Best ACGME matching DO school

[astr1x]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hey guys,

I was wondering which DO school has (historically) the best ACGME match list? Particularly for the more competitive programs (i.e. surgery, anesth, etc.)
As a Canadian, apparently I can only do ACGME residency programs, so I'm still deciding which school to attend.

My current options are KCUMB, MSUCOM, NSU, AZCOM (have acceptances/interviews for these)

Thanks in advanced for any advice! 🙂

 

[ksmajmudar]

Hey guys,

I was wondering which DO school has (historically) the best ACGME match list? Particularly for the more competitive programs (i.e. surgery, anesth, etc.)
As a Canadian, apparently I can only do ACGME residency programs, so I'm still deciding which school to attend.

My current options are KCUMB, MSUCOM, NSU, AZCOM (have acceptances/interviews for these)

Thanks in advanced for any advice! 🙂

I believe KCUMB does.

 

[cliquesh]

Hey guys,

I was wondering which DO school has (historically) the best ACGME match list? Particularly for the more competitive programs (i.e. surgery, anesth, etc.)
As a Canadian, apparently I can only do ACGME residency programs, so I'm still deciding which school to attend.

My current options are KCUMB, MSUCOM, NSU, AZCOM (have acceptances/interviews for these)

Thanks in advanced for any advice! 🙂

The DO schools with more people matching into ACGME programs generally do not have many AOA residencies associated with the school.

 

[astr1x]

I believe KCUMB does.

Thanks. that's the impression I have now, so I'm leaning towards KCUMB. but at the same time I'm reading that NSU has quite a good match list as well.

 

[astr1x]

The DO schools with more people matching into ACGME programs generally do not have many AOA residencies associated with the school.

And which schools would that be?

 

[Dharma]

These numbers will change year to year. Do not use such statistics as a decisive factor of which institution you will attend. Landing an ACGME residency is on your back and your back alone. Other factors should take precedence (e.g. location, rotations, the feel to the school, i.e. where you will most happy for a few years). Don't pick your school based on match lists.

 

[michow87]

these numbers will change year to year. Do not use such statistics as a decisive factor of which institution you will attend. Landing an acgme residency is on your back and your back alone. Other factors should take precedence (e.g. Location, rotations, the feel to the school, i.e. Where you will most happy for a few years). Don't pick your school based on match lists.

x2

 

[DocEspana]

These numbers will change year to year. Do not use such statistics as a decisive factor of which institution you will attend. Landing an ACGME residency is on your back and your back alone. Other factors should take precedence (e.g. location, rotations, the feel to the school, i.e. where you will most happy for a few years). Don't pick your school based on match lists.

That's what I'm gonna say. You want to match acgme, be a strong candidate. Everything else is just minor side noise. School match list vastly immensely year to year.

 

[slammer922]

Hey guys,

I was wondering which DO school has (historically) the best ACGME match list? Particularly for the more competitive programs (i.e. surgery, anesth, etc.)
As a Canadian, apparently I can only do ACGME residency programs, so I'm still deciding which school to attend.

My current options are KCUMB, MSUCOM, NSU, AZCOM (have acceptances/interviews for these)

Thanks in advanced for any advice! 🙂

Tcom

 

[Kuba]

I believe KCUMB does.

🙄 haha

 

[Optoed]

hi everyone, I have a related question.

Like OP, I'm Canadian as well, so I'm looking into ACGME rotations - FM or IM, nothing crazy.

I'm trying to choose between AZCOM (stronger board scores) and NSU (stronger rotation sites..from what I've heard). Would board scores OR rotation sites have a more deciding factor for residency directors?

 

[ziprasidone1]

hi everyone, I have a related question.

Like OP, I'm Canadian as well, so I'm looking into ACGME rotations - FM or IM, nothing crazy.

I'm trying to choose between AZCOM (stronger board scores) and NSU (stronger rotation sites..from what I've heard). Would board scores OR rotation sites have a more deciding factor for residency directors?

