Bad timing!

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Dermpath2B

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
I am a pathology-bound MSIV doing a combined derm/dermpath rotation this month and am absolutely loving it! I like that in derm you can see patients, do procedures, and read your own path. My timing couldn't be worse, however, since I am prepared to match into pathology this March. The chair of derm at my school is recommending that I withdraw from the pathology match, scramble into a transitional or prelim spot or do research and apply for derm next year. Whether I go the derm route or the path route, I plan to do a dermpath fellowship. Honestly, I feel I would miss being somebody's doctor if I went the path route. My ideal work situation would be to see patients and read slides.

Is this move too risky? Will my 4th year indecisiveness be a major red flag when applying for derm next year? I am otherwise competitive for derm: Step 1 256, Step 2 268, top quintile of the class, a couple research papers and presentations at national meetings (not in derm), and outstanding letters of recommendation from pathologists and IM (none in derm... yet). I figure the derm chair at my school wouldn't recommend I withdraw from the pathology match if he didn't think I'd have a good chance of matching into derm.

Thoughts?
 
I agree that you are very competitive, and if you do not want to do path, then I think the best thing is to withdraw from the match and take your chances at Derm. The sad truth of Dermatology is that even great applicants (like you would probably be) sometimes don't get the interviews they want and fail to match. If you're willing to accept that risk, then I'd say you should go for Derm.

What's the worst-case scenario, after all? If after making a good effort at Derm and failing to match you could always fall back on path and then go the Dermpath route, right? You'd just lose a couple of years.
 
Should I fail to match into derm, you really think path programs I interviewed at this year would take me back? I interviewed at many of the top-tier places...
 
I'm in somewhat of a similar situation as far as career goals, but I'm an MS3 about to start 4th year. I have nothing in line to work on landing a derm residency spot, but I am taking a month of derm clinic and cutaneous surgery in August. If I decide I like it, I think I can still get some things together for the match next year.

Anyway, if you don't get a derm spot you still have options. You could take a year and bust out some derm research, or you could go back to path. I think the places that were interested in you for Path should still be interested.

In the end you have to do what it takes to do what you want with your career. You have the stats to make it happen, so go for it.
 
Like Dermguy said, A LOT of excellent applicants fall through the cracks and do not match to dermatology.

Here is a thought --- get into a topnotch pathology program (go to Brigham if you can), do AP ONLY, get a dermatopathology fellowship your second year of residency, then with a fellowship already in line, apply to dermatology during your 3rd year of residency. Lots of years, I know, but remember, there are a lot of dermatology residents who had to do years of research before getting in.
 
So BigD, let me make sure I'm getting what you're saying...

Do 3 years of AP, and in year 2 apply for a 1 year dermpath fellowship. Then in year 3, apply to derm and hopefully match. Then go through your dermpath fellowship and jump right into derm residency after that year.

I'd assume you'd still have to do a prelim/ty year for the year right after the dermpath fellowship right?
 
I personally would not withdraw from the pathology match.

First, the secret many medical students may not realize is that residents move from one field to another frequently. Surgery residents move to anesthesiology and EM, internal medicine residents move to pathology -- these are just a few examples I personally know of, and the movement happens even after just one year. So do not think of your matched residency as your life sentence. More flux exists than people realize.

Second, walking around with only an internship with the intent to scramble into a dermatology spot the following year is extremely risky, for several reasons...

(1) Image problem: Despite your stellar application, you may leave residents and attendings with the impression that you are disorganized because you didn't thoroughly investigate your options before matching as a medical student. What is worse is that they may think you had actually gone UNMATCHED as a medical student, even though this is not true, and you will labor under the bad impression that you were a subpar applicant, scores aside (we all know of high scoring creeps who didn't match). Remember that the interview process is complicated and competitive, and while on the trail, you are auditioning not just with your formally assigned interviewers, but also people whom you casually meet at dinner and during the day. Everyone has a say, big or small. So when you answer, "I'm a prelim/transitional right now," to the ubiquitous question, "And where are you from?" -- trust me, it will come out -- you'll need to go into your lengthy explanation to combat the common ugly thought that will pop into people's heads: "Ah, a prelim/transitional - this person didn't match the first time."

