Being Fined by the Board

Started by vardenafil
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vardenafil

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i guess i need a word or two of advice and maybe an ear to whine to. I found out today that I'm getting fined by the board for something I feel like i had little control over. i dont feel like going into too much detail as i dont care to and i dont know if the board reads these forums. long story short... my wife had a baby in December i took a planned week off to get things settled. during that time the guys at worked covered for me. week came and went i returned to work. about a week later i had unexpected surgery on my arm. i was out for a week and a half for that. so basically i was out 2 1/2 weeks during december. when i returned to work it was the day after christmas (our pharmacy was closed christmas day) i was in a cast and in a lot of pain. the manager scheduled me to work by myself. i expressed some concerns to him because it is always hella busy the day after any holiday. he told me he couldnt work because he already covered too much time for me. he wanted to spend time with his family. so i ended up working by myself with 5 techs. we ended up doing like 450+ scripts that day. someone in the know reported me to the pharmacy board. in my state one pharmacist can only have 3 techs under his supervision at a time. so im gonna get fined. the pharmacist refused to help me so i was on my own. if i would of sent my techs home as to obey the law. the day woulda sucked even more than it did. imagine doing 450 scripts with a pharmacist in a cast and 3 techs. not gonna happen. so its kinda damned if i do damned if i dont. i dont want to get my manager in trouble. i need this job there is very little job openings in town right now. i just dont feel like the situation was totally my fault as i had no choice in his scheduling. i express concerns to him. he denied my request for help based on his previous coverage for me. it appears the board will fine the store and myself. what should i do? should i just pay the fine? or fight it?
 
Make your manager/employer pay for it. It's their fault that you were scheduled with more than three techs and no other pharmacists. If they refuse to pay the fine, then you can think about your other options.
 
It seems like you have a decent enough case to at least have a chance. Has the Board given you a chance to appear before a panel and explain your side? If they haven't, there should be some sort of an appeals process.

I think you just need to decide whether it is worth your time to possibly start a long and protracted battle about this.
 
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Not to belittle you, but I work at a store with 2 other techs and 1 pharmacist and we clear 450+ on a daily basis, but it definitly isnt fun. I would seek legal advice and let both your employer and the board know you're serious about the allegations. Then roll from there.
 
the officer did say i can appear before the board and argue my case... i just dont know if my case is sound enough. plus the board is a 4 1/2 hour drive away. and far as doing 450+ scripts with just two techs. im not used to that. once upon a time when i worked for walgreens yes. but not now.
 
i would like to find out who reported me

not for retaliation purposes but for future reference to watch my back around the snitch
 
Phlame217 said:
Not to belittle you, but I work at a store with 2 other techs and 1 pharmacist and we clear 450+ on a daily basis, but it definitly isnt fun. I would seek legal advice and let both your employer and the board know you're serious about the allegations. Then roll from there.
Click to expand...

Really? Where do you work at?

Just wondering, are there any states that allows a pharmacist to supervise more than 2 tech? Not counting assistant (Cashier) or interns?
 
In Colorado I used to work with 5 techs by myself all the time. You have to look at your state laws. In Colorado you were limited to 3 technicians and an unlimited amount of ancillary personnel. Now the question is who and what are ancillary personnel? Essentially you could only have three techs engaged in pharmacy specific tasks. I always identified 2 techs as ancillary personnel. These techs could run the cash register put the order away, return drugs to the shelf, stock ect.

Sounds quite easy to appeal. Show up with a schedule that lists everyone who was working. Identify 3 technicians and 2 ancillary personnel and you should be good.
 
ethyl said:
Did you have any disgruntled techs working that day?
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like one of your technicians was not happy with you. Who else would have reported you?

I believe the board has to let you know who filled the complaint. I do not believe you can file an anonymous complaint. I would call the board and find out who made the complaint.
 
Sounds like you have a douche-bag for a boss. Forcing you to work after having a newborn and surgery? What the hell is wrong with that selfish ass?

It depends entirely on what state you're in but we're all 5 of the technicians performing "tech" duties? Does your state differentiate between state licensed techs and regular pharmacy clerks?
 
MountainPharmD said:
In Colorado I used to work with 5 techs by myself all the time. You have to look at your state laws. In Colorado you were limited to 3 technicians and an unlimited amount of ancillary personnel. Now the question is who and what are ancillary personnel? Essentially you could only have three techs engaged in pharmacy specific tasks. I always identified 2 techs as ancillary personnel. These techs could run the cash register put the order away, return drugs to the shelf, stock ect.