Focus on rotations. Board scores vary from class to class and it all depends on how hard you work. Rotations don't change that often. I think NSU has quite a few MD core hospitals that you rotate through so making connections during your clerkship will help you get an ACGME residency.

 

[aSagacious]

For what it's worth, MSUCOM went 30/36 in the allo match last year (and 36/42 the year before).

 

[drgioiadds]

Since the Canadian Initiative is an MSU project, I'd pick MSU based on the fact that they know we need to do an allopathic residency.

 

[Lewist02]

For what it's worth, MSUCOM went 30/36 in the allo match last year (and 36/42 the year before).

This. You have to focus on the percentage of students who applied Allo and were accepted Allo (Not just the percentage of students who went into an Allo residency) The percentage of students applying Allo vs Osteopathic varies year to year and school to school. I don't think anyone can say for sure which school would be best matching into an Allo residency, because it is mainly up to the student. And a match list won't be a great indicator of the ability of the school to match students into programs, because these also vary year to year depending on where students want to go and what programs they are interested in.

 

[astr1x]

For what it's worth, MSUCOM went 30/36 in the allo match last year (and 36/42 the year before).

Thanks for that! 30/36 is really good. I wonder why nobody match for surgery (which I'm aiming for) haha.

 

[astr1x]

This. You have to focus on the percentage of students who applied Allo and were accepted Allo (Not just the percentage of students who went into an Allo residency) The percentage of students applying Allo vs Osteopathic varies year to year and school to school. I don't think anyone can say for sure which school would be best matching into an Allo residency, because it is mainly up to the student. And a match list won't be a great indicator of the ability of the school to match students into programs, because these also vary year to year depending on where students want to go and what programs they are interested in.

You're totally right. I don't think all schools have those stats though. I agree ultimately it's up to me to get the good board scores, etc. to get the residency program I want.

I suppose I should change my question to which school has the best rotation sites since that will play a big role as well.

 

[seraphkz]

i'm terribly sorry to hijack your thread, it's ok if you guys don't answer my question, but here it goes:

Out of all the DO schools out there, which school puts more of its students in ACGME residencies?

 

[InTheMaking]

In my opinion you cannot group together all ACGME residencies. It is fairly easy for a DO to get into FM or IM. On the other hand when you talk about rads, gas you decrease your chances more. When you talk derm, gen surg, even further decrease your chances. Finally when you talk Ortho Surg, Neurosurg, Optho, it becomes much much much harder.

Your school will not matter in the end anyways... for the residency is not taking the school as a resident but they are taking YOU. Its on YOU to take the USMLE and do well and to do your damned to get research and get quality away rotations and quality letters of rec.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

i'm terribly sorry to hijack your thread, it's ok if you guys don't answer my question, but here it goes:

Out of all the DO schools out there, which school puts more of its students in ACGME residencies?

.... This is pretty much the OP's question...

I believe it's TCOM... But you'll probably not be apply there...

 

[rad0nc]

Hey guys,

I was wondering which DO school has (historically) the best ACGME match list? Particularly for the more competitive programs (i.e. surgery, anesth, etc.)
As a Canadian, apparently I can only do ACGME residency programs, so I'm still deciding which school to attend.

My current options are KCUMB, MSUCOM, NSU, AZCOM (have acceptances/interviews for these)

Thanks in advanced for any advice! 🙂

If you want to do an acgme residency, you should really consider strengthening your app and trying for an allopathic school. Your chances of matching from a bottom tier allopathic school are much greater than matching from a top tier DO school. Plus, a few specialties will be essentially off limits if you go the DO route. There is a thread in the ophtho forum if you are interested. Rad Onc is another that will be virtually impossible.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=828876

 

[seraphkz]

.... This is pretty much the OP's question...

I believe it's TCOM... But you'll probably not be apply there...

Thanks. I was asking out of all DO schools, not just the ones listed by OP

 

[Iliketoytles]

After seeing that somebody from DMU matched into cardiothoracic surgery at Southwestern in TX, I've become a pretty firm believer in the whole "You set your own path" idea.

Granted, this was only one person... but still.

