Benefits of a physics degree in med school

[Catria]

I'm posting this not because I am a pre-med who wants to major in physics, but because I have a marketing plan aimed at pre-meds (and people who want to practice another healthcare profession).

While I understand that what advantages physicists enjoy on the MCAT are likely due, in part, to self-selection, I feel like I only have a partial list of physics benefits, supplied by the ACP. A rigorous physics degree grants one greater critical reasoning skills, a greater ability to understand complicated, abstrct concepts, better quantitative skills (it's not uncommon to find pre-meds that are a little weak mathematically) and better problem solving, all of which are advantages that, according to the ACP, last through clinical rotations and perhaps even residency. One more benefit (less certain about this one, though) is that physics' workload is perhaps the closest thing to a med school workload.

Are there any other advantages of choosing to major in physics that last through med school?

Of course, the downside is that physics is generally consider harder than majors conventionally declared by pre-meds. (And, as far as the med schools in my area are concerned, they will have to spend an additional year in med school getting up to speed in biology and biochemistry, which is not the case in the US)

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[fuzzytoad]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-did-you-gain-from-being-an-engineer.1054241/

There's nothing anyone here could tell you that hasn't already been said - only new ways of looking at it. What's this marketing campaign for though?

 

[Goro]

I can think of no reason that physics would be of any use to a medical student OR clinician, unless one were to specialize in nuclear medicine.

OK, maybe some elements of physiology, relating to gas pressure and fluid dynamics.

I also see no reason for physics to be a prerequisite. It's so, well, 20th Century.

Times have changed in the 100 years since the Flexner report was released.

I'm posting this not because I am a pre-med who wants to major in physics, but because I have a marketing plan aimed at pre-meds (and people who want to practice another healthcare profession).

While I understand that what advantages physicists enjoy on the MCAT are likely due, in part, to self-selection, I feel like I only have a partial list of physics benefits, supplied by the ACP. A rigorous physics degree grants one greater critical reasoning skills, a greater ability to understand complicated, abstrct concepts, better quantitative skills (it's not uncommon to find pre-meds that are a little weak mathematically) and better problem solving, all of which are advantages that, according to the ACP, last through clinical rotations and perhaps even residency. One more benefit (less certain about this one, though) is that physics' workload is perhaps the closest thing to a med school workload.

Are there any other advantages of choosing to major in physics that last through med school?

Of course, the downside is that physics is generally consider harder than majors conventionally declared by pre-meds. (And, as far as the med schools in my area are concerned, they will have to spend an additional year in med school getting up to speed in biology and biochemistry, which is not the case in the US)

 

[masaraksh]

I can think of no reason that physics would be of any use to a medical student OR clinician, unless one were to specialize in nuclear medicine.

OK, maybe some elements of physiology, relating to gas pressure and fluid dynamics.

I also see no reason for physics to be a prerequisite. It's so, well, 20th Century.

Times have changed in the 100 years since the Flexner report was released.

I usually like your posts, but the bolded is such a ridiculous statement.

 

[Catria]

What I would like to accomplish with my plan for a marketing campaign: lure some pre-meds into enrolling in physics as undergrads (one point that is Quebec-specific is that the harder the major, the less absolute GPA is required to get an interview) because we feel that we did all we could for what we deem our "natural" student base...

 

[Life Sucks]

Well, if you don't get in, you can get into a high paying engineering or physics job.

 

[Lucca]

The benefit of physics is that it teaches skills and not just knowledge. Physics is a very applied subject and navigating the nuances of the subject while recalling an expansive knowledge base under constraints of limited given information is a very marketable, universal skill. Biology, on the other hand, just teaches you a bunch of facts.

That being said, physics classes are an order of magnitude more difficult than any other science class and you it is much harder to earn an A. If I was guaranteed the A in every class, I would still be a physics major. I love physics and it is a tragedy that the game won't let me follow that passion.

