Miss155

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As someone who plans to apply this season which are the bad dermatology programs I should stay away from or not apply. Thanks.
 

sore eye asses

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you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread.
 

reno911

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you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread.
I would, but I don't know of any that are so bad that you should not apply. Getting into derm is so tough that for at least 2/3 of the applicant pool, if you had guaranteed acceptance to the consensus worst program (whatever that is), you should take it rather than taking your chances with the match.

If someone made that offer to me when I was applying, I would have been too stupid to take it. But now I know that if such an offer were made, I should take it in a heartbeat.
 

sore eye asses

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I would, but I don't know of any that are so bad that you should not apply. Getting into derm is so tough that for at least 2/3 of the applicant pool, if you had guaranteed acceptance to the consensus worst program (whatever that is), you should take it rather than taking your chances with the match.

If someone made that offer to me when I was applying, I would have been too stupid to take it. But now I know that if such an offer were made, I should take it in a heartbeat.
go ahead then, reno. what are some bad derm programs? just in case your and my threshold for applying differs.
 

kralwok

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i miss the old dermboard...
(not that there really are any BAD programs but would love to see what others have to say)
 

starbuckscoffee

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Perhaps if we rephrase this and ask instead: which programs did you dislike on the interview trail, and why?
 

reno911

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go ahead then, reno. what are some bad derm programs? just in case your and my threshold for applying differs.

Perhaps you didn't understand my post. There are no programs so weak that you shouldn't apply. Hence there are no "bad derm programs" in that sense, which is what OP was asking.

If you want to know what programs I think are weak, it's difficult for me to give a long list since I've been out of academia for a while. But as an example, one program I know to be weak is Wright State. But it's still good enough that if you go there you can learn enough to be a decent dermatologist.

If I think of some more, I'll list them, but my information is slightly dated.
 

sore eye asses

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Perhaps if we rephrase this and ask instead: which programs did you dislike on the interview trail, and why?
ok, i'll kick it off. I didn't like puerto rico because it was just too tropical and islandish. I didn't like harvard because it wasn't yale. I didn't like Miami because everyone was tanner and better looking than me and it gave me a complex. I didn't like tulane because my cousin is a hurricane, and he hates tulane so i do too because i stand by my family members. I hated upenn because everyone was smarter than me and published way more than I do. All the schools in texas sucked because they were in texas. utah was dumb because they promised me that joseph smith would be there for interview day but he was too busy looking into his stovepipe hat to leave the house. there were a bunch of other programs that I disliked for a variety of valid reasons, but i want to give others a crack at talking crap about programs anonymously so that we can warn next years applicants, and that way they'll save money on eras.
 

sore eye asses

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Perhaps you didn't understand my post. There are no programs so weak that you shouldn't apply. Hence there are no "bad derm programs" in that sense, which is what OP was asking.

If you want to know what programs I think are weak, it's difficult for me to give a long list since I've been out of academia for a while. But as an example, one program I know to be weak is Wright State. But it's still good enough that if you go there you can learn enough to be a decent dermatologist.

If I think of some more, I'll list them, but my information is slightly dated.
No, I understood it. The OP asked specifically which derm programs were bad, to which i replied it would be uncouth and pointless to name said programs, to which you replied that you would reveal these programs, but in your judgement, none is bad enough (except wright state) to out in this forum.

Lot's of folks say the derm community is very small, and that everybody talks. I just wonder what might be gained from talking negatively about programs under the guise of anonymity. I think if the OP really wants to know the "bad programs," perhaps she should read some of the older posts on this site, find whom she identifies with, and then ask them this question in a PM.
 

reno911

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No, I understood it. The OP asked specifically which derm programs were bad, to which i replied it would be uncouth and pointless to name said programs, to which you replied that you would reveal these programs, but in your judgement, none is bad enough (except wright state) to out in this forum.

Lot's of folks say the derm community is very small, and that everybody talks. I just wonder what might be gained from talking negatively about programs under the guise of anonymity. I think if the OP really wants to know the "bad programs," perhaps she should read some of the older posts on this site, find whom she identifies with, and then ask them this question in a PM.
You really didn't understand it at all. You're just making up stuff now. Since I've got some time, let me break this down for you.