 

[aSagacious]

I wonder why nobody match for surgery (which I'm aiming for) haha.

Good luck. Out of the 1100 categorical general surgery positions, 28 were matched to DO graduates. (p.5)

 

[Kate429]

Seraphk -

Which school puts more of it's students into ACGME residencies is actually not dependant on the success of their students. There are other factors. Some states will not grant a DO license unless the resident has completed a jointly accredited residency (AOA/ACGME residency), or done an osteopathic rotating internship year prior to a ACGME residency. Students planning to practice in those states are more likely to do the osteopathic match OR apply to dually accredited programs.

States with more dually accredited programs (which often only participate in the ACGME match) are also more likely to have more DO students apply (successfully) to ACGME residencies.

So the surroundings of the schools make a huge impact on those numbers. I'm a DO student and planning to apply to dually accredited programs, as I might want to practice in Md or Va (which are both states with the above mentioned requirement, and I don't want to have to do an extra year!). The Osteopathic match is before the ACGME match, so lots of osteopathic students participate in it first (for the (smaller) number of DO residency slots), and then participate in the ACGME match if they didn't match osteopathically. This might tend to put a higher proportion of the less outstanding students trying to match ACGME...which would throw off the numbers.

Opportunity for 4th year rotations at the residency sites you are interested in is probably the biggest way in which the school you attend can influence your chances in the ACGME match...and many school facilitate you doing 4th year rotations anywhere you want to. Residency directors tend to want residents they have seen before interview day.

Kate

 

[DrBowtie]

After seeing that somebody from DMU matched into cardiothoracic surgery at Southwestern in TX, I've become a pretty firm believer in the whole "You set your own path" idea.

Granted, this was only one person... but still.

Was this in 2011? There was a Thoracic Surgery match in San Antonio, TX.

That isn't UT Southwestern.

 

[Iliketoytles]

Was this in 2011? There was a Thoracic Surgery match in San Antonio, TX.

That isn't UT Southwestern.

Oh maybe I got my S's confused. I think it was like 2 years ago, or last year.

 

[astr1x]

Good luck. Out of the 1100 categorical general surgery positions, 28 were matched to DO graduates. (p.5)

haha ya. the odds are definitely against me. I'm definitely leaning towards KCUMB though, which had 5 general sugery matches for ACGME this year and 8 last year.

 

[astr1x]

If you want to do an acgme residency, you should really consider strengthening your app and trying for an allopathic school. Your chances of matching from a bottom tier allopathic school are much greater than matching from a top tier DO school. Plus, a few specialties will be essentially off limits if you go the DO route. There is a thread in the ophtho forum if you are interested. Rad Onc is another that will be virtually impossible.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=828876

Ya I'm also applying for allo. thanks for the link. it's my 2nd time applying for allo and first first for DO. not sure i want to apply again and waste all the money i've put into my DO app/interviews... we'll see!

 

[Optoed]

In my opinion you cannot group together all ACGME residencies. It is fairly easy for a DO to get into FM or IM. On the other hand when you talk about rads, gas you decrease your chances more. When you talk derm, gen surg, even further decrease your chances. Finally when you talk Ortho Surg, Neurosurg, Optho, it becomes much much much harder.

Your school will not matter in the end anyways... for the residency is not taking the school as a resident but they are taking YOU. Its on YOU to take the USMLE and do well and to do your damned to get research and get quality away rotations and quality letters of rec.

I was under the impression that general surgery is becoming more of primary care...maybe just in under-served areas.

 

[Dharma]

If you want to do an acgme residency, you should really consider strengthening your app and trying for an allopathic school. Your chances of matching from a bottom tier allopathic school are much greater than matching from a top tier DO school. Plus, a few specialties will be essentially off limits if you go the DO route. There is a thread in the ophtho forum if you are interested. Rad Onc is another that will be virtually impossible.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=828876

For starters, ACGME residencies are definitely within reach for D.O. grads. That said, the two specialities you mentioned just happen to be just as far out of reach for most, regardless of their credentials, i.e. they are essentially off-limits to M.D. grads as well, unless you are straight up rockstar.