Sounds quite easy to appeal. Show up with a schedule that lists everyone who was working. Identify 3 technicians and 2 ancillary personnel and you should be good.
Click to expand...
I agree here...if this was the case for you, it shouldn't be that hard to appeal
 
I had a similar situation this past summer. I work in a hospital with "critical" pharmacist staffing, as we only have 5 pharmacists on staff. Pharmacy manager (pharmacist) has elective surgery, gets the whole summer off, much to the chagrin of everyone else who can only have max 3 weeks off 😡. One pharmacist goes on planned vacation (ok) and is gone for 3 weeks! Shortly after this pharmacist leaves, another one has unexpected eye surgery, which takes him out for a month. This leaves 2 pharmacists to operate the (never closed) pharmacy for 3 weeks. BTW, they are viewed as super-awesome pharmacists now 🙂. If the board found out about this, it would have been the pharmacy manager's fault since it's her license on the line and she chose to have the non-essential surgery at a time when we were already expecting a pharmacist shortage. What would have happened if you had called in sick, what with the post-op pain and such? Who would have come in? I would like to see the other pharmacist say "I want to spend time with my family" if it were his/her license on the line. Yes they pulled together for you, but a approved/planned vacation and unexpected surgery does not justify screwing you over. You should either 1)fight the fine (best idea), or 2)have your company pay it for you. It's not your fault no one would come in to help.
 
Phlame217 said:
Not to belittle you, but I work at a store with 2 other techs and 1 pharmacist and we clear 450+ on a daily basis, but it definitly isnt fun.
Click to expand...

Does your pharmacist have his/her arm in a cast? 🙄 I think that would severely slow down my work flow.

Sorry this happened to you; your employer should cover the cost.
 
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spacecowgirl said:
Does your pharmacist have his/her arm in a cast? 🙄 I think that would severely slow down my work flow.

Sorry this happened to you; your employer should cover the cost.
Click to expand...


One of my pharmacists actually just dislocated her arm last week from falling over a narc tote so they are putting her at drop off and bringing in a floater pharmacist to do the normal pharmacists duties.

They definitely should have helped you out in someway like this. Your boss sucks. Good luck!
 
Get a copy of the schedule, show that someone assigned 5 techs to come in and get a copy of when you were out and a doctors note for your surgery, if your arm is useless, that will definitly slow production down...
Common sense
 
Lotus89 said:
Get a copy of the schedule, show that someone assigned 5 techs to come in and get a copy of when you were out and a doctors note for your surgery, if your arm is useless, that will definitly slow production down...
Common sense
Click to expand...

The problem is that there were 2 pharmacists scheduled and 5 techs. One pharmacist left, leaving a 1:5 ratio. The pharmacist / OP should've had 2 techs go home, and let customers know there'd be a 1 or 2-hour wait until a floating pharmacist arrived. The ratio is in place for safety of the public. One pharmacist supervising 5 techs is unmanageable, and mistakes are more likely to have been made.
 
drugdoc said:
The problem is that there were 2 pharmacists scheduled and 5 techs. One pharmacist left, leaving a 1:5 ratio. The pharmacist / OP should've had 2 techs go home, and let customers know there'd be a 1 or 2-hour wait until a floating pharmacist arrived. The ratio is in place for safety of the public. One pharmacist supervising 5 techs is unmanageable, and mistakes are more likely to have been made.
Click to expand...

Either way...he got screwed over
 
Lotus89 said:
Either way...he got screwed over
Click to expand...

I disagree. It's the pharmacist's responsibility to know the laws, hence we take the law exam for our state. He needed to be proactive when he knew a law was going to be broken. There were options: send techs home, call in a floater, notify customers of the wait. Again, safety is the issue.
 
drugdoc said:
I disagree. It's the pharmacist's responsibility to know the laws, hence we take the law exam for our state. He needed to be proactive when he knew a law was going to be broken. There were options: send techs home, call in a floater, notify customers of the wait. Again, safety is the issue.
Click to expand...

Im not agreeing or disagreeing, either way it wasn't handled well
 
It sounds to me like you're going to have to take this one on the chin. There is no question that the company you work for left you holding the bag. Suffice to say it sucks. That being said, the only thing you can do is go up there take your scolding and pay the fine ( your company should pick up the tab). In retrospect what you should have done is send two techs home or send them to work in the store outside of the pharmacy. Let the phones ring like there's no tommorrow. Have a 3 hour wait and when physicians call tell them to leave it on a voice mail or call a pharmacy down the street. In essence, your pharmacy chain was negligent with respect to your license, however, it is your responsibity to protect your license. The retail chains certainly aren't going to it for you. When you go to the board you will probably be escorted by your district manager and a lawyer for the chain. Make no mistake, the lawyer for the chain is there to protect company assests, not yours.
 