1. OP clearly asked which programs are "bad dermatology programs I should stay away from or not apply".

2. Then you said "you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread. ". Now you're saying that from that sentence the reader is supposed to interpret what you really meant as "it would be uncouth and pointless to name said programs," Maybe that's what you meant, but I can't read your mind.

3. Then I said there are no programs that are not bad enough not to apply to. I did not say what you think which was: "to which you replied that you would reveal these programs, but in your judgement, none is bad enough (except wright state) to out in this forum".

The reason I didn't mention any is because I didn't think there were any that met the criteria specified by the OP. It's has nothing to do with "outing them in this forum". I don't know where you got that from. This type of forum is exactly the type of place this stuff should be discussed.

Furthermore, I explicitly stated that Wright State was NOT bad enough to not apply to, instead of what you interpreted which was "none is bad enough (except wright state)".

4. Then, just to make sure you weren't confused, I went ahead and named a program I thought was weak to be sure that you understood that my problem was not naming a program, but rather that there were no programs that met the OP's criteria. Clearly, my effort was wasted.

Hope that was simple enough for you.
 

MOHS_01

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Even the worst program in the nation will afford you the opportunity to become a BC dermatologist. Unless you worry more about the name on the certificate than obtaining a certificate, I submit that you should consider any program that you are fortunate enough to get an interview with.
 

werd

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gotta love banter semantics :).

anyway, people generally won't name programs they dislike due to the fact that their identity might be discerned and the comment traced back to them. probably the best source for this info is residents at your program or you program director (depending on the program director).
 

sore eye asses

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You really didn't understand it at all. You're just making up stuff now. Since I've got some time, let me break this down for you.

1. OP clearly asked which programs are "bad dermatology programs I should stay away from or not apply".

2. Then you said "you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread. ". Now you're saying that from that sentence the reader is supposed to interpret what you really meant as "it would be uncouth and pointless to name said programs," Maybe that's what you meant, but I can't read your mind.

3. Then I said there are no programs that are not bad enough not to apply to. I did not say what you think which was: "to which you replied that you would reveal these programs, but in your judgement, none is bad enough (except wright state) to out in this forum".

The reason I didn't mention any is because I didn't think there were any that met the criteria specified by the OP. It's has nothing to do with "outing them in this forum". I don't know where you got that from. This type of forum is exactly the type of place this stuff should be discussed.

Furthermore, I explicitly stated that Wright State was NOT bad enough to not apply to, instead of what you interpreted which was "none is bad enough (except wright state)".

4. Then, just to make sure you weren't confused, I went ahead and named a program I thought was weak to be sure that you understood that my problem was not naming a program, but rather that there were no programs that met the OP's criteria. Clearly, my effort was wasted.

Hope that was simple enough for you.
I got a kick out your gratuitous jab at me after your otherwise intelligent response.

At its heart, what we have here is a fundamental disagreement on whether sdn is the right forum for openly discussing bad/weak programs. I reason it's unwise to do so, especially if you are a student or resident. You argue that "this type of forum is exactly the type of place this stuff should be discussed." But you are an enigma, because besides suggesting that this stuff should be discussed, you also say there's no point, and that a minimum 2/3 of the applicant pool should leap at an opportunity to go to the worst program in the country should it be offered. This information isn't especially helpful. It just helps perpetuate the myth that derm is impossibly hard to get, when in reality, 60% of those who apply get in.

Taking your comments point by point:

1.) I agree

2.) I took some liberties with the whole "uncouth" comment, but you're a smart guy/gal, so you must've guessed what I was getting at with my original post.

3.) Covered above

4.) So, just to be clear, your perception is that there are no programs that meet the OPs criteria, and you believe that this type of forum is exactly the type of place for the OPs original question (which I refute), and when pressed you say that Wright state is weak, but still passable, and you did this to alleviate my confusion? Now, I am confused.

 

reno911

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4.) So, just to be clear, your perception is that there are no programs that meet the OPs criteria, and you believe that this type of forum is exactly the type of place for the OPs original question (which I refute), and when pressed you say that Wright state is weak, but still passable, and you did this to alleviate my confusion? Now, I am confused.
Sorry about the jab at the end. Probably uncalled for.

