Becoming ABFAS certified

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Forcewielder

Forcewielder

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Anyone care to give an opinion on ABFAS certification? I recently gathered enough cases to submit them and I'm considering when I should do it. Obviously they'd recommend asap. However, I've got 5 years left to submit cases and I feel like waiting awhile would be beneficial. First of all, it allows me more time before my recertification which is 10yrs from when I certify. I highly doubt I'm going to recertify more than once so I can get up to 25yrs if I wait, but if I certify and pass 1st attempt I could be stuck with only 21yrs without a 2nd recertification.

Another benefit of waiting is somewhat cynical. I believe the ABFAS is highly likely to pass anyone that meets requirements and is in their final attempt or 2. I've heard they're extremely strict in grading with guys that have a lot of time left which allows them to retake the exam. They wouldn't want to screw themselves out of a lifetime of dues by failing someone in their last year, but failing someone early on means additional revenue and forces them to "improve".

A final consideration is I believe the cost of maintaining my abfas certification is higher than the cost of maintaining the qualified status. I've already got my job that I want so there's no real need to do this quickly in my opinion.

Thoughts?
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Go ABPM!!! 💪 I’ve had no issues securing my current MSG gig (or imminent hospital gig) with ABPM only.

ABFAS is still a great feather for your hat and will certainly help with job opportunities.

Safest solution is to go with both. Some people get ABPM first, once they get ABFAS they dont renew ABPM. To each their own.

( @Feli will come after me but that’s OK 😅 )
 
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They don’t really do the 10 year recert anymore. There are quarterly self exams you do now which sounds way better than what was done previously. I would do it now and get it done.
 
It is better to get it done.

(this is assuming you have at least a 25% or so surplus of cases you have access to all pre/post notes and XR... if you have barely just enough, wait a year)

Even if you fail cases (usually documentation more than anything), you will learn from the process.

You sure won't be less busy in a year or two than you are now.
It is much more of a hustle than you think with hospital audit case list, screenshotting XRs, assembling progress notes. If you can, get it done.

The cost of case review is only about $500... use your CME or have facility pay for it just like any license. You are technically right about saving a bit of dues qual vs cert, but you should also ask for a raise or market your status as soon as you pass board cert. Further, you can trash ABPM and their dues as soon as you have ABFAS board cert. So, it actually saves you $.... look at it that way.
 
Appreciate the responses. Didn't know a lot of that. I feel like we get so little info on boards certification and it's a constantly changing thing. Makes me almost want to go with ABPM only because of the simplicity and fac they allow the title of boards certified prior to case collection which is a major hindrance in job applications having to explain why I'm not technically boards certified yet...
 
Forcewielder said:
Appreciate the responses. Didn't know a lot of that. I feel like we get so little info on boards certification and it's a constantly changing thing. Makes me almost want to go with ABPM only because of the simplicity and fac they allow the title of boards certified prior to case collection which is a major hindrance in job applications having to explain why I'm not technically boards certified yet...
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Yeah, do ABPM until you are ABFAS cert... that is what nearly everyone does.
Some might keep both if hospital is paying for it.
It is more wanting to be "board cert" early on for insurances than jobs (nearly any job that's half awake knows ABFAS qual is much harder than ABPM cert).

That is the ABPM selling point: easy and instant board cert and you can always pass them if you can't pass ABFAS (precisely why ABPM allows 8 years: because ABFAS allows 7 years). ABPM (previously ABPOPPM) is, and always has been, an alternate board for podiatry. To really go dumpster diving, ABMSP is the alternate alternate fake board (not APMA recognized) that would be for DPMs who can't even pass ABPM (which is getting to be almost 0% among 3yr trained).

ABFAS will give you many more options.... everyone knows ABPM is pretty much 100% pass and ABFAS is actually challenging. Doing the ABFAS Foot cert puts you into the top half of pods for jobs, raises, privileging, etc. RRA cert is even more rare. You will majorly limit yourself on jobs if you don't do ABFAS at all, and it sounds like you can probably be ABFAS cert next year if you want to be. GL

Shiyuan said:
...Some people get ABPM first, once they get ABFAS they dont renew ABPM. To each their own.

( @Feli will come after me but that’s OK 😅 )
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I agree with the end part above.

As to " I’ve had no issues securing XYZ with ABPM only," that is a huge risk to take.
Most DPMs should definitely avoid limiting themselves if they can reasonably pass ABFAS.
 
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Utvolsdpm said:
They don’t really do the 10 year recert anymore. There are quarterly self exams you do now which sounds way better than what was done previously. I would do it now and get it done.
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I prefer the quarterly self-assessments by far to the previous 10 year do-or-die setup for so many reasons.

OP, get your certification as soon as you're able. Get it over with so you don't have to d*** around with it any more.
 
Submit now. Dont wait. You want as many chances to pass as you can. I dont know if your conspiracy theory on passing all late test takers is acurate or not but if you fail and need to retake you could be screwed.

Just get it over with.
 
Forcewielder said:
Anyone care to give an opinion on ABFAS certification? I recently gathered enough cases to submit them and I'm considering when I should do it. Obviously they'd recommend asap. However, I've got 5 years left to submit cases and I feel like waiting awhile would be beneficial. First of all, it allows me more time before my recertification which is 10yrs from when I certify. I highly doubt I'm going to recertify more than once so I can get up to 25yrs if I wait, but if I certify and pass 1st attempt I could be stuck with only 21yrs without a 2nd recertification.

