Baylor vs Dartmouth

[DoctorDreamer]

Hey, all! I was all set to go to Oklahoma, and then I came off four waitlists this month (Georgetown, Dartmouth, Colorado, and Baylor). I've already released Georgetown and Colorado, and I'm planning to release Oklahoma after financial aid offers.

However, I am completely at a loss between Baylor and Dartmouth.

I was praying that I would just get into one of them, and I was thrilled to be going to Dartmouth a week ago, and then when I found out about Baylor yesterday, my immediate response was CRAP.

I truly love both schools, and while I am thrilled and blessed to have this decision, I need help making it.

I don't like heat, so Baylor has the negative on the weather. BUT, my family is in Oklahoma, so it's much closer to home.

Dartmouth would be more of a new experience... Different coast, little town, different culture, etc. But Baylor has the excitement of a new city.

At Dartmouth I'd be stuck trying to rent at outrageous rates. At Baylor I'd have to find a way to buy (instate after a year of owning property.)

Costs will probably be comparable after finaid offers.

I felt more at home at Dartmouth, but I felt like Baylor was more fun.

I love the Baylor curriculum to death... my favorite of any school (maybe tied with Emory), but residency directors don't seem to like Baylor students because they're pampered, and I probably won't want to stay in Texas for my residency (I like change).

BUT Dartmouth students match INCREDIBLY well... If you look at their match list, they match primarily at Harvard, UCSF, Mayo, etc.

I love the outdoors, but I also love the city life. I don't have friends in either place, but I make them easily.

Any experiences, ideas, insights, helpful hints, etc?

Thanks!

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[TheRealMD]

So in other words, you have no clue what you want?

Flip a coin I say if everything really is equal. I for one wish I had applied to more east coast schools since I've never lived there before. Or a school that's a lot smaller and more personalized. Sometimes it's good to go FAR away from what you know.

And since both would be about equal in price (according to you), that argument is out. I'd ignore match lists though, since a lot of people at Baylor are from Texas and would like to stay in Texas. Dartmouth has a higher OOS%, and people like to match back closer to home so I wouldn't let the concentration of Baylor matches in Texas fool you.


Up to you.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Baylor if you're particularly attached to the Texas-Oklahoma area.

Otherwise, I'd think about heading to DMS!

 

[chad5871]

Congratulations on getting into some truly great schools! From what I understand, trying to analyze schools' match lists can be a bit inaccurate, as there is a LOT more that goes into where you match than just what school you graduate from. Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of advice because, while I love Baylor as a school (my brother and sister-in-law graduated from their undergrad) and as a hospital (my Dad had heart surgery there), I absolutely hate Houston. I lived there for two years and couldn't wait to be done - it just never "clicked" with me. I don't really know too much about Dartmouth except that it has a great reputation (and Meredith Grey went there LOL).

Hopefully some others can offer a bit more helpful advice. Good luck and congratulations!

 

[TheRealMD]

Congratulations on getting into some truly great schools! From what I understand, trying to analyze schools' match lists can be a bit inaccurate, as there is a LOT more that goes into where you match than just what school you graduate from. Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of advice because, while I love Baylor as a school (my brother and sister-in-law graduated from their undergrad) and as a hospital (my Dad had heart surgery there), I absolutely hate Houston. I lived there for two years and couldn't wait to be done - it just never "clicked" with me. I don't really know too much about Dartmouth except that it has a great reputation (and Meredith Grey went there LOL).

Hopefully some others can offer a bit more helpful advice. Good luck and congratulations!

Baylor University and Baylor College of Medicine are not affiliated and haven't been for over 40 years!

 

[Danbo1957]

Two main differences:

Houston versus Hanover for four years, two more differing places couldn't exist.

Medical facilities: Texas Medical Center versus...?

The other thing to consider is that you will most likely match to a Northeastern residency after Dartmouth Med School - which means there is a good chance that you'll work there too. Baylor students stay local, and want to - there are five residency chances in Houston alone, and another two dozen in Texas.

 

[chad5871]

Baylor University and Baylor College of Medicine are not affiliated and haven't been for over 40 years!

I know.... but I still am very fond of the "Baylor" name (even though I realize that means absolutely nothing).

And yes, I do know that they're separated by about 160 miles.

 

[TheRealMD]

go to Dartmouth and i'll buy you a bottle of the local moonshine

And have a bed reserved at the hospital too eh? Make sure to call ahead!