 

[Ismet]

There are physics concepts in several fields...electricity with cardio, forces and pressures with pulm, etc. I believe radiology also relies on understanding concepts from physics.

I agree with @Arcumis in that physics requires a different kind of thinking and logic than courses in biology. I absolutely loved physics in undergrad; understanding a concept and then having to apply it to a new problem was interesting. Memorizing a bunch of facts for bio was definitely not as interesting. I think medicine combines both of those things...it's heavily fact-driven, you have to know your stuff, but then you use that knowledge base to come up with differential diagnoses and start logically working through the patient's problem.

That said, I don't think it's necessary to major in physics in order to benefit from it.

 

[fuzzytoad]

The benefits of studying physics are no different that of mathematics or any rigorous engineering subject. It's a way of thinking; tools for understanding complex systems, breaking down difficult problems, and managing abstraction.

Goro is right in the sense that rarely will you ever use a Fourier transform to do anything in med school - but undergrad as a whole is less about knowledge learned than skills, attitudes, and mindsets acquired.

And not to sound dismissive, but if you haven't studied advanced mathematics/physics or at least have had some kind of meaningful exposure to it, you can't really answer this question to any reasonable degree. Most of us posting from the other side of the fence are here because we are pre-meds or med students in addition to this background.

 

[mke520]

Let's be honest, a degree in physics isn't going to help you very much in medical school at all. Physics beyond the requirement for medical school is not going to be very useful for you, but of course knowledge of basic physics is important to understand some fundamental aspects of physiology. I'm a biology major and so I've taken classes such as molecular, cell, genetics, microbiology, immunology, and biochemistry which are all courses taught in medical school, not advanced physics. I believe my degree will give me a much more solid foundation when I start medical school this fall than a person with a physics degree. Also, a degree in biology doesn't just teach you a bunch of facts, sure there is a ton of memorization, but its about applying those "facts" to the physiological conditions within a cell or organism and coming up with a conclusion, something you'll be doing for the rest of you life as a doctor. If you enjoy physics, then go for it, but don't think that physics is going to prepare you "better" for medical school than a degree in biology, chemistry, or another science related major.

 

[Goro]

When you get to MSII, let us know if you change your opinion.

I usually like your posts, but the bolded is such a ridiculous statement.

 

[487806]

When you get to MSII, let us know if you change your opinion.

An MS2 disagrees with you.

There are physics concepts in several fields...electricity with cardio, forces and pressures with pulm, etc. I believe radiology also relies on understanding concepts from physics.

I agree with @Arcumis in that physics requires a different kind of thinking and logic than courses in biology. I absolutely loved physics in undergrad; understanding a concept and then having to apply it to a new problem was interesting. Memorizing a bunch of facts for bio was definitely not as interesting. I think medicine combines both of those things...it's heavily fact-driven, you have to know your stuff, but then you use that knowledge base to come up with differential diagnoses and start logically working through the patient's problem.

That said, I don't think it's necessary to major in physics in order to benefit from it.

The benefits of studying physics are no different that of mathematics or any rigorous engineering subject. It's a way of thinking; tools for understanding complex systems, breaking down difficult problems, and managing abstraction.

Goro is right in the sense that rarely will you ever use a Fourier transform to do anything in med school - but undergrad as a whole is less about knowledge learned than skills, attitudes, and mindsets acquired.

And not to sound dismissive, but if you haven't studied advanced mathematics/physics or at least have had some kind of meaningful exposure to it, you can't really answer this question to any reasonable degree. Most of us posting from the other side of the fence are here because we are pre-meds or med students in addition to this background.

This is a solid post right there.

One of the awesome residents on SDN said the following:

Any time you need to interpret a waveform or trend data, you will benefit from a functional understanding of calculus. The example last night was a patient on a ventilator and even with 2 extra years of training, much of which was ICU as an R2, simply understanding the concept of the area under a curve and what it means meant that I was better equipped to manage a patient than them. Pressure tracings are another area, probably a couple others I could come up with as well.