Another benefit of waiting is somewhat cynical. I believe the ABFAS is highly likely to pass anyone that meets requirements and is in their final attempt or 2. I've heard they're extremely strict in grading with guys that have a lot of time left which allows them to retake the exam. They wouldn't want to screw themselves out of a lifetime of dues by failing someone in their last year, but failing someone early on means additional revenue and forces them to "improve".

A final consideration is I believe the cost of maintaining my abfas certification is higher than the cost of maintaining the qualified status. I've already got my job that I want so there's no real need to do this quickly in my opinion.

Thoughts?
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Everything you said is beyond dumb. Get certified asap. Keep collecting cases. Rinse repeat until you pass. I feel like I am taking crazy pills
 
Wanted to bring up some questions about ABFAS Certification that some may have answers to or to see if others have questioned the same things themselves.

I’m approaching 6 years in practice. I’m foot certified and am struggling with passing the qualifying exams for rearfoot. I have enough rearfoot cases for case review, but obviously, can’t get there unless I pass the qualifying exams. I once again failed by 10 points (500 is passing) and really am just disappointed with the whole process.
  1. Why can you only take the exams once per year? Is this the same for other specialties with board certification examinations?
  2. If you fail, why can you not review the items you got wrong/go through your thought process with a board member of each question or patient simulation?
  3. Why is there not a true outline (the current one is not an outline) or study guide for the examinations?
Yes, I have done Board Wizards, etc. Most recently, read McGlam in its entirety and I honestly thought that was the best thing I ever did and that will still benefit me in my practice even if it didn't equate to me passing the exam.

It’s tough when these examinations cost thousands of dollars to take and then on top of that, you have to block clinic/ reschedule surgeries for that test day so that is an additional cost or lost money.

I can't help but think it's all a money grab. I've spoken with some board member higher ups several times and they always say the same thing to prepare, but they can't talk about specifics with your exam, etc. Why the heck not? We spend so much money on these exams and we can't go over specific questions to better prepare for future attempts or to help with the treatment of patients?

I’ve read on here that if you can’t pass the qualifying exams you shouldn’t be practicing and I think that is complete garbage. For those who have passed, you have no idea if you passed with a 500 (bare minimum to pass) or if you had a perfect score. I never failed a single test until ABFAS, was top of my class, went to a decent residency, and here I am.

I'm not restricted with my surgical privileges with not have rearfoot certification, I can and do treat all aspects of the foot and ankle, both in and out of the operating room. So I guess it just makes sense to be done trying for rearfoot.

Wanted to see if anyone had some answers out there or if they are in a similar situation.
 
Beetlejuice7 said:
  1. Why can you only take the exams once per year? Is this the same for other specialties with board certification examinations?
  2. If you fail, why can you not review the items you got wrong/go through your thought process with a board member of each question or patient simulation?
  3. Why is there not a true outline (the current one is not an outline) or study guide for the examinations?
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The thing about the process is that even though it's costly for a practicing surgeon to take time away from clinic/OR to take the test, in theory, it's even more costly for practicing surgeons to write/organize/administer the test, so there's a limited number of exam administrations per year to keep costs down. Likewise there's probably a limited question bank, so they can't be sharing old questions and exam outlines to it for just anyone.

Please do not misunderstand me. I think both of our boards are corrupt money grabs, because they certainly appear to be that way. But for all the trash we talk about ABPM, they're at least transparent about their process.
 
Beetlejuice7 said:
Wanted to bring up some questions about ABFAS Certification that some may have answers to or to see if others have questioned the same things themselves.

I’m approaching 6 years in practice. I’m foot certified and am struggling with passing the qualifying exams for rearfoot. I have enough rearfoot cases for case review, but obviously, can’t get there unless I pass the qualifying exams. I once again failed by 10 points (500 is passing) and really am just disappointed with the whole process.
  1. Why can you only take the exams once per year? Is this the same for other specialties with board certification examinations?
  2. If you fail, why can you not review the items you got wrong/go through your thought process with a board member of each question or patient simulation?
  3. Why is there not a true outline (the current one is not an outline) or study guide for the examinations?
Yes, I have done Board Wizards, etc. Most recently, read McGlam in its entirety and I honestly thought that was the best thing I ever did and that will still benefit me in my practice even if it didn't equate to me passing the exam.

It’s tough when these examinations cost thousands of dollars to take and then on top of that, you have to block clinic/ reschedule surgeries for that test day so that is an additional cost or lost money.

I can't help but think it's all a money grab. I've spoken with some board member higher ups several times and they always say the same thing to prepare, but they can't talk about specifics with your exam, etc. Why the heck not? We spend so much money on these exams and we can't go over specific questions to better prepare for future attempts or to help with the treatment of patients?

I’ve read on here that if you can’t pass the qualifying exams you shouldn’t be practicing and I think that is complete garbage. For those who have passed, you have no idea if you passed with a 500 (bare minimum to pass) or if you had a perfect score. I never failed a single test until ABFAS, was top of my class, went to a decent residency, and here I am.

I'm not restricted with my surgical privileges with not have rearfoot certification, I can and do treat all aspects of the foot and ankle, both in and out of the operating room. So I guess it just makes sense to be done trying for rearfoot.

