Best course of action

[StarFall]

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Stats
s/cGPA: 3.3x
MCAT: 22 (7/5/10), 27 (11/6/10), 501 (127, 124, 125, 125 - Chem, Verbal, Bio, Psyc); Retook 27 because of 6 in verbal, 124 is an 8 equivalent
ECs:
- 3200-ish hrs research, name on 2 posters
- 75 hrs leadership positions on campus
- 70 hrs shadowing RadOnc and ENT (MDs)
- ~50 hrs medical volunteer (and continuing)
- 240 hrs non-medical volunteering
- Worked part-time throughout college career (~1000 hrs)
LORs: Committee letter with (2 sci, 1 non-sci, 2 research, 1 MD)
Currently: Working FT in research lab and volunteering (medical)

Schools
Applied: ACOM, ATSU-SOMA, CCOM, DMU, KCU, LECOM-E/SH, LECOM-B, MUCOM, NSU, NYIT, PCOM, PCOM-GA, Rowan, Touro CA, Touro NY, VCOM-CC, VCOM-VA, WesternU-COMP
Rejected: AZCOM, ATSU-KCOM, CUSOM, KCU, PNWU, TouroNV
II: ACOM
Silence from others and been complete since Oct-early Dec.

What to do?
1. If I don't get in this cycle, what's the best way to prepare for next cycle?
My thoughts would be to shadow a DO and apply on the first day.
Should I retake the MCAT or retake a couple of courses? I don't have many upper level sciences as I entered pre-med a bit late in my college career.
I will also be working FT-40hrs/wk and continue my medical volunteering.

2. Retake courses?
- If I retake Biochem (C+, 3 credits) and got an A or A-, sGPA would go from 3.3 to 3.42 or 3.4.
Doesn't seem like I can retake the biochem class, unless a different class code qualifies. Will have to call AACOMAS later and verify.
- If I retake Chem 2 (C, 2 credits) and got an A or A-, sGPA would go from 3.3 to 3.395 or 3.38.
- Retake both, sGPA goes from 3.3 to 3.48 if I got A- in both classes or 3.51 A's in both classes. I feel stronger in both bio and chem from MCAT studying and know/am confident that I can do better than a C. (Wish I knew what I knew now when I was taking these classes in the past!)
- If I took a new science class (A, 3 credits), sGPA would go from 3.3 to 3.35 or (A, 4 credits) 3.36.
- Have not taken: microbio, cell bio, anatomy, physiology, immuno.
- Seems like retaking Chem 2 and getting an A- or A is the best (3.3 to 3.38 or 3.95).

3. Retake MCAT in 2016?
- Take Apr 1/23 -> scores released May 3/24
- Take May 6/14/20 -> scores released June 7/14/21
- Take June 2/18 -> scores released July 6/19
- Working FT and volunteering, I feel as if I would be ready to take the MCAT in May.

4. I also got another MD/Shadowing LOR and was wondering if I should update the schools with this letter now or save it for next cycle.

Overall, I know that my study habits have changed since studying for the MCAT and I have matured even more since graduating college.
One thing that I am weary of is taking more classes as I am hesitant to take out private loans. My fed loans are about maxed right now (have 4k left). Qualifying for fed loans means entering school again as a degree-seeking student (meaning classes during the day, which I can't do if I work FT).
Retaking biochem and chem 2 would mean entering as a non-degree seeking student (evening classes). These 2 courses would be taken at a 4-year college, while a new science course would be taken at a 2-year/CC as a non-degree seeking student as well.
As the title suggests, what's my best course of action for next cycle?


TL;DR
Stats: 3.3 s/cGPA, 22, 27, 501 MCATs
EC: Decent, lots of research
LORs: Good to excellent
Currently: Working FT in a research lab, medical volunteering

Preparing to apply for next cycle, what's the best course of action?
Retake courses, retake MCAT, take a new course, or other?
Will be applying earlier next cycle and will find a DO to shadow.
Have a new MD/Shadowing LOR and was wondering if I should update schools now with it or wait until next cycle to use it.

 

[EggRolls]

Improve your MCAT score for sure. Currently, your 3rd MCAT roughly translates to a 25-26 (LizzyM score ~58-59) which is low and not an improvement from your last attempt. Even though you took the new MCAT, the admissions committee will probably still consider it as your "3rd attempt", so it is imperative that you get at least a 28-29+. Getting this MCAT score would also bring your LizzyM to ~61-62 which, to my observation, has been the score range where applicants with good ECs get some acceptances.

As a side note, I would recommend that you cut back on your full time research hours or eliminate medical volunteering entirely. Though these are nice perks to have in your application, having adequate time to study for the MCAT is much more important.

To answer your last question, there's no harm in updating your application with the MD LOR. However, I think it would have minimal effects in improving your chances for the remaining schools.

Good luck!

 

[AlteredScale]

You've hit your ceiling for the MCAT from going from 22->27->26 (equivalent). I wouldn't take it again. It's balanced.

I would work on your GPA. KCU has an avg matriculating GPA of around a 3.6-3.7.

Shadow a DO and take some extra courses to boost your GPA. Idk if an A in a course that you didn't receive a D or F in will replace it. So just take Cell bio etc etc the ones you haven't taken just yet.

Your EC's are perfectly fine IMO (strong research background) but maybe try and add a leadership experience if you can. Not that your hours are low it's just always nice to have that type of experience longitudinally through your career.

 

[darkeon]

To clarify a point in the post above, a retake grade would replace the first grade regardless of what grade it is, so yes you can retake your C grades

If money is a problem for you, I think u can go about not taking classes. I think the stall that's present with your app among schools is the tiny dip in mcat from try 2 to try 3. That and the lack of a DO letter. Your gpa and mcat together do not call for a strongly competitive applicant who can afford to not get a DO letter. I think a DO letter and continuing non medical volunteer would do you good ; better as a leadership experience (maybe drop the research to have time?). Dunno what to say a mcat retake...

Question to others : would op's research background get a him/her a look by certain md schools despite the lower then avg gpa and mcat numbers for md schools?

 

[OGLoc23]

Get those medical volunteering hours up. Aim for 100+.

