Besides age, how else are non-trads different?

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TheLadyVanishes

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I guess every non-trad is different, but I would love to know your thoughts on this.

Are there demographic differences from traditional students? Most of the non-traditional students I read about are white, but maybe it's the small sample size that gets written about.

A lot of non-trads went through college majoring in bio or other sciences, but chose not to go into medical school - but why? Then of course there were non-trads who weren't interested in science at all during college, or who weren't interested in college at all. So how did we end up years later in the same shoes as the pre-meds that we weren't?

Wondering how these other differences affect the medical school application process, and the experience of medical school.
 
I am a distance education student. I don't believe that is terribly common for students aiming at med school. I don't have a choice though, we are a military family stationed overseas.

I may have less peer interaction and absolutely zero extracurricular activities offered due to my situation, but it does show self discipline and work ethic in my opinion that I can take an advanced level science course with an at home lab kit and ace it.

I love the little kits I have to buy, my computer desk turns into a mini lab :laugh:
 
I wrote a sticky about this; it's at the top of the forum. But in a nutshell, a nontrad is anyone who hasn't followed the traditional education path to med school. That includes but is not limited to older students returning to school. It's also self-identified; there is no official objective definition. Basically, if you consider yourself a nontrad, then you are one. Race is irrelevant for deciding whether someone is a nontrad. There are nontrads from a variety of racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, and sexual orientation backgrounds. We also come from a variety of professional, educational, and socioeconomic backgrounds, and our ages as pre-health students range from late teens to a few who are in their fifties.
 
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I got the impression this was less of a "definition" question.

While I think it's pretty clear that non-trads come in all types it would be interesting to note if different groups are more likely to pursue medical education at a later point than others. I can see some cultures placing more of an emphasis on families and that might lead to people deciding to start families first only to realize that they still really want to do medicine later down the road. Age seems to make it a little easier to buck convention in some ways.

I could see where gender could potentially follow that too, with women perhaps deciding later that they want to go for it now. On the flip side, I know quite a few guys who just seemed to take a bit longer to find their feet and get motivated to focus on school and careers. They were the high school slackers that people used to joke about saying they wouldn't amount to much, and they definitely turned around and proved people wrong.

Exposure to the profession is huge too. Where I'm from originally it seems like a lot of the med students are non-trads, almost a majority. I'm from a really small town big on things like farming and people just didn't go to medical school so some didn't even think of it until they had more exposure years later. Plus money was tight for a lot of the community so it didn't seem like a viable option to those of us who were interested. But a few of us are heading that direction now quite a few years later.

I doubt there's been any major study about this or anything.

It's quite possible that there are so many factor combinations like above that the non-trad demographic breakdown winds up pretty much like the trad breakdown aside from age.

😕
 
Other than age and anything derived from that, I haven't seen anything really differentiating me from my classmates.

That we're on the same path as others means there's something we all have in common.
 
Other than age and anything derived from that, I haven't seen anything really differentiating me from my classmates.

That we're on the same path as others means there's something we all have in common.

I think this is vital; yes age is a factor for most non-trads.

But things that come from age such as: being married, having had a 'real' job (not a student job), kids, experience paying bills & making life decisions, etc.
 
I think this is vital; yes age is a factor for most non-trads.

But things that come from age such as: being married, having had a 'real' job (not a student job), kids, experience paying bills & making life decisions, etc.

No kidding! I swear I've aged a good decade just owning my house.... :laugh:
 
\I'm from a really small town big on things like farming and people just didn't go to medical school so some didn't even think of it until they had more exposure years later. Plus money was tight for a lot of the community so it didn't seem like a viable option to those of us who were interested. But a few of us are heading that direction now quite a few years later.

Interesting - I grew up in a farming community too (pop 1400), and I'm the second in my graduating class to decide late in my 20s to go to med school. The small town had a second effect on me besides financial concerns - my high school didn't have a lot of extra-curriculars in sciences but had a ton in the arts/liberal arts. Also, the teachers that were inspirational/motivational in my high school were in the liberal arts, and that led me to an English/Poly Sci degree in college. I was my class valedictorian, so I could have gone in any direction after high school and been successful, but without a teacher motivating me to pursue sciences (and in a small town, there's still that mentality that science is a field for guys, not girls), I didn't feel that I had enough aptitude or natural ability for the sciences, even though when I was younger I wanted to be a doctor.


I think this is vital; yes age is a factor for most non-trads.

But things that come from age such as: being married, having had a 'real' job (not a student job), kids, experience paying bills & making life decisions, etc.

