Best EM residency if interested in pedi EM

[makesomerheum]

Hi,
I am a 3rd year interested in pedi EM. What are the best EM programs that train and position you well for a pediatric EM fellowship? I am interested in West coast (Cali/OR), TX, TN, and Philly but do not know the reputation for peds EM at these programs. Thanks for any insight.

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[corpsmanUP]

Just in case you did not know, there are also programs that incorporate EM/Peds into a dual 5 year program. Indiana University is one in Indianapolis. Peds at Columbus Childrens (Ohio State Em program) has to be some of the best EM Peds training around.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Just in case you did not know, there are also programs that incorporate EM/Peds into a dual 5 year program. Indiana University is one in Indianapolis. Peds at Columbus Childrens (Ohio State Em program) has to be some of the best EM Peds training around.

The combined Peds/EM programs are Indiana, Maryland and Arizona.. thats it.. Do your research though.. you can not currently get boarded in PEDS EM. rather you are a padiatrician and an ED doc (separate).

FWIW UCLA Harbor and Wash U are also solid..

 

[Orthonut]

OHSU? They seem to have a pretty good reputation (at least in Oregon) admittedly I know nothing about people medicine other than what my friend the MD tells me (I take care of her horses)

 

[makesomerheum]

Any other thought on this topic? Thanks for the great replies already.

 

[VALSALVA]

I'm thinking that any EM program that offers a pediatric fellowship would probably meet your needs. From experience, I know that Spectrum/MSU-CHM in Grand Rapids, Michigan sees a lot of kids but doesn't have a peds. fellowship program yet.

 

[CueDoc]

Memphis, ironically, has a peds EM fellowship but no EM residency. Most of the people taken there are actually peds or med-peds. IF you are sure this is what you want, consider med-peds in memphis (which is excellent) then peds-em, they take alot of memphis med-peds residents. Also, this gives you alot of options if you get tired of working in the ED

 

[doctawife]

Do your research though.. you can not currently get boarded in PEDS EM. rather you are a padiatrician and an ED doc (separate).

Sorry, EF, that's patently not true. Pedi EM is definitely boarded through the AAP, and that test is nothing to sneeze at. Sub boards get a heck of a lot more money and opportunity than those who aren't boarded.

Joan Shook, MD is the chair of the sub board committee for PEM at the AAP. She's my boss, so take my word on it!

Anyway, I think any solid EM program would be fine for PEM. Some of the best fellowships for PEM are (in no particular order): Baylor (Houston, TX), Boston Childrens (Boston, MA), Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (Philly), Utah (Salt Lake City) and Denver (Colorado). I'm sure that San Fran is also good, but I didn't research that one 'cause I don't want to move to Cali. Same holds true for Cleveland.

Basically anyplace with a really good pediatric residency program is going to have a strong pedi EM program. Dallas used to be the exception to that rule but they are starting a new period of growth with the new program director.

Where you do you EM residency (in terms of prepping you for PEM) doesn't matter as long as it was a good program. You'll get all the PEM you need in fellowship - that's what it is there for.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Sorry, EF, that's patently not true. Pedi EM is definitely boarded through the AAP, and that test is nothing to sneeze at. Sub boards get a heck of a lot more money and opportunity than those who aren't boarded.

Joan Shook, MD is the chair of the sub board committee for PEM at the AAP. She's my boss, so take my word on it!

Anyway, I think any solid EM program would be fine for PEM. Some of the best fellowships for PEM are (in no particular order): Baylor (Houston, TX), Boston Childrens (Boston, MA), Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (Philly), Utah (Salt Lake City) and Denver (Colorado). I'm sure that San Fran is also good, but I didn't research that one 'cause I don't want to move to Cali. Same holds true for Cleveland.

Basically anyplace with a really good pediatric residency program is going to have a strong pedi EM program. Dallas used to be the exception to that rule but they are starting a new period of growth with the new program director.

Where you do you EM residency (in terms of prepping you for PEM) doesn't matter as long as it was a good program. You'll get all the PEM you need in fellowship - that's what it is there for.

I think what EF meant is that the Peds/EM combined program don't give you board certification in Pedi EM. Rather you are board certified in pediatrics and board certified in EM. But I know that you know all this already!!!

 

[Dr.Evil1]

I was curious, if you really wanted to go into EM to eventually work ONLY with kids, ie work only at a children's hospital, wouldn't it be better to do a peds residency with a peds fellowship in EM? If you were ONLY going to work on kids then I would think that the residency training in Peds would be better suited for your eventual life then residency training in EM before fellowship. Thanks.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sorry, EF, that's patently not true. Pedi EM is definitely boarded through the AAP, and that test is nothing to sneeze at. Sub boards get a heck of a lot more money and opportunity than those who aren't boarded.

Joan Shook, MD is the chair of the sub board committee for PEM at the AAP. She's my boss, so take my word on it!

Anyway, I think any solid EM program would be fine for PEM. Some of the best fellowships for PEM are (in no particular order): Baylor (Houston, TX), Boston Childrens (Boston, MA), Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (Philly), Utah (Salt Lake City) and Denver (Colorado). I'm sure that San Fran is also good, but I didn't research that one 'cause I don't want to move to Cali. Same holds true for Cleveland.

Basically anyplace with a really good pediatric residency program is going to have a strong pedi EM program. Dallas used to be the exception to that rule but they are starting a new period of growth with the new program director.

Where you do you EM residency (in terms of prepping you for PEM) doesn't matter as long as it was a good program. You'll get all the PEM you need in fellowship - that's what it is there for.

I might not have been clear enough. What i mean was that if you complete one of the 3 combined Peds/EM residencies you can NOT sit for the Peds-EM subboards. Rather you can sit for the regular Peds board and the regular EM board.

I hope no one thought i meant if you do the fellowship in Peds EM you cant sit for the boards cause clearly you can!

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think what EF meant is that the Peds/EM combined program don't give you board certification in Pedi EM. Rather you are board certified in pediatrics and board certified in EM. But I know that you know all this already!!!

Thanks and yes..

 

[RuralMedicine]

I was curious, if you really wanted to go into EM to eventually work ONLY with kids, ie work only at a children's hospital, wouldn't it be better to do a peds residency with a peds fellowship in EM? If you were ONLY going to work on kids then I would think that the residency training in Peds would be better suited for your eventual life then residency training in EM before fellowship. Thanks.

I think if your goal is Peds EM at a standalone children's hospital and you know this before residency then Peds with EM fellowship is a great way to train.

 

[makesomerheum]

Thanks guys. Very informative. I think my eventual goal is international medicine. My thinking was to first do EM and get the adult training. If I felt weak in peds, then I would go on to a fellowship in pedi EM.
From reading on this forum, here are my thoughts on best programs in my two locations of interest.

In CA: UCLA Harbor, Highland > USC, Olive View > Stanford, UCSD
In Philly: Temple, Penn > Thomas Jefferson, Albert Einstein, Drexel

This is just the vibe I have gotten and not from any experience. Any comments about any of the programs would be appreciated.

 

[deleted109597]

Thanks guys. Very informative. I think my eventual goal is international medicine. My thinking was to first do EM and get the adult training. If I felt weak in peds, then I would go on to a fellowship in pedi EM.

International medicine has its own fellowship. If you want to do international, you will want to do that fellowship (some even come with an MPH).
You will feel weak in peds. All EM residents graduate wishing they had seen more peds. None wish they had seen more homeless people, trolls, or nursing home patients.
You may want to make your decisions on how programs structure their pediatric shifts. Some just do 4 months, others make you pull a couple peds shifts per month. That way you don't get the seasonal change that is inherent to peds EM.