As far as data trending, you will notice that the concept of a second derivative is lost on many. They understand that a drop in hemoglobin is bad, but they can't make as accurate predictions as others who understand basic calculus. It is subtle, but it is clear that people who took the minimal prerequisites are at a clear disadvantage when it comes to being a very good doctor.

This applies to anyone who does any critical care. That includes, but is in no way limited to EVERY IM, surgery, pediatric, and neurology resident that trains in this country. That makes up the lions share of the residents in this country.

I don't want there to be any confusion. Being able to integrate or take a derivative isn't useful outside of medical physics/rad onc and maybe some radiology. But, this is no different than the fact that nothing you learn CONTENT WISE in ANY undergrad biology, chemistry, biochemistry, orgo etc will help you as a physician. Many of those classes will teach you how to think and give you skills that will make you a better doctor. Will you be a doctor, not get sued and probably never notice your deficiency? Yes. But that doesn't mean that others aren't going to benefit from understanding at a higher level.




You can not understand Physics without calculus. Sorry, but you can't. Anyone that has studied a reasonable amount of Physics knows this. You are essentially learning Physics from the 1700s and then memorizing formulas derived later. The formulas are irrelevant to modern clinical medical practice. If by made the concepts easier, they helped you memorize formulas easier, then yes, it did, but I think you are missing the fact that algebra based introductory Physics doesn't actually teach concepts. It tells you formulas that hold true most of the time and then tells you to apply them.


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I am in no way saying that pre-meds shouldn't take algebra based Physics. Many students can not handle calculus based courses, some because they lack the innate ability, but far more commonly, they lack a foundation in basic mathematics and problem solving that facilitates understanding calculus from years of inadequate effort in teaching from elementary school onward. It is pointless to torture yourself with calculus based Physics if you are taking Physics because it is a prerequisite. If you are looking to get an A, do well on the MCAT and get out, then you will hurt yourself by wasting time with other things.

Make that what you will

 

[Catria]

Fine, I acknowledge that the ACP already did cover pretty much everything we could use as selling points... then again, some med school (can't remember which med school) says that most advantages one could get from a biology or a biochemistry degree fade by the end of MS1 while the degree at which one acquires skills in physics is usually high enough to last through MS3/4 and, in a few specialties (rad-onc, radiology, nuke-med, and a few others), residency.

It so happens that I am a physics graduate student.

 

[gyngyn]

One can learn to think in any major.

 

[fuzzytoad]

One can learn to think in any major.

Well of course. But I think we can agree that the content of what you are thinking about has something to do with it.

Physics isn't about learning math-ey formulas, crunching numbers, solving for x, and writing QED. It is about modelling complex systems with many dimensions of uncertainty in a way unambiguously exposes what these uncertainties are and what can be done to eliminate them. We then do experiments to probe these areas, and adjust our model based on the results. If you can't see the parallel to clinical diagnosis and research I don't know how else to put it. In physics we naturally choose the most rigorous manner of symbolic representation (math), but that takes nothing away from the core of what we are trying to accomplish.

That said this is largely dependent on the person and it is definitely possible to squeak by a physics degree by only learning the aforementioned things physics is not about. That's why I think this is a hard sell for you, Catria. "Analysis" and "problem solving" are used so often in many different contexts that it's lost all meaning to most people (you more or less just think "smart-brainey stuff"). But they are truly useful skills and generally applicable in many, many, many fields.

 

[XmedBarney]

In a word, no. I am a Math/Phys major and your understanding of Besssel functions, Fourier transforms, Time-independent perturbation theory, stellar evolution, phase space, Hamiltonians, Poisson brackets, tensors, invariance of Maxwell's equations, or any other number of things will make no difference in medical school. But you will have a very deep appreciation for the natural order of the world, and understanding of things at a more fundamental level than a biologist or chemist. If this appeals to you, then you should be a physics major.

