Barash/Miller... cover to cover??

Panacea Financial Contract Review
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
N

nlfru

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
How many of you out there read Barash or Miller cover to cover? This is our programs ONLY recommended way of passing the boards. Any and all review books are very frowned upon. Thoughts?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Please don't waste your time memorizing a text book.
Do your cases, read about each case you do, and be current with the literature.


nlfru said:
How many of you out there read Barash or Miller cover to cover? This is our programs ONLY recommended way of passing the boards. Any and all review books are very frowned upon. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
nlfru said:
How many of you out there read Barash or Miller cover to cover? This is our programs ONLY recommended way of passing the boards. Any and all review books are very frowned upon. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

That well may be the worst advice I have ever heard. I think someone was trying to joke around with you. Seriously. That is a recipe for disaster.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
But remember review books are for review. You need to have a base of knowledge. That's why it's vital to read about your cases and the drugs you're using (plus select high yield chapters from a text).
 
i read lange kind of cover to cover.
read baby miller kind of cover to cover.
did well on the boards.

opened miller and barash a couple of times. use mostly to stabilize my bookshelf.
 
i read lange kind of cover to cover.
read baby miller kind of cover to cover.
did well on the boards.


opened miller and barash a couple of times. use mostly to stabilize my bookshelf.
 
Don't do it man. Waste of time and energy. M&M is much better as are some of the other review books. I read Big Blue twice as an intern and that was one of the best things I could have done for myself. From there... all I had to do is fill in the detail gaps.
 
sevoflurane said:
Don't do it man. Waste of time and energy. M&M is much better as are some of the other review books. I read Big Blue twice as an intern and that was one of the best things I could have done for myself. From there... all I had to do is fill in the detail gaps.
Click to expand...

Thanks... that was actually my question. I find myself unable to read Barash front to back. I have read rotation specific chapters in Miller/Barash(thoracic, neuro, etc) but have been using a lot of other random books.
 
nlfru said:
How many of you out there read Barash or Miller cover to cover? This is our programs ONLY recommended way of passing the boards. Any and all review books are very frowned upon. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Been there, done that (Barash). I wouldn't say that's the only way of passing, since passing is by curve and very few people read the real books. Very few people would pass the boards if that were true.

Read it as a CA1. Never had to study again. In trainings and written were a joke.

For those recommending MM, keep in mind CRNAs read MM. Do you want to have the same knowledge as a CRNA?
 
nlfru said:
How many of you out there read Barash or Miller cover to cover? This is our programs ONLY recommended way of passing the boards. Any and all review books are very frowned upon. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Barash - never. Miller - a lot. But, obviously, not cover to cover )))

I didn't read Barash not because I do not like it, but simply because i do not have it. Like his uncommon diseases, though.
Big Miller is good to understand some concepts, and sometimes good when you are looking for a specific answer and it sticks in your mind - I've seen it.
Review books are very good - later, when you know what are they talking about in a very concentrated manner.
 
Last edited:
urge said:
Been there, done that (Barash). I wouldn't say that's the only way of passing, since passing is by curve and very few people read the real books. Very few people would pass the boards if that were true.

Read it as a CA1. Never had to study again. In trainings and written were a joke.

For those recommending MM, keep in mind CRNAs read MM. Do you want to have the same knowledge as a CRNA?
Click to expand...

I appreciate the post, however I have seen SRNAs running around with faust, hall and yes... even big blue/audio blue.
 
urge said:
For those recommending MM, keep in mind CRNAs read MM. Do you want to have the same knowledge as a CRNA?
Click to expand...

No, we also read Miller, Barash, Stoelting, etc.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
urge said:
For those recommending MM, keep in mind CRNAs read MM. Do you want to have the same knowledge as a CRNA?
Click to expand...

Kinda ridiculous. I'm sure there are CRNA's reading Barash and Miller, so I guess we should junk those books too. What seperates us is our medical education and training to better understand and apply what we are reading.

As for MM, if you know that book cover to cover you know more anesthesiology than 98.5% (or more) of all practicing anesthesiologists and will blow exams out of the water. Easily the most bang for the buck as far as quantity of information for a managable size.
 
of course you need to read one of the major books cover to cover--then you make your own notes and at the end of the residency you have made your own review book--you then understand the material which makes you a better doctor-the key thing to be an effective anesthesiologist instead of a tube of propofol is how well your knowledge of medicine is applied perioperatively---to be sure you can do this using multiple sources or reading for cases BUT, its all in those books--if your disciplined you can get through it and then when the boards appear you will not be flustered by them. that program that makes you read the book is right on--from time to time the people who run these programs actually know something and it is better to listen to them
 
Nice post.


boggy said:
of course you need to read one of the major books cover to cover--then you make your own notes and at the end of the residency you have made your own review book--you then understand the material which makes you a better doctor-the key thing to be an effective anesthesiologist instead of a tube of propofol is how well your knowledge of medicine is applied perioperatively---to be sure you can do this using multiple sources or reading for cases BUT, its all in those books--if your disciplined you can get through it and then when the boards appear you will not be flustered by them. that program that makes you read the book is right on--from time to time the people who run these programs actually know something and it is better to listen to them
Click to expand...
 