 

[Dharma]

Good luck. Out of the 1100 categorical general surgery positions, 28 were matched to DO graduates. (p.5)

This is a bit misleading. Do the math. That means about 2.5% of those who matched were DO. DO's represent about 5% of practicing physicians, most of whom gravitate towards primary care, and still those who will shoot for a speciality (say surgery) via AOA residency (and if they applied both AOA and ACGME, they will have to take the AOA residency should they match). When you look at it that way, 28 out of 1100 is not too shabby.

Will you match ortho, derm, optho, or rads? Probably not. But guess what? Chances are you won't even if you go to an allo school. Sure, apply allo and give it your best to get in. But if you want to practice medicine, the D.O. route will provide many opportunities. Work hard.

 

[scotchtapetest]

i'm terribly sorry to hijack your thread, it's ok if you guys don't answer my question, but here it goes:

Out of all the DO schools out there, which school puts more of its students in ACGME residencies?

Based on last year's AOA match data the two schools with the highest AOA match SKIP rates were:

TCOM: 69.0% of all students ONLY ranked ACGME programs (i.e. skipped the AOA match)*.

UNECOM: 66.7% of all students ONLY ranked ACGME programs (i.e. skipped the AOA match)*.

*Includes the few graduating students from each school who did not seek postgraduate training last year (e.g. year off for personal reasons).

Other schools ranged from 20%-59% skipping the AOA match.

Also UNECOM (4.9%) had the lowest non-match rate among those who participated in the AOA match in the country.

I don't know much about TCOM, but at UNECOM we have an overall match rate of about 90% (+/- 2-3%), therefore, one can conclude with some degree of certainty that percentage-wise, UNECOM and probably TCOM have the highest ACGME match RATES among DO schools.

At least at UNECOM, this is partly because most students are from the New England area and would like to stay in that region but there are very few AOA spots in NE.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Good luck. Out of the 1100 categorical general surgery positions, 28 were matched to DO graduates. (p.5)

2.5% ACGME spots doesn't mean anything when you don't know how many DOs participated in the NRMP match when most people interested in surgery (based on my experience) apply to AOA AND ACGME programs and are withdrawn from ACGME programs when they match AOA.

Also, if you want ortho, derm, optho or rads, there are AOA programs that are ONLY open to DOs (N/A to Canadians who want to go back)!

 

[aSagacious]

This is a bit misleading. Do the math. That means about 2.5% of those who matched were DO. DO's represent about 5% of practicing physicians, most of whom gravitate towards primary care, and still those who will shoot for a speciality (say surgery) via AOA residency (and if they applied both AOA and ACGME, they will have to take the AOA residency should they match). When you look at it that way, 28 out of 1100 is not too shabby.

My point was not to say that there are no DO surgeons. I only meant to say that there are very few ACGME-trained DO surgeons (meaning the majority must therefore go through AOA training). Unfortunately I was unable to find the percentage of DO applicants who successfully matched into ACGME residencies (since the # of applicants was not disclosed). There are a million reasons why this could be the case (like you mentioned - successfully landing an AOA residency, or preference for PC specialties, or a low proportion of DO applicants, or because the sky is blue) but at the end of the day there just aren't that many DO graduates in ACGME programs. However you spin it, 28 spots in the nation is a very small number.

 

[scotchtapetest]

My point was not to say that there are no DO surgeons. I only meant to say that there are very few ACGME-trained DO surgeons (meaning the majority must therefore go through AOA training). Unfortunately I was unable to find the percentage of DO applicants who successfully matched into ACGME residencies (since the # of applicants was not disclosed). There are a million reasons why this could be the case (like you mentioned - successfully landing an AOA residency, or preference for PC specialties, or a low proportion of DO applicants, or because the sky is blue) but at the end of the day there just aren't that many DO graduates in ACGME programs. However you spin it, 28 spots in the nation is a very small number.

Nobody is spinning anything (this is not FOX news)!