 

[Catria]

In a word, no. I am a Math/Phys major and your understanding of Besssel functions, Fourier transforms, Time-independent perturbation theory, stellar evolution, phase space, Hamiltonians, Poisson brackets, tensors, invariance of Maxwell's equations, or any other number of things will make no difference in medical school. But you will have a very deep appreciation for the natural order of the world, and understanding of things at a more fundamental level than a biologist or chemist. If this appeals to you, then you should be a physics major.

The ACP never mentioned physical knowledge; all that the ACP talks about when it comes to the benefits of a physics major (or a math major for that matter) is the various skills that are developed in there and that are transferrable from a field to another. I know it is going to be a risky plan at best, though.

 

[XmedBarney]

The ACP never mentioned physical knowledge; all that the ACP talks about when it comes to the benefits of a physics major (or a math major for that matter) is the various skills that are developed in there and that are transferrable from a field to another. I know it is going to be a risky plan at best, though.

If you're after problem solving skills, then take a couple of semeters of physics and maths courses, there's no need to risk your GPA and spend all your free time solving problem sets.

 

[knv2u]

I'm posting this not because I am a pre-med who wants to major in physics, but because I have a marketing plan aimed at pre-meds (and people who want to practice another healthcare profession).

While I understand that what advantages physicists enjoy on the MCAT are likely due, in part, to self-selection, I feel like I only have a partial list of physics benefits, supplied by the ACP. A rigorous physics degree grants one greater critical reasoning skills, a greater ability to understand complicated, abstrct concepts, better quantitative skills (it's not uncommon to find pre-meds that are a little weak mathematically) and better problem solving, all of which are advantages that, according to the ACP, last through clinical rotations and perhaps even residency. One more benefit (less certain about this one, though) is that physics' workload is perhaps the closest thing to a med school workload.

Are there any other advantages of choosing to major in physics that last through med school?

Of course, the downside is that physics is generally consider harder than majors conventionally declared by pre-meds. (And, as far as the med schools in my area are concerned, they will have to spend an additional year in med school getting up to speed in biology and biochemistry, which is not the case in the US)

I think it depends on the school. At my school, chemistry was taught in the same way (i.e. concept based application, etc.) and appeared to be equal in rigor to the physics courses at my school, but I do agree that physics could open some interesting doors if medical school falls through.

 

[XmedBarney]

I think it depends on the school. At my school, chemistry was taught in the same way (i.e. concept based application, etc.) and appeared to be equal in rigor to the physics courses at my school, but I do agree that physics could open some interesting doors if medical school falls through.

Disagree with you on both points. While I can't speak in general about your school, chemistry courses tend to be less mathematically rigorous, and it's difficult to compare chemistry to physics, the courses really have nothing to do with each other and applications tend to run in different directions. On the second point, I would say that it's better to be a competent chemist than a physicist. Relatively speaking, industry requires more chemists than physicists.

 

[knv2u]

Disagree with you on both points. While I can't speak in general about your school, chemistry courses tend to be less mathematically rigorous, and it's difficult to compare chemistry to physics, the courses really have nothing to do with each other and applications tend to run in different directions. On the second point, I would say that it's better to be a competent chemist than a physicist. Relatively speaking, industry requires more chemists than physicists.

I don't think the fields are separate/unrelated as you state. In fact, I would argue that chemistry is applied physics.

 

[listener23]

15-20 years from now no medical school in this country will still have physics as a prereq.

 

[knv2u]

15-20 years from now no medical school in this country will still have physics as a prereq.

I think it is more likely that it will all be crammed into a single semester rather than ending it all together.

 

[XmedBarney]

I don't think the fields are separate/unrelated as you state. In fact, I would argue that chemistry is applied physics.

