Basic Biology or Upper Level Class?

[August24]

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I applied last fall for the 2014 cycle, but only got waitlisted and am losing hope. I will apply in the fall for the 2015 cycle, and in the meantime will become a zoology major (I was animal science and graduated in may), taking some grad classes and shadowing or teching at a vet clinic. I chose this option becuase my GPA is 3.4 and I need more hours. Also, I didn't want to start a master's with no intention of finishing and the zoology degree I can finish in 1 year (plus pay undergrad tuition for the grad classes I'll take). I don't need to finish the degree as all I need is a DVM eventually, but I know that they don't like people who are so easily willing to drop a masters and screw the masters program over.

My question is this: should I take BIO 100 (basic first-year biology) or an upper level bio class? I took the AP exam in High School and recieved a 5, so I never took BIO 100. Here are the pros and cons. What do you think?? I also will be taking cell bio as my other undergrad class as I haven't taken it before.

TAKE BIO 100:
Pros:
-Guaranteed A (will boost Pre-req GPA, Science GPA, and last 45 with little effort)
Cons:
-A graduate taking a first-year class doesn't look challenging
The class won't be finished until December (after admissions has started looking at apps)
-Class is only offered M/W/F so will make it more difficult to get work/shadow hours in at vet (no full day during the week empty)

TAKE UPPER LEVEL BIO
PRO:
-More challenging class on appliation
-Possible Science GPA boost with some work
-Less credits to take in Spring to finish degree
-Can take a Tues/TH class to free up 3 days for shadow
CON:
-Study time will take away from shadowing time
-Pre-req GPA will remain the same
-Possible GPA risk if I don't get an A/A-

 

[nyanko]

I feel like I'm repeating myself 😉 but if you feel like you have a good foundation in biology already, take the upper division course(s) instead. It will prove more to the adcoms, challenge you more, stimulate you more and prepare you for vet school better, in addition to the more advantageous time thing there. I really don't see any cons to it, personally. 😉

Also personally I would take more than one course, if you really want to show improvement.

 

[RunTheWorld]

DEFINITELY take an upper level. Even if you get an A in Bio 100 I really don't think that will say much about your abilities or look good on your application. Maybe just take an easier upper level bio class if you're nervous about the grade.

 

[lalzi22]

I say the upper-level, definitely. Adcom's don't want to see that you can do well in intro courses, they want to see you can do well in difficult biology courses. A good grade (A, A-, even a B+ depending on the course) in an upper level will go much farther in showing your abilities than an A+ in any intro course.

 

[Minnerbelle]

i dunno if it's just me, but i had major motivation issues when it came to "easy" intro courses and personally had better grades with my upper level courses... so you never know. and if you've already gotten a degree in one major, i don't think adding one more just by completing one intro class is going to be a wow factor. so my vote is definitely with an upper level course as well. those will help you better prepare for vet school anyway!

 

[August24]

Thank you for all of your quick responses!

yes, it is a no-brainer to take the upper level minus the pre-reg consideration. My pre-reqs are done, my GPA there won't change even if I take 10 upper level bio classes this year and get As.

However, I've never taken Intro Bio, which is a prereq. So if I do take that, that's a 4 credit A now averaged into, what, like 30 credits or so of physics, ochem, calc, etc? A larger GPA difference here than a 3-4 credit bio class averaged into my huge numer of science classes I already have (and Basic Bio would be here, too.) And accumulative GPA will change very little either way as I already have 162 credits anything else would be average into.

If they didn't calculate all the different types of GPAs, obviously a more challenging (and applicable, at this point) class would be the best decision, but I would value a boost to my pre-req GPA as well.

???

 

[Minnerbelle]

It really depends on which schools you're applying to. Some schools do pre-req GPAs and others don't. If your viable choice in schools are the ones that highly value pre-req GPAs, then it can't hurt to take the intro. But if you're applying to a lot of schools that don't, and instead highly value upper level courses, then it can hurt.

 

[BlacKAT33]

TAKE BIO 100:
Pros:
-Guaranteed A (will boost Pre-req GPA, Science GPA, and last 45 with little effort)
Cons:
-A graduate taking a first-year class doesn't look challenging
The class won't be finished until December (after admissions has started looking at apps)
-Class is only offered M/W/F so will make it more difficult to get work/shadow hours in at vet (no full day during the week empty)

look at this list, don't you think adcoms know all of this too? what is the point of a guaranteed A if it is guaranteed??? it will mean nothing to your GPA because they'll know which class it is in. all that hard work=nothing to adcoms. also, it looks like it will make it harder to accumulate hours of work/shadow, so what's the point?