Life experience is huge!!! For those of you who are non-trad and haven't interviewed yet, talk up your life experience. It really does set you apart. My story: graduated college intending to be an English professor, started a master's program in English with a teaching assistantship, after one semester discovered I hated teaching, so left, got a job in marketing for a toy company, hated that too and always felt like I should be doing more, but it was an income, so kept at it until I was laid off in 2009. Nothing interested me job-wise at that point. I was sick of feeling like my intelligence was being wasted at a job where the only goal was to make the company more money - and when my husband asked what I would want to do if I could do anything, I said I'd go back to school to be a doctor. You want to talk about making an adult, life-altering decision - not only had I temporarily lost my job, but my husband and I were looking at going from two very comfortable incomes to one income, and making the choice to do so for 10+ years (3 years undergrad pre-med courses, 4 years med school, + residency). And from what I read from other non-trads, this is a pretty common decision that shows major dedication and determination. You better believe doctors/admissions committees understand the comfort of a paycheck, and understand what it means to give that up to pursue a new career.

No kidding! I swear I've aged a good decade just owning my house.... :laugh:

LOL - owning a house has been an education in itself!!!

All of that said, I wouldn't have done this any other way. If I had attempted to go to med school right out of college, I'm convinced I would have burned myself out by the end of year 1 - I was a super over-achiever and had ridiculous expectations for myself. With age comes a better understanding of what's important and how to balance priorities. You're gonna have to learn how to do it as a doctor anyway - you may as well have the understanding *before* you start med school. I think with age also comes a better understanding that even though this is what I feel called to do, that doesn't mean I'm going to love every minute of doing it. For me, being a non-trad brings a whole level of maturity and experience and self-awareness that will make me a better med student and a better doctor, and will make my classmates better doctors by sharing my experience with them.
 
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I think this is vital; yes age is a factor for most non-trads.

But things that come from age such as: being married, having had a 'real' job (not a student job), kids, experience paying bills & making life decisions, etc.

Yep. I won't be that much older than people who went straight through once I start med school - I'm 24 now, will do a postbac, and then start med school at age 28.

However, the life experience department is what I really feel separates me from the other students. I'm married, have paid my own bills since I was 18, paid my way through school, etc., and experiences like that have given me a completely different perspective on life than I would have if I went straight through school with my parents helping me pay for it.
 
+1
And not as starry eyed.

+1!!

Seriously - at my interview day, I sat there asking myself "WTH am I getting myself into?!" It's a weighty decision to make. Pretty sure the pipeliners interviewing with me were feeling mighty altruistic about the whole thing, while I was considering the reality of what the next 4 years will look ilke for me and my husband. When I mentioned what I was thinking to one of the other interviewees, she looked at me like I had 5 heads!! She was probably thinking "What do you mean? This is all going to be AWESOME!!!" Me...not so much thinking AWESOME...but more along the lines of, "This is going to be a TON of work, time, effort, and dedication, but damn rewarding in the long run." A marathon. Pretty sure most sane people don't consider running a marathon and think, "This is going to be AWESOME!" 😉
 
yep. I won't be that much older than people who went straight through once i start med school - i'm 24 now, will do a postbac, and then start med school at age 28.

However, the life experience department is what i really feel separates me from the other students. I'm married, have paid my own bills since i was 18, paid my way through school, etc., and experiences like that have given me a completely different perspective on life than i would have if i went straight through school with my parents helping me pay for it.

+1
 
Pretty sure most sane people don't consider running a marathon and think, "This is going to be AWESOME!" 😉
I've run two marathons, and running them was totally awesome. There's not much in the exercise realm that will give you more of a high than the feeling you get when you cross the finish line and they hand you your finisher's medal. Plus, you build up a lot of camaraderie with people when you're running together for several hours. That part is awesome too. I don't have the time right now, but it would also be awesome to train for another marathon some day. By now I'm almost a masters level runner (meaning over age 40). Then again, maybe I don't fall into the "sane" category, in which case you can feel free to ignore me. 😛

FWIW, there were many points in med school that were pretty darn awesome too. The first surgery I scrubbed in for is a prime example.
 
There's not much in the exercise realm that will give you more of a high than the feeling you get when you cross the finish line and they hand you your finisher's medal.

"If god created the marathon to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise." (someday goal)

Then again, maybe I don't fall into the "sane" category, in which case you can feel free to ignore me. 😛

um 🙄
(looks at Q's CV)

.......🤣
 
I've run two marathons, and running them was totally awesome. There's not much in the exercise realm that will give you more of a high than the feeling you get when you cross the finish line and they hand you your finisher's medal. Plus, you build up a lot of camaraderie with people when you're running together for several hours. That part is awesome too. I don't have the time right now, but it would also be awesome to train for another marathon some day. By now I'm almost a masters level runner (meaning over age 40). Then again, maybe I don't fall into the "sane" category, in which case you can feel free to ignore me. 😛

FWIW, there were many points in med school that were pretty darn awesome too. The first surgery I scrubbed in for is a prime example.

*LIKE. Quite a high. Did Chicago two weekends back. I enjoyed every bit of that race. Take your time, take it all in, and enjoy the rush at the end. For me I think the beer in the finishers chute was better than the medal. Not my fastest but my favorite so far. Thinking about doing an ultramarathon in early november 🙂

Surgery sounds pretty damn cool too.
 