 

[flip26]

Dartmouth will be heavily populated with Ivy grads, most of them from well-to-do backgrounds...Baylor is dominated by Texans...do either of these situations excite you or give you any pause?

That whole "yee-haw TEXAS" BS wears thin...but I am not sure if I would fit in with the Ivy rich kid atmosphere of Dartmouth...

PS - check your inbox...

 

[DoctorDreamer]

Thanks... I think what worries me about Baylor is the fact that their graduates are ranked lowly by residency directors (whether or not they want to stay in Texas, other residencies don't think too highly of them... That's just what I heard from some rankings... Not that I think that)... And Baylor has the huge student body and really hot weather...

But on the other hand, Dartmouth has a tiny student body (which also scares me), is in the middle of nowhere with ice half the year, and doesn't have Baylor's incredible curriculum...

Tentatively, I think I'd like to match on a coast, either East coast (like Boston) or in Cali... I don't know if either school would help or prevent me more from doing so.

For those who said Dartmouth, why?

Anyone with strong feelings about Baylor opposed to other schools...?

We all know they're both incredible, but does anyone have more insight than that?

 

[BaylorLion]

It sounds like you are leaning more towards going to Dartmouth, and I'd advise you to go with your gut when all else is equal. That said, I don't think we've had any trouble sending people to the West Coast or the top programs in the South or the Midwest - the Northeast is more troublesome for specialties like Internal Medicine (which brings out the intellectual egoism of the Ivies like nothing else) - this year we're sending plenty of people to places like UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Scripps and UW on the West Coast and WashU, Vanderbilt, Duke, Hopkins and Michigan as well as a trickle of people out to MGH, B&W and Penn. But how much of the Match List is dependent on the preferences of the students vs. the ability of the students to get into a program is always a tricky deal - I'd say that as long as you see people going places you'd like to go, you're probably good to go as long as you as an individual do well.

You're gonna meet great attendings and bad attendings wherever you go, and it's well-nigh impossible to differentiate between the two unless you ever meet someone who had significant clinical experiences at both schools (and even then, there's always the question of whether your sample is representative or not). I think most people would agree that the depth and breadth of research and clinical experience at Baylor certainly beats Dartmouth - it's a function of the TMC being the largest medical center in the world and a major tertiary care center with places like Texas Heart, MD Anderson, etc etc and Baylor being a tippy-top recipient of NIH and other research funds. But you'll find what you need to develop into an excellent doctor (and outstanding residency candidate) anywhere, so if you feel Dartmouth is a better fit for you, go where you think you'll be positioned to perform the best.

I will say it sounds like you really want to go to Dartmouth, so I'd say go for it.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

wow shes really confused lol....Imma say you should go with dartmouth..but honestly I have no clue

 

[DoctorDreamer]

ChubbyChaser is right... I am totally and completely confused and befuddled.

Honestly, neither place has ideal weather, so that may as well be a wash. Houston is a little big for my tastes, but Hanover is a little small.

I also don't know how I feel about class sizes... I like the idea of Dartmouth's small class with a tight-knit atmosphere, but I am also terrified that is would be too small, and I lean towards Baylor's huge class with lots of different people and possibilities.

For each school, the pros and cons wash each other out.

The only major win one school has is Baylor's curriculum blew me away. BUT, I don't feel comfortable choosing a school based on one aspect.

For those who are saying Dartmouth... Why? Not because you *think* that's where it sounds like I want to go... Why do you think it would be the better choice?

And for those saying Baylor is superior, how so? I do want to do a little research, but a superb clinical education is far more important to me...

Thanks!

 

[SnoPearl]

I can't make any comparisons to Baylor, but I thought Dartmouth was a little bit depressing for me. Nature is great and relaxing, especially in the spring and summer, but I would feel so much more lonely with nothing but snow and trees on all sides for many months in the wintertime. That combined with a small class size (where it's harder to find people that you click with), made me wary that I might not be very happy there. I also wasn't fond of the facilities, they were old and dark (again, felt depressing). The hospital is really nice, but has very limited patient diversity, if that's important to you. Those are just some reflections on my visit there.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I think that Baylor's grading scheme is such that it's basically A, B, D, F...something to consider.

 

[happytograduate]

Just FYI, from USNews and Report 2009 Rankings (which DOES matter for competitive residencies):
Dartmouth: Research rank - 31; Primary Care rank - 13
Tuition and fees: 40,675

Baylor: Research rank - 13; Primary Care rank - 7
Out-of-State Tuition and fees: $25,948 (which after one year you're in state if you buy property right?). I know its private, but I think for funding purposes as all the Texas med schools are funded by Texas, instaters pay lower tuition.