Of course, I don't mean to say they are entirely unrelated, the body of knowledge that is chemistry is built on physics, but the main thrusts of research in both fields go in separate ways. Also, I too used to think chemistry is just applied physics, until I tried to calculate titration points using Schrodingers equation. 🙁

 

[fuzzytoad]

I don't think the fields are separate/unrelated as you state. In fact, I would argue that chemistry is applied physics.

Everything is applied physics. Nature is applied physics - we just call things physics when there is sufficient math to warrant it (physical chemistry, biophysics...).

On the other hand chemistry as a whole is far less abstract meaning that, in general, the problems you will be facing will be far less exotic and the tools for solving them far less sophisticated.

 

[deleted407021]

I also see no reason for physics to be a prerequisite. It's so, well, 20th Century.

Times have changed in the 100 years since the Flexner report was released.

One of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Let's make it happen.

 

[487806]

In a word, no. I am a Math/Phys major and your understanding of Besssel functions, Fourier transforms, Time-independent perturbation theory, stellar evolution, phase space, Hamiltonians, Poisson brackets, tensors, invariance of Maxwell's equations, or any other number of things will make no difference in medical school. But you will have a very deep appreciation for the natural order of the world, and understanding of things at a more fundamental level than a biologist or chemist. If this appeals to you, then you should be a physics major.

Thanks a lot for giving me those nightmares. Jerk

 

[487806]

One of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Let's make it happen.

Nah. Algebra-based physics should be eliminated and replaced with calculus-based physics. Prereqs should meet 3 categories:

1. Physical: calculus, gen chem and calc-based physics
2. Biological: biology, ochem and biochem
3. Social: psychology and sociology

 

[WierdScience]

I think it depends on the school. At my school, chemistry was taught in the same way (i.e. concept based application, etc.) and appeared to be equal in rigor to the physics courses at my school, but I do agree that physics could open some interesting doors if medical school falls through.

I went to a top 10 chemistry program and have taken a few physics courses as well and from my experience chemistry and physics are extremely related. At my school, chemistry was just as rigorous as physics. There was a strong math and physics focus in many courses, such as quantum, thermo, inorganic, and quantitative chemistry. I do not think that physics would open more doors or benefit someone more than chemistry. An understanding of complex chemistry will be much more relevant in medicine than physics. In addition, I think that both fields equally prepare you in terms of critical thinking, problem solving, mathematics, and abstract thinking. However, the OP claims that physics will better prepare someone for quantitative thinking but I think this is not true because chemistry is more quantitatively focused than physics. We specifically take quantitative chem.

Disagree with you on both points. While I can't speak in general about your school, chemistry courses tend to be less mathematically rigorous, and it's difficult to compare chemistry to physics, the courses really have nothing to do with each other and applications tend to run in different directions. On the second point, I would say that it's better to be a competent chemist than a physicist. Relatively speaking, industry requires more chemists than physicists.

While some chemistry programs may be less mathematically rigorous, Calc I, II, & III, linear algebra, and partial differential equations were prerequisites to taking upper division chemistry at my school. Also, it was entertaining to watch the rivalry that the Chem and Phys departments had at my school; they would often crack jokes about the others lack of focus in one area or lack of applicability. I would also wager, that both chemistry and physics professors have a very strong understanding of physics. I also think that chemistry is a field that is evolving more than physics is.

Additionally, there is a reason that biology has been the go to degree for entering medical school for many decades. It is very relative to medicine. However, I also believe that some more rigorous problem solving and critical thinking degrees will be more beneficial for medical school and the MCAT, which is why I majored in both biology and chemistry.

 

[deleted407021]

Nah. Algebra-based physics should be eliminated and replaced with calculus-based physics. Prereqs should meet 3 categories:

1. Physical: calculus, gen chem and calc-based physics
2. Biological: biology, ochem and biochem
3. Social: psychology and sociology

Why is calc based physics so important for a physician who will never be building a warp core or nuclear reactors or particle accelerator? All the calc required for radiology and rad onc is covered during residency.