Wanted to see if anyone had some answers out there or if they are in a similar situation.
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So I have the same issue. To simplify an explanation of my issues with the cbps exam: I cannot comprehend how I can pass the labs/imaging/diagnostic procedure section for the foot but somehow when I work up the patient the exact same way for the rearfoot and ankle every time it results in a fail. It is beyond perplexing.
 
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I'm sorry but if you can't tell me what the most common complication is after this procedure below when done in the lateral decubitus position with a 15 blade for the skin incision instead of a 10 blade.
Screenshot 2024-04-05 at 4.35.12 PM.png



You don't deserve to do surgery.
 
In all seriousness, I passed all four first try in the fall. What I'll never forget is I had ankle fracture questions on the foot exam and bunion questions on the rear foot exam. They really don't format the exams well or delineate the questions/material well.
The imaging is terrible. I really mean terrible.
The "resources" for studying that they recommend are the New McGlamry's, which is full of errors and contradictions, one paragraph says not to do this, the next says to make sure you always do what we just told you not to do. Not to mention it's written by residents, I understand residents are smart but I don't want to read what my co-resident has to say on the topic, I want someone who has been doing this for years.

I don't know how to study for it, I don't know what to tell you to study for it.

Having said that I had an interview last week and I told the practice owner that I'm board qualified in both foot/RRA and they responded with "99% of resident's are qualified by the time they graduate".

So I'm assuming most residents pass and get both qualifications. I'm not sure how many get certified but that's my problem in x years.
 
So I received my results yesterday as well for the CBPS. Failed.
Honestly, I'm shocked. I left that exam feeling like I got above 90%. I probably finished each question in around 4-5 minutes.
I did every CBPS rearfoot question on BoardWizardars. I did the ABFAS practice exam a couple of times. I based my examination on how they demonstrated we should answer the questions (through the ABFAS practice exam).
Every time I wrote something down for the physical exam, diagnostic exam, etc the test would show me I was in the right direction.
Ex) STJ injection-->Patient now feels no pain to STJ.
Failed physical exam, diagnostics procedures/labs/images, and diagnosis section. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I did wrong. All the X-rays, MRIs, and CTs were ordered. No harm was done to the patient. I don't get it.
I perform rearfoot and advanced surgery on a semi-weekly basis. I am part of a large surgical practice. In my state, I need the RRA certification, which sucks. This is holding me back and I don't know what else to do.
 
Tassadar said:
So I received my results yesterday as well for the CBPS. Failed.
Honestly, I'm shocked. I left that exam feeling like I got above 90%. I probably finished each question in around 4-5 minutes.
I did every CBPS rearfoot question on BoardWizardars. I did the ABFAS practice exam a couple of times. I based my examination on how they demonstrated we should answer the questions (through the ABFAS practice exam).
Every time I wrote something down for the physical exam, diagnostic exam, etc the test would show me I was in the right direction.
Ex) STJ injection-->Patient now feels no pain to STJ.
Failed physical exam, diagnostics procedures/labs/images, and diagnosis section. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I did wrong. All the X-rays, MRIs, and CTs were ordered. No harm was done to the patient. I don't get it.
I perform rearfoot and advanced surgery on a semi-weekly basis. I am part of a large surgical practice. In my state, I need the RRA certification, which sucks. This is holding me back and I don't know what else to do.
Click to expand...
I am shocked.

Playing starcraft and memorizing build algorithms/tech trees is the perfect practice for all the clicking on the CBPS. May you rise again as a dragoon and become one with the khala!
 
Beetlejuice7 said:
Wanted to bring up some questions about ABFAS Certification that some may have answers to or to see if others have questioned the same things themselves.

I’m approaching 6 years in practice. I’m foot certified and am struggling with passing the qualifying exams for rearfoot. I have enough rearfoot cases for case review, but obviously, can’t get there unless I pass the qualifying exams. I once again failed by 10 points (500 is passing) and really am just disappointed with the whole process.
  1. Why can you only take the exams once per year? Is this the same for other specialties with board certification examinations?
  2. If you fail, why can you not review the items you got wrong/go through your thought process with a board member of each question or patient simulation?
  3. Why is there not a true outline (the current one is not an outline) or study guide for the examinations?
Yes, I have done Board Wizards, etc. Most recently, read McGlam in its entirety and I honestly thought that was the best thing I ever did and that will still benefit me in my practice even if it didn't equate to me passing the exam.

It’s tough when these examinations cost thousands of dollars to take and then on top of that, you have to block clinic/ reschedule surgeries for that test day so that is an additional cost or lost money.

I can't help but think it's all a money grab. I've spoken with some board member higher ups several times and they always say the same thing to prepare, but they can't talk about specifics with your exam, etc. Why the heck not? We spend so much money on these exams and we can't go over specific questions to better prepare for future attempts or to help with the treatment of patients?

I’ve read on here that if you can’t pass the qualifying exams you shouldn’t be practicing and I think that is complete garbage. For those who have passed, you have no idea if you passed with a 500 (bare minimum to pass) or if you had a perfect score. I never failed a single test until ABFAS, was top of my class, went to a decent residency, and here I am.

I'm not restricted with my surgical privileges with not have rearfoot certification, I can and do treat all aspects of the foot and ankle, both in and out of the operating room. So I guess it just makes sense to be done trying for rearfoot.