Dartmouth Grading:
Basic Science = Honors/Pass/Fail
Clinical Clerkships = Honors/Pass/Fail

Baylor
Basic Science = I think it is Pass/Fail the first year, and Honors/High Pass/Pass/Marginal Pass/Fail (like ABCDF) for 2nd year
Clinical Clerkships = Honors/High Pass/Pass/Marginal Pass/Fail

"but residency directors don't seem to like Baylor students because they're pampered" --- How do you know that? Did you happen to have residency directors as friends or is are you just going by rumor? I have never heard of there being a negative bias against Baylor College of Medicine students.

From a financial standpoint and the fact that Baylor lets you take Step 1 whenever you want, I don't know about Dartmouth, I would say Baylor is a great bet. You also finish basic sciences earlier and start clerkships earlier so you get a lot more elective time than most medical students, who only get it in their fourth year.

As far as weather, you will appreciate NO SNOW when driving to school, than in the Northeast where it can get very bad. As said by others, match lists can be deceiving as most people who go to NE schools are from the NE, most people at Baylor are from Texas, and thus would naturally want to stay in Texas.

"The only major win one school has is Baylor's curriculum blew me away. BUT, I don't feel comfortable choosing a school based on one aspect." -----> That is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect. It's not like you're going to a school because of the architecture of the buildings. You have to like the curriculum structure.

"And for those saying Baylor is superior, how so? I do want to do a little research, but a superb clinical education is far more important to me..." -----> I think you answered your question then, of whether to go to Baylor or Dartmouth:

You LOVE the basic science curriculum AND you can't get a better clinical education than in the Texas Medical Center where you have places like MD Anderson and Texas Heart Institute. If you do want to do a little research, guess what, the best place you can do it is at Baylor and/or the Texas Medical Center as it gets a LOT of NIH funding as you can see in the Research rankings of USWNR.

You have your answer: Baylor College of Medicine

 

[TheRealMD]

Responding to above:

Baylor is now always H/HP/P/MP/F. They stopped their trial of P/F in the first semester back in 2004. Also, the OP already said that costs would be roughly equal.

 

[sssddd]

People told me that Baylor offers better stuff. Not sure what but i can find out

 

[DoctorDreamer]

Also, the OP already said that costs would be roughly equal.

What I meant is that I don't have finaid offers, yet, and for the purposes of this discussion I don't want to look at finances. My first year at Baylor would be about $55k+ in loans, followed by about $35k/year (I *think*) without scholarships, which I doubt I'd get coming off the waitlist. If I understood what DMS's finaid office told me, I'll probably be taking out between $20K and $30k a year there... So until finaid offers, I don't want to worry about comparing that aspect.

How do current and past Balor students feel about the grading? Does it make the students competitive?

How about DMS students... Do you feel like it's less competitive because of the grading, or do you still think it's really competitive?

Does anyone at DMS think it's tough having the tiny class...?

How about students at Baylor... Does the class seem disconnected because it's so large?

Does anyone with experience know whether Baylor students actually get to take advantage of all the TMC offers, or do they still just get average rotation experiences that are in the TMC?

 

[ihatescience]

I would go with Baylor-- much better hospital and teaching facilities, from what I gathered. Either way, both schools are amazing. I agree with SnoPearl re: the depressing part. But, you can always hang out with the undergrads at Dartmouth...!

 

[NaTay]

DrDreamer go to Baylor and join me as an OOS I have the same issue...I got accepted off the waitlist at WashU, but I think I'm choosing Baylor because of its great curriculum, friendly students, and unbeatable tuition.

 

[BaylorLion]

DrDreamer go to Baylor and join me as an OOS I have the same issue...I got accepted off the waitlist at WashU, but I think I'm choosing Baylor because of its great curriculum, friendly students, and unbeatable tuition.

Welcome to Houston - my cousin is a 2nd year at WashU, so feel free to PM me if you have any questions or last-minute concerns! I have some additional thoughts on the matter, but don't want to air them publicly. But I think you are making the best choice.

 

[sit down lucy]

.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

Financial Aid Info Just In:

Still waiting on my official financial aid award from Baylor, but they did give me a $12k/year scholarship, so assuming everything else is loans:

Baylor (if I buy a condo): Approx. $107,000 in loans.
Baylor (if I rent): Approx. $146,000 in loans

And Dartmouth gave me a $30,500 scholarship this year that should stay the same if my family situation stays the same... Making my DMS debt a total of approx. $116,000.