 

[487806]

Why is calc based physics so important for a physician who will never be building a warp core or nuclear reactors or particle accelerator? All the calc required for radiology and rad onc is covered during residency.

Did you even read the posts I quoted? @mimelim @Ismet @fuzzytoad all provide very solid arguments

 

[WierdScience]

Nah. Algebra-based physics should be eliminated and replaced with calculus-based physics. Prereqs should meet 3 categories:

1. Physical: calculus, gen chem and calc-based physics
2. Biological: biology, ochem and biochem
3. Social: psychology and sociology

I agree with you completely. Algebra based physics is a waste of time. I am aware that it is the way physics is tested on the MCAT but that does not matter as much to me as the fact that algebra based physics goes into much less detail and leaves you understanding the most basic physics principles at a much lower level. If you study physics with calculus or physics for scientists and engineers you will have the same ability to quickly think about simple physics equations on the MCAT but you will carry a greater understanding of "real" physics into medical school or another profession.

 

[487806]

I agree with you completely. Algebra based physics is a waste of time. I am aware that it is the way physics is tested on the MCAT but that does not matter as much to me as the fact that algebra based physics goes into much less detail and leaves you understanding the most basic physics principles at a much lower level. If you study physics with calculus or physics for scientists and engineers you will have the same ability to quickly think about simple physics equations on the MCAT but you will carry a greater understanding of "real" physics into medical school or another profession.

Yup. An important example: people who claim they learned E&M by algebea-based physics are liars or frankly they learned nothing at all! Yet E&M is a required prereq and tested on the MCAT.

 

[deleted407021]

Did you even read the posts I quoted? @mimelim @Ismet @fuzzytoad all provide very solid arguments

Yes, but it is not necessary to havea strong physics background to develop problem solving skills. Any decently creative individual can figure out different means of approaching a situation. They can draw upon other parts of their backgrounds in order to do so. Not every innovative person in the world has taken a rinkidink calc based physics sequence which doesn't really make that much use of calc, anyway.

 

[487806]

Yes, but it is not necessary to havea strong physics background to develop problem solving skills. Any decently creative individual can figure out different means of approaching a situation. They can draw upon other parts of their backgrounds in order to do so. Not every innovative person in the world has taken a rinkidink calc based physics sequence which doesn't really make that much use if calc, anyway.

Well, it's obvious that medicine is for everyone right?

It's incredibly narrow-minded to claim that having apathy for the physical world is perfectly valid reason for entering medicine. Solid, fundamental comprehension on the physical world is just as important as understanding the biological and social worlds, so it's wrong to dismiss physics just because it doesn't have direct relationship with medicine (btw, neither does ochem or English or social sciences, but they're all requirements for a very good reason). Let medical school prep you for medicine and UG be the place where you become well-informed in the fundamental aspects of the world.

Plus it does adcoms a favor by eliminating a huge sea of math-hating applicants without any hindrance.

 

[WierdScience]

Yes, but it is not necessary to havea strong physics background to develop problem solving skills. Any decently creative individual can figure out different means of approaching a situation. They can draw upon other parts of their backgrounds in order to do so. Not every innovative person in the world has taken a rinkidink calc based physics sequence which doesn't really make that much use of calc, anyway.

Rinkidink? Because furthering your education is futile and lame? I just think that if one is going to spend the time to take a physics sequence in the first place, it might as well be a more in-depth course that will be more beneficial in the future. There is no point in starting out at a disadvantage. And if you are someone who is against taking any physics sequence as you seem to be, good luck on the MCAT.

 

[487806]

Rinkidink? Because furthering your education is futile and lame? I just think that if one is going to spend the time to take a physics sequence in the first place, it might as well be a more in-depth course that will be more beneficial in the future. There is no point in starting out at a disadvantage. And if you are someone who is against taking any physics sequence as you seem to be, good luck on the MCAT.