So all 5 employees were classified as technicians?? Were they all doing technician jobs? or were there some doing cashier work? I know in Florida the ratio is 1:3 also, but you can have cashiers on duty also as long as they are not doing tech work. It depends on your state law, you should look into it. And i dont think the board should be fining you per se, but rather the company itself.
 
Phlame217 said:
Not to belittle you, but I work at a store with 2 other techs and 1 pharmacist and we clear 450+ on a daily basis, but it definitly isnt fun. I would seek legal advice and let both your employer and the board know you're serious about the allegations. Then roll from there.
Click to expand...

You must not answer the phones or deal with insurance issues or they must all be refills or your walgreens where other stores can do the work for you.

To be open 14 hours and only haveing 3 techs and a pharmacist seems impossible when your doing over 450 scripts daily... maybe one or two days but 7 days a week seems impossible.
 
drugdoc said:
The problem is that there were 2 pharmacists scheduled and 5 techs. One pharmacist left, leaving a 1:5 ratio. The pharmacist / OP should've had 2 techs go home, and let customers know there'd be a 1 or 2-hour wait until a floating pharmacist arrived. The ratio is in place for safety of the public. One pharmacist supervising 5 techs is unmanageable, and mistakes are more likely to have been made.
Click to expand...

Wow I wonder how many states have ratio laws?

Arizona has no ratio. You can have one pharmacist and 12 techs. My store is not that busy so the most techs in the store at a time is 5 and that is usually when the night staff is starting and day staff is leaving.

I don't think it is immpossible to manage more than 5 techs.

But when your busy enough to have that many then the 1 pharmacist is going to be a bottle neck.

If AZ had the ratio laws it would either create more pharmacist jobs or create very understaffed pharmaicies. I would probably guess the latter, since chains are all about making money.
 
Doctor M said:
So all 5 employees were classified as technicians?? Were they all doing technician jobs? or were there some doing cashier work? I know in Florida the ratio is 1:3 also, but you can have cashiers on duty also as long as they are not doing tech work. It depends on your state law, you should look into it. And i dont think the board should be fining you per se, but rather the company itself.
Click to expand...

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but as an intern I routinely worked with 3 other techs under 1 pharmacist. Is an intern classified as a tech or exempt from the 1:3 rule?
 
ethyl said:
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but as an intern I routinely worked with 3 other techs under 1 pharmacist. Is an intern classified as a tech or exempt from the 1:3 rule?
Click to expand...

I believe you would count as a tech...im not sure... That is a good question. I will have to look into it.
 
Under California law I'm fairly certain an intern would count against the technician count. But at least in CA you have to be performing "tech duties," so you can have 10,000 registers going with techs but only two techs actually counting at once.
 
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meister said:
Under California law I'm fairly certain an intern would count against the technician count.
Click to expand...

In California, the first pharmacist is allowed only 1 tech and 2 interns (exception: filling a prescription from a hospital or SNF). Any additional pharmacist = additional 2 techs and additional 2 interns. The number of techs and interns is not related.
 
drugdoc said:
The problem is that there were 2 pharmacists scheduled and 5 techs. One pharmacist left, leaving a 1:5 ratio. The pharmacist / OP should've had 2 techs go home, and let customers know there'd be a 1 or 2-hour wait until a floating pharmacist arrived. The ratio is in place for safety of the public. One pharmacist supervising 5 techs is unmanageable, and mistakes are more likely to have been made.
Click to expand...
Realistically speaking 1+5 in a high volume situation is a hell of alot safer than 1+3, so long as all the techs are trained.
 
ethyl said:
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but as an intern I routinely worked with 3 other techs under 1 pharmacist. Is an intern classified as a tech or exempt from the 1:3 rule?
Click to expand...
in the state of florida, interns don't count into the tech to pharmacist ratio...
 
sorry ive been working a lot this week. let me try to answer your questions.

crossurfingers said:
Just curious, how large is the fine?
🙁
Click to expand...

i wont know until i get the letter of reprimand back from the board. but the investigator told me that the board had their mind already made up about fining me. the fines for not maintaining proper ratio first offense starts at 250$

ethyl said:
Did you have any disgruntled techs working that day?
Click to expand...

no... not at me anyways. leading up to this situation there was a lot of tension between my manager and a few of my techs. in fact some of my techs hate my manager with a passion. I believe (my own personal opinion) one of the techs was trying to get my manager in trouble and i got dragged in to it.

meister said:
It depends entirely on what state you're in but we're all 5 of the technicians performing "tech" duties? Does your state differentiate between state licensed techs and regular pharmacy clerks?
Click to expand...

i tried to argue that point with the board investigator at first. even though there is no law stating such... per the boards interpretation of state law. if a person has a tech license they are a tech... regardless if they are performing non tech duties. they could be acting as a cashier or bagging groceries for that matter and if they are licensed as a tech then they are a tech.