Any thoughts?

 

[flip26]

Financial Aid Info Just In:

Still waiting on my official financial aid award from Baylor, but they did give me a $12k/year scholarship, so assuming everything else is loans:

Baylor (if I buy a condo): Approx. $107,000 in loans.
Baylor (if I rent): Approx. $146,000 in loans

And Dartmouth gave me a $30,500 scholarship this year that should stay the same if my family situation stays the same... Making my DMS debt a total of approx. $116,000.

Any thoughts?

Whatever you decide, I would toss out the "buy a condo" factor for this choice of schools and just compare apples to apples...buying a condo is much easier said than done, particularly if you have to qualify for a loan - the mortgage market is a mess right now, not to mention that buying a condo and flipping it in 4 years is not always the slam dunk that people seem to think it is...just ask anyone who is trying to sell any residential real estate ANYWHERE today...

 

[koolbeenz]

What do YOU want? In the end, it'll be you that has to live with your decision so only you can make the choice. Which school do you picture yourself more comfortable and happy at? If the schools are truly exactly the same, then go with the one that costs less. If you can't say they are exactly the same, then you must prefer one over the other. Good luck!

 

[172858]

yea, just go to baylor.

that's pretty much the answer to anything you can throw out there.

just go to baylor...

 

[wahooza]

yea, just go to baylor.

that's pretty much the answer to anything you can throw out there.

just go to baylor...

go to dartmouth. houston = not good

 

[radi0headfan]

to add support to comments regarding the greatness and flexibility of baylor's curriculum, the avg. step 1 scores from last yr was quoted at a 238 in their handbook ..i found that real impressive ..dont know too much about dartmouth except that they were the first school to reject me

houston's really not as bad as some ppl are making it out to be...chances are these ppl have spent very little or no time in TX and have a skewed outlook ..you can find almost anything that you can find on the coasts in Houston...huge city with lots to do ..ive been in TX most my life and have been itching for a change, so if i can put up with at least another 4 yrs, i think you can too

 

[DMBUGA34]

DMS Student here, PM me any specific questions as I don't browse this board very often

Overall I enjoyed my time here, and I'm very happy with my medical education (let's see how it holds up when residency starts!) I came from Georgia to try something completely different from what I was used to, and I think it was definitely worth it.

That said, location is a huge factor, and Hanover/Lebanon couldn't be any more different than Houston. If, in your mind, everything cancels itself out, location is probably the most important predictor of how happy you'll be.

I think that most of my classmates planned on only spending 4 yrs here. It's a calm, friendly (for new england), environment w/minimal distractions. There are no traffic issues, it's quiet at night, you can jog/bike anywhere, and there's little to no crime. All of those factors combine to make it a fairly peaceful place to spend your chaotic med school years. However, come 4th year, when you start to have some time off, and you've already done everything that can be done around here, it does get slow.

If you can't see yourself enjoying winter activities like skiing, snowboarding, sledding, ice skating, ice hockey, snow mobiles, snow shoeing, following Dartmouth Hockey, etc . . . then you should have some great hobbies (reading, writing, art, video games, movies, or research) because the winters are definitely long here in the upper valley. It's more the length, than the actual temps that makes winters here rough.

Springs take a while to warm up, but Summers and Falls are unbeatable - especially if you explore the state. There are some great (and easy) mountain hikes overlooking crystal clear lakes, as well as local farms to pick apples or homemade cider. There's lots of pickup soccer, basketball, and tennis. Boston, NYC, Burlington, and Montreal aren't too far away if you like roadtrips.

On the other hand, shopping options aren't great, the movie theatres don't have stadium seating, there are only a handful of bars/pubs, you don't really want to spend time at the local dance club, and the dating scene is very hit or miss - although not too bad for girls since the Tuckies are always on the prowl.

Again, location is the biggest factor. You'll have no trouble finding research, service, or international opportunities. You'll match well without being limited to a specific region of the country. The medical center is beautiful, friendly, and a great place to train - though you'll have to do some away rotations (that was actually a big plus for me).

 

[searun]

I definitely would choose Dartmouth. But in the interests of full disclosure, Texas gives me the creeps, I hate the death penalty, and I love to snowboard, so, yeah, Dartmouth is a no brainer for me.