Major emphasis on the bold. This is exactly the typical premed mindset: "Why should I waste my time and effort taking useless physics and math courses that won't be useful if I become a doctor?" Yes because for premeds, UG is another hoop to jump through to get into that prized med school. Furthering education is a waste of time 😛

 

[deleted407021]

Well, it's obvious that medicine is for everyone right?

It's incredibly narrow-minded to claim that having apathy for the physical world is perfectly valid reason for entering medicine. Solid, fundamental comprehension on the physical world is just as important as understanding the biological and social worlds, so it's wrong to dismiss physics just because it doesn't have direct relationship with medicine (btw, neither does ochem or English or social sciences, but they're all requirements for a very good reason). Let medical school prep you for medicine and UG be the place where you become well-informed in the fundamental aspects of the world

I won't be called narrow minded.
I'm not arguing that it is not valuable. I enjoy learning about physical processes. That's my favorite part of ochem, but you consistently push calc based physics as being so imperative to the understanding of the universe that you can't develop a well rounded conceptual knowledge pool without it. What people need is a conceptual understanding. Not the utmost capacity to calculate electron shift through a conductor. With a basic but thorough understanding comes an appreciation of what is going on in the world around us.

 

[487806]

I won't be called narrow minded.
I'm not arguing that it is not valuable. I enjoy learning about physical processes. That's my favorite part of ochem, but you consistently push calc based physics as being so imperative to the understanding of the universe that you can't develop a well rounded conceptual knowledge pool without it. What people need is a conceptual understanding. Not the utmost capacity to calculate electron shift through a conductor. With a basic but thorough understanding comes an appreciation of what is going on in the world around us.

Calc-based physics involves and requires conceptual understanding! How is that difficult to understand? You're just isolating a detail and claiming that because that detail is too technical and irrelevant, calc-based physics should be eliminated.

And you do realize the guy who created calculus did so to understand the physical world right?

 

[deleted407021]

Rinkidink? Because furthering your education is futile and lame? I just think that if one is going to spend the time to take a physics sequence in the first place, it might as well be a more in-depth course that will be more beneficial in the future. There is no point in starting out at a disadvantage. And if you are someone who is against taking any physics sequence as you seem to be, good luck on the MCAT.

See my post above. Is physics more valuable than history, or music? Maybe to you. While I support having a thorough understanding of as wide a range of topics as possible, some fields are more important to some than others.

 

[mcloaf]

You physics majors are a touchy bunch. Realize that just because someone argues that doing a whole degree in physics doesn't confer much in the way of tangible advantages in medical school, that person can still agree that physics is a useful and interesting field of study that one should pursue if so inclined.

 

[487806]

See my post above. Is physics more valuable than history, or music? Maybe to you. While I support having a thorough understanding of as wide a range of topics as possible, some fields are more important to some than others.

Out of curiosity, have you even taken calc-based physics?

 

[deleted407021]

Calc-based physics involves and requires conceptual understanding! How is that difficult to understand? You're just isolating a detail and claiming that because that detail is too technical and irrelevant, calc-based physics should be eliminated.

And you do realize the guy who created calculus did so to understand the physical world right?

You misread what I meant regarding a conceptual understanding. Calculus was developed to better explain what couldn't be reached using trig, I know. My phone is dying. I'll get back to y'all later.

 

[487806]

You misread what I meant regarding a conceptual understanding. Calculus was developed to better explain what couldn't be reached using trig, I know. My phone is dying. I'll get back to y'all later.

Rather than me reiterating what I usually say, I think it's safe to say overall that the point of UG is to have a well-rounded education, and physics is best learned through calc-based approach. That right there we can agree hopefully. Why physics is needed for medicine is just based on personal taste.

You physics majors are a touchy bunch. Realize that just because someone argues that doing a whole degree in physics doesn't confer much in the way of tangible advantages in medical school, that person can still agree that physics is a useful and interesting field of study that one should pursue if so inclined.