Dear Sir,

Would you care to quote a source for the below information/advice? Thanks.

Narcotized said:
Kinda ridiculous. I'm sure there are CRNA's reading Barash and Miller, so I guess we should junk those books too. What seperates us is our medical education and training to better understand and apply what we are reading.

As for MM, if you know that book cover to cover you know more anesthesiology than 98.5% (or more) of all practicing anesthesiologists and will blow exams out of the water. Easily the most bang for the buck as far as quantity of information for a managable size.
Click to expand...
 
Narcotized said:
I'm sure there are CRNA's reading Barash and Miller, so I guess we should junk those books too.
Click to expand...

True, but is there any benefit...


baby-reading11.jpg




:laugh:

Just kidding, no crucifixes please...😉
 
I only asked because I wanted to know where, from a percentage standpoint, I actually stand: I read M&M, Barash (as dictated by program director), Big Blue, Micheal Ho's material, Hall's review book and at least two other review books. Did I crack the elite 0.000000001% who know more than everyone else? :idea: I really did read all of that and even took notes on lots of it, but all kidding aside, do you really think that passing the orals, passing the TEE exam, or answering some of the obscure written board questions will be accomplished by simply knowing M&M cover to cover? I can think of at least four questions that came up during my orals that were never covered in M&M. As for the TEE exam, M&M will not do. On the whole, though, I do agree with you that knowing M&M cover to cover will tremendeously help you. That, however, will not mean that one "will know more anesthesiology than 98.5% (or more) of all practicing anesthesiologists and will blow exams out of the water." Just a frank opinion, brother. Take it for what it is worth. Best regards.👍



Narcotized said:
I spoke to 200 anesthesiologists and only 3 knew more than everything covered, cover to cover, in M & M. That comes out to 98.5%.

OK seriously, as for blowing exams out of the water, you're forcing me to blow my horn, but anyway, I read pretty much nothing else CA-1 year, did not know the book cover to cover after just one full reading, and had a board exam passing score just after CA-1 year. A friend of mine then did basically the same thing with the same result one year later as a CA-1. That book is the bang for the buck bible.

Big Blue has a few numbers and trivia worth knowing, but is otherwise pretty much crap as an anesthesia reference. Does an attending really look in big blue to brush up on a case? It's a good last minute cram if you blew off residency and have no time to do real studying, but otherwise I'd save the money and skip it.
Click to expand...
 
It depends on why you are reading. There are two basic reasons. First, to gain a knowledge base regarding anesthesia. Second, to pass your boards. Barash/Miller are great to learn about anesthesia. They are not very good to help you pass the boards.
To pass the boards, get a board prep text, e.g., big blue. Supplement with some Barash or M&M or "insert fav text here". Big blue tells you what you need to know to pass the test. This is not the same thing as what you need to know to be a good anesthesiologist.
I read M&M, Miller etc during residency and preparing for boards. I was a good anesthesiologist. I failed. I read Big Blue and literally crushed the boards on my second attempt. I am no better at being an anesthesiologist than I was before reading BB.
Its a game we all have to play.
Tuck
 
Sure you are, Tucker: you passed your boards. Also, perhaps you learned one or two useful things from BB?🙂


tucker27705 said:
It depends on why you are reading. There are two basic reasons. First, to gain a knowledge base regarding anesthesia. Second, to pass your boards. Barash/Miller are great to learn about anesthesia. They are not very good to help you pass the boards.
To pass the boards, get a board prep text, e.g., big blue. Supplement with some Barash or M&M or "insert fav text here". Big blue tells you what you need to know to pass the test. This is not the same thing as what you need to know to be a good anesthesiologist.
I read M&M, Miller etc during residency and preparing for boards. I was a good anesthesiologist. I failed. I read Big Blue and literally crushed the boards on my second attempt. I am no better at being an anesthesiologist than I was before reading BB.Its a game we all have to play.
Tuck
Click to expand...
 
You can lead an idiot to water but you cannot make him drink.


/thread
 
I agree with Narcotized. M & M is one of the best review books for the size available. However, most people who fail the oral boards do not fail due to a lack of knowledge....they usually fail due to poor judgement or an inability to organize and communicate their knowledge. I also agree with someone's statement that Big Blue is crap....your time would be spent better focusing on other sources.