What we are saying is that you can not conclude anything by throwing out random numbers. For instance in the same document that you cited it states that 22 out of 952 (2.3%) Transitional year spots went to DOs vs. 28 out of 1108 (2.5%) categorical surgery spots. So, following your logic, it is harder to match Transitional year than surgery for DOs. It is obviously not true!

The moral of the story is that you can NOT look at aggregate numbers when you don't know how many participated in the match to begin with! What I can tell you is that if you really want to do surgery as a DO you will get to do surgery at an AOA or an ACGME program. Also, although there are many great ACGME surgery programs, they are not all by default better than AOA programs. I know multiple AOA surgery programs that are far better than some ACGME programs!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Nobody is spinning anything (this is not FOX news)!

What we are saying is that you can not conclude anything by throwing out random numbers. For instance in the same document that you cited it states that 22 out of 952 (2.3%) Transitional year spots went to DOs vs. 28 out of 1108 (2.5%) categorical surgery spots. So, following your logic, it is harder to match Transitional year than surgery for DOs. It is obviously not true!

The moral of the story is that you can NOT look at aggregate numbers when you don't know how many participated in the match to begin with! What I can tell you is that if you really want to do surgery as a DO you will get to do surgery at an AOA or an ACGME program. Also, although there are many great ACGME surgery programs, they are not all by default better than AOA programs. I know multiple AOA surgery programs that are far better than some ACGME programs!

Can you tone down the defensiveness? I think he gets your point, but you should agree that of the ~4000 DO students v.s 16,000 MD students, only 25 matching is very low, since this amount is produced by about 2-3 MD schools on an off year. Does this mean it is impossible to match into gen surgery as a DO? No. But untill you can find the percent match for DOs into ACGME gen surgery then there really is nothing to argue about, on your or his side. You should also look up the number of DO's in AOA surgery and try to analyze from there.
That being said, this argument is fruitless as the OP cannot go into an AOA surgery position, good or not.

Also the argument that the number is low because more DO's go into PC is rather null since most MD schools match lists are usually over 50% primary care, albeit more might pursue fellowships.

 

[ksmajmudar]

I did mean to add in my previous post that while KCUMB's match list was probably one of the more impressive ones last year, as other people said, it varies from year to year, so it doesn't mean very much.

It's your own hard work that will get you into an ACGME residency, not the name of the school you went to.

(Also, I feel like an idiot given my previous post - I didn't really mean to suggest that KCUMB's students always match into ACGME better! D'oh 😳)

 

[rad0nc]

For starters, ACGME residencies are definitely within reach for D.O. grads. That said, the two specialities you mentioned just happen to be just as far out of reach for most, regardless of their credentials, i.e. they are essentially off-limits to M.D. grads as well, unless you are straight up rockstar.

Please stop spreading this type of mis-information. Try clicking on the thread I linked. An allopathic student with a 240 is pretty much a lock for ophtho, while an osteopathic student with a 260 will have an incredibly difficult time matching.

For rad onc 85% of allopathic students match. I have absolutely nothing against DO students, but I want to make sure the mis-information propagated by SDN pre-med students doesn't influence another student's decision.

 

[Everglide]

Thanks for that! 30/36 is really good. I wonder why nobody match for surgery (which I'm aiming for) haha.

Because it takes big balls to skip the DO match. Especially when there are a ton of surgery residencies (the majority of them?) affiliated directly through MSUCOM. AND then apply ACGME without a safety net since there is nothing left to scramble into if you don't match.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Please stop spreading this type of mis-information. Try clicking on the thread I linked. An allopathic student with a 240 is pretty much a lock for ophtho, while an osteopathic student with a 260 will have an incredibly difficult time matching.

For rad onc 85% of allopathic students match. I have absolutely nothing against DO students, but I want to make sure the mis-information propagated by SDN pre-med students doesn't influence another student's decision.

I think she was talking about the fact that most people who want mid level residency programs in things like Anes, IM, EM, etc. can match without a problem. That being said it's very obviously stated that surgical specialties aren't going to be easy to match into.
However that being said you're kinda making a 243 seem like an easy job that every MD student probably gets. While in reality the average student pretty much has a 227 and will go to a primary care residency.

