Been building my roadmap

[dylank811]

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Hello SDN,

After lurking on here for quite some time, I thought I would share my plan thus far to get some more feedback & opinions. I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet.

Background:
Virginia resident. 22 years old, turning 23 in August. Earned BS in Business Management/Entrepreneurship from VCU in 2015. I've found some success thus far in my career in business, but fulfillment has remained lackluster since graduation a year ago.

Why MD/DO?
Interested in the human body, why diseases start, and how to best treat the body to prolong life. I believe investing time and resources into the health of our bodies is the best investment we can make because increasing the amount of quality, able-bodied time we spend here supersedes anything else. The complexity of medicine is fascinating. I feel like damn near every career path in business is routed in superficial consumerism instead of impacting lives in a more meaningful way. Down the road, it would be exciting to leverage my entrepreneurial knowledge and interests to impact medicine in some way. It is strictly my opinion that we have an overly medicated population, so there may be an opportunity for me in decreasing prescriptions written through medical knowledge and entrepreneurial effort.

Roadmap:
Fall 2016 - JSR (Community College)
- General Chemistry I
- Intro to Biological Sciences I
- General Physics I (maybe VCU)

Winter 2017 – self taught
- General Sociology
- Intro to Psychology (took this freshman year, got a B, would be good to refresh)

Spring 2017 – JSR (Community College)
- General Chemistry II
- Intro to Biological Sciences II
- General Physics II (maybe VCU)

Summer 2017 – VCU
- Organic Chemistry I
- Organic Chemistry II
- MCAT in July-August

Fall 2018
- Med School - planning to focus on all VA schools, but will probably need out of state options as well

Throughout – 200+ hours
- Medical scribe for MD and DO
- Shadowing
- EMT-B
- Volunteer work for anything
- Research administrator

Questions:
Seems like June is the latest you really want to be taking your MCAT if you have a choice. Perhaps I should plan to take it before completing Organic Chemistry and just self-teach what I need to know to test well? Is it possible to even take it in time after finishing the second part of this class in mid-July?

What's up with the gap year?

I've heard varying opinions on scrutiny towards taking courses in community college instead of 4-year college. Does it matter? I'm not a fan of pissing away money for an irrational fear.

A VCU pre-med adviser said that going to DO school would not affect my specialty options, yet I just finished reading another thread on this forum where people were stating that certain specialties such as neurosurgery are much more difficult to get into without going the MD route. What is the reasoning behind this? At the end of the day, I just want to be a physician, so if DO school is my path to get there, then I'm fine with having some limits on residency options.

Further comments:
Quantitative Goals: 3.13 cGPA & 4.0 sGPA (let's not talk about my first degree), 510 MCAT

I'm pretty sure my timeline is very rushed, however I am trying to cut out wasted time. I want to spend my time and effort only on what moves me further towards my goal, so I have condensed and trimmed out fluff that didn't seem necessary.

I would like to work part-time as an EMT through the first year of classes for the exposure to medical emergencies and to help support myself (will also have a $20K cushion saved up by the end of this summer).

I am not looking for opinions about whether or not I am competitive as much as I am looking for suggestions on how I can best tackle my next steps to maximize time, effort, and chances, but any thoughts are welcome.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
-Dylan

 

[RN MD 2017]

Any way you can squeeze in gen chem this summer and start organic in the fall? That's what I did, and it was a huge help. Not sure about VCU but Organic can be tough to find as a summer class, not to mention an extremely difficult subject to learn that quickly. I understand you want to finish ASAP but you should really consider taking another year to complete organic, more upper level bio, and definitely biochemistry. You absolutely have to take biochem. Your GPA would also benefit from this extra year, although it would still be low for MD programs. Just went through what you are looking at so I get what it's like. Good luck!

 

[GreenDuck12]

Welcome to the forums.

In general, I think this timeline / goals are a bit optimistic/unrealistic.