Anyway, I think you get where I'm coming from now. I just want to clear up #4 for you. When I didn't name anyone originally I didn't want you to think that the reason why was because I was afraid or because it was improper in any way. The reason why is because no programs met the criteria set forth by the OP.

To make it absolutely clear that I didn't have a problem "naming names", I gave the name of a program that I thought was weak so you could be sure that I wasn't hiding behind some sort of excuse.

Now here's some more misrepresentations you've made of what I said that I want to clear up:

1. The first thing that I want to clear up is that I never said that there was "no point" (as you said I said in your last post) in discussing this stuff. This sort of stuff is very important when you're making your rank list. However, these considerations have no place when deciding where to apply. That is what the OP asked.

2. Yet another thing I want to clear up is that getting into derm is not impossibly hard. I never meant to suggest otherwise. I firmly believe that anyone who wants it should try.

The reason why I would take a guaranteed spot in the worst program vs taking my chances in the match is not because derm is "impossibly hard to get". It is because of the following:

-The difference in the quality of training between the best program and the worst program is not that great. By and large derm residency is what you make of it. If you're smart and you apply yourself, you will become a good dermatologist no matter how bad your residency program is. Conversely, if you're stupid and lazy, then even being in the best program will not help you. Because of this, taking the guarantee is the smart choice.

-If you're set on doing derm and you are going to keep trying until you get it, the harm you do to yourself by not matching is so much greater than the benefit you would gain by potentially matching at a better program. If you just consider it from an income standpoint, you're costing yourself at least $200K (this is a conservative estimate and when you consider how much that will turn into if you invested it, it is even more), if your career is delayed by only one year. There no way that a chance at matching at a better program is worth that much. And that's not the only cost of not matching. There is stress, disruption to your life, etc.

This time, no snide remark to conclude.
 
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sore eye asses

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Sorry about the jab at the end. Probably uncalled for.

Anyway, I think you get where I'm coming from now. I just want to clear up #4 for you. When I didn't name anyone originally I didn't want you to think that the reason why was because I was afraid or because it was improper in any way. The reason why is because no programs met the criteria set forth by the OP.

To make it absolutely clear that I didn't have a problem "naming names", I gave the name of a program that I thought was weak so you could be sure that I wasn't hiding behind some sort of excuse.

Now here's some more misrepresentations you've made of what I said that I want to clear up:

1. The first thing that I want to clear up is that I never said that there was "no point" (as you said I said in your last post) in discussing this stuff. This sort of stuff is very important when you're making your rank list. However, these considerations have no place when deciding where to apply. That is what the OP asked.

2. Yet another thing I want to clear up is that getting into derm is not impossibly hard. I never meant to suggest otherwise. I firmly believe that anyone who wants it should try.

The reason why I would take a guaranteed spot in the worst program vs taking my chances in the match is not because derm is "impossibly hard to get". It is because of the following:

-The difference in the quality of training between the best program and the worst program is not that great. By and large derm residency is what you make of it. If you're smart and you apply yourself, you will become a good dermatologist no matter how bad your residency program is. Conversely, if you're stupid and lazy, then even being in the best program will not help you. Because of this, taking the guarantee is the smart choice.

-If you're set on doing derm and you are going to keep trying until you get it, the harm you do to yourself by not matching is so much greater than the benefit you would gain by potentially matching at a better program. If you just consider it from an income standpoint, you're costing yourself at least $200K (this is a conservative estimate and when you consider how much that will turn into if you invested it, it is even more), if your career is delayed by only one year. There no way that a chance at matching at a better program is worth that much. And that's not the only cost of not matching. There is stress, disruption to your life, etc.

This time, no snide remark to conclude.
thanks for your civility. regarding number 2, that's a heck of a subtext. were we meant to infer that from the original statement? regarding number 1, can you elaborate on why this info is important for ranking and not applying? I mean, why apply at all to a "bad" program? why waste the time and expense of interviewing there? It seems this information would have more value in the application phase than in the ranking phase, which I assume was the point of the OPs post.