 

[nyanko]

Yeah, I still agree with the others and with what I posted previously. I don't think the small quantitative bump in your pre-req GPA (that wouldn't even be counted by most schools because of taking it after the deadline!) would be worth the possible qualitative drop in your subjective evaluation by the admissions committee members (that would be conferred by both (a) taking an easy lower division course and (b) not being able to get as much experience).

edit: If you were waitlisted, that obviously means that your "numbers" were perfectly competitive - I'd focus on the qualitative at this point if I were you, aka make yourself stand out more.

 

[August24]

you guys are right! I knew I could count on you for something! If it's so obvious to you all what my strategy is, I know I couldn't pull the wool over admissions' eyes about my grade inflation plan. I will take another upper level bio (vert. bio, I think, probably more interesting, too.) I really appreciate your perspectives! THANK YOU!!!

 

[der2002]

you guys are right! I knew I could count on you for something! If it's so obvious to you all what my strategy is, I know I couldn't pull the wool over admissions' eyes about my grade inflation plan. I will take another upper level bio (vert. bio, I think, probably more interesting, too.) I really appreciate your perspectives! THANK YOU!!!

august: might I ask which school you were waitlisted at? had you applied to multiple schools? I suggest you schedule a file review with them asap and try to adjust your application this year accordingly.

 

[zeebra44]

you guys are right! I knew I could count on you for something! If it's so obvious to you all what my strategy is, I know I couldn't pull the wool over admissions' eyes about my grade inflation plan. I will take another upper level bio (vert. bio, I think, probably more interesting, too.) I really appreciate your perspectives! THANK YOU!!!

Umm no..no one can pull the wool over admissions' eyes, especially about grade inflation plans. That should be obvious.

 

[Jakesmom]

you guys are right! I knew I could count on you for something! If it's so obvious to you all what my strategy is, I know I couldn't pull the wool over admissions' eyes about my grade inflation plan. I will take another upper level bio (vert. bio, I think, probably more interesting, too.) I really appreciate your perspectives! THANK YOU!!!

There is NO way to fool the adcoms, as the admissions lady from Ohio State made perfectly clear during their open house. Not only do they look down on classes taken simply to boost GPA, but she made a point about the adcoms taking exception with hard classes (such as biochem or Ochem) being taken in the summer. Now, if you are on a time crunch and that is the only time you can take it, that's one thing. But if you purposely wait till summer to take it, she said they're probably going to nab you on it.
I second the idea of having a file review with the schools you didn't get into. This will be my first time applying, but you can bet your sweet bippy that I will ask for a file review if I don't get in! And yes, I did just say "bet your sweet bippy"....I'm old.😀

 

[nyanko]

she made a point about the adcoms taking exception with hard classes (such as biochem or Ochem) being taken in the summer. Now, if you are on a time crunch and that is the only time you can take it, that's one thing. But if you purposely wait till summer to take it, she said they're probably going to nab you on it.

Yeah, this I don't understand. I took organic chem I and II over the same summer and it was hard as hell.

 

[BlacKAT33]

i took gen chem II over the summer and it was exactly like during the semester. i studied my ass off and was still only one of a handful of people to get As. the only thing that made it "easier" was that the class was smaller than during the school year (50 vs. 300) so i could get more one-on-one help directly from the prof instead of the TA

 

[jpeterman13]

Yeah, this I don't understand. I took organic chem I and II over the same summer and it was hard as hell.

Yea, at my school, the students who took Org I and II in the summer always had higher grades. I never understood it either.

 

[BlacKAT33]

Yea, at my school, the students who took Org I and II in the summer always had higher grades. I never understood it either.

maybe it was like me...already took it once during the school yr but had to repeat for w/e reasons lol

 

[david594]

Yea, at my school, the students who took Org I and II in the summer always had higher grades. I never understood it either.

Maybe its because they were super motivated overachievers committed to getting as much out of their 4 years of undergrad as possible thus feeling the need to take summer classes instead of screwing around?

In my summer sciences classes, most of the people taking them were there with a purpose. (most shooting for professional school). Gen chem or orgo over the summer can put you a full year ahead when it comes to pre-reqs and opens up a lot of options for higher level classes sooner.

