Bad Day for Research

[nemo123]

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So I've been working at a particular lab for two years (including summers) and I really wonder why I haven't quit yet. When I started working at my lab, the lab people would always talk about how my PI was weird, but I never really understood why they said that. Now I do.

So I've been working on an experiment that a postdoc conceptualized regarding a cell line and treatment with a ubiquitinating drug. The postdoc just wanted to see if using one drug had an effect on cell growth in a twelve well plate, but the PI thought it was a very useless experiment and wanted us to just get proteins from the cells in a six inch plate. So I was stuck in the middle trying to do both experiments for both people. The thing is I tried a drug concentration on the cells that was based off the twelve well plate experiment that we did. The cells didn't really die from the drug concentration that I used. So I told my PI this and he just blew up at me in his office and told me that I was wasting my time with this stupid experiment. He told me to get out of the office and told me to think of a better way of finishing the experiment. Ugh, I just wanted to pack my bags up and leave. I was simply telling him what I observed, and especially since this wasn't an experiment that I conceptualized, why should I have taken the blame for it? On top of that, the PI came into the lab afterwards and was talking happily to the postdoc I work with as if nothing happened.

My PI is generally a good person, but he has weird moments and always misunderstands what I say to him. 😡 Does anyone else have experiences like this?

 

[CodeBlu]

All the time... in my old lab. Hence my departure. New PI is awesome.

 

[Bravetown]

Ya sounds like your PI sucks, but dude everyone takes **** from their boss and you are definitely going to get dumped on in medicine even if (especially if) it's not your fault are you going to quit then? Unless your PI blows up on you on a daily basis maybe treat this as a isolated case and put it behind you, or seek greener pastures.

 

[235788]

You've done your time. Secure the solid LOR and move on your merry way. Don't leave on bad terms!

 

[gobroncos123]

2 years and this is the first time the PI has yelled at you? Sounds like a nice guy to me...

I get into arguments all the time with my PI and a lot of new ideas actually come from our arguments. You need to offer your thoughts, even if he bashes you for them--you will learn a lot more this way. Thick skin is a necessity in research.

 

[ponyo]

All the time... in my old lab. Hence my departure. New PI is awesome.

Same here. My old boss used to break down and cry for no apparent reason.

New boss is kind of creepy though... maybe it's just a nerd thing

 

[CodeBlu]

Same here. My old boss used to break down and cry for no apparent reason.

New boss is kind of creepy though... maybe it's just a nerd thing

Nerds aren't necessarily creepy...

Just weird.

 

[ponyo]

Nerds aren't necessarily creepy...

Just weird.

He has... personal space issues...

But hey at least he smells good :/

 

[Eric01]

He has... personal space issues...

But hey at least he smells good :/

That annoys the crap out of me. Especially if you do the thing where you step back during a conversation and they step towards you.

My advice would be if he smells nice then he's probably very sensitive to smells (hence putting so much effort into his own), so just make an effort to smell bad and that should add 1-2 inches of distance. Which can be all the world of difference from not having to breathe the same air to not feeling violated.

 

[nemo123]

2 years and this is the first time the PI has yelled at you? Sounds like a nice guy to me...

I get into arguments all the time with my PI and a lot of new ideas actually come from our arguments. You need to offer your thoughts, even if he bashes you for them--you will learn a lot more this way. Thick skin is a necessity in research.

No, it's not. But the thing is this was really overboard. He embarrassed me right in front of the student I'm teaching. If this was an experiment he actually cared about, he would not have reacted that way. On top of that, he almost always misunderstands what I tell him.

Currently, I'm working on two projects-- one related to the project that I talked about above and another one on a leukemia project. For some reason whenever I talk about the leukemia project, he gets all happy and is really interested in what I have to say and when I talk about this project, he gets mad and questions what I'm doing.

 

[aSagacious]

Currently, I'm working on two projects-- one related to the project that I talked about above and another one on a leukemia project. For some reason whenever I talk about the leukemia project, he gets all happy and is really interested in what I have to say and when I talk about this project, he gets mad and questions what I'm doing.

Though I certainly empathize with your situation (I've had many a nutty PI), in his defense it is his grant money so he is justified in criticizing projects/undertakings that he doesn't care for.

 

[nemo123]

Though I certainly empathize with your situation (I've had many a nutty PI), in his defense it is his grant money so he is justified in criticizing projects/undertakings that he doesn't care for.

:/ Exactly. I'm not the one who conceptualized this particular experiment, yet I got all the blame for the results we got. I'm simply doing all the dirty work for it.

 

[aSagacious]

:/ Exactly. I'm not the one who conceptualized this particular experiment, yet I got all the blame for the results we got. I'm simply doing all the dirty work for it.

I wouldn't take it personally. Perhaps he's trying to play nice with the postdoc and is using you as a middleman so he doesn't have to lecture the postdoc directly.