I just think such information should/can be gleaned outside of a public forum, which was the point of my (snide) original response.
 

reno911

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can you elaborate on why this info is important for ranking and not applying? I mean, why apply at all to a "bad" program?
It's not important for applying because if you're serious about derm you should apply to EVERY program. As mentioned above, getting a spot in the worst program is so much better than not matching, that you should do everything you can to avoid not matching. Step one in that process is applying everywhere.

The reason why it is important for the rank list phase is that now you've got things narrowed down to programs that might take you. You should rank every single one of them. However, when deciding which ones to rank higher and which ones to rank lower, having a frank discussion of which programs are strong and which programs are weak is appropriate. If a program is weak, it should be lower on your rank list (but it should still be on your list).

There's no reason you shouldn't try to match into the best program possible. But that consideration takes a back seat to simply matching somewhere.

That's why when considering where to apply, whether a program is strong or weak is unimportant, while at the same time it is important when you are ordering your rank list.
 

reno911

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In reading some of these responses, it seems that I'm taking some knowledge for granted. This is something that seems super obvious to me now, but I didn't do it when I was applying for derm, so I guess others at that point in their lives may not realize it.

This should be obvious, but nevertheless here's the reno911 algorithm for applying for derm to maximize your success rate to the fullest extent.

1. Apply to every program. I don't care if it's non ERAS or in Canada or whatever. If it will lead to ABD certification, you should apply to it.

2. Go to every interview you possibly can. Conflicting dates is the only excuse to miss one. Cost should not be an issue. Max out your credit cards, borrow from family, stay in cheap hotels, and do whatever it takes. Not matching at all will be much more expensive.

3. Rank every program you interview at. Even the worst option is better than not matching. The only time to consider whether a program is strong or weak is when you are deciding where on your rank list they should go.
 

DermMatch

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Agreed with reno911 (great show, by the way) on all points.

If you don't rank all the programs you interviewed at, and you fail to match, then you look completely wacko if you apply again -- you wouldn't even be able to rely on the "jewel that fell through the cracks" argument that many second-time applicants use.

I'd doubt that the original programs you interviewed at which you considered "good" would invite you back -- that frequently never happens to second-time applicants in general, because the programs you ranked highly, where you didn't match at, didn't want you in the first place.

Then the "bad" programs you didn't rank wouldn't want you back, because if they had ranked you highly, they'd figure out you didn't rank them.

Regarding outing "bad" programs:

Residents can really only comment on their own programs. Any opinions about other places is really only based on gossip, unless info is gleaned from reliable, close friends who trained there.

I'd think that people in the generally anonymous world of private practice wouldn't mind posting. I plan to do that, once safely graduated. I might kill off this username and post under a different one. The View... from Private Practice.
 

sore eye asses

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In reading some of these responses, it seems that I'm taking some knowledge for granted. This is something that seems super obvious to me now, but I didn't do it when I was applying for derm, so I guess others at that point in their lives may not realize it.

This should be obvious, but nevertheless here's the reno911 algorithm for applying for derm to maximize your success rate to the fullest extent.

1. Apply to every program. I don't care if it's non ERAS or in Canada or whatever. If it will lead to ABD certification, you should apply to it.

2. Go to every interview you possibly can. Conflicting dates is the only excuse to miss one. Cost should not be an issue. Max out your credit cards, borrow from family, stay in cheap hotels, and do whatever it takes. Not matching at all will be much more expensive.

3. Rank every program you interview at. Even the worst option is better than not matching. The only time to consider whether a program is strong or weak is when you are deciding where on your rank list they should go.
I think the OP asked her initial question because she wanted to avoid the expense/time of applying to programs that she would be unhappy attending. If she were to heed your advice, and eventually match into one of these "bad" programs, then she would probably lament her decision to apply to all programs (sort of what happened to derm155, which is a peculiar coincidence when considered in light of the OPs name). That said, I agree with your sentiment that applicants should apply to all programs. The overwhelming majority will be pleased with the result because they will have matched derm.