To the OP: No brainer on this one that you want to take the upper level bio class.

Just imagine the interview question: "So what have you done since the last time you applied?"

"We'll I took an easy bio class I had no need for and got an A"
versus
"I continued to further my education by taking some interesting upper division bio courses"?

 

[xxalic3xx]

Summer classes are thought to my easier at my school, too! but it's actually not. I think the only pro is that the classes are smaller. My school is based on quarter systems and summer classes are actually a week shorter than regular quarters. but it is still rumored around my campus that summer classes are easier......I wonder why.

 

[xxalic3xx]

OH i actually took marine bio one summer. And it was easier than the one in autumn quarter I guess? The summer class had more assignments and harder exams and was finished in 4.5 weeks - research paper, lab, learning paper, homework, written exams. The autumn quarter one has 2 multiple-choice exams, lab, no paper or homework, and it was 10 weeks. But the summer class generally did better because there were more points you can lose to get 4.0 (950/1000 = 4.0), whereas the autumn one was 570/600 = 4.0. Both of them are at 95% though, so I don't know if I can say the summer one was easier. It just felt to me that the summer one is easier.

Other than this class, I really don't know any class that's easier during the summer. I thought people who take summer classes are more motivated to study rather than stay home or play XD.

 

[Minnerbelle]

about the summer school thing... maybe it's not so much that the class is easier, but that for a lot of people (like me) the most difficult part of school was time management?

i've gotten much better about it over the years, but i'm one of those people who does really well as long as i can focus on one thing at a time. i do well with intensive work as long as it's constant, and there's no break. but if there's a lull after midterms or something... forget it... my mind's elsewhere until the day before the next midterm or due date for a major paper. i used to ONLY work well under pressure, so something like summer school, when you're constantly under pressure worked well for me.

 

[jpeterman13]

Maybe its because they were super motivated overachievers committed to getting as much out of their 4 years of undergrad as possible thus feeling the need to take summer classes instead of screwing around?

It could be this, but definitely not always the case. It could be the fact that everyone knew that the professor for the summer term was a bit more lenient. Students purposely scheduled things to take org in the summer, even if it meant being behind one semester...that's not super motivated. Many wanted to avoid one specific professor that taught org II every winter semester.The students that took it over the regular school year generally had higher scores on the standardized final. Hands down, it was considered the "easy route" at OUR school, both by students and professors. "Screwing around"? Some people have to work in the summer, choose to do summer research programs, or have other courses to take that are only offered in the summer. I took summer courses every summer except for one (and that one was because I was doing a research program), it just so happened that org didn't fit in my schedule during the summers. I really liked summer courses for pretty much the same reasons that Minnerbelle mentioned.

 

[ckd816]

And yes, I did just say "bet your sweet bippy"....I'm old.😀

Love it!! That just made my day... the first time I heard that saying I was like, WTF?!

And, umm... for the original topic... what everyone else said. 😛

 

[nyanko]

about the summer school thing... maybe it's not so much that the class is easier, but that for a lot of people (like me) the most difficult part of school was time management?

i've gotten much better about it over the years, but i'm one of those people who does really well as long as i can focus on one thing at a time. i do well with intensive work as long as it's constant, and there's no break. but if there's a lull after midterms or something... forget it... my mind's elsewhere until the day before the next midterm or due date for a major paper. i used to ONLY work well under pressure, so something like summer school, when you're constantly under pressure worked well for me.

Yeah, I do my best work under pressure too, but my main problem is that with only one thing at a time I get super super bored and disengaged really easily. I liked the fast pace of organic over the summer, but with no other classes to mix it up I would get disinterested way before the summer was over.

Example: that summer I took organic I & II and a server config/programming class and did pretty mediocre - B in organic I, C in organic II and A in the other class. Three years later I took Immunology, Molecular Biology II and Physics II, did my undergrad honors thesis writing and defense and worked at a vet clinic on weekends over the summer and ended up with a 3.7 and a finished thesis.

Semi-off-topic but man no wonder admissions is such a crapshoot - even just something that should be as simple as comparing GPAs has so many nuances and variables...educational system is weird.

 

[StartingoverVet]

! And yes, I did just say "bet your sweet bippy"....I'm old.😀

Not sure age has anything to do with it. I am "old" but have no clue what you are talking about.