 

[StarFall]

Improve your MCAT score for sure. Currently, your 3rd MCAT roughly translates to a 25-26 (LizzyM score ~58-59) which is low and not an improvement from your last attempt. Even though you took the new MCAT, the admissions committee will probably still consider it as your "3rd attempt", so it is imperative that you get at least a 28-29+. Getting this MCAT score would also bring your LizzyM to ~61-62 which, to my observation, has been the score range where applicants with good ECs get some acceptances.

As a side note, I would recommend that you cut back on your full time research hours or eliminate medical volunteering entirely. Though these are nice perks to have in your application, having adequate time to study for the MCAT is much more important.

To answer your last question, there's no harm in updating your application with the MD LOR. However, I think it would have minimal effects in improving your chances for the remaining schools.

Good luck!

+1 for the MCAT column.
Can't cut back on research hours, unless I quit. I tried studying while working which was hard as well. The latest mcat (501) shows that.
Not sure about this approach yet, but will have to wait and see what others think.
Agree with you on quitting volunteering to study for the MCAT. Working FT plus MCAT studying will take up all of my time.

You've hit your ceiling for the MCAT from going from 22->27->26 (equivalent). I wouldn't take it again. It's balanced.

I would work on your GPA. KCU has an avg matriculating GPA of around a 3.6-3.7.

Shadow a DO and take some extra courses to boost your GPA. Idk if an A in a course that you didn't receive a D or F in will replace it. So just take Cell bio etc etc the ones you haven't taken just yet.

Your EC's are perfectly fine IMO (strong research background) but maybe try and add a leadership experience if you can. Not that your hours are low it's just always nice to have that type of experience longitudinally through your career.

+1 for the Courses column.
Glad to hear I don't have to take the MCAT again, but will wait to see what others think.
As @darkeon pointed out, retaking means the most RECENT grade as long as the most recent take has the same number or greater number of credit hours.
For leadership experience, I feel fine with my leadership skills even though I may not have that many hours. I think gaining more clinical experience (hospital volunteering) would be better in my case. (See here) As for continuing the hospital volunteering if I were to take classes and continue working FT, I'm not sure I should. I'll have to answer that later once I get some more answers as to what my best options would be.
Do you think taking classes in the upcoming Fall and Spring semester would be too late if I were to apply the upcoming cycle? I would apply this upcoming May/June, update schools with course grade(s) in Dec, and then another update/send final transcripts in May. I'm assuming I'm retaking Biochem in the Fall and Gen Chem 2 in the Spring. I think it might be too late for me to sign up for the upcoming spring semester.

To clarify a point in the post above, a retake grade would replace the first grade regardless of what grade it is, so yes you can retake your C grades

If money is a problem for you, I think u can go about not taking classes. I think the stall that's present with your app among schools is the tiny dip in mcat from try 2 to try 3. That and the lack of a DO letter. Your gpa and mcat together do not call for a strongly competitive applicant who can afford to not get a DO letter. I think a DO letter and continuing non medical volunteer would do you good ; better as a leadership experience (maybe drop the research to have time?). Dunno what to say a mcat retake...

Question to others : would op's research background get a him/her a look by certain md schools despite the lower then avg gpa and mcat numbers for md schools?

Have to keep research as it's my FT job, unless I find another job with decent/equal pay (which I doubt). Maybe I could scribe?
I agree with the DO letter. Will have to get that ASAP.
I don't have a non-medical volunteering gig now. I'm volunteering in a hospital now to work on my clinical experience/medical volunteering hours. (Honestly, I love it, but wish I could do more. Stupid rules!)
I don't feel like I need more non-medical volunteering, and leadership experience will be hard to show continuity if I start now. What do you think though?
The only "leadership" experience I could show now is that I got promoted at work so I'm not longer on the bottom of the ladder at my job. Obviously, I can't list it separately, but can talk about it in the description/interviews.
Do you think I should get another non-med volunteering experience on top of my current FT research job and medical volunteering gig now?

As for your question, no. I sent out approx 20 MD apps and have gotten no love from in-state schools and nearby schools. My stats are way too subpar and I know that. I used FAP which is why I applied MD in the first place. Numbers get your foot in the door unfortunately.

Get those medical volunteering hours up. Aim for 100+.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping to stay with it until next cycle if possible, but if I take on classes or study for the MCAT, I'm not sure I could continue this.
Though, I might not be able to take courses in the upcoming spring semester, so I might volunteer until 100 hours or so and start class in the Fall.


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Can anyone tell me if I should try and use the new MD LOR for this cycle or save it for next? Not sure how much of a difference it would make now and I don't want to "waste" it for this cycle if it can be better used for next cycle.

 

[AlteredScale]

+1 for the Courses column.
Glad to hear I don't have to take the MCAT again, but will wait to see what others think.
As @darkeon pointed out, retaking means the most RECENT grade as long as the most recent take has the same number or greater number of credit hours.
For leadership experience, I feel fine with my leadership skills even though I may not have that many hours. I think gaining more clinical experience (hospital volunteering) would be better in my case. (See here) As for continuing the hospital volunteering if I were to take classes and continue working FT, I'm not sure I should. I'll have to answer that later once I get some more answers as to what my best options would be.
Do you think taking classes in the upcoming Fall and Spring semester would be too late if I were to apply the upcoming cycle? I would apply this upcoming May/June, update schools with course grade(s) in Dec, and then another update/send final transcripts in May. I'm assuming I'm retaking Biochem in the Fall and Gen Chem 2 in the Spring. I think it might be too late for me to sign up for the upcoming spring semester.

Hey if @Catalystik tells you otherwise. Listen to her wise and sound advice.

I don't think it'll be too late so as long as you first tell the schools you are In Progress with these courses right away so that they hold your to see if you get the grades.

@chizledfrmstone you think it's fine if OP applies early next cycle? ~26 MCAT but 3.3 planning on retaking some courses. Applying DO.

 

[StarFall]

Hey if @Catalystik tells you otherwise. Listen to her wise and sound advice.

I don't think it'll be too late so as long as you first tell the schools you are In Progress with these courses right away so that they hold your to see if you get the grades.

@chizledfrmstone you think it's fine if OP applies early next cycle? ~26 MCAT but 3.3 planning on retaking some courses. Applying DO.

Unfortunately, it wasn't directed at me, moreso general advice for someone else who seemed to be in a similar boat as me.

Wouldn't telling schools I'm taking classes mean that they're going to hold my app and review me until a later date? Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of submitting early (June 1st) or is it different?