 

[ponyo]

My advice would be if he smells nice then he's probably very sensitive to smells (hence putting so much effort into his own), so just make an effort to smell bad and that should add 1-2 inches of distance. Which can be all the world of difference from not having to breathe the same air to not feeling violated.

So far eating curry or kimchi fried rice haven't helped...

I wouldn't take it personally. Perhaps he's trying to play nice with the postdoc and is using you as a middleman so he doesn't have to lecture the postdoc directly.

This is actually a really reasonable explanation

 

[nemo123]

I wouldn't take it personally. Perhaps he's trying to play nice with the postdoc and is using you as a middleman so he doesn't have to lecture the postdoc directly.

The interesting thing is he annoys the postdoc pretty much every other day with what he tells the postdoc. Yeah, I don't know if it's me just being too sensitive, but the reaction he gave me today was way too much.Why hound the poor undergraduate who's just doing what she's told? During this whole experiment, I felt like I was stuck in the middle trying to please both the postdoc and my PI. Ugh I just want to trash the experiment right now because it's a waste of my time and my energy.

Anyways, thank goodness my name is on both papers. Otherwise, I would left a long time ago. My PI and I just don't click (like he clicks with anybody). And then he tells me that I don't call him enough on weekends about experiments, results, and ideas. Well if he wasn't so two faced and actually spoke in the same terms as me, then yeah I would talk to him more!

 

[aSagacious]

The interesting thing is he annoys the postdoc pretty much every other day with what he tells the postdoc...My PI and I just don't click (like he clicks with anybody).

Egocentrism is a powerful motivator. In his head I'm sure he gets along with everyone wonderfully and everyone respects him, and this dictates his actions accordingly.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

The interesting thing is he annoys the postdoc pretty much every other day with what he tells the postdoc. Yeah, I don't know if it's me just being too sensitive, but the reaction he gave me today was way too much.Why hound the poor undergraduate who's just doing what she's told? During this whole experiment, I felt like I was stuck in the middle trying to please both the postdoc and my PI. Ugh I just want to trash the experiment right now because it's a waste of my time and my energy.

Anyways, thank goodness my name is on both papers. Otherwise, I would left a long time ago. My PI and I just don't click (like he clicks with anybody). And then he tells me that I don't call him enough on weekends about experiments, results, and ideas. Well if he wasn't so two faced and actually spoke in the same terms as me, then yeah I would talk to him more!

Welcome to the world of academia. We hope you enjoy your stay.

Seriously though, you need to have a thick skin in academia (and in many other jobs, I'd imagine). Getting criticized/crapped on is a pretty common occurrence. Have you tried getting your post-doc and PI together and figuring out a course of action rather than trying to please two people who have different ideas on where to take the project? That alone would avoid a lot of conflict.

 

[nemo123]

Welcome to the world of academia. We hope you enjoy your stay.

Seriously though, you need to have a thick skin in academia (and in many other jobs, I'd imagine). Getting criticized/crapped on is a pretty common occurrence. Have you tried getting your post-doc and PI together and figuring out a course of action rather than trying to please two people who have different ideas on where to take the project? That alone would avoid a lot of conflict.

Yeah we have gotten together and talked, but for some reason, my PI still says different things from the postdoc, so I have no clue what to do.

 

[kpcrew]

So far eating curry or kimchi fried rice haven't helped...



This is actually a really reasonable explanation

oh god kimchi fried rice. so good, i think im gonna cook some now.

but yea op, you've been there for long enough. as long as you had a good learning experience and have something cool to talk about, you should be fine.

 

[ucsfstudents]

Some PIs are emotionally unstable, but that's in any field. Sometimes it's better to find a new lab than to stay with a PI you do not get along with.

 

[DavetheMD]

Egocentrism is a powerful motivator. In his head I'm sure he gets along with everyone wonderfully and everyone respects him, and this dictates his actions accordingly.

Indeed. Your PI has a reputation to uphold with other post docs who he will likely have a long career with. However, undergraduates come and go and are the bottom rung of the research ladder. It behooves him to maintain a solid rapport with people he may potentially publish with.

 

[nemo123]

Indeed. Your PI has a reputation to uphold with other post docs who he will likely have a long career with. However, undergraduates come and go and are the bottom rung of the research ladder. It behooves him to maintain a solid rapport with people he may potentially publish with.

Not exactly. The postdocs in my lab stay only about 1-2 years (because they are annoyed by him so much). I've actually outlasted 3 postdocs in my lab and I've seen probably 6-7 college grads come and go. In fact, the shortest I saw a postdoc stay in my lab was 6 months.

I have definitely learned a lot in my current lab, but I definitely want to move on because I really don't think I have much to learn anymore there and I am sick of my PI. I was not planning on going back this summer, but I didn't get into any of my summer programs, so I was stuck. Hopefully next year will be better. 🙁

 

[aSagacious]

Not exactly. The postdocs in my lab stay only about 1-2 years (because they are annoyed by him so much). I've actually outlasted 3 postdocs in my lab and I've seen probably 6-7 college grads come and go.

