, if that's what you meant. Touro not so much.

 

[MN premed]

i'm an azcom-oriented viewer as well, so i'm glad there's been all this conversation and i'm on my way to check the '09/'10 azcom thread.

i know we touched on the issue of having 3rd year electives vs. 4th year electives, but is it an accepted idea that it might be wise to have some flexibility in 3rd year to already formulate some opinions and networking to work towards residency apps?

I don't think anyone ever really answered this... maybe it'd be a good idea to start a new thread about it? Maybe a different title would catch more students' attention!

 

[SolanoDoc]

Could you explain why you thought AZCOM's facilities were clearly better? I actually thought the other way, that Touro's (NV at least) were better. I do think the AZCOM campus is absolutely gorgeous though, if that's what you meant. Touro not so much.

I thought AZCOM had a very well laid out and modern campus built for academic purposes. From what I saw at Touro Nevada, it was one giant building. AZCOM is a pretty solid school from what I saw, from what I know, in the third and fourth years you could move away from Phoenix. I know for Touro NV, all four years are in the Las Vegas area. As I said before maybe you should take a second visit to both schools and talk to current students and maybe that will help you make up your mind but you will be fine with either.

I myself am seriously looking at AZCOM because I know that at Touro CA, there will be quite a bit of moving in the third and fourth years.

 

[1hotaartichoke]

Touro:
Has 2 elective rotations 3rd year and 2 elective rotations 4th year

AZCOM:
Has 0 elective rotations 3rd year and 5 elective rotations 4th year

Would it be an advantage to have electives (to do audition rotations) during the 3rd year? How early during the 4th year do you apply to residency programs? Wouldn't it help to have experience with their program before the actual application, so they may be more likely to interview you? (If you do well of course!)

You cannot do "audition" rotations during your 3rd year. It would be best for you to really get a year under your belt, and gain some confidence/tips/tricks for presenting.

ERAS opens early Sept (sept 2nd when I applied), but audition rotation months are July-December, maybe even Jan.

And, although it says TUNV only has 2 electives in your 4th year, the other rotations are flexibley worded enough that you have the opportunity to do 4-5 months of audition rotations in whatever field you wish to pursue. 😀

 

[ne0phyte]

hate to dig up an old thread, but I figured it'd be better than to re-post.

basically, I have the same dilemma between touro-nv and azcom, except I haven't gone to azcom for my interview yet. until reading this post, I was about to cancel my interview to save some money, since I was pretty happy
with touro-nv.

the only real consideration is strength of rotations and how lectures are conducted. I know the thread said that azcom doesn't record lectures, but do you at least get a copy of the slides, or notes?

and also, could someone point out how a rotation is "good" or "bad"?

 

[drdolot]

AZCOM all the way... heard its a better school... not from personal experience though

 

[MN premed]

I just wanted to go back to edit that Touro's Comlex 1 pass rates are actually above average as well, which I had listed as lower before. I'm not sure what the average score is yet.

Also, AZCOM has a quarter system, and I noticed that the winter quarter goes through Christmas break with a test right after break (so I'm not real sure it would be a very relaxing break!), while Touro has a normal semester system.

drdolot, online, it does sound like people think AZCOM's a better school. I'm starting to wonder though if that's just because people are assuming Touro NV is like the other 2 Touros.

 

[beckhunter116]

Have you really looked into both of their clinical years...with AZCOM expanding so much have they planned accordingly? A good number of inpatient experiences? That's where I would look to make a decision.

 

[redrok]

I was in a similar situation to you and ultimately decided on Touro-NV over several other places (including AZCOM).

I think you will find that each of the Touro schools are separate entities - I have read several opinions in different threads that generalize all the Touro schools into one and from my own research, this is the farthest from the truth. It was kind of funny, but on my interview day, the woman helping us probably mentioned about every 15 min that Touro-NV is totally separate from the other Touro schools in a variety of ways.

I was personally impressed by many things at Touro-NV. The facilities, faculty, students (spoke to about 5 or 6 at the school and also have a friend from my Uni already attending there and another friend from my hometown who has recently graduated from there - both love the place and couldn't say anything but good stuff), the rotations (I like that I don't have to move - being married made that a big consideration), COMLEX scores, and finally the housing market in Henderson will allow us to purchase a home rather than burning up money on rent.

Good luck on your choice - I think that med school will be a lot like all of undergrad in that the student actually takes away what they put into the experience - if you work hard, want to learn, and want to become a good physician, then you will no matter where you are.

 

[premed21]

I have another thing to add. Just looking around their websites and I see this.

Touro:
Has 2 elective rotations 3rd year and 2 elective rotations 4th year

AZCOM:
Has 0 elective rotations 3rd year and 5 elective rotations 4th year

Would it be an advantage to have electives (to do audition rotations) during the 3rd year? How early during the 4th year do you apply to residency programs? Wouldn't it help to have experience with their program before the actual application, so they may be more likely to interview you? (If you do well of course!)

Sorry to bump, but this question was not really answered and I was wondering if someone could please answer this? I think this is really important. Why doesn't AZCOM allow electives in the 3rd year? How are you supposed to apply for a residency or pick a specialty if you haven't had the chance to experience it? How early in the 4th year do you apply for residencies? Thanks in advance.

 

[Anicetus]

Sorry to bump, but this question was not really answered and I was wondering if someone could please answer this? I think this is really important. Why doesn't AZCOM allow electives in the 3rd year? How are you supposed to apply for a residency or pick a specialty if you haven't had the chance to experience it? How early in the 4th year do you apply for residencies? Thanks in advance.

I feel like a lot of us would like to know more insight on this comparison as well.

BUMP

 

[Elevencents]

Most schools that I have researched only allow a 4 week elective 3rd year, so there's really not much difference.