@AlteredScale and @chizledfrmstone Thanks for your time and insight!

 

[AlteredScale]

Unfortunately, it wasn't directed at me, moreso general advice for someone else who seemed to be in a similar boat as me.

Wouldn't telling schools I'm taking classes mean that they're going to hold my app and review me until a later date? Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of submitting early (June 1st) or is it different?

@AlteredScale and @chizledfrmstone Thanks for your time and insight!

Well it's school dependent, getting an early app is always good and submitting late with a note saying "I'm also retaking classes" rushes admissions. So still submit and tell them you are about to retake. I just don't think it's smart to wait it out until november or december when you get your grades to apply. A lot of DO programs are filling up faster and faster.

 

[StarFall]

Well it's school dependent, getting an early app is always good and submitting late with a note saying "I'm also retaking classes" rushes admissions. So still submit and tell them you are about to retake. I just don't think it's smart to wait it out until november or december when you get your grades to apply. A lot of DO programs are filling up faster and faster.

True, better to have an app in and waiting on just coursework than to wait and submit everything later.
Do you think there is anything else I could do without having to retake any courses or the MCAT?
I know 3.3/26 equiv isn't that great, but I don't want to be in the same spot next cycle regardless if I applied day 1. I know a DO letter will help tremendously as well, but don't know if that alone can be a deciding factor.

@Goro could you provide some insight please? Thanks!

 

[OGLoc23]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping to stay with it until next cycle if possible, but if I take on classes or study for the MCAT, I'm not sure I could continue this.
Though, I might not be able to take courses in the upcoming spring semester, so I might volunteer until 100 hours or so and start class in the Fall.

I wouldn't recommend dropping your clinical volunteering activity unless you have some other experiences in a clinical setting. Adcoms want to see a background of clinical exposure.

If you feel you're stretched too thin and need to drop something to commit more time to your grades, I'd recommend divesting some time from your non-medical volunteering and research. Your hours for these are already great.

 

[Goro]

Your coursework isn't the problem.

The MCAT is the problem. Do you have test taking anxiety? If so, that's fixable.

Are you ESL?

Do NOT retake the MCAT unless you're doing well on diagnostics, and you're fully ready.

Contact the schools that rejected you and see if you can get some feedback on the rejections.
And yes, find a DO to shadow and get LOR.
Retake all F/D/C science coursework.

1. If I don't get in this cycle, what's the best way to prepare for next cycle?
My thoughts would be to shadow a DO and apply on the first day.
Should I retake the MCAT or retake a couple of courses? I don't have many upper level sciences as I entered pre-med a bit late in my college career.
I will also be working FT-40hrs/wk and continue my medical volunteering.

 

[StarFall]

I wouldn't recommend dropping your clinical volunteering activity unless you have some other experiences in a clinical setting. Adcoms want to see a background of clinical exposure.

If you feel you're stretched too thin and need to drop something to commit more time to your grades, I'd recommend divesting some time from your non-medical volunteering and research. Your hours for these are already great.

Thanks. I'm not actually doing any non-med volunteering now, just research and med volunteering.

 

[Dreamstoo]

I actually think the 3rd MCAT is fine despite being slightly lower than your 2nd attempt (more well balanced). I know someone who had a similar plateau with their MCAT scores (3+ attempts). Now they're a fourth year applying to a very competitive residency.

Improve your GPA if you can and up those medical volunteering hours. Aim for ~100-150 hrs more (at least).

 

[StarFall]

Your coursework isn't the problem.

The MCAT is the problem. Do you have test taking anxiety? If so, that's fixable.

Are you ESL?

Do NOT retake the MCAT unless you're doing well on diagnostics, and you're fully ready.

Contact the schools that rejected you and see if you can get some feedback on the rejections.
And yes, find a DO to shadow and get LOR.
Retake all F/D/C science coursework.

1. If I don't get in this cycle, what's the best way to prepare for next cycle?
My thoughts would be to shadow a DO and apply on the first day.
Should I retake the MCAT or retake a couple of courses? I don't have many upper level sciences as I entered pre-med a bit late in my college career.
I will also be working FT-40hrs/wk and continue my medical volunteering.

Thanks for the insight!
I believe I do have some test taking anxiety, but it seems to be more of a general anxiety. I will look more into overcoming and treating this.
No, I am not ESL. I've learned another language first and have lost it (can't speak, but can understand at intermediate level), but English is my primary/dominant language.
The verbal section just doesn't "click" with me, unless I read the passage 2x over or spend more time on it.

I will find a DO to shadow. As for coursework, I have a C in Microecon, C in Chem 2, and C+ in Biochem. No F/Ds.
Would retaking Biochem and Gen chem 2 be sufficient for a better app next year? If I get at least an A- in both courses, my sGPA will go from a 3.3 to 3.48.
Would this be my priority? Retake MCAT > Retake courses > DO letter > Continue med volunteer/research job?
Any chance without retaking the MCAT or retaking courses?

 

[StarFall]

I actually think the 3rd MCAT is fine despite being slightly lower than your 2nd attempt (more well balanced). I know someone who had a similar plateau with their MCAT scores (3+ attempts). Now they're a fourth year applying to a very competitive residency.

Improve your GPA if you can and up those medical volunteering hours. Aim for ~100-150 hrs more (at least).

I thought so too, especially being a test that's 2x longer than the older version. Although with Goro's insight, I'm not sure now.

 

[Prairiepalmeri]

How about kill your ACOM interview and matriculate!!! When is your II?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Goro]

These will help you with MCAT, and yes, I recommend retaking these.

Would retaking Biochem and Gen chem 2 be sufficient for a better app next year? If I get at least an A- in both courses, my sGPA will go from a 3.3 to 3.48.

This:
Would this be my priority? Retake MCAT > DO letter > Retake courses > Continue med volunteer/research job?

Your chances as of right now are fair. I'm surprised that you haven't had any IIs yet, especially from some of the newer school. The cycle ain't over yet, though.

Any chance without retaking the MCAT or retaking courses?[/QUOTE]

 

[StarFall]

How about kill your ACOM interview and matriculate!!! When is your II?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the optimism! I'll PM you.

 

[StarFall]

These will help you with MCAT, and yes, I recommend retaking these.