In general, if you are applying to MD schools, you want to get your application in earlier rather than later (i.e. in June) and especially if you have below average stats. If you take the MCAT in June/July/August, you will not get your scores back till one month later, delaying your application which must be verified. I would recommend you take organic chemistry, then take the MCAT, not the other way around. Additionally, you are going to need biochemistry for the redesign of the MCAT.

The 3.13 cGPA goal is a problem for MD and DO programs. A 3.13 is way, way outside the low range for accepted applicants (especially if there is not a top percentile MCAT score). For DO programs a 3.13 is also too low. So, despite what you wrote before, you need to talk about that first degree. I recommend you pursue grade replacement for DO programs and retake any F/D/C classes on your transcript to raise that cGPA.

Long story short: don't rush the process and build in some additional time to your plan.

 

[Gibbward]

I agree with what everyone's said so far. I think an extra year would really help especially if you're gonna try to shoot for MD schools. The late MCAT might not matter as much for DO though because I think their cycle lasts a bit longer. As for the CC classes, your best bet is to contact the schools you're interested in applying to and ask them directly.

 

[dylank811]

Any way you can squeeze in gen chem this summer and start organic in the fall? That's what I did, and it was a huge help. Not sure about VCU but Organic can be tough to find as a summer class, not to mention an extremely difficult subject to learn that quickly. I understand you want to finish ASAP but you should really consider taking another year to complete organic, more upper level bio, and definitely biochemistry. You absolutely have to take biochem. Your GPA would also benefit from this extra year, although it would still be low for MD programs. Just went through what you are looking at so I get what it's like. Good luck!

I think I am past the late registration deadline for this summer, although I may be able to at least take part one for the second half of summer classes. I'll take a look just to be sure. Both VCU and JSR (community college) offer Organic Chemistry I & II as back-to-back summer courses. Thanks for the tip about Biochemistry. I had not realized that was part of the new MCAT, even though I had read about those soft science topics being incorporated. I did originally have quite a bit of upper level bio courses on my plan, but removed them because I didn't think it would ultimately help me enough to be competitive. It will, however, allow me to bring my cGPA up to about a 3.27 if I remember correctly. Maybe the extra year could help more than I am thinking it will.

Welcome to the forums.

In general, I think this timeline / goals are a bit optimistic/unrealistic.

In general, if you are applying to MD schools, you want to get your application in earlier rather than later (i.e. in June) and especially if you have below average stats. If you take the MCAT in June/July/August, you will not get your scores back till one month later, delaying your application which must be verified. I would recommend you take organic chemistry, then take the MCAT, not the other way around. Additionally, you are going to need biochemistry for the redesign of the MCAT.

The 3.13 cGPA goal is a problem for MD and DO programs. A 3.13 is way, way outside the low range for accepted applicants (especially if there is not a top percentile MCAT score). For DO programs a 3.13 is also too low. So, despite what you wrote before, you need to talk about that first degree. I recommend you pursue grade replacement for DO programs and retake any F/D/C classes on your transcript to raise that cGPA.

Long story short: don't rush the process and build in some additional time to your plan.

If I add back in one year as a I had it before this recent iteration, I would have more time to take more upper level bio classes to help raise my cGPA, however it won't go up much since I'm battling 4 years of poor undergraduate performance. I never received a grade lower than a C, and I also took no science relevant classes except for Psychology freshman year, which I earned a B in. It doesn't seem like grade replacement would be feasible unless I have misunderstood how that works.

I suppose I am going to have to proceed on faith that I can get accepted somewhere with my crappy cGPA if I apply to enough schools. I am hoping that I can make up for it by being a strong candidate in every other area. Maybe I'd have a better chance at schools that have moved towards competency based admissions? I did set my MCAT goal at a 510 just based on what I read was competitive. Would a higher MCAT help draw attention away from my GPA?

I agree with what everyone's said so far. I think an extra year would really help especially if you're gonna try to shoot for MD schools. The late MCAT might not matter as much for DO though because I think their cycle lasts a bit longer. As for the CC classes, your best bet is to contact the schools you're interested in applying to and ask them directly.