If nothing else, then, this experience has been a good test of your patience. You should be all set for residency. 😎

 

[DavetheMD]

Not exactly. The postdocs in my lab stay only about 1-2 years (because they are annoyed by him so much). I've actually outlasted 3 postdocs in my lab and I've seen probably 6-7 college grads come and go. In fact, the shortest I saw a postdoc stay in my lab was 6 months.

I have definitely learned a lot in my current lab, but I definitely want to move on because I really don't think I have much to learn anymore there and I am sick of my PI. I was not planning on going back this summer, but I didn't get into any of my summer programs, so I was stuck. Hopefully next year will be better. 🙁

Have you had the opportunity to get published? If so, I would try to part as amiably as possible. Perhaps you could find another premed to take your spot, and that should benefit you. Then you can tackle other EC's. 2 years of research is more than sufficient.

 

[nemo123]

Have you had the opportunity to get published? If so, I would try to part as amiably as possible. Perhaps you could find another premed to take your spot, and that should benefit you. Then you can tackle other EC's. 2 years of research is more than sufficient.

As much as my PI annoys the hell out of me sometimes, he is a decent guy with just some personality issues. My name is actually on both papers and they're actually starting to write the papers with my names on it as the second author for both. 👍 And I've presented two posters to boot (though only at university wide conferences).

The thing is this is actually my high school research lab and I've been going back to it every summer (and I hate my undergrad lab because they think that undergrads can't do anything so they just force me to make solutions and clean stuff). So I'm not sure if I should quit research now even if I have a couple of years under my belt... But yeah, this summer seriously has to be my last summer at this lab.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Not exactly. The postdocs in my lab stay only about 1-2 years (because they are annoyed by him so much). I've actually outlasted 3 postdocs in my lab and I've seen probably 6-7 college grads come and go. In fact, the shortest I saw a postdoc stay in my lab was 6 months.

I could be wrong, but it seems like 2-3 years in a lab is the norm for post-docs, at least in the field I do research in. I don't know if I'd say that a 2-year stint as a post-doc is bad if he/she was productive.

Have you had the opportunity to get published? If so, I would try to part as amiably as possible. Perhaps you could find another premed to take your spot, and that should benefit you. Then you can tackle other EC's. 2 years of research is more than sufficient.

As much as my PI annoys the hell out of me sometimes, he is a decent guy with just some personality issues. My name is actually on both papers and they're actually starting to write the papers with my names on it as the second author for both. 👍 And I've presented two posters to boot (though only at university wide conferences).

The thing is this is actually my high school research lab and I've been going back to it every summer (and I hate my undergrad lab because they think that undergrads can't do anything so they just force me to make solutions and clean stuff). So I'm not sure if I should quit research now even if I have a couple of years under my belt... But yeah, this summer seriously has to be my last summer at this lab.

If you do decide to leave the lab, absolutely make sure to end it on good terms with the PI. You're going to need his LoR. If you're going to list research on AMCAS and don't have a letter from the PI, especially when you worked in his lab for 2 years, it could be a red flag. You also don't want to jeopardize your authorship on the potential papers by leaving on bad terms.

 

[nemo123]

I could be wrong, but it seems like 2-3 years in a lab is the norm for post-docs, at least in the field I do research in. I don't know if I'd say that a 2-year stint as a post-doc is bad if he/she was productive.


If you do decide to leave the lab, absolutely make sure to end it on good terms with the PI. You're going to need his LoR. If you're going to list research on AMCAS and don't have a letter from the PI, especially when you worked in his lab for 2 years, it could be a red flag. You also don't want to jeopardize your authorship on the potential papers by leaving on bad terms.

Yeah, I definitely am going to try to leave on good terms because I'll never know if I need to come back to this lab (hopefully never again). But I won't be getting a letter from my PI. I'll be getting one from the postdoc I work with instead because my PI writes crappy as hell letters.

Anyways, postdocs do actually only stay for 2-3 years, but the postdocs in my lab don't always decide to leave because they know they usually have a hard time finding someone who will hire them apparently. So they just bicker about working with my PI in the meantime.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Yeah, I definitely am going to try to leave on good terms because I'll never know if I need to come back to this lab (hopefully never again). But I won't be getting a letter from my PI. I'll be getting one from the postdoc I work with instead because my PI writes crappy as hell letters.

I would recommend getting the PI to co-sign it then (or even have the post-doc write it and have only the PI sign it, if they're okay with it). Letter signed by PI >>> post-doc, IMHO. Best of luck!

 

[nemo123]

I would recommend getting the PI to co-sign it then (or even have the post-doc write it and have only the PI sign it, if they're okay with it). Letter signed by PI >>> post-doc, IMHO. Best of luck!

My PI probably would not agree to do that. Anyways, what is LizzyM's take on this? Does anyone know?