My point all along has been that it's bad form to discuss "bad" programs in a public forum (whether it's to help decide where you will apply or build your rank list). I think it's what made yuku crap, and I feel it'd be a shame if it happened here on sdn.

everything else you've said I think is helpful and i do not disagree.
 

sore eye asses

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Then the "bad" programs you didn't rank wouldn't want you back, because if they had ranked you highly, they'd figure out you didn't rank them.
This is quite a stretch, and I bet it's exceedingly rare (<1% of total applicants). In order for this to happen, an applicant would have to decide that after spending hundreds of dollars to travel to a program and interview, that it was so bad they cannot possibly see themselves there for 3 years. Meanwhile, this reviled program would have to have a completely different impression of the applicant, ranking them so high that they match into one of their few spots (the ratio at most programs seemed like 10-15:1 interviewees/spot).
 

reno911

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My point all along has been that it's bad form to discuss "bad" programs in a public forum (whether it's to help decide where you will apply or build your rank list). I think it's what made yuku crap, and I feel it'd be a shame if it happened here on sdn.
If the reason why you think it's bad is because someone will "expose" you, I think you're being a little paranoid. I know the derm community is small, but I can tell you that based on my prior experience as a faculty member at a academic derm department, the chance of someone finding out about something you say on here and then caring enough to do anything about it is low. But it's not zero, so if you want to be afraid of it, then I guess it's understandable.

If you think it's "bad form" and would make this board "crap", which I'm interpreting to mean something else entirely, then that's just silly. The exchange of this sort of information is always a good thing, and some criticisms of programs might be inaccurate. But that problem is best solved by encouraging more information exchange (i.e., people who think the criticisms are unfair should post arguments to the contrary), rather than discouraging it entirely.
 

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To the OP...apply everywhere that you think you would need to apply to...don't try to predict which programs you will like or dislike. Truth is that there are too many factors and you have no idea who your co-residents are going to be and how you will mesh with them.

As far as becoming a good dermatologist...it's all on the individual. You push yourself harder and have that inner fire, and you'll become a better dermatologist. Don't think that a school will somehow inject the passion and the drive into you...unless you live in the Matrix. I don't care whether it does or does not have a great reputation...reputations can be assumed on research funding and on the undergraduate institution (sadly) that align with the program. It's the individual at the end of the day.


Just because you went to a "top-tier" won't make you great and just because you went to a "lower-tier" doesn't mean that you can't be a great dermatologist. I think too many people pin too much on the school instead of holding individuals accountable. It's easier to focus on schools and departments but you fall into the trap of generalizing.
 

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What about the programs with only 1 spot? I think for most people those are considered less favorable.
 

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What about the programs with only 1 spot? I think for most people those are considered less favorable.
I don't know if these programs are "bad." However, I did not apply to the majority of 1- and 2- spot programs. And in general more residents=more money=less chance of program folding.
 

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To the OP...apply everywhere that you think you would need to apply to...don't try to predict which programs you will like or dislike. Truth is that there are too many factors and you have no idea who your co-residents are going to be and how you will mesh with them.

As far as becoming a good dermatologist...it's all on the individual. You push yourself harder and have that inner fire, and you'll become a better dermatologist. Don't think that a school will somehow inject the passion and the drive into you...unless you live in the Matrix. I don't care whether it does or does not have a great reputation...reputations can be assumed on research funding and on the undergraduate institution (sadly) that align with the program. It's the individual at the end of the day.


Just because you went to a "top-tier" won't make you great and just because you went to a "lower-tier" doesn't mean that you can't be a great dermatologist. I think too many people pin too much on the school instead of holding individuals accountable. It's easier to focus on schools and departments but you fall into the trap of generalizing.
I somewhat disagree- it's not "all" on the individual as you say.

While I agree that if you are lazy and stupid, the best program still won't save you there ARE differences in programs. No matter how much you study, if you aren't exposed to certain clinical scenerios (repeatedly) you won't become good at certain things. While you can become a competent dermatologist at probably the vast majority of programs by working hard, memorizing bolognia WILL NOT make you a good dermatologist... thus, becoming a great dermatologist is easier at certain programs.
 

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I think a lot of this discussion is too theoretical.

There are applicants out there who are clearly "top tier" and won't have to worry about failing to match. In which case, I'd tell you congratulations, and go out and apply to programs that have a "good name" or are in desirable locations. And going out on the interview trail will allow you to narrow which ones you think are good and which ones you think are lacking.