Wanted to see if anyone had some answers out there or if they are in a similar situation.
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You will do just fine without RRA (you just said: it does nothing at your facilities).

I would let it go... if you can't pass the didactic RRA and CBPS RRA after multiple tries, chances seem slim to pass RRA cases either.. and you're basically out of time at this point. The RRA qual exam is hard even right out of residency. It gets much harder afterwards once that journal/book knowledge is rearview mirror (I know, I did re-qual on it years after residency... had to study a good bit).

I passed the RRA quals (twice) and do RRA (not a ton) and will do the board cert once or twice, but it could go either way. It won't have any real effect aside from pride. Hardly any pods at my facilities even have Foot cert (majority have qual or nothing)... I can't think of any who have RRA.
 
Tassadar said:
So I received my results yesterday as well for the CBPS. Failed.
Honestly, I'm shocked. I left that exam feeling like I got above 90%. I probably finished each question in around 4-5 minutes.
I did every CBPS rearfoot question on BoardWizardars. I did the ABFAS practice exam a couple of times. I based my examination on how they demonstrated we should answer the questions (through the ABFAS practice exam).
Every time I wrote something down for the physical exam, diagnostic exam, etc the test would show me I was in the right direction.
Ex) STJ injection-->Patient now feels no pain to STJ.
Failed physical exam, diagnostics procedures/labs/images, and diagnosis section. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I did wrong. All the X-rays, MRIs, and CTs were ordered. No harm was done to the patient. I don't get it.
I perform rearfoot and advanced surgery on a semi-weekly basis. I am part of a large surgical practice. In my state, I need the RRA certification, which sucks. This is holding me back and I don't know what else to do.
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It is no big deal.
CBPS is set up so that when you miss a key imaging pic (by not doing that test or examination), and you get off on the wrong track, you will lose a lot. We are talking mistake ankle valgus for a flat foot, fail to dx a neoplasm, fail to realize the pt has autoimmune dz or PAD, decide Charcot is osteo, etc. It is easy to start wrong and end up way wrong (in terms of what CBPS is asking for).

Why are you taking CBPS as an attending? Failed as resident?
It sounds like you're studying the right stuff yet failed multiple times (esp if you passed other sections)... I would keep studying and also enlist the help of a friend/classmate or two who passed. Go through cases and discuss them tutor style. Assuming you know the material, you are doing something wrong in the process (not showing the test what it wants... as important as knowing the info on CBPS).

Mainly, remember that if you have a job you like and/or pays well, then you are in the minority among DPMs. You have the harder part done if you make over 200k and get good cases... so you'll get the easier part (ABFAS).
 
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Random question on this topic… as I have stated in other threads before I am not going for RRA. I will however have somewhere between 10-15 RRA cases logged into PLS when I apply for foot cert this fall. The question is:

Is there any chance that one of my rearfoot cases will be pulled for the foot cert? There is one case in particular that I am terrified of being pulled because it didn’t go well, and I am certain I would fail if that case is pulled.

Thanks!
 
Utvolsdpm said:
So I have the same issue. To simplify an explanation of my issues with the cbps exam: I cannot comprehend how I can pass the labs/imaging/diagnostic procedure section for the foot but somehow when I work up the patient the exact same way for the rearfoot and ankle every time it results in a fail. It is beyond perplexing.
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I know, but I bet I know it better than you with failing.
 
PMG03470 said:
Random question on this topic… as I have stated in other threads before I am not going for RRA. I will however have somewhere between 10-15 RRA cases logged into PLS when I apply for foot cert this fall. The question is:

Is there any chance that one of my rearfoot cases will be pulled for the foot cert? There is one case in particular that I am terrified of being pulled because it didn’t go well, and I am certain I would fail if that case is pulled.

Thanks!
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Is it a case where you did both foot and rearfoot/ankle procedures? Even if you fail that case or a part of the case, that doesn't mean you'll fail all of the case review. I wouldn't worry about it till you get to that point and since you have a part of the surgery being rearfoot (or that's what I think you're saying) they may not even pull that one since it's for foot cert. Make sure that your documentation is sound, though, and that you justify what you did or what happened (patient was noncompliant, etc.).
 
Tassadar said:
So I received my results yesterday as well for the CBPS. Failed.
Honestly, I'm shocked. I left that exam feeling like I got above 90%. I probably finished each question in around 4-5 minutes.
I did every CBPS rearfoot question on BoardWizardars. I did the ABFAS practice exam a couple of times. I based my examination on how they demonstrated we should answer the questions (through the ABFAS practice exam).
Every time I wrote something down for the physical exam, diagnostic exam, etc the test would show me I was in the right direction.
Ex) STJ injection-->Patient now feels no pain to STJ.
Failed physical exam, diagnostics procedures/labs/images, and diagnosis section. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I did wrong. All the X-rays, MRIs, and CTs were ordered. No harm was done to the patient. I don't get it.
I perform rearfoot and advanced surgery on a semi-weekly basis. I am part of a large surgical practice. In my state, I need the RRA certification, which sucks. This is holding me back and I don't know what else to do.
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I hear you completely. Same exact experience I've had with the exams and similar practice currently. Does it HAVE to be ABFAS RRA Cert, though? Can it be something else or show them documentation of all the successful procedures you've done and the satisfied patients evidenced by surveys, phone calls, etc.?