I figured I had better chances getting into in-state med schools, so I'll call the 6 in Virginia to see what they say.


Everyone's advice so far is appreciated!

 

[Gibbward]

A much stronger MCAT than average and a near perfect science GPA will definitely help your cause. I've also heard there are some schools that will only take into account your most recent (60?) credit hours. That might be a good thing to find for you as well.

 

[GreenDuck12]

So, grade replacement is out if your lowest grades are in the B range. Nuts. In this case, I think you absolutely should add some upper division biology courses to help demonstrate your ability to "handle the rigors of medical school." Assuming a strong performance, it will also help you raise your cGPA as you mentioned above. Look into genetics, cell bio / molecular bio, etc as those will be relevant.

A high MCAT will draw a contrast with a lower GPA. The challenge is how much? A former student of mine scored a perfect score on the MCAT, applied to a lot of schools, and ultimately was only accepted to his/her state school (cGPA was a 3.2). I would shoot for the highest score possible and only take the test when you are prepared to do as well as possible.

You are correct that you stand a better chance at state MD programs as opposed to OOS but your stats will need to be much closer to a 3.4/3.5. Unfortunately, medical school admissions are an absolute crap shoot in that 60% of applicants do not matriculate in any given year. You have to spend the time putting together the best application that you can.

I highly suggest reading the forums where students describe how they recovered from a low cGPA / sGPA. Others have done it before and you can as well if you put in the necessary work.

 

[RN MD 2017]

I think I am past the late registration deadline for this summer, although I may be able to at least take part one for the second half of summer classes. I'll take a look just to be sure. Both VCU and JSR (community college) offer Organic Chemistry I & II as back-to-back summer courses. Thanks for the tip about Biochemistry. I had not realized that was part of the new MCAT, even though I had read about those soft science topics being incorporated. I did originally have quite a bit of upper level bio courses on my plan, but removed them because I didn't think it would ultimately help me enough to be competitive. It will, however, allow me to bring my cGPA up to about a 3.27 if I remember correctly. Maybe the extra year could help more than I am thinking it will.



If I add back in one year as a I had it before this recent iteration, I would have more time to take more upper level bio classes to help raise my cGPA, however it won't go up much since I'm battling 4 years of poor undergraduate performance. I never received a grade lower than a C, and I also took no science relevant classes except for Psychology freshman year, which I earned a B in. It doesn't seem like grade replacement would be feasible unless I have misunderstood how that works.

I suppose I am going to have to proceed on faith that I can get accepted somewhere with my crappy cGPA if I apply to enough schools. I am hoping that I can make up for it by being a strong candidate in every other area. Maybe I'd have a better chance at schools that have moved towards competency based admissions? I did set my MCAT goal at a 510 just based on what I read was competitive. Would a higher MCAT help draw attention away from my GPA?



I figured I had better chances getting into in-state med schools, so I'll call the 6 in Virginia to see what they say.


Everyone's advice so far is appreciated!

In reality, those upper level bio courses will help a TON with the MCAT. I say this as someone who took genetics/molecular bio and cell bio this past year. While the AAMC says that you only need general bio, they tend to test over harder concepts that aren't always found in the low-level classes. Before you start thinking about the MCAT, though, you do need to fix your GPA. I agree with @GreenDuck12, that GPA is problematic even with a good MCAT. Ace your post-bac!

 

[backside_attack]

Have you looked at other schools in Richmond or schools in the area? Just because you're a VCU alum doesn't mean you can't look into UofR, Randolph College, even William & Mary or UVA depending on how you can work your schedule. I would stay away from the community college courses.

 

[Sardinia]

@dylank811 You're punishing yourself for no reason. You have a business degree, you should utilize that to it's maximum effectiveness by looking for employment within the medical sector rather than retraining yourself from scratch for an EMT-B. Your $20k savings is meager if you're insinuating that you have no support structure and you're doing yourself a disservice by attempting to work part time with that school schedule because all your classes will be incredibly scrutinized for grade performance due to your small scope of courses.