The best way to study is to practice oral board questions and read up on topics when you feel your knowledge is weak. You have to start practicing "saying" what you know.

Clinical judgment is one of the attributes tested repeatedly throughout the exam. Practicing questions exposes you to multiple difficult clinical scenarios, giving you the opportunity to think them through thoroughly before the exam. During the exam is not the time mentally address a difficult situation for the very first time. The course i attended did a great job of reviewing many of the most challenging clinical situations you could face on the boards....many that i had not had to deal with in residency or clinical practice. They also had several books with oral board questions and answers. Practice is the key.
 
tucker27705 said:
It depends on why you are reading. There are two basic reasons. First, to gain a knowledge base regarding anesthesia. Second, to pass your boards. Barash/Miller are great to learn about anesthesia. They are not very good to help you pass the boards.
To pass the boards, get a board prep text, e.g., big blue. Supplement with some Barash or M&M or "insert fav text here". Big blue tells you what you need to know to pass the test. This is not the same thing as what you need to know to be a good anesthesiologist.
I read M&M, Miller etc during residency and preparing for boards. I was a good anesthesiologist. I failed. I read Big Blue and literally crushed the boards on my second attempt. I am no better at being an anesthesiologist than I was before reading BB.
Its a game we all have to play.
Tuck
Click to expand...


You're spot on.
 
ProRealDoc said:
Here are sample questions from the CRNA certifying exam. Take a look and decide for yourself if you would ever need to read hall or big blue to be able to pass this exam.

http://www.nbcrna.com/downloads/CCNA/Alternative_Question_Format_Samples.pdf
Click to expand...

Ouch. Talk about low standards. I wonder what their fail rate is.

All of that stuff is in Baby Miller, which I read the month before starting my anesthesia residency. If the rest of the questions are like that, a CA-1 should be able to pass their exam.

But getting back to the original question, I would not just read Barash or Miller cover to cover as my only board prep technique. As long as your residency program gives you a good broad experience, it'll be easier for you to read sections of the books on a case by case or rotation by rotation basis. If you are just reading and not applying the knowledge in the OR or by doing questions, you will likely forget it.

Barash is very condensed compared to Big Miller, and this can make it a difficult read. However, Miller sometimes goes off on almost irrelevant tangents. So keep that in mind when deciding which book to read (unless your program decides for you).

I used to go to Morgan as a quick reference, but it eventually stopped answering my questions. So now I tend to go to Big Miller (usually)/journal searches (if I have the time). However Morgan is good starter book.
 
Hello,

Baby Miller or Morgan are important because they show you a minimum common denominator for passing the boards. I am not saying they will guarantee your passing the boards, but only that you cannot expect to pass if you don't know Baby Miller or Morgan. Either one of them is good. Of course, the Baby Miller is more "official" because the authors are the same people who decide what we are supposed to know for the boards, but Morgan is not bad at all. It is very comparable in the amount of information covered. Both are easy to read, both have similar prices, both are about the same size.

Anything beyond these two basic textbooks will add to your knowledge and increase your chances of passing: the sky is the limit, but as others have said, passing the boards is not only a matter of dry knowledge. It is also a matter of clinical wisdom, but you cannot have enough clinical wisdom if you don't have the knowledge base for it.

Regarding the Big Miller, Barash, or Longnecker, it is good to have them as reference and consult them often, because, like it or not, they are today's gold standards.

We had a thread covering board exams a few weeks ago, where several people, including myself, contributed interesting stuff. You can search it and read it. OK, here it is: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=703514

And naturally, I agree wholeheartedly with Boggy:
Boggy said:
of course you need to read one of the major books cover to cover--then you make your own notes and at the end of the residency you have made your own review book--you then understand the material which makes you a better doctor-the key thing to be an effective anesthesiologist instead of a tube of propofol is how well your knowledge of medicine is applied perioperatively---to be sure you can do this using multiple sources or reading for cases BUT, its all in those books--if your disciplined you can get through it and then when the boards appear you will not be flustered by them. that program that makes you read the book is right on--from time to time the people who run these programs actually know something and it is better to listen to them
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Miller Blade Advice
Replies
29
Views
3K
psychbender
psychbender
I
Covering 3-4 CRNAs with SRNAs in rooms alongside them
Replies
36
Views
3K
NicholasPavona
N
M
Difficult Spinals coverage?
Replies
33
Views
3K
psychbender
psychbender
S
Daily occurrence malpractice coverage
Replies
4
Views
1K
datruth585
D
MedicalCorpse
Request advice about switching malpractice coverage
Replies
7
Views
1K
MedicalCorpse
MedicalCorpse
Top