quicknss

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I'm interested to see what the current opinion is on the 4yr programs in NYC:

-NYU/Bellevue
-Cornell/Columbia
-Jacobi
-Downstate
-Mount Siani
-LIJ
-Brooklyn
 
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Hamhock

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I'm interested to see what the current opinion is on the 4yr programs in NYC:

-NYU/Bellevue
-Cornell/Columbia
-Jacobi
-Downstate
-Mount Siani
Yes, you are missing a few other 4yr programs like Lincoln (well, is it 2-4?), but I think you first need to decide what your career goals are after residency in NYC and then decide what type of training/environment you are are looking for and how much trauma/critical care you want.

Jacobi and Downstate/Kings County are COMPLETELY different programs vs. Cornell/Columbia and Mt. Sinai...I have a huge opinion on what is best, but my opinion is only relevant after you decide on what TYPE of program you want [well, acutally, I am biased and I think the best program in NYC is already decided (but recently becoming debatable again)]

Either way, it doesn't matter until you decide what type of program/experience you want and what your career goals after residency are

HH
 
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NYC is a strange place where there are quite a few 4 yr programs and I was interested in NYC but at the same time only wanted 3 yr programs. It was a tough call but I'm glad I made it.

Yes I'm biased, but allow me to say: don't go to a 4 year program.

why? because

3yr + 1yr fellowship >>>> 4yr residency

No one will dispute that. It will be hard to find a 4th yr EM resdient to look you straight in the eyes and tell you otherwise. No matter what you want to do, academic, community, I can't imagine a place in their right minds would hire a 4yr residency grad over a fellow, especially knowing that a 4 yr program usually means a more scutwork filled intern year.

Yes I know most of the 4yr programs are quite prestegious, NYC or not. They are 4yrs because they know they can and people will eat it up. Unlike surgery/radiology, name goes very short especially in our small EM world. No matter how prestegious the 4yr program is, don't let them tell you that they give you "more training" thus it's better. If that's true, all programs would be 5 years. You'll end up regreting it if you believe the name or "more training" will help you in the long run.

DO PICK the 4yr program, if you like the location or have family near by, which is much more important in my opinion, or if you truly truly believe that particuarly 4 yr residency is >>>> than 3yr + fellowship.
 

met19

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NYC is a strange place where there are quite a few 4 yr programs and I was interested in NYC but at the same time only wanted 3 yr programs. It was a tough call but I'm glad I made it.

Yes I'm biased, but allow me to say: don't go to a 4 year program.

why? because

3yr + 1yr fellowship >>>> 4yr residency

No one will dispute that. It will be hard to find a 4th yr EM resdient to look you straight in the eyes and tell you otherwise. No matter what you want to do, academic, community, I can't imagine a place in their right minds would hire a 4yr residency grad over a fellow, especially knowing that a 4 yr program usually means a more scutwork filled intern year.

Yes I know most of the 4yr programs are quite prestegious, NYC or not. They are 4yrs because they know they can and people will eat it up. Unlike surgery/radiology, name goes very short especially in our small EM world. No matter how prestegious the 4yr program is, don't let them tell you that they give you "more training" thus it's better. If that's true, all programs would be 5 years. You'll end up regreting it if you believe the name or "more training" will help you in the long run.

DO PICK the 4yr program, if you like the location or have family near by, which is much more important in my opinion, or if you truly truly believe that particuarly 4 yr residency is >>>> than 3yr + fellowship.
just want to point something out in your post. no 4 year program that has a fellowship will hire a 3 yr grad for the fellow position unless they have attending experience first. they do not want their pgy-4 presenting to someone with the same level of experience.

but if you ask me. i like my 4 yr program. don't want a fellowship. like that I had more ed months, and had plenty of time for electives.
 

fiznat

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Just a lowly med school applicant, but the doctor I'm shadowing has already warned me several times about 4 year EM residency programs. Haha, he called them "the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar mistake."
 