My sincere advice which runs counter to your current road map is to use your business degree to get involved in a start-up whether it be a biotech or medical company. Throw yourself into that company and draw as much as you can from the experience while taking one or two courses from university/community college. If you really want to fast track this process and go for a full reinvention of who you are as a person then go ahead. But I think there are less radical ways to approach this process without forsaking everything you built up so far in this process.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

O-chem 2 is increasingly optional, biochemistry increasingly mandatory.

Biochem is also extremely relevant for the MCAT - most passages are more similar to biochem content than biology content - so I would certainly take biochem before I took the MCAT.

Your $20k savings is meager if you're insinuating that you have no support structure and you're doing yourself a disservice by attempting to work part time with that school schedule because all your classes will be incredibly scrutinized for grade performance due to your small scope of courses.

Nah - he can work part time and take 2-3 classes per semester. In fact I think it would probably help because forced to time manage.

 

[Sardinia]

@Miami_Postbac He can also eat the grass from his neighbor's lawn, walk to campus, hydrate with tap water, and replace his deflated tires with optimism. Tuition from campus is free and he's not paying for rent either right? See how fast your emergency funds burn when you go from full time to part time. He'll be literally racing to see which suffers burn-out faster by the end of his courses. His wallet or himself.

 

[dylank811]

Much to reply to in my short lunch break today!

A much stronger MCAT than average and a near perfect science GPA will definitely help your cause. I've also heard there are some schools that will only take into account your most recent (60?) credit hours. That might be a good thing to find for you as well.

That would help tremendously if I loaded up my course schedule with the upper level bios because I'd have almost another 60 credits right there. Do you know of any schools in particular? Of course I'll look around myself too.

So, grade replacement is out if your lowest grades are in the B range. Nuts. In this case, I think you absolutely should add some upper division biology courses to help demonstrate your ability to "handle the rigors of medical school." Assuming a strong performance, it will also help you raise your cGPA as you mentioned above. Look into genetics, cell bio / molecular bio, etc as those will be relevant.

A high MCAT will draw a contrast with a lower GPA. The challenge is how much? A former student of mine scored a perfect score on the MCAT, applied to a lot of schools, and ultimately was only accepted to his/her state school (cGPA was a 3.2). I would shoot for the highest score possible and only take the test when you are prepared to do as well as possible.

You are correct that you stand a better chance at state MD programs as opposed to OOS but your stats will need to be much closer to a 3.4/3.5. Unfortunately, medical school admissions are an absolute crap shoot in that 60% of applicants do not matriculate in any given year. You have to spend the time putting together the best application that you can.

I highly suggest reading the forums where students describe how they recovered from a low cGPA / sGPA. Others have done it before and you can as well if you put in the necessary work.

I actually had all of those upper level courses on here originally, so it'll take three seconds to add them all back. I had one optional class on there that involved cancer, which was interesting since my grandpa suffered from kidney cancer that ended up spreading to his neck even though the doctor said it shouldn't do that. At least that's what Dad told me.

In reality, those upper level bio courses will help a TON with the MCAT. I say this as someone who took genetics/molecular bio and cell bio this past year. While the AAMC says that you only need general bio, they tend to test over harder concepts that aren't always found in the low-level classes. Before you start thinking about the MCAT, though, you do need to fix your GPA. I agree with @GreenDuck12, that GPA is problematic even with a good MCAT. Ace your post-bac!

GPA improvement mission accepted! So far, I have elected to not go into a formal post-bac program, as it didn't seem like it was the best fit for me. Did you just mean my post-degree classes in general? There are some post-bac programs that guarantee a spot or an interview for that school's med program, which would be awesome if there were one I was competitive for.

Have you looked at other schools in Richmond or schools in the area? Just because you're a VCU alum doesn't mean you can't look into UofR, Randolph College, even William & Mary or UVA depending on how you can work your schedule. I would stay away from the community college courses.

