Bergen Regional Medical Center

[LoveMedicine100]

Is Bergen Regional Medical Center participating in the match this year? Is it out of the match?

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[splik]

regardless you would do well to avoid it like the plague.

 

[Yoyomama88]

why what you heard about it?

 

[shan564]

It's just one of the many IMG factories in New York. I'd avoid community hospitals in NYC in general, with the exception of St. Luke's and Maimonides.

 

[drno31]

Yea, avoid NYC community programs if you want to avoid the most acute pathologies and practicing with some of the neediest people.

 

[shan564]

Yea, avoid NYC community programs if you want to avoid the most acute pathologies and practicing with some of the neediest people.

NYC isn't the only place with the most acute pathology and the neediest people. Ever heard of Detroit? And there's no shortage of that in Cleveland, Miami, St. Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, etc...

 

[Dharma]

NYC isn't the only place with the most acute pathology and the neediest people. Ever heard of Detroit? And there's no shortage of that in Cleveland, Miami, St. Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, etc...

that pic is great! the only thing that doesn't apply is the brooklyn part... because it's become so darn trendy and all the hipsters and yuppies are taking over. (i cringed the last time i visited my old neighborhood). regardless, very true theme represented in that pic. as a new yorker, sometimes it's a struggle to remember (or realize) that there's a huge world with a lot to offer OUTSIDE of NYC. anyone who has had to leave the city (for one reason or another) has struggled with this thought to some degree. (boy do i miss it though...well, most of it at least...)

 

[Nasrudin]

Although the New York-centric cartoon is funny, i don't think drno31's rebuttal pertained to that but rather our uncomfortably squirmy avoidance of the how we regard IMG heavy community programs.

It seems you can't broach this subject very easily without hitting the minefield of coded liberal hot button formulary responses that seem particularly dense in psychiatry venues. Wherein everybody assumes the preemptive position of offense as if good and evil depends on it.

Some of these programs are the only stop-gap of psychiatric service in communities that would otherwise have nothing. My home program bears semblance to this. And is IMG heavy. Although that rebuttal could well be inverted for sincerity by asking which of these heroes at these programs would stay if given the opportunity to get a spot at well-heeled, well funded programs.

I'm actually trying to discover what this issue means for me in comprising my list. Without shame or pretense i will say it does matter to me. I want to see at least a balanced demographic. Although with smaller programs like my own that is a dubious presupposition in itself.

 

[shan564]

I don't think that anybody is suggesting that those programs shouldn't exist. It's more of a comment on the way in which they are run. For instance, if a program doesn't even participate in the Match, that suggests that they're trying to take advantage of IMGs who are desperate to find a spot.

 

[Nasrudin]

I don't think that anybody is suggesting that those programs shouldn't exist. It's more of a comment on the way in which they are run. For instance, if a program doesn't even participate in the Match, that suggests that they're trying to take advantage of IMGs who are desperate to find a spot.

I see it as a somewhat sensitive but nonspecific test for giving up on recruitment. The very top programs seem to do this to some extent as well albeit for different reasons. In both cases there is a long line for whatever is being offered. Prestige vs a ticket to US practice. In either what's the motivation to not use the residents. Maybe less so at the top because everybody is at least watching. Whereas nobody cares about the disenfranchised. They get what they get.

That's just what's up. I never understood the reticence is seeing it for what it is. IMG density is short hand the same way the scores used to measure us are. The competitive applicants and programs alike use shorthand.

Unlike me, people from top programs with killer scores, aren't sifting through websites with a magnifying glass looking for more subtle indicators of a program's strength despite its middling or nonexistent reputation. This is how ugly people find each other and go to the prom together. Unfortunately for IMG's as amazing as they might be as individuals or as amazing as they might be in the future (bill gates) their limited options collectively signify a marker of concern for a program's lack of interest in self upkeep. And maintaining some baseline sexiness.

 

[LoveMedicine100]

Can someone tell me if bergen regional will be participating in match this year?

 

[Nasrudin]

Can someone tell me if bergen regional will be participating in match this year?

Yeah. I mean. They're on ERAS. I can only assume that that's what they intend.

 

[splik]

Yeah. I mean. They're on ERAS. I can only assume that that's what they intend.

I dont know the answer to the question, but ERAS has nothing to do with the match, I think all programs nowadays use ERAS for residency applications. so the following doesn't follow on, I'm afraid.

 

[whopper]

Avoid it.

 

[Nasrudin]

I dont know the answer to the question, but ERAS has nothing to do with the match, I think all programs nowadays use ERAS for residency applications. so the following doesn't follow on, I'm afraid.

Did not know that. That's ratchet right there. Then again if the right program wanted to sign me direct I might take it.

 

[drno31]

If you look on FREIDA there's a column that shows if the program intends to participate in the match this year. Bergen Regional's FREIDA page indicates that it does intend to participate in the match. That might change later. I'm pretty sure that Seton Hall last year started out as an all in program but transitioned to all out later on in the year.