As I stated before, I just don't understand it all and the fact that you have to wait A YEAR to take the exam again and maybe pass? Only to wait ANOTHER YEAR to maybe pass case review, which is a joke all in itself.
 
Feli said:
You will do just fine without RRA (you just said: it does nothing at your facilities).

I would let it go... if you can't pass the didactic RRA and CBPS RRA after multiple tries, chances seem slim to pass RRA cases either.. and you're basically out of time at this point. The RRA qual exam is hard even right out of residency. It gets much harder afterwards once that journal/book knowledge is rearview mirror (I know, I did re-qual on it years after residency... had to study a good bit).

I passed the RRA quals (twice) and do RRA (not a ton) and will do the board cert once or twice, but it could go either way. It won't have any real effect aside from pride. Hardly any pods at my facilities even have Foot cert (majority have qual or nothing)... I can't think of any who have RRA.
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Thanks a lot for your response. I agree, I just need to let it go. The sad part is that I really do feel that I would pass case review.

You said it, I have found that as I'm getting older, the more "real world" experience I obtain and it's harder to go back mentally to what the book answer is or should be when I know first hand it's sometimes a lot different in practice.

Just hurts my pride, but I should be grateful for my current position and what I have accomplished and continue to accomplish.
 
Personally, I wouldn't want to take a boards where the whole process is like entering a casino/playing a gacha game. Paying money until you get boards qualified/certified feels akin to playing until you win/trigger the pity timer which is just sad ("The next one will be it, I CAN FEEL IT."). And any reasonable person wouldn't trust a lotto winner's advice either - they got rich playing, why couldn't you? Keep spending, you'll get there eventually 🙂

In my opinion...

For those already trapped in the game, don't fall into the sunk cost fallacy. Walk away as soon as you can by get boards certified in ABPM or as far into ACFAS as you reasonably can - but remember to respect your own time and money. Do good work, regardless of what board you get qualified in. For podiatry in particular, good work includes knowing your limits - remember that you're still a physician, and that includes the social responsibility to "do no harm". Otherwise you just serve as a punching bag example of what podiatry's weakest link is with the resultant crappy outcomes.

For those just starting to play, get boards qualified/certified for the job you have/want and work from there. Anything extra is for pride. ABPM seems more than adequate for the majority of jobs not locked behind ACFAS-centric bylaws, which seem intellectually and legally flimsy as they currently are - although I would be happy to be proven wrong about this.
 
So I passed my RRA cbps and didactic first try but failed the foot cbps 1st time. I thought it was a fluke so I just retook the cbps foot without changing my approach and failed again. My 3rd attempt I used the shotgun approach. I ordered or did everything even when I knew exactly what the thing was, I'd order additional things just because... and I passed. Stupid, stupid exam...
 
Still haven’t decided if I want to pursue ABFAS since I’m planning to practice in smaller cities/rural (I grew up rural and liked it). I’ll probably just start logging for foot cert in case something changes but I think I’m going to pass on RRA cert.
 
Sole Badguy said:
Personally, I wouldn't want to take a boards where the whole process is like entering a casino/playing a gacha game. Paying money until you get boards qualified/certified feels akin to playing until you win/trigger the pity timer which is just sad ("The next one will be it, I CAN FEEL IT."). And any reasonable person wouldn't trust a lotto winner's advice either - they got rich playing, why couldn't you? Keep spending, you'll get there eventually 🙂

In my opinion...

For those already trapped in the game, don't fall into the sunk cost fallacy. Walk away as soon as you can by get boards certified in ABPM or as far into ACFAS as you reasonably can - but remember to respect your own time and money. Do good work, regardless of what board you get qualified in. For podiatry in particular, good work includes knowing your limits - remember that you're still a physician, and that includes the social responsibility to "do no harm". Otherwise you just serve as a punching bag example of what podiatry's weakest link is with the resultant crappy outcomes.

For those just starting to play, get boards qualified/certified for the job you have/want and work from there. Anything extra is for pride. ABPM seems more than adequate for the majority of jobs not locked behind ACFAS-centric bylaws, which seem intellectually and legally flimsy as they currently are - although I would be happy to be proven wrong about this.
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This is completely incorrect. ^^
It's a pretty simple process for ABFAS:

Pass didactic by prep.
Pass CBPS by prep and understanding the format.
Pass cert cases by documentation and doing decent surgery.

It's not random.
It is hard (compared to nearly any other podiatry exam).

Still, a lot of podiatry residencies have nearly 100% BQ pass rate year after year, and others repeatedly do much lower. Sure, re-takers have the advantage of knowing the format (as with any test), but theyre still dead if they never learned and studied enough.

ABFAS results is the quality of residents and their teaching, again and again. It is very passable, especially for those DPMs who did a quality residency. Others pass also, but it's tougher with a mediocre or low end pod residency. Make your own luck.
 
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Everyone stop. Just pay for board wizards and do it over and over and over again until you understand how they want you to take the test. Don't fight the process. Just learn how to take the test. You will win. I paid for board wizards. Took a week off from work on PTO. Studied board wizards and did every question and case multiple times. Passed all tests and case review the first time.

I did wait 3 years into practice before taking all of the exams to get plenty of diverse cases underneath my belt and experience which I do think helped me pass as well.

But learning to take their test is paramount. Pay for board wizards and just do it all. You will be fine.
 