I've run two marathons, and running them was totally awesome. There's not much in the exercise realm that will give you more of a high than the feeling you get when you cross the finish line and they hand you your finisher's medal. Plus, you build up a lot of camaraderie with people when you're running together for several hours. That part is awesome too. I don't have the time right now, but it would also be awesome to train for another marathon some day. By now I'm almost a masters level runner (meaning over age 40). Then again, maybe I don't fall into the "sane" category, in which case you can feel free to ignore me. 😛

FWIW, there were many points in med school that were pretty darn awesome too. The first surgery I scrubbed in for is a prime example.

Yeah...you're just not sane. 😉 No, seriously, I have a friend who is a marathoner, has run an ultra, and she thinks they're awesome too. And I'm sure if I could ever gather up the nerve to train for one, I'd probably understand the high you're talking about. But I really don't think I'd feel like every day of training was awesome. I just think that's realistic. That's my mentality going in to med school too - every day is not going to be totally awesome, but there will be a lot of days that *will* be awesome. I just have a less "shiny" outlook on the process than a lot of the other candidates I interviewed with, judging by their reaction to my "WTH am I getting myself into?" statement.
 
I am a distance education student. I don't believe that is terribly common for students aiming at med school. I don't have a choice though, we are a military family stationed overseas.

I may have less peer interaction and absolutely zero extracurricular activities offered due to my situation, but it does show self discipline and work ethic in my opinion that I can take an advanced level science course with an at home lab kit and ace it.

I love the little kits I have to buy, my computer desk turns into a mini lab :laugh:

Where/how are you taking sciences and labs?
I've heard New England has a school that does online labs, but it's mucho $$, plus a ton of work with shipping the materials.
 
Pretty sure most sane people don't consider running a marathon and think, "This is going to be AWESOME!" 😉


A half marathon was ok. Nice scenery, especially in WI.

Tough Mudder was a lil more my flavor.. until it came time to wash all the mud off.
 
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I'm old enough to appreciate 1) time alone without having to entertain anyone else 2) a comfy chair (my own) and 3) much better liquor than you usually overpay for in a smoky, crowded, noisy bar. Yes, I am a snob.
 
I've run two marathons, and running them was totally awesome. There's not much in the exercise realm that will give you more of a high than the feeling you get when you cross the finish line and they hand you your finisher's medal. Plus, you build up a lot of camaraderie with people when you're running together for several hours. That part is awesome too. I don't have the time right now, but it would also be awesome to train for another marathon some day. By now I'm almost a masters level runner (meaning over age 40). Then again, maybe I don't fall into the "sane" category, in which case you can feel free to ignore me. 😛

FWIW, there were many points in med school that were pretty darn awesome too. The first surgery I scrubbed in for is a prime example.

I finished my first 100 miler at the end of August. had done a few marathons before jumping into ultras a few years ago. The races are way more laid back (usually on trail rather than pavement) and the finishes are that much sweeter! I highly recommend them!

so how are non-trads different? similar theme as previously mentioned..... i guess we can also balance more dimensions of life at once. a student right out of undergrad only knows being a student..... a non-trad knows family, work, how to manage money (usually?), knowing that the world doesn't revolve around them and them alone.
 
so how are non-trads different? similar theme as previously mentioned..... i guess we can also balance more dimensions of life at once. a student right out of undergrad only knows being a student..... a non-trad knows family, work, how to manage money (usually?), knowing that the world doesn't revolve around them and them alone.

What do you mean? Of course the world revolves around me! 😛

I actually learned this the hard way. I didn't recover quickly enough after learning that I wasn't the smartest thing since sliced bread in college; I can sum up my undergraduate experience with "What? You want me to think?!" Now that I'm older (and broken), I can see that life is a game you have to play, or you lose.

And I think I know more unemployment than work. 😏
 
I find that my experiences as a graduate student (giving routine presentations/lectures, teaching, asking questions, journal clubs) has made all the difference at times.

A lot of the post-baccs in this program are essentially 5th year undergrads. Afraid to pipe up in class. Afraid to be wrong. Offended when someone asks a student a question after one gives a presentation on a topic. Afraid to say, "I don't know" because that would make them "look stupid." One TA froze during a lecture she was giving and ended up crying afterwards. Afraid of what others think of them.

Coming from an Asian household, I really don't subscribe to the whole "I pay my bills, therefore am an adult" mentality, particularly because I spent my high school days working to help support my family. I had a lot of my friends, who come from a different culture, sort of look down on me because I chose to live at home and commute in undergrad. Hey, you work at the pot club and party all the time these days. Good for you. I also dated a 30-year Asian man long ago who was living at home so he could save up for a house in the Bay Area and also help contribute to his family's bills. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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