Would retaking Biochem and Gen chem 2 be sufficient for a better app next year? If I get at least an A- in both courses, my sGPA will go from a 3.3 to 3.48.

This:
Would this be my priority? Retake MCAT > DO letter > Retake courses > Continue med volunteer/research job?

Your chances as of right now are fair. I'm surprised that you haven't had any IIs yet, especially from some of the newer school. The cycle ain't over yet, though.

Any chance without retaking the MCAT or retaking courses?

MCAT would be for May/June 2016/Summer 2016. Courses would be for Fall 2017, I believe as I think I'm too late for Spring 2016.
I'm assuming this wouldn't change anything though since I could just update schools with my Fall '17 grades anyway to better my chances.

I'm dreading of retaking the MCAT again. I'll aim for a June date since registration opens Feb 2016 and I could hear back from ACOM or other schools before then. Saves me $115 in registering now for a May MCAT date.

I'm surprised too, but I think being complete around Oct-Dec is what's killing my chances for this cycle. I also have a pending interview for ACOM at the end of Jan.

Goro, I also have a new MD LOR from shadowing. Should I update schools with it now or use it for next cycle?


I would love to hear others' thoughts, especially those who don't think I need to retake the dreaded MCAT! 🙄
As of now, I think getting a DO letter, applying on day 1, and retaking Gen Chem 2 in Fall 2016 to raise sGPA from 3.3 to 3.38 or 3.4 (A- or A) while updating schools in Dec sounds most feasible to me.

 

[Goro]

If you already have a clinicianLOR, one more from an MD will nor add anything.

MCAT would be for May/June 2016/Summer 2016. Courses would be for Fall 2017, I believe as I think I'm too late for Spring 2016.
I'm assuming this wouldn't change anything though since I could just update schools with my Fall '17 grades anyway to better my chances.

I'm dreading of retaking the MCAT again. I'll aim for a June date since registration opens Feb 2016 and I could hear back from ACOM or other schools before then. Saves me $115 in registering now for a May MCAT date.

I'm surprised too, but I think being complete around Oct-Dec is what's killing my chances for this cycle. I also have a pending interview for ACOM at the end of Jan.

Goro, I also have a new MD LOR from shadowing. Should I update schools with it now or use it for next cycle?


I would love to hear others' thoughts, especially those who don't think I need to retake the dreaded MCAT! 🙄
As of now, I think getting a DO letter, applying on day 1, and retaking Gen Chem 2 in Fall 2016 to raise sGPA from 3.3 to 3.38 or 3.4 (A- or A) while updating schools in Dec sounds most feasible to me.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

My philosophy as an applicant is to always follow the path of least resistance and try to do things efficiently. Your stats are below average but they will get you in somewhere. Having said that, the brute force thing to do would be to play the stats game. At this point in the cycle you're going up against people with MCAT scores that are probably 10 points higher than yours on the old scale. Unfortunately your list is a little top heavy.

I encourage you to work on your GPA and MCAT but I'm sure you know that's a long term goal.

A strategy that will yield the most bang for your buck is to sit down and look at the programs you have applied to. They take applicants with high numbers but at the end of the day they also have a specific mission statement.

I had average stats but LECOM-B gave me an II 1 week after I submitted my secondary. They were really intrigued by what I had to say.

If your ACOM interview doesn't work out send me a PM and I can help you think of the process a little differently.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly you were an uncompetitive applicant, you applied late, you lacked a DO LOR and thus likely had a crappy story for why DO, and on top of it your list was almost entirely top tier DO schools.

My recommendation is to shadow a few DOs and understand the field well enough that you can express your interest in the distinct practice style and OMM if you do not get in this year.

Honestly I will never understand why weak applicants to DO schools literally avoid getting themselves arguably one of the easiest booms to their application, i.e a good LOR from a DO. You're not only shutting yourself out of multiple lower tier schools, but you're also making yourself a significantly more standard and plain applicant in the collection of low stat preMD converts.

So go get a DO LOR or two, apply to a lot more low tier DO schools, and be happy with what you get.

 

[Catalystik]

Stats
s/cGPA: 3.3x
MCAT: 22 (7/5/10), 27 (11/6/10), 501 (127, 124, 125, 125 - Chem, Verbal, Bio, Psyc); Retook 27 because of 6 in verbal, 124 is an 8 equivalent
ECs:
- ~50 hrs medical volunteer (and continuing)

What to do?
1. If I don't get in this cycle, what's the best way to prepare for next cycle?

You've hit your ceiling for the MCAT from going from 22->27->26 (equivalent). I wouldn't take it again. It's balanced.

I would work on your GPA.

I agree with both comments. Keep in mind that some DO (and MD) schools use superscores, namely they take your highest subscores and create a new total MCAT score for you, which in your case would be a 29 (provided DO schools you're targeting will create total scores that crossover from old to new scoring systems). Do the research to figure out which schools do this.

I agree that your priority should be to retake the C-grade chem classes for the same credit hours (CC classes would be fine, BTW and might be easier to get into for the spring term. Repeats need not be taken at the same school. Course content must be equivalent per the course catalogs, though course titles needn't be identical. If in doubt, call AACOMAS.). Is it possible you might take one over the summer?

Taking new coursework won't have nearly the impact that replacing those two C grades will. Earning As in new, upper-level science would be desirable, but I think you're too crunched for time for this to be easily doable.

Get those medical volunteering hours up. Aim for 100+.

Agreed. Your total active clinical experience being 50 or so hours is reason enough for any school not to consider your application. It is critical IMO that you boost these hours before a reapplication.

Also, get the DO letter. I agree with @Goro that another MD letter won't do anything for you. Your leadership is fine, your nonmedical volunteerism is very good, and your research is superb.

 

[StarFall]

My philosophy as an applicant is to always follow the path of least resistance and try to do things efficiently. Your stats are below average but they will get you in somewhere. Having said that, the brute force thing to do would be to play the stats game. At this point in the cycle you're going up against people with MCAT scores that are probably 10 points higher than yours on the old scale. Unfortunately your list is a little top heavy.

I encourage you to work on your GPA and MCAT but I'm sure you know that's a long term goal.

A strategy that will yield the most bang for your buck is to sit down and look at the programs you have applied to. They take applicants with high numbers but at the end of the day they also have a specific mission statement.

I had average stats but LECOM-B gave me an II 1 week after I submitted my secondary. They were really intrigued by what I had to say.