We aren't talking about the major. Just the simple point why the physics prereq should be required and why that prereq should be calc-based. Of course, majors are a matter of choice.

Physics degree in its application to medicine is just like any other degree: it's useful based on how you view it. I think that's a fair statement.

 

[WierdScience]

See my post above. Is physics more valuable than history, or music? Maybe to you. While I support having a thorough understanding of as wide a range of topics as possible, some fields are more important to some than others.

I have extremely varying interests and love to learn about all sorts of things but I think that people are a little confused as to why you are arguing against studying physics in more detail when there is an option. For med school prerequisites, you're still going to take a year of psychics, so why not take the series that is clearly more beneficial? If you cannot be bothered with the extra effort personally, that is understandable but I cannot understand arguing it as the better option.

 

[jvquarterback]

As a prior math major (mostly analysis stuff) and current radiation oncologist I have to say my math degree was useless in preparing me for what I actually do. However, that is true of 97% of undergrad and 90% of medical school. What my math degree was good for was making the interviewers for med school and residency think I was smart. I like math and it was my best subject so it was easy for me to get good grades. I imagine if you are good at physics and like it (and can get good grades in it) that would be the best reason for choosing it as a major if you're planning to go to medical school.

That said, the primary, secondary, undergraduate and medical education systems in the US are nearly a complete waste of time.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I can think of no reason that physics would be of any use to a medical student OR clinician, unless one were to specialize in nuclear medicine.

OK, maybe some elements of physiology, relating to gas pressure and fluid dynamics.

I also see no reason for physics to be a prerequisite. It's so, well, 20th Century.

Times have changed in the 100 years since the Flexner report was released.

Or radiology or radiation oncology

 

[XmedBarney]

@Goro @J Senpai By your line of reasoning, we should do away with the requirement to have a bachelors degree at all, afterall the vast majority of a majors curriculum is useless to med students, why not just have everyone do a post-bac?

I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but @J Senpai is free to enjoy as much history and english as he/she wants in the 15th century, if you want to live in the modern world you should learn a little about all the things that went into making it.

Furthermore what people need to understand is that what we learn in undergraduate, med school, residency forms the basis of a career that will span decades, and medicine is increasingly relies on advanced technology. An understading of how the technology works and being intellectually equipped to keep up with rapid changes will define weather we remain doctors or become glorified clerks that push buttons. Your knowledge of history or english will be irrelevant to being a apex level care provider in a rapidly evolving field. However, your knowledge and depth of understanding in physics, computer science and electronics will serve both you and your patients much better.

 

[Patassa]

That said, the primary, secondary, undergraduate and medical education systems in the US are nearly a complete waste of time.

What do you like as an alternative?

 

[deleted407021]

@Goro @J Senpai By your line of reasoning, we should do away with the requirement to have a bachelors degree at all, afterall the vast majority of a majors curriculum is useless to med students, why not just have everyone do a post-bac?

I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but @J Senpai is free to enjoy as much history and english as he/she wants in the 15th century, if you want to live in the modern world you should learn a little about all the things that went into making it.

Furthermore what people need to understand is that what we learn in undergraduate, med school, residency forms the basis of a career that will span decades, and medicine is increasingly relies on advanced technology. An understading of how the technology works and being intellectually equipped to keep up with rapid changes will define weather we remain doctors or become glorified clerks that push buttons. Your knowledge of history or english will be irrelevant to being a apex level care provider in a rapidly evolving field However, your knowledge and depth of understanding of physics, computer science and electronics will serve both you and your patients much better.

He, by the way. I'm going to pretend you didn't relegate the value of history and english to only the 15th century.

I am in no way opposed to the gaining of understanding our technology, however, a mathematically based understanding of a tool is different from a technical understanding. My grandfather is a very well accomplished computer programmer, but he can't use a PC to save his life. The is the difference, and being able to adapt to and readily make use of new technology is far different from understanding the physics that govern its internal operations.