met19

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Just a lowly med school applicant, but the doctor I'm shadowing has already warned me several times about 4 year EM residency programs. Haha, he called them "the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar mistake."
is 250,000 when you'll have that salary for 20 years really a big deal. my suggestion then is to go into community practice and really earn the big bucks 400,000.

you need to look at the program itself 3 vs 4, location, feel, etc. if you like a 3 yr program go for it. if you feel a 4 yr fits you better rank that one higher. my point is almost no 4 yr program will hire a 3 yr grad WITHOUT experience to be a fellow. how can that fellow talk to a pgy-4. they are essentially the same pgy level.
 

fiznat

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is 250,000 when you'll have that salary for 20 years really a big deal.
Or you could look at it the other way. $250k is a pretty big deal when you haven't had a real income for the past decade, and instead have been steadily building up massive amounts of debt.
 

met19

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Or you could look at it the other way. $250k is a pretty big deal when you haven't had a real income for the past decade, and instead have been steadily building up massive amounts of debt.
sounds like you figured out the right answer you for then 250,000 seems important to you.

like i said-no 4yr program will hire a 3 yr grad fresh out.

i didn't have to waste any elective time on more experiences in ems, u/s,tox, peds, admin, etc. i already had all of that built in at >1 month each time. i had 2 months of dedicated u/s experience (no clinical responsibility) plus u/s during regular shifts. spent 1 month at the tox center. and i still have 3 months of electives.

the 3 vs 4 yr program is a personal decision. there different ways to get to the end. we all get to the end.

you'll figure it out after you get to med school. concentrate on that first, residencies later.
 

fiznat

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you'll figure it out after you get to med school. concentrate on that first, residencies later.
heh, condescending much? I will be concerned about my own choices when the time comes around, but this is an internet forum and we're just sharing opinions here. Chill.
 

met19

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just giving some free advice. it does not make sense to consider residencies when you're pre-med. you go to med school and often will change what you want to do with your life.
 

alexmtr

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heh, condescending much? I will be concerned about my own choices when the time comes around, but this is an internet forum and we're just sharing opinions here. Chill.
If you are asking for an opinion from someone who's been there don't get defensive if you don't like what you are hearing. And from the prospective of someone who has been there – your 250K concern sound, well – immature (we all have lived on borrowed money for years). So hopefully (if you actually are still going into EM after going through med school), you’ll make your decision based on whatever program will make you the best physician you want/need to be first and foremost.
 

lawj

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If you are asking for an opinion from someone who's been there don't get defensive if you don't like what you are hearing. And from the prospective of someone who has been there – your 250K concern sound, well – immature (we all have lived on borrowed money for years). So hopefully (if you actually are still going into EM after going through med school), you’ll make your decision based on whatever program will make you the best physician you want/need to be first and foremost.
Well, the the 250K was what made me decide 3 over 4. I guess that makes me immature. That and my fascination with South Park. Oh well.
 

alexmtr

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Well, the the 250K was what made me decide 3 over 4. I guess that makes me immature. That and my fascination with South Park. Oh well.


The 'immature' part is deciding what's important to you in a residency before even starting medical school....
However, calling a brilliant social commentary that is South Park immature - is definitely immature! ;)
 
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quicknss

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Relax everyone. This post was really only about debating NYC schools in a FRIENDLY manner
 

jbar

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met19 said:
just want to point something out in your post. no 4 year program that has a fellowship will hire a 3 yr grad for the fellow position unless they have attending experience first. they do not want their pgy-4 presenting to someone with the same level of experience.
That isn't true. I know tox fellows at NYU (4 year) that went to 3 year residencies. Same for FDNY EMS fellowship where they attend at LIJ, and ultrasound fellows at Yale (also 4 years). While there are 4 year programs that prefer their fellows come from 4 year residencies, there are a number of people from 3 year places doing fellowship at 4 year spots.
 
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From what I've heard along the interview trail, most people who prefer 4 year programs would like to place on emphasis on research more thank the 3 year programs. when i compared the 3 and 4 year EM programs, it seems they have the same amount of ED time but 4 year has more elective time.
do others feel that this is the case also? 4 year=research/teasing out a potential fellowship vs. 3 year= more clinical based focus although still with potential for a fellowship?