Retrograde_Nail said:
Everyone stop. Just pay for board wizards and do it over and over and over again until you understand how they want you to take the test. Don't fight the process. Just learn how to take the test. You will win. I paid for board wizards. Took a week off from work on PTO. Studied board wizards and did every question and case multiple times. Passed all tests and case review the first time.

I did wait 3 years into practice before taking all of the exams to get plenty of diverse cases underneath my belt and experience which I do think helped me pass as well.

But learning to take their test is paramount. Pay for board wizards and just do it all. You will be fine.
Click to expand...

I mean I understand what your saying, but is this really how the process should work? Where the hard part is not the academics but the process? Currently, the test takers have to purchase the expensive test and then the suggestion is to spend another $500(?) for the prep. Why can't ABFAS actually create something comparable to board wizards? Or here is an idea, use some of that big ass cash reserve and buy the rights to board wizards material or make a deal with board wizards to provide it for every test taker at a discounted rate but included in the test? Is the cost of test prep prohibitive or that great? No, but it is frustrating when the process feels unnecessarily complex. I would compare it to the US tax system. The correct answer when it comes to taxes is have your accountant do it. However, the fact that an entire industry has built up to help people complete their taxes indicates how terrible the system is.

In truth, at this point I am just venting as I passed my cbps certifying (oh joy). However, it's fun to complain and in general I still dislike ABFAS.
 
Retrograde_Nail said:
Everyone stop. Just pay for board wizards and do it over and over and over again until you understand how they want you to take the test. Don't fight the process. Just learn how to take the test. You will win. I paid for board wizards. Took a week off from work on PTO. Studied board wizards and did every question and case multiple times. Passed all tests and case review the first time.

I did wait 3 years into practice before taking all of the exams to get plenty of diverse cases underneath my belt and experience which I do think helped me pass as well.

But learning to take their test is paramount. Pay for board wizards and just do it all. You will be fine.
Click to expand...
This is what is difficult. There are so many different people telling you so many different things. I've spoken with the creator of the CBPS MANY times in the past several years and He doesn't recommend Board Wizards and all those things and doesn't recommend the shotgun approach. It wasn't made to be that or to "prep a patient for surgery."

With that being said, of course, I did Board Wizards and I thought it was very helpful, but I still didn't pass. Missed it by 10 points. And for those that did pass, who knows if you passed right at the bare minimum or by 300 points.
 
shadesofgrey said:
I mean I understand what your saying, but is this really how the process should work? Where the hard part is not the academics but the process? Currently, the test takers have to purchase the expensive test and then the suggestion is to spend another $500(?) for the prep. Why can't ABFAS actually create something comparable to board wizards? Or here is an idea, use some of that big ass cash reserve and buy the rights to board wizards material or make a deal with board wizards to provide it for every test taker at a discounted rate but included in the test? Is the cost of test prep prohibitive or that great? No, but it is frustrating when the process feels unnecessarily complex. I would compare it to the US tax system. The correct answer when it comes to taxes is have your accountant do it. However, the fact that an entire industry has built up to help people complete their taxes indicates how terrible the system is.

In truth, at this point I am just venting as I passed my cbps certifying (oh joy). However, it's fun to complain and in general I still dislike ABFAS.
Click to expand...
I agree and I brought this up earlier. Why isn't there a true outline or prep or book that actually makes it beneficial to study and to help you pass the exams? ABPM makes a book available to study as exam prep and I feel that they are much more receptive.

Would love to find out from other fields about their board certification exam preps.
 
Being gouged for money on prep material is a time-honored rite of passage in higher education.

Did you go into the MCAT cold? no you took a Kaplan course or bought some study materials
Did you go into the APMLE part 1 with just your notes? no you bought study guides
Ditto for APMLE part 2
and what about part 3? lol ok maybe not

I mean, if it's not expensive, was it really even worth it? 😆
 
Beetlejuice7 said:
This is what is difficult. There are so many different people telling you so many different things. I've spoken with the creator of the CBPS MANY times in the past several years and He doesn't recommend Board Wizards and all those things and doesn't recommend the shotgun approach. It wasn't made to be that or to "prep a patient for surgery."

With that being said, of course, I did Board Wizards and I thought it was very helpful, but I still didn't pass. Missed it by 10 points. And for those that did pass, who knows if you passed right at the bare minimum or by 300 points.
Click to expand...

They are wrong. I was told the same thing. Even by the president of ABFAS at the time who was my attending way back when. Do not listen to them. Learn to take the test like board wizards shows you.

If you didn’t pass then maybe ABFAS finally got wise and changed how it’s scored.
 
You know if you were a real doctor and got paid more than a nurse you wouldn't complain about the 1 or 2 times fees....would be a drop in the bucket...
 
Adam Smasher said:
Being gouged for money on prep material is a time-honored rite of passage in higher education.

Did you go into the MCAT cold? no you took a Kaplan course or bought some study materials
Did you go into the APMLE part 1 with just your notes? no you bought study guides
Ditto for APMLE part 2
and what about part 3? lol ok maybe not

I mean, if it's not expensive, was it really even worth it? 😆
Click to expand...
You paid for these things? Missing the hookup

Also other higher Ed learning is very objective. There is a right and wrong. Medicine is so subjective based on many clinical factors. There's a reason why usmle and other specialty boards have paragraph long questions. Meanwhile abfas can't decide what a normal foot looks like.
 