If your ACOM interview doesn't work out send me a PM and I can help you think of the process a little differently.

Yes, I am trying to "go with the flow" and to complete this as efficiently as possible.

I had an interview at CUSOM and really felt as if I matched with their mission and fit into the school.
CUSOM Mission statement for reference: "The MISSION of the Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine (CUSOM) is to educate and prepare community–based osteopathic physicians in a Christian environment to care for the rural and underserved populations in North Carolina, the Southeastern United States and the nation."
The only part that I had trouble conveying in my interview was portraying how/why I wanted to stay in NC when I wasn't from the area (home is 5 hours away). Also, I am not a fan of rural area, but am open to the idea. Having a diverse cultural community is an important aspect to me and my future. Regardless, I tried to convey that I was open to staying in NC and serving rural communities. I have no problem with underserved populations either.

I will let you know what the decision is after I hear back from my ACOM interview!
Thanks for your insight and help!

 

[StarFall]

Honestly you were an uncompetitive applicant, you applied late, you lacked a DO LOR and thus likely had a crappy story for why DO, and on top of it your list was almost entirely top tier DO schools.

My recommendation is to shadow a few DOs and understand the field well enough that you can express your interest in the distinct practice style and OMM if you do not get in this year.

Honestly I will never understand why weak applicants to DO schools literally avoid getting themselves arguably one of the easiest booms to their application, i.e a good LOR from a DO. You're not only shutting yourself out of multiple lower tier schools, but you're also making yourself a significantly more standard and plain applicant in the collection of low stat preMD converts.

So go get a DO LOR or two, apply to a lot more low tier DO schools, and be happy with what you get.

Looking back on it now, I realize the mistakes I made along the way. I also realize that nothing in my application, no matter how strong or competitive it may be in a certain area, can make up for those deficits.
As for my list of top tier schools, I was hoping my strong research background would at least help me have a chance, but I guess not. (Again, see previous sentence.)

On top of getting a DO LOR and shadowing a DO, I will work on my school list, although I don't see it changing that much. I may add a few lower tier schools, but I have a heavy preference for schools near/in urban environments. I have a deep appreciation and connection to cultural diversity, and hope to have that in a school. I also didn't research heavily into the lower tier schools and will have to look more into their rotation sites and see how long their electives/audition rotations are.
In your opinion, what are some lower tier schools?
Off the top of my head: KYCOM, LMU, LUCOM, UNECOM, VCOM-Auburn, WCU?
Personal opinions on schools:
LUCOM - Don't fit with their mission as much; know the stigma against the school
LMU - heard rotations were iffy in that they are subpar; read a post from a SDN user on here who has first hand experience
UNECOM - regional preference (Rowan and PNWU do as well, but I gave them a shot)
VCOM-Auburn - fighting ACOM for rotation sites; not sure of their clinical years
WCU - very rural I believe? Not sure about this school
KYCOM - Not sure; didn't research enough; heavy rural I believe
BCOM/RVU - Private, for-profit schools; disqualify because they don't qualify for federal loans (see IBR programs paired with PSLF - hope that cap isn't true!)
TCOM/OSU/OUH/MSU - heavy instate bias; MSU high tuition albeit I might swallow it next cycle (if I get in in the first place)
WVUCOM - rural emphasis but solid rotations; will add next cycle
WesternU-NW - didn't research enough; rural I believe; also WWAMI bias?; added COMP campus since it wasn't as rural as NW campus though
That left me with literally, all of the other schools that I applied to, I believe.

Would love your input/feedback on schools and school list.
Thanks!

 

[StarFall]

I agree with both comments. Keep in mind that some DO (and MD) schools use superscores, namely they take your highest subscores and create a new total MCAT score for you, which in your case would be a 29 (provided DO schools you're targeting will create total scores that crossover from old to new scoring systems). Do the research to figure out which schools do this.

I agree that your priority should be to retake the C-grade chem classes for the same credit hours (CC classes would be fine, BTW and might be easier to get into for the spring term. Repeats need not be taken at the same school. Course content must be equivalent per the course catalogs, though course titles needn't be identical. If in doubt, call AACOMAS.). Is it possible you might take one over the summer?

Taking new coursework won't have nearly the impact that replacing those two C grades will. Earning As in new, upper-level science would be desirable, but I think you're too crunched for time for this to be easily doable.
Agreed. Your total active clinical experience being 50 or so hours is reason enough for any school not to consider your application. It is critical IMO that you boost these hours before a reapplication.

Also, get the DO letter. I agree with @Goro that another MD letter won't do anything for you. Your leadership is fine, your nonmedical volunteerism is very good, and your research is superb.

DO letter will be my first priority since I can tackle that now. If I were to obtain a DO LOR for this cycle, would sending it to schools for this cycle help or no? I know it's a time issue, in that it depends on when I get/if I get one in time.

I know there is a list of some schools, I believe from 2013. I will call the schools and formulate that information ASAP. I do know that I may have a potential 29, but I'm not sure how my MCAT track record (3x) will fair in that decision. Also agree with you in that the old and the new may not be comparable, despite having a decent verbal score. Will have to ask the schools that as well. Thanks for the idea. I'm glad I can tally one more for the "not retaking MCAT" column for now..

I will have to look further more into a CC and retaking courses (contacting AACOMAS on this) for possibly the summer term. I looked at my alma mater and saw that they only had summer classes in the morning, which conflicts with my current FT job. However, I may find a new job with flexible hours if this route is most feasible.

I will continue my medical volunteering experience. I agree with this notion as well due to my lack of clinical experience.
Thank you for your time and insight!

 

[Catalystik]

DO letter will be my first priority since I can tackle that now. If I were to obtain a DO LOR for this cycle, would sending it to schools for this cycle help or no? I know it's a time issue, in that it depends on when I get/if I get one in time.

If you get one in, I do think it could help for this cycle, but you'd need to act quickly. I've noticed that a "DO Letter" doesn't necessarily mean a shadowing letter. Some have posted that they had a conversation by phone with a DO and acquired a letter that basically says they understand the DO philosophy, differences between allo- and osteopathic medicine, and that the letter writer supports their candidacy. And that seemed adequate. I can't comment on how widespread this approach might be, but as getting a decent shadowing letter would be time consuming, you might research this possibility. @Goro for an opinion, if he has one.