Then there's the other side of the equation with applicants not being sure if they'll match or not (and believe me, I was firmly in this camp). In which case, I would agree with the others who tell you there's no such thing as a bad program. Apply to all, apply widely, and only if you truly truly cannot see yourself at that program, would I recommend not ranking a program you were granted an interview at.
 

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1. Apply to every program. I don't care if it's non ERAS or in Canada or whatever. If it will lead to ABD certification, you should apply to it.

Are there any programs outside of the USA that are acceptable for US board certification?
 

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I somewhat disagree- it's not "all" on the individual as you say.

While I agree that if you are lazy and stupid, the best program still won't save you there ARE differences in programs. No matter how much you study, if you aren't exposed to certain clinical scenerios (repeatedly) you won't become good at certain things. While you can become a competent dermatologist at probably the vast majority of programs by working hard, memorizing bolognia WILL NOT make you a good dermatologist... thus, becoming a great dermatologist is easier at certain programs.
Asmallchild is right in that we can wax theory all day on this so I'll be more specific.

Doctalaughs, the beauty is that you are entitled to your opinion and that's what's great about this forum. But who said anything about "stupid" people? I don't know one "stupid" person among current dermies. And when did I say anything about "memorizing Bolognia" to become a good dermatologist? Looks like you are making up your own scenarios to create a good argument for yourself.

A lot of medicine is self-directed learning. Clinical scenarios are only as good as your curiosity and inquisition. But dermatology goes beyond that. What about therapies? What about topical formulations and the inactive ingredients? How can a 0.5% topical cream be stronger than a 2% topical cream ("inactive" ingredients make all the difference and drug companies know this)? What about FDA testing policies and are they valid to how derm products are used (sunscreens for example)? There is a lot of stuff that are essential to being a good/great dermatologist and you may not ever see them in your residency. Of course, each residency has a uniqe flavor. However, all the residencies are going to give you the tools to understand the language of derm. Small vs. big residencies will come down to personal preference and how the match plays out for you. The separation on whether you become a great dermatologist depends on your effort when no one is looking and you are doing it for yourself.
 

sore eye asses

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I retract my last post. I'm tired of debating this issue. Truth be told, I'd rather get back to my silly posts (they come much more naturally).

see ya all in a month after i finish my ICU rotation from hell.
 
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doctalaughs

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Asmallchild is right in that we can wax theory all day on this so I'll be more specific.

Doctalaughs, the beauty is that you are entitled to your opinion and that's what's great about this forum. But who said anything about "stupid" people? I don't know one "stupid" person among current dermies. And when did I say anything about "memorizing Bolognia" to become a good dermatologist? Looks like you are making up your own scenarios to create a good argument for yourself.

A lot of medicine is self-directed learning. Clinical scenarios are only as good as your curiosity and inquisition. But dermatology goes beyond that. What about therapies? What about topical formulations and the inactive ingredients? How can a 0.5% topical cream be stronger than a 2% topical cream ("inactive" ingredients make all the difference and drug companies know this)? What about FDA testing policies and are they valid to how derm products are used (sunscreens for example)? There is a lot of stuff that are essential to being a good/great dermatologist and you may not ever see them in your residency. Of course, each residency has a uniqe flavor. However, all the residencies are going to give you the tools to understand the language of derm. Small vs. big residencies will come down to personal preference and how the match plays out for you. The separation on whether you become a great dermatologist depends on your effort when no one is looking and you are doing it for yourself.
True we can each have our own opinion.

In regards to the stupid and lazy I was refering to reno's prior statement, not yours ("-The difference in the quality of training between the best program and the worst program is not that great. .... if you're stupid and lazy, then even being in the best program will not help you. Because of this, taking the guarantee is the smart choice.") which I actually agree with.

I 100% agree that most people should apply to every single program and the good one is the one you match to.

At the same time, * my opinion * is there are definite differences in training at different programs, and self-motivation is not the only factor playing into what type of dermatologist you become. The fact is we are comfortable as attendings doing what we saw and did as residents. While a terrible dermatologist can come out of a good institution, there is an influence of program on quality, in my opinion. Things like how comfortable are you managing and prescribing systemic meds, how many times have you managed serious derm conditions (ten/gvhd), and are you exposed to specialty areas regularly (pedi/hair/nail/ctcl/connective tissue/photo etc) makes a difference. No matter how much you study if you don't see these things regularly *and* study them, you will not be comfortable in practice.

