Basics Of Shadowing

[knowthyself]

My apologies if these questions have already been answered.
-How many hours of shadowing does one really need? Is a day enough?
-I read on the forum that having one strong LOR is more important than having few general ones. Does the LOR written by the Doctor one shadowed, really has value(what can one possibly know about the abilities of another person in a day?!)
-Can shadowing be a 'learning experience' in reality? One is not allowed to talk or touch patients. What can be gained from this experience?
Can someone throw some light on this topic?
BTW, this is the pre-medical shadowing I am talking about; that a few schools recommend having alongwith volunteer work.
TIA.

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[DrMidlife]

-How many hours of shadowing does one really need? Is a day enough?

Maybe. Better yet, one day each with a few docs.

-I read on the forum that having one strong LOR is more important than having few general ones. Does the LOR written by the Doctor one shadowed, really has value(what can one possibly know about the abilities of another person in a day?!)

An LOR from a single-day shadow isn't going to be a strong LOR (unless that doc also mentored your senior project). Unless we're talking DO, LORs from shadowing don't carry weight.

-Can shadowing be a 'learning experience' in reality? One is not allowed to talk or touch patients. What can be gained from this experience?

Shadowing has nothing to do with patient care. (Clinical volunteering, such as in an ER, might teach you whether you like that or not.) You should be learning about what it's like for the doctor you're shadowing. Is he/she happy? Happy with compensation, practice structure, patient load, time off? What does he/she think about the smelly workman's comp drug-seeker you just watched him/her examine? How many medicare patients does he/she see, and what are the issues with that? If he/she had the choice, would he/she still do medicine again? Why or why not?

If you're not comfortable having fast-paced conversations between patients, and/or if you're not assertive in figuring out how to get something out of the experience, then shadowing isn't going to work very well. Unless you get a doc who is a great teacher, and then you're all set. If you're self-conscious in front of patients (which is natural) then you need to ask the doc to coach you on where to stand and whether to do anything more than say hello when he/she introduces you to the patient. Personally, I shadowed a lot, and across the board, the patients loved the extra attention. Even in a colorectal practice.

Best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

My apologies if these questions have already been answered.
-How many hours of shadowing does one really need?

There's no set answer to this. It's about like Potter Stewart's answer concerning how he knew when something was porn. Basically, you need enough clinical experience to be able to make a convincing case (and write convincing essays) when an interviewer asks you why you want to go into medicine and how you know it's the right field for you. More clinical experience will always be better, but it's not like you can say, ok, 100 hours is enough, but 85 hours isn't.

Is a day enough?

Depends. Do you have no clinical experience whatsoever? In that case, probably not. Conversely, are you a nurse going back to school after 10+ years of working full-time in the hospital? In that case, you probably don't need to do a ton of shadowing.

-I read on the forum that having one strong LOR is more important than having few general ones.

Most schools require a minimum of three letters, and they should all be strongly supportive of you and written by people who know you well.

Does the LOR written by the Doctor one shadowed, really has value(what can one possibly know about the abilities of another person in a day?!)

No. That LOR would be a complete waste of the paper it was printed on.

-Can shadowing be a 'learning experience' in reality? One is not allowed to talk or touch patients. What can be gained from this experience?

I basically agree with Dr. Midlife on this. Also, see above.

BTW, this is the pre-medical shadowing I am talking about; that a few schools recommend having alongwith volunteer work.

Basically *all* medical schools will expect you to have clinical experience of some type, not just a few of them. If you apply to DO schools, some of them even want to see that you have experience with a DO specifically.

