basic science during time out - useful?

[europeman]

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It seems to me that the majority of residents and junior faculty who do 2 years of basic science during residency do not ever run their own lab. Therefore, what is the purpose of general surgery residents doing basic science? Wouldn't their time be better spent doing translational research, health services research, or just about ANYTHING else? I mean, how can you compete in basic science if you ALSO have to be a surgeon?

😕

 

[Blade28]

It seems to me that the majority of residents and junior faculty who do 2 years of basic science during residency do not ever run their own lab. Therefore, what is the purpose of general surgery residents doing basic science? Wouldn't their time be better spent doing translational research, health services research, or just about ANYTHING else? I mean, how can you compete in basic science if you ALSO have to be a surgeon?

😕

If by "run your own lab," you mean act as PI (Principal Investigator), then you're right. There's no way a resident - or, usually, even an attending - can do that. PIs are usually PhDs who are well-versed in grant-writing and funding their labs every year.

The purpose of research is to:

*Publish papers in peer-reviewed journals
*Present abstracts for presentation at regional/national meetings
*Have research/data to present at regional/national meetings
*Possibly work on patents (depending on field of research)
*Network with big names in your field of interest to prepare for fellowship applications
*Have 1-3 years of an easier schedule for whatever reason (burned out, start a family, moonlight, travel, etc.)

It's going to be very difficult to do any sort of meaningful research without taking time off. Sure, you can assist with clinical studies or chart-review-based retrospectives - but basic science benchwork? Will be hard to do. You just don't have the time (or energy).

 

[Celiac Plexus]

It seems to me that the majority of residents and junior faculty who do 2 years of basic science during residency do not ever run their own lab. Therefore, what is the purpose of general surgery residents doing basic science? Wouldn't their time be better spent doing translational research, health services research, or just about ANYTHING else? I mean, how can you compete in basic science if you ALSO have to be a surgeon?

😕

I would add that the main reason that residents do basic science is because they are actually interested in it, and like doing it.

You don't "compete" when you do research. You get a chance to flex another part of your mental musculature. Some folks find this extraordinarily rewarding in its own right.

 

[DrDawg]

NIH data supports your claim that few MD's act as PI's. And the number has been decreasing despite dedicated grant programs (K grants ect). However, funding sources such as the NIH are increasingly looking for clinical colaborators for basic science research. This may or may not be translational. In addition to the points that Blade, and CP have pointed out dedicated bench research time allows residents to become skilled at constructively reviewing the literature. A skill that is not particularly taught well in medical school or residency.

 

[logistic]

You get a chance to flex another part of your mental musculature. Some folks find this extraordinarily rewarding in its own right.[/quote]

Haven't we gotten past the point where we invest large chunks of time solely for the sake of interest? That was what we did in college and less so in medical school. Once you get to residency in your late 20s, it is time to specialize to prep for your career. If your career will not involve basic science research, why spend two years in the lab? It takes much longer than these two years to become adept at the various skills of a basic scientist. Otherwise, you will not be able to compete with other scientists for what counts: grants and the freedom this money offers you to test your hypotheses. I do agree that you can always just be a colloborator, but I'm not sure that spending two years in the lab is needed for this, and in this scenario, the intellectual reward is just not there. The colloborators I've seen so far depend so much on the basic science PIs to come up with hypotheses that the fun of developing your own hypotheses and methodologies to test your ideas is not there.

 

[Anka]

If you don't need to do two years of research for your career goals, and aren't interested in it for it's own sake, then go to a program that doesn't require two years of research or will allow you to use the two years for something else that you might be interested in. Most of the programs that require two years of resarch hope that their residents will pursue academic careers; the two years are a chance to start establishing an academic track record.

Anka

 

[surgeon2b forev]

I think the OP was not suggesting that the 2 years of research time is not worthwhile, but rather what is the reason that residents spend it in the basic sciences when instead, maybe, they could be doing something more worthwhile. health services, economics, mba, ethics, translational, etc.

makes sense to me. doing good basic science as faculty is almost impossible as surgeon - not to mention the need for so many other types of research.

 

[supercut]

One big reason to do research as a resident that having publications and presentations to your name enhances your application for fellowships. In fact, some fellowships are so competitive that you pretty much have to do research in order to have any chance of matching (eg peds surg)

 

[surgeon2b forev]

The purpose of getting publications is not just to enhance your application, but, if that is the primary reason you are doing it, you don't have to do basic science. You can do health services research, pursue a Robert Wood Johnsons Clinical Scholar Program, do clinical research, outcomes research, translational research, etc. You can also spend time training so you learn how to do it well - like Dr. Birkmeyer at U Michigan. My point is, I think it makes more sense to go about those endeavors since they are more realistic pursuits to continue as an academic surgeon. Now a days, and us residents/medical students who want to be surgeons have to be realistic; we don't be running basic science labs and be doing surgery.

You can always collaborate, of course though. I guess that's one reason to get exposure, but then you'll never really being doing things by yourself.