I’m foot qualified now but can’t pass RRA cases. Will this hinder my job opportunities?
 
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JustAPedicurist said:
Fair point. I should’ve written it different. Will this hinder my surgical privileges when getting credentialed?
Click to expand...
Your future surgery centers and hospitals will provide you a list specifying procedures that you can be credentialed for and what they will require ie. residency, training, qualification/certification.

For example from a hospital near me:

Core Priviledges:
-Joint Aspiration
-Biopsies (Soft Tissue)
-Digital surgery of all types
-Digital tendon surgery
-Forefoot Surgery - including hallux valgus repair, metatarsophalangeal joint surgery, osteotomy of metatarsal, resection metatarsal and easily accessible tarsal exostosis

Successful completion of CPME approved one year surgical residency
and
Certification or active participation in the examination process leading to ABFAS or ABPM
or
Documentation or attestation of the management of podiatric problems and or surgical procedures for at least 50 inpatient or outpatients as the attending physician or senior resident in an accredited facility during the past 2 years.

The example above would likely be considered pretty generous in a gatekeeping world.

Its going to be variable dependent on your facility. If you request privileges somewhere and its says "Certification or Qualification in ABFAS RRA" for "ankle surgery" then obviously you are going to have some limits to your scope until you complete the certification and its obviously going to raise all sorts of interesting concerns like - if you don't do something for a year - should you be doing it etc. You would be well advised to look back through Dr. Rodgers posts if you run into scope issues as he's provided detailed discussions in the past about the legal implications of hospitals using certification for privileging.
 
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Found out today I passed ABFAS foot and RRA certification on my first try. The process was quite stressful trying to submit 22 cases. Initially I was going to wait until next year to do RRA but decided I wanted to get it over with and Im glad i did. I thought 6 weeks was plenty of time to get everything in but i struggled until last minute. So please start as soon as you can and do not procrastinate.

I had a few cases that got replaced either because I didnt see the patients from beginning to end or because patients required multiple surgeries like debridements/I&Ds throughout their hospitalization and the procedure they picked of mine was not the initial surgery that the patient had. For those cases, I spoke to Dr. Venson and asked him to replace it since I didnt think there was enough information to show my thought process, management, end results etc.

Dr. Venson was very responsive to my emails, texts and calls. I spoke to him more than I like to admit but I figured if I wanted to pass this I should make sure he clarified everything for me so I wouldnt have any regrets later. Dont be afraid to reach out to him, your colleagues or email ABFAS for help and clarifications. Its important to keep going back to the ABFAS guidebook and making sure you have everything checked off and uploaded to the correct folders.

Make sure you double and triple check everything!!!! Make sure all the dates match up, xray views match up and all your notes in chronological order like you’re reading a book and that it makes sense.

There were a few cases that I thought were going to fail me but I think my charting really helped. I learned how to chart properly early on with the help of my colleagues who are already ABFAS certified. I have templates for everything so I dont miss ordering labs, WB xrays, abx, pain meds etc etc. Yes all of my notes are very long and detailed but I really try to explain the complications and how to treat it, explain why the patient still has pain, consult appropriately like PT and pain management. Better to write more than not?

To be honest, foot cases were more stressful than RRA. Most of my cases for RRA were ankle fractures (no open fx or pilon fx) and I think those cases were more straight forward than infection cases or elective cases like bunions, plantar plate, forefoot recons. My preop and post op xrays for ankle fractures looked much better than my foot cases. I really thought I was going to fail the foot part.

Well I guess I can drop my ABPM next year. Paying for both was way too much. Like other posters mentioned, I am glad I took ABPM after residency and becoming a certified podiatrist early on which may or may not have helped me in my career.
 
tacoboutit said:
Found out today I passed ABFAS foot and RRA certification on my first try. The process was quite stressful trying to submit 22 cases. Initially I was going to wait until next year to do RRA but decided I wanted to get it over with and Im glad i did. I thought 6 weeks was plenty of time to get everything in but i struggled until last minute. So please start as soon as you can and do not procrastinate.

I had a few cases that got replaced either because I didnt see the patients from beginning to end or because patients required multiple surgeries like debridements/I&Ds throughout their hospitalization and the procedure they picked of mine was not the initial surgery that the patient had. For those cases, I spoke to Dr. Venson and asked him to replace it since I didnt think there was enough information to show my thought process, management, end results etc.

Dr. Venson was very responsive to my emails, texts and calls. I spoke to him more than I like to admit but I figured if I wanted to pass this I should make sure he clarified everything for me so I wouldnt have any regrets later. Dont be afraid to reach out to him, your colleagues or email ABFAS for help and clarifications. Its important to keep going back to the ABFAS guidebook and making sure you have everything checked off and uploaded to the correct folders.

Make sure you double and triple check everything!!!! Make sure all the dates match up, xray views match up and all your notes in chronological order like you’re reading a book and that it makes sense.

There were a few cases that I thought were going to fail me but I think my charting really helped. I learned how to chart properly early on with the help of my colleagues who are already ABFAS certified. I have templates for everything so I dont miss ordering labs, WB xrays, abx, pain meds etc etc. Yes all of my notes are very long and detailed but I really try to explain the complications and how to treat it, explain why the patient still has pain, consult appropriately like PT and pain management. Better to write more than not?