SELDANE said:
It sounds to me like you're going to have to take this one on the chin. There is no question that the company you work for left you holding the bag. Suffice to say it sucks. That being said, the only thing you can do is go up there take your scolding and pay the fine ( your company should pick up the tab). In retrospect what you should have done is send two techs home or send them to work in the store outside of the pharmacy. Let the phones ring like there's no tommorrow. Have a 3 hour wait and when physicians call tell them to leave it on a voice mail or call a pharmacy down the street. In essence, your pharmacy chain was negligent with respect to your license, however, it is your responsibity to protect your license. The retail chains certainly aren't going to it for you. When you go to the board you will probably be escorted by your district manager and a lawyer for the chain. Make no mistake, the lawyer for the chain is there to protect company assests, not yours.
Click to expand...

i agree with you... its my fault. i knew the law. i should of sent a few girls home. if i was healthy i would of sent everyone home and said screw it. people could just wait. but i kinda felt that i had no choice in my decision. (i know its kinda flawed argument) its one of those damned if you do damned if you dont things. i was pretty much useless due to the pain, lack of motion etc... i felt like i had no business being back in the pharmacy that soon after surgery. none the less working alone. but if anything this has taught me to watch out for myself first. its kinda sad but i have learned that corporate doesn't careless what happens to their employees. i have already told my boss that if i have to pay the fine out of my own pocket he will have to look for a new pharmacist. oh by the way my girls are great. they have taken up a collection for me to help pay my fine. i have like 7 dollars in coins now. only 243$ more to go
 
Does one ever get off the public website the board keeps to screw pharmacists?
 
but if anything this has taught me to watch out for myself first. its kinda sad but i have learned that corporate doesn't careless what happens to their employees.
Click to expand...

Everyone eventually comes to this realization. I am sorry it took getting fined by the board for you. These corporate chains could give a crap less about you. You have to think of yourself first. I refuse to run around like a chicken with my head cut off. I work at the same speed and check and fill the same way no matter how busy we are. I do not care how long it takes me to get prescriptions out. The wait could be 15 minutes or it could be 2 hours. I do not care. What I care about is getting the right medication to the right patient with no mistakes. How long it takes makes no difference to me at all.

I think this was one of the more meaningful posts we have had on here in awhile. Everyone, students and Pharmacists alike should take notice. If your company forces you to work in unsafe conditions and you make a mistake, YOU are the one to pay for it….not the company.

So take care of yourself and your license first. In the end it benefits everyone.
 
MountainPharmD said:
Everyone eventually comes to this realization. I am sorry it took getting fined by the board for you. These corporate chains could give a crap less about you. You have to think of yourself first. I refuse to run around like a chicken with my head cut off. I work at the same speed and check and fill the same way no matter how busy we are. I do not care how long it takes me to get prescriptions out. The wait could be 15 minutes or it could be 2 hours. I do not care. What I care about is getting the right medication to the right patient with no mistakes. How long it takes makes no difference to me at all.

I think this was one of the more meaningful posts we have had on here in awhile. Everyone, students and Pharmacists alike should take notice. If your company forces you to work in unsafe conditions and you make a mistake, YOU are the one to pay for it….not the company.

So take care of yourself and your license first. In the end it benefits everyone.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree 100% with you there. However, kinda hard to work at your regular speed when you have a so many rx to check, a room full of patients waiting, and technicians giving you the "what's taking u so long" look....But yes, it's ultimately your license on the line if anything goes wrong....
 
JennyRx2007 said:
Yes, I agree 100% with you there. However, kinda hard to work at your regular speed when you have a so many rx to check, a room full of patients waiting, and technicians giving you the "what's taking u so long" look....But yes, it's ultimately your license on the line if anything goes wrong....
Click to expand...

I say again...who cares? The goal is to get the prescription out with no mistakes. If it gets so busy you feel like you have to speed up thats when you make mistakes.
 
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