NYC is a strange place where there are quite a few 4 yr programs and I was interested in NYC but at the same time only wanted 3 yr programs. It was a tough call but I'm glad I made it.

Yes I'm biased, but allow me to say: don't go to a 4 year program.

why? because

3yr + 1yr fellowship >>>> 4yr residency

No one will dispute that. It will be hard to find a 4th yr EM resdient to look you straight in the eyes and tell you otherwise. No matter what you want to do, academic, community, I can't imagine a place in their right minds would hire a 4yr residency grad over a fellow, especially knowing that a 4 yr program usually means a more scutwork filled intern year.

Yes I know most of the 4yr programs are quite prestegious, NYC or not. They are 4yrs because they know they can and people will eat it up. Unlike surgery/radiology, name goes very short especially in our small EM world. No matter how prestegious the 4yr program is, don't let them tell you that they give you "more training" thus it's better. If that's true, all programs would be 5 years. You'll end up regreting it if you believe the name or "more training" will help you in the long run.

DO PICK the 4yr program, if you like the location or have family near by, which is much more important in my opinion, or if you truly truly believe that particuarly 4 yr residency is >>>> than 3yr + fellowship.
 

met19

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That isn't true. I know tox fellows at NYU (4 year) that went to 3 year residencies. Same for FDNY EMS fellowship where they attend at LIJ, and ultrasound fellows at Yale (also 4 years). While there are 4 year programs that prefer their fellows come from 4 year residencies, there are a number of people from 3 year places doing fellowship at 4 year spots.
FDNY EMS is different. FDNY chooses the fellow not LIJ. for Yale U/s and Tox its few and far between for the 1-3's. less so for tox as there are alot of people looking for U/S vs fewer for tox.
 

tkim

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just want to point something out in your post. no 4 year program that has a fellowship will hire a 3 yr grad for the fellow position unless they have attending experience first. they do not want their pgy-4 presenting to someone with the same level of experience.

but if you ask me. i like my 4 yr program. don't want a fellowship. like that I had more ed months, and had plenty of time for electives.
How about the recent grad from Syracuse's 3 year going straight to the NYU tox fellowship with Goldfrank. Sounds like a 3 year going straight to fellowship in a 4 year shop, yes?
 

met19

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How about the recent grad from Syracuse's 3 year going straight to the NYU tox fellowship with Goldfrank. Sounds like a 3 year going straight to fellowship in a 4 year shop, yes?

sounds like you want to nitpick every tox fellow. see my above post. most are 4s. less are 3s.
 

Cerberus

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sounds like you figured out the right answer you for then 250,000 seems important to you.

like i said-no 4yr program will hire a 3 yr grad fresh out.

i didn't have to waste any elective time on more experiences in ems, u/s,tox, peds, admin, etc. i already had all of that built in at >1 month each time. i had 2 months of dedicated u/s experience (no clinical responsibility) plus u/s during regular shifts. spent 1 month at the tox center. and i still have 3 months of electives.

the 3 vs 4 yr program is a personal decision. there different ways to get to the end. we all get to the end.

you'll figure it out after you get to med school. concentrate on that first, residencies later.
I also have 2 dedicated U/S months, a tox month, EMS month, and additional elective time... at my 3 year program. I personally prefered the idea of doing 3+1 than 4 years of residency which makes me no more employable than a 3 yr grad.
 

tkim

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sounds like you want to nitpick every tox fellow. see my above post. most are 4s. less are 3s.
Not quite, you said "no 4 year program that has a fellowship will hire a 3 yr grad for the fellow position unless they have attending experience first." Obviously, you are wrong. I'm not the one doing the nitpicking. You've already weaseled by trying to differentiate between ultrasound and tox as if there's some difference in selection process. C'mon. STFU already.
 

lainy105

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can anyone comment on LIJ? good program? ok program?