(2) Practically nonexistent scramble: Finding an open dermatology spot to scramble into as an MSIV is like finding water in the Sahara -- VERY RARE. Typically, those spots only happen if there were newly funded residency positions that were created during the application year, or if a program did not rank all their applicants because they too arrogantly assumed they would fill with their tippy top choices (and after a reported disaster several years back, that doesn't really happen anymore). If these spots do open up, they would go primarily to those dedicated unmatched applicants who slogged through the whole process from start to finish, not to folks flying in at the last minute, with no evidence of prior sacrifice to the Derm Gods. So who would those unmatched applicants be? Students from the department's own medical school, or those supported by aggressive, connected PDs who will quickly place strategic calls within the first few minutes of scramble. Such spots thus disappear FAST.

(3) Glide year stress: If you fail to scramble, then you are left high and dry with only an internship, and you would be forced into a position of either applying to those few very rare spots that open up for immediate start after your internship, or having a glide year which you need to fill with a dermatology fellowship -- positions ingeniously created by attendings to extract work from unmatched dermatology aspirants, and positions which themselves are notoriously difficult to land without the help of some inside angle. You would have to apply during that glide year, and undergo the same level of intense application stress while keeping up your fellowship work. And doing a fellowship does not guarantee matching: Notorious are the stories of fellows who apply multiple times, notching ever more fellowship years on their belt.

As for those very rare spots that open up during your internship? Same principles apply as mentioned in (2): These go to the poor souls who have assiduously cultivated their dermatology connections as medical students who did not match the first time around.

PATH IS GOOD: Apply from a position of strength. Match into a prestigious path residency. With your scores, you should have no problem getting into an MGH-type program. From there, you can spin your candidacy as someone who will excel at one of the lynchpins of dermatological diagnosis: the clinicopathological correlation (CPC). Although your path attendings may be disappointed, apply as a PGY1 since your pathology residency will have a schedule that allows you to tackle the intense derm interview process, and repay your coresidents by covering them after the season is over.

I don't think you have to go the path to dermpath route: You can spin it as you missed patient contact, and go directly into derm. Follow it up with dermpath. Dermies like derm-trained dermpaths. Then be in the position to make the most $/minute compared to any area of medicine under the sun.
 
Last edited:
Wow, thanks for all the responses, especially to DermMatch for taking the time to write such a lengthy post with helpful suggestions and perspective. I plan to meet with the chair of derm at my school this week for some advice, but honestly, I am not much of a risk taker, so I imagine I will likely go ahead and match into pathology this year. I just feel bad matching into path with the intention of switching to derm. I do plan to match at a large, MGH-type program, so I guess I wouldn't be putting people out as much if I were matching into a smaller, less well-known program.

I think it's funny, DermMatch, that you say "dermies like derm-trained dermpaths," because it's just the opposite in the pathology world. I've heard several path-trained dermpaths say, "I can't believe dermies think they can read path after just one year of training in path!"
 
Don't feel guilty about taking a Path spot. Someone will probably fill the spot after you leave, and those spots will get filled down the line. You seem to have an interest in Path, so I'm sure you'll use the year to further your education in the best way possible. There is nothing wrong with that imo. The advantage is that Path is unique in not requiring an intern/prelim/ty...thus you can use that first year to really focus on learning some path.

The Path program will be fine, everyone else will be fine...do what you need to do.
 
So BigD, let me make sure I'm getting what you're saying...

Do 3 years of AP, and in year 2 apply for a 1 year dermpath fellowship. Then in year 3, apply to derm and hopefully match. Then go through your dermpath fellowship and jump right into derm residency after that year.

I'd assume you'd still have to do a prelim/ty year for the year right after the dermpath fellowship right?

Oh sorry! I stand corrected! You will apply to dermatology during the dermpath fellowship, and if you get in, you will do 1 year of internship then derm proper.

Applying as a dermpath fellow will actually be better (as opposed to applying as a 3rd year path resident) since you will have worked with dermatologists at that time and can ask them for letters. Clinical dermatology is a huge portion of a dermpath fellowship.
 
there are people who do fellowships and still don't match? is this because they didn't have the board scores/grades to begin with?
 
Top