Beginning from Scratch

[1727]

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Hello, everyone:

I know you are all busy people, and I know what I'm about to post is very trite and redundant, however, I need some direction.

My background is quite scattered: I went to a community college and did miserably. I didn't want to be there; I failed courses, and withdrew from many, too, including the few science classes I did take. After writhing in academic probation for three years at the community college, I met my wife and we were pregnant very quickly and unexpectedly. I was 21, had completed a year's worth of courses, and had a baby on the way with a woman I hardly knew. I did what I had to do, I got my grades up enough to transfer to Seton Hill University. My first semester there was rough. I moved out, was working 30-40 hours a week as a bartender, and going to school. After my child was born, I took about a year off to get organized. I went back to Seton Hill, and after seven years and a child, I graduated with a 3.25 with a B.A. in history. Now, I have contemplated medicine since I was 5 when I would go to the hospital with my father, but I didn't take myself seriously, or school for that matter. After graduating in an awful economy, I decided to just take a year or so and think things through. I worked odd jobs and we got by; now, I started a job in sales, but it isn't what I want, however, we have two children and money is a concern; my parents are not wealthy, and I don't have piles of money laying around, so I don't know what to do, or how serious a candidate I am. I have shadowed a couple of times in the last year, and I want to go to medical school. I am 27 now. From what I have been told, working full-time while taking classes and shadowing, etc... is nearly impossible. Plus, none of the local schools offer courses at night only. So, due to money, I would like to begin at a CC. Is this ok? Should I plan on taking a few upper-level courses at a university? And, aside from shadowing, what other EC's should I be considering; I do have children, and work, so time is limited. Also, do I realistically have a shot in the future, or is my seven years to get a B.A. and a 3.25 too overwhelmingly abhorrent? If I do have a chance, should I only look at D.O. schools? I do not have anything against osteopathic schools; actually, I am close to LECOM-Seton Hill and I love the idea of PBL's flexibility. I apologize for the novel, the platitudes, and I am grateful to anyone who takes the time to read this and help me.

 

[theseeker4]

Hello, everyone:

I know you are all busy people, and I know what I'm about to post is very trite and redundant, however, I need some direction.

My background is quite scattered: I went to a community college and did miserably. I didn't want to be there; I failed courses, and withdrew from many, too, including the few science classes I did take. After writhing in academic probation for three years at the community college, I met my wife and we were pregnant very quickly and unexpectedly. I was 21, had completed a year's worth of courses, and had a baby on the way with a woman I hardly knew. I did what I had to do, I got my grades up enough to transfer to Seton Hill University. My first semester there was rough. I moved out, was working 30-40 hours a week as a bartender, and going to school. After my child was born, I took about a year off to get organized. I went back to Seton Hill, and after seven years and a child, I graduated with a 3.25 with a B.A. in history. Now, I have contemplated medicine since I was 5 when I would go to the hospital with my father, but I didn't take myself seriously, or school for that matter. After graduating in an awful economy, I decided to just take a year or so and think things through. I worked odd jobs and we got by; now, I started a job in sales, but it isn't what I want, however, we have two children and money is a concern; my parents are not wealthy, and I don't have piles of money laying around, so I don't know what to do, or how serious a candidate I am. I have shadowed a couple of times in the last year, and I want to go to medical school. I am 27 now. From what I have been told, working full-time while taking classes and shadowing, etc... is nearly impossible. Plus, none of the local schools offer courses at night only. So, due to money, I would like to begin at a CC. Is this ok? Should I plan on taking a few upper-level courses at a university? And, aside from shadowing, what other EC's should I be considering; I do have children, and work, so time is limited. Also, do I realistically have a shot in the future, or is my seven years to get a B.A. and a 3.25 too overwhelmingly abhorrent? If I do have a chance, should I only look at D.O. schools? I do not have anything against osteopathic schools; actually, I am close to LECOM-Seton Hill and I love the idea of PBL's flexibility. I apologize for the novel, the platitudes, and I am grateful to anyone who takes the time to read this and help me.

Is the 3.25 the GPA of record from your BA program, or is that your total GPA including every course you ever took at the college level, including those you later retook? If the former, find out the latter since that is what AMCAS will calculate for MD schools. Where you stand when you figure out your AMCAS GPA will say a lot about your options and where you can go from here.