 

[AlteredScale]

If you get one in, I do think it could help for this cycle, but you'd need to act quickly. I've noticed that a "DO Letter" doesn't necessarily mean a shadowing letter. Some have posted that they had a conversation by phone with a DO and acquired a letter that basically says they understand the DO philosophy, differences between allo- and osteopathic medicine, and that the letter writer supports their candidacy. And that seemed adequate. I can't comment on how widespread this approach might be, but as getting a decent shadowing letter would be time consuming, you might research this possibility. @Goro for an opinion, if he has one.

Very true. I shadowed for 5 hours with a DO and he asked me "so when do you want the lot". He knew the drill.

There's very little substance to an LOR like this but it's just a reassurance that you've actually seen a DO in practice.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Looking back on it now, I realize the mistakes I made along the way. I also realize that nothing in my application, no matter how strong or competitive it may be in a certain area, can make up for those deficits.
As for my list of top tier schools, I was hoping my strong research background would at least help me have a chance, but I guess not. (Again, see previous sentence.)

On top of getting a DO LOR and shadowing a DO, I will work on my school list, although I don't see it changing that much. I may add a few lower tier schools, but I have a heavy preference for schools near/in urban environments. I have a deep appreciation and connection to cultural diversity, and hope to have that in a school. I also didn't research heavily into the lower tier schools and will have to look more into their rotation sites and see how long their electives/audition rotations are.
In your opinion, what are some lower tier schools?
Off the top of my head: KYCOM, LMU, LUCOM, UNECOM, VCOM-Auburn, WCU?
Personal opinions on schools:
LUCOM - Don't fit with their mission as much; know the stigma against the school
LMU - heard rotations were iffy in that they are subpar; read a post from a SDN user on here who has first hand experience
UNECOM - regional preference (Rowan and PNWU do as well, but I gave them a shot)
VCOM-Auburn - fighting ACOM for rotation sites; not sure of their clinical years
WCU - very rural I believe? Not sure about this school
KYCOM - Not sure; didn't research enough; heavy rural I believe
BCOM/RVU - Private, for-profit schools; disqualify because they don't qualify for federal loans (see IBR programs paired with PSLF - hope that cap isn't true!)
TCOM/OSU/OUH/MSU - heavy instate bias; MSU high tuition albeit I might swallow it next cycle (if I get in in the first place)
WVUCOM - rural emphasis but solid rotations; will add next cycle
WesternU-NW - didn't research enough; rural I believe; also WWAMI bias?; added COMP campus since it wasn't as rural as NW campus though
That left me with literally, all of the other schools that I applied to, I believe.

Would love your input/feedback on schools and school list.
Thanks!

Let me reiterate. You're not in a position to be picky. If you get into a better school, great, but next round you should be applying to a lot more lower tier schools and yes, LMU should be on your list because they may give you your one chance to be a doctor.

Next year add WVSOM, PNWU, LMU, RVU ( it does qualify for federal loans last I checked), and pretty much any other school you can tolerate tbh

 

[darknecrosforte]

Honestly you were an uncompetitive applicant, you applied late, you lacked a DO LOR and thus likely had a crappy story for why DO, and on top of it your list was almost entirely top tier DO schools.

My recommendation is to shadow a few DOs and understand the field well enough that you can express your interest in the distinct practice style and OMM if you do not get in this year.

So go get a DO LOR or two, apply to a lot more low tier DO schools, and be happy with what you get.

This^

Many DO schools will allow you to shadow their 3rd year students' OMM rotations. THIS saved my ass. You not only get to see OMM used for most of the time shadowing, but you get to see how the physician teaches it to the students and where they mess up.

The 124 on the CARS likely screened OP out of the crazy good schools like PCOM. I'm pretty sure Western U, Pomona would have offered an interview if there was a strong PS, secondary, and a DO letter. As far as I know, your stats get you the II if you have a minimal amount of ECs (which you exceed, so that's good). If you had a 500, but 125 in every section, I bet you would be sitting on several II's. It sucks, but if you can't retake, you better start getting into creative writing to become more compelling. And of course, get a DO letter, preferably one who demonstrated OMM in practice.

 

[IslandStyle808]

All accredited schools qualify for federal loans, this includes RVU. It will take BCOM another 2 years to get federal loans.

 

[Howlin_Radio]

124 is a 7. Also consider 501 should be worse than a 27. Get a GPA and MCAT list for each school. Apply to all new schools and throw in a ton of schools that are closer to 25 MCAT avg (WVSOM and pikesville for example).

Also I got a 124 and got accepted to PCOM-Ga and KCOM(same mcat stats and guidelines as Pcom) but 504 overall and very high cGPA and sGPA by comparison.

Apply to rural schools or have a high risk of no acceptances. Rural schools often provide non-rural clerkship rotations in addition to rural ones. Also plan on spending a lot applying to schools. Your list should be very broad. Be sure to get a DO LOR. I met a DO and got a LOR without shadowing. You can always ask a DO to meet for coffee, etc, bring your transcript, LORs, etc.. And ask if he/she would write a positive LOR. I'm an EMT and I got connections that way.

 

[StarFall]

If you get one in, I do think it could help for this cycle, but you'd need to act quickly. I've noticed that a "DO Letter" doesn't necessarily mean a shadowing letter. Some have posted that they had a conversation by phone with a DO and acquired a letter that basically says they understand the DO philosophy, differences between allo- and osteopathic medicine, and that the letter writer supports their candidacy. And that seemed adequate. I can't comment on how widespread this approach might be, but as getting a decent shadowing letter would be time consuming, you might research this possibility. @Goro for an opinion, if he has one.

Very true. I shadowed for 5 hours with a DO and he asked me "so when do you want the lot". He knew the drill.

There's very little substance to an LOR like this but it's just a reassurance that you've actually seen a DO in practice.

I did not know that that type of "DO Letter" could qualify, which is great. I did speak with my PCP who is a DO about osteopathic medicine and mentioned this in some of my secondaries when asked, why DO or why osteopathic medicine. @Goro what do you think of this approach?
Although, I do think shadowing is the most effective and I see no reason why I can't shadow AND get a LOR. In my case, it would probably be best to maximize my chances with this route, rather than the getting a DO letter without shadowing. Nonetheless, it's nice to know that this may be an option if shadowing isn't possible due to HIPAA/other reasons.
Working to find a DO to shadow ASAP.
Thanks for the info!