 

[Everglide]

For rad onc 85% of allopathic students match.

Self-selection tends to do that.

Though I agree with your points and TBH I'm not sure why anyone would even go to a DO school without extenuating circumstances if you are dead-set on an ACGME residency of moderate+ competitiveness.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Self-selection tends to do that.

Though I agree with your points and TBH I'm not sure why anyone would even go to a DO school without extenuating circumstances if you are dead-set on an ACGME residency of moderate+ competitiveness.

Well since the OP is Canadian.... he pretty much needs like a 3.7/35 to get into most MD schools. DO is a lot easier for him to get into.

 

[rad0nc]

I think she was talking about the fact that most people who want mid level residency programs in things like Anes, IM, EM, etc. can match without a problem. That being said it's very obviously stated that surgical specialties aren't going to be easy to match into.
However that being said you're kinda making a 243 seem like an easy job that every MD student probably gets. While in reality the average student pretty much has a 227 and will go to a primary care residency.

I was going by her language of "rock star". A 240 shouldn't be considered a rock star by anyone's standards, it isn't even outside the standard deviation.

I don't want to argue semantics. I just hate it when pre meds argue that DO = MD during the match. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It isn't right, but that is just how it is. With the increasing number of MD students, and stagnant residency slots, this will most likely be even worse in the future. If you know you want to do an ACGME residency, I don't know why you would stack the deck against yourself like that.

 

[drctother]

Well since the OP is Canadian.... he pretty much needs like a 3.7/35 to get into most MD schools. DO is a lot easier for him to get into.

aint this the sad truth about my country

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

aint this the sad truth about my country

It's ok, you've got maple syrup. 😛

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I was going by her language of "rock star". A 240 shouldn't be considered a rock star by anyone's standards, it isn't even outside the standard deviation.

I don't want to argue semantics. I just hate it when pre meds argue that DO = MD during the match. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It isn't right, but that is just how it is. With the increasing number of MD students, and stagnant residency slots, this will most likely be even worse in the future. If you know you want to do an ACGME residency, I don't know why you would stack the deck against yourself like that.

Are you trying to same that the standard deviation on the USMLE step 1 is over 13 points? Obviously Pre-DO's do try to underemphasize the difference in the match, but the reality is that for everything outside of surgical specialties, derm, and radonc, DO's can match into most other specialties ease.

 

[Dissected]

Was this in 2011? There was a Thoracic Surgery match in San Antonio, TX.

That isn't UT Southwestern.

Yea, it was UTSA this year

http://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/COM-2011-residencies-by-specialty.pdf

 

[rad0nc]

Are you trying to same that the standard deviation on the USMLE step 1 is over 13 points? Obviously Pre-DO's do try to underemphasize the difference in the match, but the reality is that for everything outside of surgical specialties, derm, and radonc, DO's can match into most other specialties ease.

Last year the mean was 221 and the standard deviation was 24.

DO students can definitely match in acgme specialties. My point is that if you know you need to do an acgme residency it would be much easier to match from a allopathic school. With tuition going through the roof, I would hate for someone to rack up four years of debt to chase her dream of being a (insert your competitive specialty here) only to find out that an acgme residency is out of reach because of the osteopathic degree.

 

[Dissected]

My point is that if you know you need to do an acgme residency it would be much easier to match from a allopathic school.

Very true. If the OP already has acceptances to some DO schools though, it would be silly not to take them.

OP - Work hard and get respectable grades, board scores and evaluations and you will not have any trouble matching into an ACGME residency program, especially if it's primary care or EM. If you want to do surgery, you're gonna have to stand out. Around 25 DO's grab categorical ACGME spots at gen surg programs each year so it can be done, but it's not easy. There are only a handful of DO friendly programs out there in general surgery.

I was going by her language of "rock star". A 240 shouldn't be considered a rock star by anyone's standards, it isn't even outside the standard deviation.

Dude..240 is a really good score. You'll make just about every cut-off in every specialty at ACGME programs with a score like that.