Anyway we can disagree- that's fine by me.
 

sore eye asses

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I retract my last post. I'm tired of debating this issue. Truth be told, I'd rather get back to my silly posts (they come much more naturally).

see ya all in a month after i finish my ICU rotation from hell.
 
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Nellyakgo

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This should be obvious, but nevertheless here's the reno911 algorithm for applying for derm to maximize your success rate to the fullest extent.

1. Apply to every program. I don't care if it's non ERAS or in Canada or whatever. If it will lead to ABD certification, you should apply to it.
Hey guys and girls,
Sorry to bring up this thread again, but -
per above - are there any non US programs that lead to US ABD certification?
Thanks
 

Miss155

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If someone could please sincerely answer the original question especially indivduals who recently matched as it would be helpful for this year's application process. If you want to hide your identity you may just PM me.
 

sore eye asses

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If someone could please sincerely answer the original question especially indivduals who recently matched as it would be helpful for this year's application process. If you want to hide your identity you may just PM me.

you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread.
 

asmallchild

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This is a very small field. Those spots are very coveted. I agree it will be difficult to extract this kind of information unfortunately.
 

sore eye asses

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it was a joke. i thought we might reopen the thread and reprise the last 35 posts (because they were so helpful). naturally, i figured we'd start like we did last time. with my comment on glue huffing.

as an aside, glue huffing is pretty cool. if you want to obliterate the area of your brain that houses your first semester of med school in one night, hit the glue. if you run out of glue, you can switch to paint. good luck!!
 

sore eye asses

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Miss155,

The worst programs in descending order are:

1. UCSF - because everyone on staff is exceedingly attractive and you'll feel ugly there and your self esteem will take a sizeable hit.

2. UPenn - The main conference room smells like donuts and is always stocked with fine artisanal hams. Your ass will grow uncontrollably there.

3. UMich - The PD is a backgammon expert, and he will force you to play him every day after clinic. You will never beat him. Again, your self esteem will take a sizeable hit.

4. NYU - Every day is casual friday. At first you will think this a godsend, but in time you will yearn for a pantsuit or at the very least a cute skirt. You will be shunned if you wear these things, and your patients will cower in fear of your professional dress.

5. UTSW - It's in Texas

Avoid these programs at all costs!! The rest are pretty much safe. Good night, and good luck!
 

Fidicinal

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as an aside, glue huffing is pretty cool. if you want to obliterate the area of your brain that houses your first semester of med school in one night, hit the glue. if you run out of glue, you can switch to paint. good luck!!
3 words. Derm. a. bond. Apply liberally and directly to the nostrils and/or olfactory nerve. I know it says Adesivo de uso tópico para pele. But it means Fiesta!

It also says Lokaal huidhechtmiddel and Hoge Viscositeit but I don't know what those mean.
 

starbuckscoffee

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If someone could please sincerely answer the original question especially indivduals who recently matched as it would be helpful for this year's application process. If you want to hide your identity you may just PM me.

I think people might be willing to provide info about bad programs. I've certainly seen a number of negative posts about particular derm programs on these forums in the past.

To try to get your thread back on track, I'll bite.

A program I've heard bad things about is UMDNJ in Newark. I've heard that it's a very disorganized program and that the some of the faculty are very eccentric.

There's also a thread with some very negative comments about UT-Houston from a prior UT-Houston resident, which you could search for if interested.
 

DermViser

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Miss 155, its times like these that putting sore eye asses on your Ignore List is very helpful. The ignorance of his posts when you are asking a perfectly legitimate question which then puts him on the defensive is telling. The moderators should have banned him by now, but for some reason have not done so, esp. when you see his other posts that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. His screen name is indicative of his asinine posts as well as his asinine initial response, "you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread." The only exception would be programs that have only 1 resident a year.

While yes, every program has strengths and weaknesses, there are programs with HUGE weaknesses out there - which is helpful to interviewees, since everyone has to eventually taking their Derm boards. Please see the UT-Houston dermatology program thread, where the former resident actually goes into very good detail. It used to be easier when the board was on Yuku, so you may want to peruse that site as well from prior years.
 