 

[StarFall]

Let me reiterate. You're not in a position to be picky. If you get into a better school, great, but next round you should be applying to a lot more lower tier schools and yes, LMU should be on your list because they may give you your one chance to be a doctor.

Next year add WVSOM, PNWU, LMU, RVU ( it does qualify for federal loans last I checked), and pretty much any other school you can tolerate tbh

I wish it were that way! Albeit, I do see how I was being a bit too hopeful/optimistic. Thanks for the reality check.
I will add those schools and I obviously have some more researching to do.
FYI, I did add PNWU and was rejected post secondary, most likely because I was OOS/OOR. I'm on the opposite coast. I do think that there were other factors in that decision, but I was confused by this school since my notes tell me that PNWU screens heavily. Seems like I got lucky and made it through the cracks somehow.

This^

Many DO schools will allow you to shadow their 3rd year students' OMM rotations. THIS saved my ass. You not only get to see OMM used for most of the time shadowing, but you get to see how the physician teaches it to the students and where they mess up.

The 124 on the CARS likely screened OP out of the crazy good schools like PCOM. I'm pretty sure Western U, Pomona would have offered an interview if there was a strong PS, secondary, and a DO letter. As far as I know, your stats get you the II if you have a minimal amount of ECs (which you exceed, so that's good). If you had a 500, but 125 in every section, I bet you would be sitting on several II's. It sucks, but if you can't retake, you better start getting into creative writing to become more compelling. And of course, get a DO letter, preferably one who demonstrated OMM in practice.

This is awesome info. Although there are no DO schools near me, I don't have a problem with taking a flight/some time off from work to shadow students. I'm sure there are some hoops to jump through though, but it's still nice to hear that this is a possibility.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to double check my PS and get some pair of eyes on it for next cycle and am working on a DO letter.

 

[StarFall]

All accredited schools qualify for federal loans, this includes RVU. It will take BCOM another 2 years to get federal loans.

I'm not sure why I thought RVU didn't qualify, but what's done is done. I may have thought this was the case since I believe any school under provisional status may not qualify for federal loans until they become fully accredited. Since RVU is now accredited and has been, it seems like this has changed.

Does anyone know how for-profit schools are looked upon though? Do they carry any weight in PD's decisions for residency and/or do they affect the quality of rotations/clinical years? I know word on the street is that RVU has solid match lists, but was wondering if there are any red or yellow flags that are associated with a for-profit status.

 

[StarFall]

124 is a 7. Also consider 501 should be worse than a 27. Get a GPA and MCAT list for each school. Apply to all new schools and throw in a ton of schools that are closer to 25 MCAT avg (WVSOM and pikesville for example).

Also I got a 124 and got accepted to PCOM-Ga and KCOM(same mcat stats and guidelines as Pcom) but 504 overall and very high cGPA and sGPA by comparison.

Apply to rural schools or have a high risk of no acceptances. Rural schools often provide non-rural clerkship rotations in addition to rural ones. Also plan on spending a lot applying to schools. Your list should be very broad. Be sure to get a DO LOR. I met a DO and got a LOR without shadowing. You can always ask a DO to meet for coffee, etc, bring your transcript, LORs, etc.. And ask if he/she would write a positive LOR. I'm an EMT and I got connections that way.

How did you come to that a 124 is a 7?
My sources, link 1 and link 2 tell me otherwise. A 7 is at the 37th percentile, while anything above a 37 and equal to or below a 52nd percentile is an 8.

Here are the most recent figures. Aacom site has IS/OOS percentages.

Touro-Ca: 3.50/3.45/30.8 (2015)
CCOM: 3.64/3.57/29.4 (2015)
KCUMB: 3.68/3.63/29 (2015)
AZCOM: 3.48/3.44/29
RVU: 3.63/3.60/28.54 (2015)
DMU: 3.63/3.57/28.3
UNTHSC-TCOM: 3.67/3.57/28 (2015)
MSU: 3.64/28 (2015)
NYIT: 3.6/28
COMP: 3.58/3.56/28
UNECOM: 3.55/28
RowanSOM: 3.54/3.48/28
LECOM-B: 3.53/3.45/28
Touro-NV: 3.5/3.4/28
NSU: 3.49/3.40/28 (2013)
Marian: 3.62/3.56/27.53 (2015)
PCOM: 3.5/3.4/27.47
OU-HCOM: 3.64/3.58/27.37
PNWU: 3.46/3.37/27.29 (2015)
CUSOM: 3.6/3.5/27
KCOM: 3.59/3.51/27
LECOM-E/SH: 3.48/3.35/27 (2013)
SOMA: 3.45/3.34/27
COMP-NW: 3.63/3.58/26.28
OSU-COM: 3.66/26
WCU: 3.5/3.4/26 (2013)
ACOM: 3.4/26 (2013)
VCOM (all): 3.6/3.5/25.36
LMU: 3.43/3.35/25-26
WVSOM: 3.4/3.4/25 (2013)
KYCOM: 3.50/3.41/24.6
LUCOM: 3.4/24
Touro-NY: ?
PCOM Ga: ?
Burrell COM: ?

Here is a list I could find by user3, FYI.

I was able to speak to a DO about the profession/field but didn't think that I could ask for a LOR based on that alone. Glad to hear it is an option though.
I will add more schools next cycle.
Thanks for the info!

 

[StarFall]

I believe my best course of action is DO LOR (shadow a DO, shadow 3rd/4th year students, meet with a DO), apply on day 1, add more lower tier schools, continue medical volunteering experience, save MD LOR for next cycle, possibly retake MCAT, possibly retake courses while working PT, continue current FT job.

Timeline
Jan: ACOM interview, get a DO LOR, potentially retake classes for spring semester
Feb:MCAT registration opens for June dates; register for MCAT if ACOM rejects me
Feb-June: study for MCAT or taking retake class, submit application for next cycle, take June MCAT
July-Aug: potential summer classes/retaking, potentially working PT
Aug-Dec: potential fall classes/retaking, potentially working PT, update schools with Fall transcript/grades (Dec)

 

[mathnerd88]

I believe my best course of action is DO LOR (shadow a DO, shadow 3rd/4th year students, meet with a DO), apply on day 1, add more lower tier schools, continue medical volunteering experience, save MD LOR for next cycle, possibly retake MCAT, possibly retake courses while working PT, continue current FT job.

