banner good sam phoenix - probation

[falsestart123]

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Feb 19, 2015, six days before the ROL deadline (!), Phoenix Banner Good Samaritan's general surgery program was put on probation. Anyone have any information about this? Virtually nothing is available on acgme website.

 

[WinslowPringle]

Interesting. Doesn't look like it's board pass rates. I'd like to know, too.

 

[kemper6036]

if its a program you are thinking about ranking, you should email them for more info

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

I mean, it's a little late to be thinking about ranking at this point, unless you're applying next year.

 

[eject]

i think the OP's concern was that he/she already ranked it not knowing about the probation (which hit days before the ROL deadline)....not sure what one is supposed to do in that situation

 

[Winged Scapula]

Programs get put on probation all the time. Most students think the worst possible reason but it can be something as simple as not turning in required paperwork.

The program is required to release that information to you. Therefore you may wish to send them an anonymous email or phone call however as noted above if it occurred after the rank order list was due there's not much that's going to change.

 

[kemper6036]

I mean, it's a little late to be thinking about ranking at this point, unless you're applying next year.

oops sorry, didn't realize the ROL was already due!

 

[falsestart123]

Programs get put on probation all the time. Most students think the worst possible reason but it can be something as simple as not turning in required paperwork.

The program is required to release that information to you. Therefore you may wish to send them an anonymous email or phone call however as noted above if it occurred after the rank order list was due there's not much that's going to change.

yeah that's what felt weird, this happened about a week before the ROL due date, and I never heard about it, just randomly checked ACGME the other day. i realize there's basically nothing that can be done about it--the people who match there will just have to deal i guess.

 

[Winged Scapula]

While the timing sucks, I doubt this was a malicious or deceitful move by the program.

Programs come up for a site review on a routine scheduled basis. There is a huge lag time between the site visit and when the program gets notified of the outcome (i.e. months) - and they don't get any feedback of what the ACGME/RRC is considering in the meantime. So it probably was just unfortunate timing for the program.

As to the reason for it - Like @Winged Scapula said, it could be something as minor as poor documentation/paperwork issues, or it could be something major.

Sometimes probation can actually be a positive, believe it or not. If there were real issues, nothing will force a program to change faster than an ACGME probation.

This is absolutely on point in regards to scheduling of accreditation review. I should have also mentioned that I seriously doubt the timingwas anything more than bad luck as opposed to some premeditated deceit.

I've had a hectic week including a veterinary emergency and the pet in the ICU, but will try to find out more from my colleagues there.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Also I'm pretty sure it's an explicit requirement that if you are on probation you must notify applicants, so again I'd really doubt this was deliberately withheld.

It is. My program was on probation once and I recall us having to tell applicants about it.

Sorry about the cat 🙁

Thank you.

He appears to have left-sided Pyelonephritis, a dilated CBD which they say may be due to pancreatitis because no choleliths were visible, stool up to his t-colon from dehydration (due to the polyuria) and hes splenomegalic with some nodules which are inaccessible to needle (might be a sign of lymphoma) but they will get him over the acute stuff first before tackling that.

He looks better but I feel sorry for him being in that cage in a room with a bunch of noisy dogs.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Wouldn't it make sense for the RRC to plan their site visits in such as way that information could be sent to programs well in advance of the interview/rank list season? I mean if your primary task is assuring good training and making sure programs are sound, wouldn't you handle that before a batch of students potentially gets stuck at a program with issues? I'm not familiar with this process much, but it would seem the timing could involve a site visit in the spring/summer with plenty of time to address issues before applications start rolling in. Maybe the sheer number of GS programs makes this timeline untenable though every program is probably only reviewed every 5 years or so... Anyway random musings

 

[fishingboat]

I finally found the ACGME rule that requires disclosure of probation--that disclosure includes current residents and those interviewing for residency. There is no time element, which makes it essentially toothless. The NRMP match agreement doesn't have a requirement specifically, but appears to require programs to be in compliance with ACGME rules.

I too sort of doubt something nefarious...but I also don't see a lot to suggest diligence in meeting the ACGME notification requirement. It's remarkable how fast a program can email blast all applicants to let them know about positive changes (amazing new chairman appointed yesterday!!!). But let's face it, the program probably just didn't want to lob a bomb into its applicant pool six days before the ROL deadline. The lack of notification may not be proof of the program's malevolence, but it should hardly instill any confidence to current and future applicants.

 

[fishingboat]

The teeth are that you are already on probation. Programs that get put on probation tend to make sure they are dotting every i and crossing every T. You don't actively seek to subvert a requirement when you've just been put on probation, unless you are trying to get shut down.

point taken...and that again doesn't instill confidence...it has now been over two weeks and the program has not communicated in writing to residency applicants about the probation. seems like if i were a responsible program that wanted to, as you say, dot and cross, i'd have had that letter out within a couple of business days.

 

[falsestart123]

Anyone ever hear what went down?