 

[1727]

That's total. I requested my transcripts, which I just requested, state 3.25 with 43 credits transferred in from community college. However, there were some courses from the CC that were never transferred into Seton Hill. And they were not good grades (c or below). There are not many retakes on my transcripts. When I begin this fall, I will be starting all over (think BIO 1, Chem 1, and college algebra). I have taken bio 1 and college alg years ago and received c's in both.

 

[theseeker4]

That's total. I requested my transcripts, which I just requested, state 3.25 with 43 credits transferred in from community college. However, there were some courses from the CC that were never transferred into Seton Hill. And they were not good grades (c or below). There are not many retakes on my transcripts. When I begin this fall, I will be starting all over (think BIO 1, Chem 1, and college algebra). I have taken bio 1 and college alg years ago and received c's in both.

Sounds like DO will be your best and quickest bet. They replace grades, so you can boost your GPA much more quickly there. How any courses do you need to take, and what grades will they replace, assuming you do better this time around? Just the two C's? A solid GPA in the mid 3's along with a good MCAT performance will open most DO schools as options for you.

 

[1727]

Sounds like DO will be your best and quickest bet. They replace grades, so you can boost your GPA much more quickly there. How any courses do you need to take, and what grades will they replace, assuming you do better this time around? Just the two C's? A solid GPA in the mid 3's along with a good MCAT performance will open most DO schools as options for you.

Yes, DO's seem to be much more accepting of nontraditionals. I am taking all my courses. My degree is in history, so I only took bio 1. I am retaking it. I live very close to LECOM-Seton Hill, so that is a great option. Pitt is down the street, too. But they are out of reach, I'm sure. I am beginning this fall; is it ok to take my courses at a CC? I am starting there at least, then I would consider transferring for my upper-levels. However, as I already mentioned, I have children and money is a consideration. I can't spend 30k more on my pre-med courses, when at the local CC I could take them all for a few thousand. Thank you for your help.

 

[Goro]

Take classes part time; squeeze in shadowing in summers or whenever you can. Don't forget you'll need to do ECs to show your altruism and that you know what you're getting into.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. if you're prepared to invest a few years getting ready, you'll be a doctor.


I am 27 now. From what I have been told, working full-time while taking classes and shadowing, etc... is nearly impossible.

Perfectly OK. It's a urban legend amongst pre-meds that CCs are bad to AdComs; they can be as rigorour as any 4 year university.

Plus, none of the local schools offer courses at night only. So, due to money, I would like to begin at a CC. Is this ok?

It will help.
Should I plan on taking a few upper-level courses at a university?

Patient contact experience and volunteering. Show us that you like being around sick and injured people.

And, aside from shadowing, what other EC's should I be considering; I do have children, and work, so time is limited.

Your GPA is too low for MD schools, and you still have yet to take the MCAT. You're fine for any DO program right now. I assume you need to take the pre-reqs, right? If you ace all of them, and some upper level UG courses, and ace MCAT, there are some MD schools that reward reinvention. But, since you're close to LECOM, it's the path of least resistance to being a doctor.

Also, do I realistically have a shot in the future, or is my seven years to get a B.A. and a 3.25 too overwhelmingly abhorrent? If I do have a chance, should I only look at D.O. schools? I do not have anything against osteopathic schools; actually, I am close to LECOM-Seton Hill and I love the idea of PBL's flexibility.


Good luck!

 

[1727]

Very informational and reassuring, Goro. Thank you. Yes, I am starting at the very beginning, so I have to take all the pre-reqs still. I am starting at a CC and will look into taking some upper-levels at Seton Hill. Also, with the new MCAT in 2015, should I take more than the basic pre-reqs? And I've read that it starts in the spring of 2015, but no specific month. Can I take the current MCAT in December of 2014 or up until the 2015 is enacted?

 

[Goro]

I think it wil depend upon your time line for applying. The MCAT scores are only good for X years at certain schools (but we see ALL of them, even from 10 years ago). I fyou youn you'll be set to go in, say, two-three years, then I believe that the 12/14 MCAT will suffice.