To be honest, foot cases were more stressful than RRA. Most of my cases for RRA were ankle fractures (no open fx or pilon fx) and I think those cases were more straight forward than infection cases or elective cases like bunions, plantar plate, forefoot recons. My preop and post op xrays for ankle fractures looked much better than my foot cases. I really thought I was going to fail the foot part.

Well I guess I can drop my ABPM next year. Paying for both was way too much. Like other posters mentioned, I am glad I took ABPM after residency and becoming a certified podiatrist early on which may or may not have helped me in my career.
Click to expand...

Congratulations! And there should just be one board in Podiatric medicine and surgery. No one should have to be “double-boarded”. End of story.
 
diabeticfootdr said:
Congratulations! And there should just be one board in Podiatric medicine and surgery. No one should have to be “double-boarded”. End of story.
Click to expand...
How many of us can afford a 2500$ board right out of residency? I passed ABFAS Foot/RRA during residency, I like free, my program pays for all boards in residency. Don’t need ABPM until I either fail certs or my qualification expire. If ABPM would allow final year exam to count, I would be happy. Until then ABFAS. I’m just your broke pod resident.
 
The fees associated with our boards and organizations bother me. I've never had a job that assists me in paying for them and so once the first year or 2 of cheaper payments went away I've dropped most. Paying $900 for APMA, $660 for ACFAS, $200 ABFAS qualified status, $700-1000/month for PICA, $900/state for DEA, state licensing fee(s), and whatever amount towards earning enough CMEs and taking the appropriate boards tests... you end up paying 15-20k annually to maintain good standing with all these. You gotta spend money to make money, but add in a $3000/month payment for student loans and about half of your $150k salary is spent before you've even started looking at your living expenses.

So yeah, this is my "old man yells at clouds" rant and adds to why I won't be even considering ABPM when ABFAS is the preferred board anyways.
 
Forcewielder said:
The fees associated with our boards and organizations bother me. I've never had a job that assists me in paying for them and so once the first year or 2 of cheaper payments went away I've dropped most. Paying $900 for APMA, $660 for ACFAS, $200 ABFAS qualified status, $700-1000/month for PICA, $900/state for DEA, state licensing fee(s), and whatever amount towards earning enough CMEs and taking the appropriate boards tests... you end up paying 15-20k annually to maintain good standing with all these. You gotta spend money to make money, but add in a $3000/month payment for student loans and about half of your $150k salary is spent before you've even started looking at your living expenses.

So yeah, this is my "old man yells at clouds" rant and adds to why I won't be even considering ABPM when ABFAS is the preferred board anyways.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct.

One of the biggest backbreakers in podiatry is not simply that the ROI and average income are low, but incomes are often VERY low in the early going (associate job).

Only a very few of us will have enough CME to pay for everything. Most DPMs have no CME allowance (owners or 1099), or they have a smallish one (private practice associate or rural hospital). Some govt/univ/etc hospitals sometimes give a larger CME figure, but it's still just taken out of your pay at the end of the day. Even when I worked IHS, I had a low-end DPM hospital salary with big CME budget but still had to pick between conferences vs dual boards vs texts vs minor podiatry orgs vs workshops, etc within the allowance given (I think it was they paid all licenses, all boards, dea, malprac... and cme was still and additional $3k or something).

These days, with LLC / S corp, professional expenses are pre-tax $ (but sill not free). I only pay for:
  • malpractice (obviously required, and a few options are cheaper than PICA and do the same thing)
  • licenses and hospital dues and DEA etc which are absolutely needed
  • ABFAS (board cert... get the one that actually matters for jobs or privileging),
  • ACFAS (good CME, best journal, and the On-Demand CME credits pay for the membership)
  • travel CME some years (usually tie it in with visiting fam or something, obviously)

I once paid for APMA and PICA and ABPM other things that were just a waste in hindsight (esp when they were my post-tax money). APMA gets you basically nothing except more pod schools and drives down our income; it was required at one time for ACFAS - but that was awhile ago now. It is probably the most overpriced DPM expense unless you like TFP meetings and a crap journal full of PICA ads and antifungal ads. PICA is fine enough but overpriced relative to peer companies. ABPM can seem nice to be 'board cert' right away and might make one or two insurance apps faster for that reason, but like @podourology said, it really does nothing that ABFAS BQ doesn't already do. The ABPM embarrassment and walkout of elected docs in 2022-23 over surgery CAQ was also a joke I won't support. The other pod organizations (sports, peds, women, wound, whatever) or dual board cert or meaningless CAQs or expensive conferences are basically luxury purchases only unless your CME is just huge.

In hindsight, all of that money would have been much better put on my student loans or investment/retirement/savings or saving up for solo PP - particularly when I was 0-5yrs out and making very little. I only wish I would have dropped the other expenses sooner. There is never enough to buy it all.

I think a lot of young DPMs think they will find a big pay job right out of training or very soon after (most never will). I was no different. It is much like WCI says that a doc's financial journey is an airline flight... even a little bit of errant direction early leads to WAY off course later on. The early career bad budgeting, overspending (consumer, insurances, dues, whatever), failing to eliminate interest-bearing debts, failing to invest, or failing to get one's income up are very impactful. The MD/DO have much more room for error with a roughly 1:1 ROI for most, but you simply can't afford more mistakes in podiatry, where most grads usually already have a 3:1 or 2:1 debt-to-income ROI.
 
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