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A prior Marshfield Clinic resident told me that the residents there are pretty unhappy. The training is apparently good, but the faculty are odd, and the city is very small and very cold in the winter.
 

scissorkick

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the thing about which programs are "bad" is that it's subjective. some of the traditional top prestigious programs (harvard, upenn, ucsf, nyu type) certainly have enormous academic heft and are perfect for the gung-ho hardcore want-to-be-a-chairman-someday type, but they may also be intense enough to make one miserable and not enjoy learning dermatology despite getting great training (this definitely happens).

some small programs have obvious deficits, like poor academic organization, or lack of exposure to surgery or cosmetics for instance, or all experience in one clinic/hospital, too few residents. but many programs, regardless of size, have attendings that are simply malignant (i.e. teach by showing how much more they know than you or do not teach at all)-- and programs are small enough that turnover of even a couple attendings has a dramatic impact. regionality also affects the vibe of how programs run too (east coast vs. west coast vs. midwest vs. south).

i think the important thing is to (hopefully) find a program that teaches you what you need and want to learn, makes you comfortable enough to ask your elder residents and attendings for help and questions when you need to, and motivates you to learn out of interest rather than primarily out of fear that you will be humiliated or embarrassed (though a little anxiety is a good thing). And hopefully is open to letting you seek opportunities outside of the program that the program might not offer itself.
 

sore eye asses

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Miss 155, its times like these that putting sore eye asses on your Ignore List is very helpful. The ignorance of his posts when you are asking a perfectly legitimate question which then puts him on the defensive is telling. The moderators should have banned him by now, but for some reason have not done so, esp. when you see his other posts that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. His screen name is indicative of his asinine posts as well as his asinine initial response, "you must huff a lot of glue. no sane person would post anything specific to this thread." The only exception would be programs that have only 1 resident a year.

While yes, every program has strengths and weaknesses, there are programs with HUGE weaknesses out there - which is helpful to interviewees, since everyone has to eventually taking their Derm boards. Please see the UT-Houston dermatology program thread, where the former resident actually goes into very good detail. It used to be easier when the board was on Yuku, so you may want to peruse that site as well from prior years.

There's a group of folks on SDN who like my posts and there is a group who do not (clearly, you're in the latter). It's the people in the former group, several of which are mods (I suspect), that keep my account from being banned.

What I am sir, is a foil. I joke. I add levity. It is my function here, and I enjoy it.

Thanks to the freedom of speech we enjoy, I will continue posting as I do, and you are welcome to ignore my screen name. My posts are lost on folks like you anyway.
 
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Great post! I guess what we're hoping for is for people to list programs with obvious or not-so-obvious deficits to help us in making decisions about where to apply, where to interview (if conflicts occur), and ultimately where to rank. Sometimes it's really hard to get a feel for the bad aspects of a program without rotating there, even if you talk to residents during the interview day. Even when you do rotate at a program, you may not pick up on the less obvious negatives.

the thing about which programs are "bad" is that it's subjective. some of the traditional top prestigious programs (harvard, upenn, ucsf, nyu type) certainly have enormous academic heft and are perfect for the gung-ho hardcore want-to-be-a-chairman-someday type, but they may also be intense enough to make one miserable and not enjoy learning dermatology despite getting great training (this definitely happens).

some small programs have obvious deficits, like poor academic organization, or lack of exposure to surgery or cosmetics for instance, or all experience in one clinic/hospital, too few residents. but many programs, regardless of size, have attendings that are simply malignant (i.e. teach by showing how much more they know than you or do not teach at all)-- and programs are small enough that turnover of even a couple attendings has a dramatic impact. regionality also affects the vibe of how programs run too (east coast vs. west coast vs. midwest vs. south).

i think the important thing is to (hopefully) find a program that teaches you what you need and want to learn, makes you comfortable enough to ask your elder residents and attendings for help and questions when you need to, and motivates you to learn out of interest rather than primarily out of fear that you will be humiliated or embarrassed (though a little anxiety is a good thing). And hopefully is open to letting you seek opportunities outside of the program that the program might not offer itself.