Very informational and reassuring, Goro. Thank you. Yes, I am starting at the very beginning, so I have to take all the pre-reqs still. I am starting at a CC and will look into taking some upper-levels at Seton Hill. Also, with the new MCAT in 2015, should I take more than the basic pre-reqs? And I've read that it starts in the spring of 2015, but no specific month. Can I take the current MCAT in December of 2014 or up until the 2015 is enacted?

 

[yossarian444]

That's total. I requested my transcripts, which I just requested, state 3.25 with 43 credits transferred in from community college. However, there were some courses from the CC that were never transferred into Seton Hill. And they were not good grades (c or below). There are not many retakes on my transcripts. When I begin this fall, I will be starting all over (think BIO 1, Chem 1, and college algebra). I have taken bio 1 and college alg years ago and received c's in both.

I'm not sure your "total" is really that. You need to calculate your GPA by hand. You can't just rely on Seton's calculations in how they incorporated your CC experience. As you note, they didn't include all classes.

So, you'll have to get transcripts from every CC you attended and Seton Hill. Then, plug in the courses one-by-one to come up with a final GPA. (Many online tools exist for this). Don't double count courses - if they show up on the CC transcript and on Seton's transcript via a transfer, only count the original grade. For courses that were re-taken, you'll have to perform separate analysis for DO route vs MD route.

It seems to me your GPA might be much lower than 3.25 once you include all the courses on all transcripts. You might have to re-take some courses to get your GPA up.

 

[1727]

That would be awful, yossarian444. Thanks for the input, I will look into that. However, I did speak to LECOM, who told me they would look at my Seton Hill transcript only since it is my final transcript. So, I was confused on whether or not they would look at my CC transcript from 8 years ago. They said no, which did not seem right to me.

 

[yossarian444]

That would be awful, yossarian444. Thanks for the input, I will look into that. However, I did speak to LECOM, who told me they would look at my Seton Hill transcript only since it is my final transcript. So, I was confused on whether or not they would look at my CC transcript from 8 years ago. They said no, which did not seem right to me.

When you apply, you have to submit transcripts from every institution you ever attended - this goes on the standard application. This is true for both MD and DO. The orgnization in charge of the application process then calculates a final GPA (broken into cumulative and science), based on all classes taken. DO and MD have a slightly different recipee for this calculation which involves retakes.

What an individual school chooses to look at from this standardized application is up to them. Presumably, some schools (LECOM?) might only look at your "latest transcript." However, most schools will at least look at your calculated total GPA even if they view the more recent coursework as a better proxy for your academic aptitude. Also, keep in mind that even if LECOM doesn't weigh old coursework as heavily, they will still see it which may raise red flags on your application. (Red flags are not necessarily stop signs though.)

Be aware that some schools "auto-filter" based on cumulative GPA's from the standardized application, thereby preventing the school from even getting to the point of dissecting your multiple transcripts.

Having said all this, people have gone to medical school after situations like yours through a lot of hard work in digging themselves out of the GPA hole. You read about it all the time on SDN. What you don't read about is all the people who just suddenly stop posting - presumably because they gave up or got rejected somewhere in their journey.

 

[1727]

When you apply, you have to submit transcripts from every institution you ever attended - this goes on the standard application. This is true for both MD and DO. The orgnization in charge of the application process then calculates a final GPA (broken into cumulative and science), based on all classes taken. DO and MD have a slightly different recipee for this calculation which involves retakes.

What an individual school chooses to look at from this standardized application is up to them. Presumably, some schools (LECOM?) might only look at your "latest transcript." However, most schools will at least look at your calculated total GPA even if they view the more recent coursework as a better proxy for your academic aptitude. Also, keep in mind that even if LECOM doesn't weigh old coursework as heavily, they will still see it which may raise red flags on your application. (Red flags are not necessarily stop signs though.)

Be aware that some schools "auto-filter" based on cumulative GPA's from the standardized application, thereby preventing the school from even getting to the point of dissecting your multiple transcripts.

Having said all this, people have gone to medical school after situations like yours through a lot of hard work in digging themselves out of the GPA hole. You read about it all the time on SDN. What you don't read about is all the people who just suddenly stop posting - presumably because they gave up or got rejected somewhere in their journey.

Thank you again, yossarian 444. So, unfortunately for me, this mean I should go back and retake some classes I did poorly in in CC. Although, in the long run, it'll most likely save me time. I'm glad I learned all of this now and not when it came time to apply. Thank you again for your direction.