On a separate note, I think for a program that is positioning itself to become more competitive, going all out could be a good idea. It gives the program the opportunity to get stronger candidates that might not have ranked that program as highly in the match, but would sign a contract if given the opportunity.

 

[shan564]

On a separate note, I think for a program that is positioning itself to become more competitive, going all out could be a good idea. It gives the program the opportunity to get stronger candidates that might not have ranked that program as highly in the match, but would sign a contract if given the opportunity.

I agree, if a program just wants to get better candidates. But by trying to pick them off before they have a chance to match at a place that they would have otherwise ranked higher, it's really doing an injustice to those candidates. They're desperate and they'll take anything they can get... but if they're good enough to be a "stronger candidate" as mentioned above, then they're probably good enough to match at a higher choice. By doing this, it's clear that the program is willing to sacrifice its residents' best interests. This is why the NRMP started the "all in" policy... pre-matches were just an opportunity for a program to take advantage of desperate IMGs who are actually very good otherwise.

 

[gibits]

I interviewed there as a 4th year. I think I was the only American there.... Not sure why but all the residents I talked to we're IMGs as well, mostly from India and Africa. I felt a bit out of place, which was weird since Bergan is a Asian heavy community (I'm an ABC FYI).

 

[Dharma]

I interviewed there as a 4th year. I think I was the only American there.... Not sure why but all the residents I talked to we're IMGs as well, mostly from India and Africa. I felt a bit out of place, which was weird since Bergan is a Asian heavy community (I'm an ABC FYI).

Not sure all of the SDN locals gonna know what an ABC is 😉 Rock on though! Definitely good eats up in those parts of NJ.

 

[whopper]

Not sure why but all the residents I talked to we're IMGs as well, mostly from India and Africa. I felt a bit out of place, which was weird since Bergan is a Asian heavy community

I knew an American-born resident in the program who told me there's certainly some interesting cultural dynamics going on there--not in a good way. Reason why I don't want to elaborate on this is because I don't want to start a flame war.

 

[gibits]

I generally have a pretty good impression of IMGs in general. Most of the med students I encountered of that varity were on par with natives medical knowledge wise. Many of them are really young though, it seems like they just graduated college (like age 21 to 23). I wonder if they have some accelerated program in there homeland?

 

[shan564]

I generally have a pretty good impression of IMGs in general. Most of the med students I encountered of that varity were on par with natives medical knowledge wise. Many of them are really young though, it seems like they just graduated college (like age 21 to 23). I wonder if they have some accelerated program in there homeland?

In most countries, med school is 5-6 years right out of high school. The average age of graduation in most of those countries is younger than the average age of med school matriculation in the US.

 

[whopper]

America is the only country I know of that has a post-college start with medschool with few exceptions.

The system, the way it is in other countries, you start medschool after high school. You end earlier but residency is longer, and when you graduate residency, you're not the equivalent of an attending. You're more like a chief resident--called a registrar (at least in the UK). As a registrar, you start making big bucks, but you still have to do testing and it's not as intense as residency. Kind of like being an attending that's lower than the consultants (the ones that spent a few years as a registrar), but you still have to do some tests.

 

[shan564]

The system, the way it is in other countries, you start medschool after high school. You end earlier but residency is longer, and when you graduate residency, you're not the equivalent of an attending. You're more like a chief resident--called a registrar (at least in the UK). As a registrar, you start making big bucks, but you still have to do testing and it's not as intense as residency. Kind of like being an attending that's lower than the consultants (the ones that spent a few years as a registrar), but you still have to do some tests.

That's just in the UK. And it's even more complicated than that... there are several levels of registrar, but the "resident" part is shorter. I'm not intimately familiar with the UK system, but in Australia (which is based on the UK), you're a general intern for one year, followed by 1-2 years of general "residency," during which time you try to do rotations in your specialty of interest so that you can build up your CV/recommendations for a good registrar spot... that is, unless you want to be a psychiatrist/GP/pathologist/other less competitive specialty, in which case you can get a registrar spot right out of internship. Then you're a junior registrar for (which is comparable to a senior resident in the US), then you're a senior registrar (which is comparable to a fellow). The precise system varies depending on your specialty.

 

[whopper]

The systems are not completely compatible. UK medstudent graduates aren't on the same level as American graduates, with their educations being less intense and with less upfront clinical hands-on. E.g. during their surgery rotations, they don't work the ungodly hours the US medstudents do. That's not a criticism against them because their system is different and IMHO some ways better, but IMHO a 4th year UK student who's educational intensity was much more moderate (and less insane) than a US student with 8+ post HS years of education (with an every growing number of graduate school and Ph.D. candidates getting MDs) often-times doesn't know as much.

Again, cause I know some medstudent from the UK will storm in here and start a pissing match with me, it's a different system. Medschool for them is slower but more humane, and they make up for it with more post medschool training. From experience, I've seen UK students catch up quite quickly if they enter a US residency.