 

[knowthyself]

Thanks DrMidlife & Q. So shadowing is something I really should do considering my good interpersonal skills; I am a type extrovert. The more Doctors I shadow, the better it is. & there is no set rule as to how many hours or days I should be doing this. Got it.
-Clinical volunteering: again, how much is it required in terms time spent? I have seen students on this forum volunteering for almost an year.
-LoR: I came to the US with a Masters degree just a few years ago. I really dont know anybody enfluential enough who can write me a LoR. I am self employed. How should I go about this? A high ranking deptartment head at a well recognized private school is a friend of mine. We didnt work together but acted in a play! I am sure she can endorse me but will it count? I have done good amount of volunteer work with NGOs and such clubs and held board positions; completely non Medical field. Will LoR from such organization head work? How can I make my case strong?
TIA

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Hi, regarding the question on clinical hours, most schools I've spoken with feel quality (are you getting a good feel for patient care & the impact of medicine on the patient/physician) is more important than quantity. Only heard of one, Colorado, that referenced a concrete # hours. In a cryptic way the Dean said that, under the former Dean, 500 hrs clinical was considered sufficient. That's way more than any other school I've heard of, when I've pressed a number of schools admissions offices, they'd said 300 hrs clinical experience is more than the majority of applicants have. Schools are hesitant to name a number of hours that's "right", preferring instead that the candidate choose how many hrs. they need to get a feel for medicine.

Many but not all (1 exception I can think of) essentially require some clinical volunteer work to be interviewed, the one exception school lumped all volunteer work together. But I'd think to interview effectively, probably 100 hrs clinical volunteer work would be needed, it took me 3-4 months to really get a feel for how things worked, which staff did which thing, and to feel accepted into my volunteer activity.

Some schools value longevity of volunteer experience more than total hours (6 months+ typically, 1 school was looking best case scenario for 1 yrs + volunteer experience)

For LORs, many schools want an old instructor of yours, this may be school specific given you're from outside the US, my bet is that you'd do well with at least 1 letter from an old science professor, provided they can write the letter in English? Beyond that, "influential" is less important than a writer who can candidly assess you as a med school applicant, one of my LOR writers is a charge nurse who got to know me well in a clinical setting.

In your case, I'd suggest 1 letter from an old teacher, one from an NGO you'd volunteered with, and 1 from the clinical volunteer office you'll be volunteering for. I'd doubt that being friends with a high level person who could assess you as a friend would hold much weight compared to people who knew you in a volunteer setting over some time.

 

[DrMidlife]

Uh oh. I think we have bigger problems than shadowing & volunteering.

Are you up to speed on foreign transcript services? Aware that you probably have to take the premed prereqs at a US school (which would give you current academic LORs)? Look for posts from ScottishChap in this forum for current info.

Also, are you aware of the insane competition for medical school in the US? There are 45,000 well-qualified MD applicants every year, and just 18,000 get seats. There are another 4500 seats at DO schools, with the same level of competitiveness. Graduates have well over $200k in debt on the other side, and depending on your immigration status, you might not be eligible for loans.

So, these recommendations we're making are to help you compete with the 45,000 youngsters who have been getting ready to apply to med school for 5+ years.

-Clinical volunteering: again, how much is it required in terms time spent? I have seen students on this forum volunteering for almost an year.

I did 3 years, 4 hrs/wk in an ER. Would have done more if I'd had time.

-LoR: I came to the US with a Masters degree just a few years ago.

This is where I thought "uh oh."

I really dont know anybody enfluential enough who can write me a LoR.

Influential doesn't matter. Med schools want you to demonstrate that credentialed academic faculty got to know you well enough to vouch for your ability to master material.

I am self employed. How should I go about this?

Lots of people get ready to apply to med school while working. That includes volunteering, shadowing and taking coursework. Usually at night.

A high ranking deptartment head at a well recognized private school is a friend of mine. We didnt work together but acted in a play! I am sure she can endorse me but will it count?

No.

I have done good amount of volunteer work with NGOs and such clubs and held board positions; completely non Medical field. Will LoR from such organization head work? How can I make my case strong?

This is great extracurricular experience, and it will look good on your application. I'd suggest you get at least one letter from an NGO org head who worked with you directly.

The average med school requires a minimum of 2 letters from science faculty and 1 letter from non-science faculty. Some schools require a 4th letter from non-faculty. Some schools don't even want non-faculty letters.

Hope this helps.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Don't forget, while you're shadowing, you can ask questions and demonstrate your desire to learn (as well as your existing level of knowledge on certain topics).

If you do an outstanding job and show your brilliance, that may be an opportunity for a great letter.