Not really, I just assumed I'd take all of them at VCU since I know I'll have no trouble getting in and I'm familiar with the school. I suppose those other schools might have a different course arrangement that could help improve the timing of my plan.

@dylank811 You're punishing yourself for no reason. You have a business degree, you should utilize that to it's maximum effectiveness by looking for employment within the medical sector rather than retraining yourself from scratch for an EMT-B. Your $20k savings is meager if you're insinuating that you have no support structure and you're doing yourself a disservice by attempting to work part time with that school schedule because all your classes will be incredibly scrutinized for grade performance due to your small scope of courses.

My sincere advice which runs counter to your current road map is to use your business degree to get involved in a start-up whether it be a biotech or medical company. Throw yourself into that company and draw as much as you can from the experience while taking one or two courses from university/community college. If you really want to fast track this process and go for a full reinvention of who you are as a person then go ahead. But I think there are less radical ways to approach this process without forsaking everything you built up so far in this process.

In the first paragraph, are you suggesting that I find a medically-related part time job to bolster my application and to provide income for myself? That could be a good option too. According to a paramedic I know, EMT-B pays $17 per hour starting, which is pretty decent in Richmond for a part-time commitment. I didn't really choose that route purely for the hourly pay, but it certainly helps to reduce the number of work hours needed to get by. My monthly burn rate can be pretty low while in school. I don't have a ton of financial commitments, minus a sports car that I don't mind selling if need be. I could probably even shack up at home with my parents to spare rent. Whatever it takes.

Anything that exposes me to the medical field and provides some financial sustenance is worth considering I think.

O-chem 2 is increasingly optional, biochemistry increasingly mandatory.

Biochem is also extremely relevant for the MCAT - most passages are more similar to biochem content than biology content - so I would certainly take biochem before I took the MCAT.



Nah - he can work part time and take 2-3 classes per semester. In fact I think it would probably help because forced to time manage.

Okay, interesting. I believe it is still a requirement for VA schools, with the exception of UVA. They've transitioned to competency-based admissions. Biochemistry will be back on the consideration list for coursework.

Time-management has become a strong suit for me. I was pretty good at managing my time even in undergrad, but I didn't devote enough of it to school. Instead, I worked two jobs, held officer positions in my fraternity, etc. Really feel like a horse's ass now that my GPA matters though!

@Miami_Postbac He can also eat the grass from his neighbor's lawn, walk to campus, hydrate with tap water, and replace his deflated tires with optimism. Tuition from campus is free and he's not paying for rent either right? See how fast your emergency funds burn when you go from full time to part time. He'll be literally racing to see which suffers burn-out faster by the end of his courses. His wallet or himself.

Alright, maybe I should address finances a bit more:

Tuition I would either cover cash or through student loans, depending on amount. For VCU tuition, I would enroll as a degree-seeking bio major so I can pull some more inexpensive stafford loans instead of depleting my cash.

I am good with money management. I know I can live on this in my area:

$500-600 for rent & utilities
$150 for groceries
$40-50 for car and renter's insurance
$30-40 for gas (could walk/bike to campus)
$840 burn rate, another $2-300/month would be good for entertainment and unexpected expenses

I could sustain that on 15-20 hours per week as an EMT-B. Not a fancy living, but I like it that way. Teaches the value of the dollar.

If that's too much work, I'll go to my parents' or grandma's house, so less than 10 hours per week of work.


Tons of feedback, and it is all appreciated! I have tapped out my local network of resources and I didn't feel like I had enough opinions to make a good judgement call. The more perspective I get, the more comfortable I will feel with my final plan!

 

[Gibbward]

@dylank811 I tried to do a quick browse on what schools they are but I couldn't find em 🙁 I remember there being a discussion on SDN about that though so with some luck you might find it here on the site.

 

[dylank811]

@dylank811 I tried to do a quick browse on what schools they are but I couldn't find em 🙁 I remember there being a discussion on SDN about that though so with some luck you might find it here on the site.

No problem, the search feature works fine! Thanks for your help.