Timeline
Jan: ACOM interview, get a DO LOR, potentially retake classes for spring semester
Feb:MCAT registration opens for June dates; register for MCAT if ACOM rejects me
Feb-June: study for MCAT or taking retake class, submit application for next cycle, take June MCAT
July-Aug: potential summer classes/retaking, potentially working PT
Aug-Dec: potential fall classes/retaking, potentially working PT, update schools with Fall transcript/grades (Dec)

Don't retake the MCAT. You've already taken it 3 times. Focus on improving your GPA. Also, apply with the highest GPA possible. Don't try to do "update" schools with Fall transcript/grades, because that would be too late. If you can get your GPA to a 3.5 before applying, that would best suit you.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Don't retake the MCAT. You've already taken it 3 times. Focus on improving your GPA. Also, apply with the highest GPA possible. Don't try to do "update" schools with Fall transcript/grades, because that would be too late. If you can get your GPA to a 3.5 before applying, that would best suit you.

Agreed with all of this. Good post 👍

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm not sure why I thought RVU didn't qualify, but what's done is done. I may have thought this was the case since I believe any school under provisional status may not qualify for federal loans until they become fully accredited. Since RVU is now accredited and has been, it seems like this has changed.

Does anyone know how for-profit schools are looked upon though? Do they carry any weight in PD's decisions for residency and/or do they affect the quality of rotations/clinical years? I know word on the street is that RVU has solid match lists, but was wondering if there are any red or yellow flags that are associated with a for-profit status.

RVU is fully accredited because it has already graduated its first class in 2012, once a stand alone school has graduated a class it qualifies for federal loans. There are also a lot of schools under provisional accreditation that qualify for loans, this is because either they are a branch campus or under another university that has graduated students. Examples I can think of off the top of my head MUCOM, CUSOM, VCOM-auburn etc.

As for how for-profit schools are looked at, it depends on the PD. A large chuck of PDs don't even know anything about DO schools and could over see the whole for-profit status of a school (someone could correct on this point). However, RVU has had some pretty good matches. For instance, the one I keep on bring up the internal medicine match at UW (which is a solid mid-tier program). So I believe you would fine at a for profit schools and could even be receiving a better education than at certain other non-profit schools.

 

[Howlin_Radio]

How did you come to that a 124 is a 7?
My sources, link 1 and link 2 tell me otherwise. A 7 is at the 37th percentile, while anything above a 37 and equal to or below a 52nd percentile is an 8.


Here is a list I could find by user3, FYI.

I was able to speak to a DO about the profession/field but didn't think that I could ask for a LOR based on that alone. Glad to hear it is an option though.
I will add more schools next cycle.
Thanks for the info!

Not at a computer atm, but 125 is stated to be the new 8. 123 = 6, 124 = 7, 125= 8, 126 = 9, etc.. 500 = 25. Also, 37-52 percentile is a 7. A 504 is somewhere between a 27 and 28. A 501 is somewhere between 25 and 26. You did worse on your last retake, which doesn't look good.

Even your link 1 states 125 = 8 in the charts. I didn't even look at it first because I already knew the conversion.

 

[adrian710]

Not sure why you retook when you got a 27, bc then you went down and that's not looking good but not a death sentence. With a 3.3 GPA and your MCAT scores, you should land a few II's. I think you will increase chances with more volunteering (200+ hours) and a DO LoR.

 

[StarFall]

Not at a computer atm, but 125 is stated to be the new 8. 123 = 6, 124 = 7, 125= 8, 126 = 9, etc.. 500 = 25. Also, 37-52 percentile is a 7. A 504 is somewhere between a 27 and 28. A 501 is somewhere between 25 and 26. You did worse on your last retake, which doesn't look good.

Even your link 1 states 125 = 8 in the charts. I didn't even look at it first because I already knew the conversion.

I disagree with the score, but nonetheless, my newest MCAT is still a dip in my score. I wonder how adcoms view a 124.

Not sure why you retook when you got a 27, bc then you went down and that's not looking good but not a death sentence. With a 3.3 GPA and your MCAT scores, you should land a few II's. I think you will increase chances with more volunteering (200+ hours) and a DO LoR.

My 27 had a verbal of 6 which I believe would've screened me out.

 

[AlteredScale]

I disagree with the score, but nonetheless, my newest MCAT is still a dip in my score. I wonder how adcoms view a 124.

My 27 had a verbal of 6 which I believe would've screened me out.

If your other two (or three scores in the new MCAT) are aboe an 8 you should be fine with that one 6. Moreover with the emphasized confidence interval the "6" won't be seen in the same light as a "6" in the old MCAT.

 

[StarFall]

If your other two (or three scores in the new MCAT) are aboe an 8 you should be fine with that one 6. Moreover with the emphasized confidence interval the "6" won't be seen in the same light as a "6" in the old MCAT.

Not sure I understand..
Old MCATs: 22 (7/5/10) and 27 (11/6/10)
New MCAT taken due to 6 in verbal. Thought I would be auto-screened out at many schools.
New MCAT verbal/CARS score is equivalent to a 7 or an 8.

Also, not sure which schools "superscore" or if that is even a possible comparison between the old and new MCAT.

Happy new year everyone!

 

[AlteredScale]

Not sure I understand..
Old MCATs: 22 (7/5/10) and 27 (11/6/10)
New MCAT taken due to 6 in verbal. Thought I would be auto-screened out at many schools.
New MCAT verbal/CARS score is equivalent to a 7 or an 8.

Also, not sure which schools "superscore" or if that is even a possible comparison between the old and new MCAT.

Happy new year everyone!

Oh I thought your present score was the one with an equivalent of a "6" in VR. Nvm then.

I don't believe the school I go to superscores. (KCU).

 

[mathnerd88]

Focus on your interview at ACOM. If you don't want to apply next cycle, see if you can find some current students or anyone who can give you hints. I think if you convey at your interview a strong dedication to medicine, and that you can contribute to ACOM as much as it would contribute to you, you may land an acceptance there. Try to find something specific about ACOM that interests you, and go from there. Every school is different, so look for that uniqueness and emphasize it.

With your stats, your interview becomes important, especially when it's already getting late in this stage.