Best/Favorite Medical School Curriculum

[Biochemistry2014]

Now that the majority of medical school interviews have been handed out/completed, which school(s) curriculum did you find the most interesting or impressed you the most?

I was impressed with Duke's curriculum. Rotations start second year before step 1, and third year is dedicated entirely to research, which I feel would give a huge leg up in residency and fellowship apps. Vanderbilt's was also noteworthy too, though their dedicated research time is about 3-6 months.

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[BurghMed]

Duke curriculum: 2 pre-clinical years compressed into 1 sounds exhausting and borderline miserable, in my opinion, but maybe it has its perks.

Of the schools I've visited this cycle, the 1.5 year fully P/F (especially without internal rank) impressed me the most and seemed to have an incredibly laid back and collaborative student body. I sense that many variations of the 1.5 year are helpful so students can determine their speciality of interest earlier. However, virtually every student at each school would extol the virtues of their own curriculum..."I can't imagine 2 years being compressed down to 1.5" or "having grades is important because it's something to base you on besides step," etc etc etc.

 

[WingedOx]

Any school with P/F clinical years. (I actually think this is more important than P/F preclinicals for reasons I've ranted about many times on this forum).

 

[md-2020]

Any school with P/F clinical years. (I actually think this is more important than P/F preclinicals for reasons I've ranted about many times on this forum).

Wouldn't this hurt you if you're gunning for top specialties though? Lack of distinction from the rest of your class?

Guess you'd just have to absolutely kill Step I...

 

[Biochemistry2014]

Duke curriculum: 2 pre-clinical years compressed into 1 sounds exhausting and borderline miserable, in my opinion, but maybe it has its perks.

Of the schools I've visited this cycle, the 1.5 year fully P/F (especially without internal rank) impressed me the most and seemed to have an incredibly laid back and collaborative student body. I sense that many variations of the 1.5 year are helpful so students can determine their speciality of interest earlier. However, virtually every student at each school would extol the virtues of their own curriculum..."I can't imagine 2 years being compressed down to 1.5" or "having grades is important because it's something to base you on besides step," etc etc etc.

UWSMPH I believe is beginning a 1.5 year fully pass fail curriculum starting next year. Rotations start during second semester of second year and they don't take Step 1 until second semester of third year.

 

[jb94mg]

Wouldn't this hurt you if you're gunning for top specialties though? Lack of distinction from the rest of your class?

Guess you'd just have to absolutely kill Step I...

Good luck standing out from the rest of your class at UPenn. Just saying in general; not a shot at you by any means.

 

[WingedOx]

At least in preclinicals you are entirely responsible for your own grade. You study, you answer questions, you get scored on how many you get right.

Not everyone shares my assessment, but clinicals are a dog and pony show where your evaluation is entirely in the hands of the subjective opinion of some faculty members who might only spend an afternoon or two with you at a time, all the while where you really have no experience and no idea what you're really doing. To have the competitive pressure taken away and to have the focus shift to taking in everything that you need to take in while not having worry that your class rank might take a hit because your preceptor didn't think you showed adequate enthusiasm for your 10th yeast-infection-laden gyn exam that afternoon would have made the 3rd year WAY less ****ty.

 

[jb94mg]

Any school with P/F clinical years. (I actually think this is more important than P/F preclinicals for reasons I've ranted about many times on this forum).

Can you name some medical schools that have P/F clinical years?

 

[WingedOx]

Penn is the only one I know of off the top of my head. Realistically only top tier schools can get away with it.

 

[phuynh94]

CCLCM does, too. In fact, you have NO grades in any of the 4 years. You get written evals instead. Don't know how much this baffles residency directors, haha, but it makes the program sound like a dream.

 

[neurotroph]

Can you name some medical schools that have P/F clinical years?

I think Stanford also does.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Wouldn't this hurt you if you're gunning for top specialties though? Lack of distinction from the rest of your class?

Guess you'd just have to absolutely kill Step I...

Most clinical is not p/f and that's what they look at mainly

 

[WingedOx]

I really liked Michigan State's new curriculum. It's very individualized and there's a ton of patient exposure from the start. True P/F with no internal ranking. I can't even fully explain the details of the curriculum, but the main points are that they are trying to make students do more in the clinics early in their medical education rather than just sit there and basically shadow.

During first year (Early clinical experience) students function pretty much as medical assistants with rotations starting during the second year (Middle clinical experience). Then during 3rd/4th year (late clinical experience) you have the traditional clerkships at a base hospital.

There are some other cool things about it, but I won't go into all of it here. This learning style might not work for everyone because it isn't really a lecture based curriculum, but I still think it's pretty cool.

If anyone is interested in the curriculum you can find all the info here: http://www.mdadmissions.msu.edu/Curriculum/default.htm

yeah, but you might get sent to Flint

*actually, most MSUCHM students/graduates I know really liked the Flint campus...just bottle your water.

 

[aztlannation]

UWSMPH impressed me with their new 3 phase curriculum...P/F all four years!

 

[mehc012]

Case Western
Vanderbilt

...

Clearly for very different reasons, haha!

 

[Pastamahn]

UWSMPH impressed me with their new 3 phase curriculum...P/F all four years!

UWSMPH is one of my top schools, so I'm pretty curious how this curriculum will turn out! P/F for at least the first two phases (is phase 3 for sure P/F?) sounds absolutely heavenly. Also, taking Step 1 during your third year is also an interesting idea.

 

[aztlannation]

UWSMPH is one of my top schools, so I'm pretty curious how this curriculum will turn out! P/F for at least the first two phases (is phase 3 for sure P/F?) sounds absolutely heavenly. Also, taking Step 1 during your third year is also an interesting idea.

It's one my top schools as well! I'm hoping for good news soon. I believe everything is Pass/Fail. But I can't say for sure.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The 1.5 year pre-clinical track (with step 1 after the clinical rotations) sounds very appealing to me. UCSF, Baylor, and Penn operate under this framework.

 

[themockjock]

During first year (Early clinical experience) students function pretty much as medical assistants with rotations starting during the second year (Middle clinical experience). Then during 3rd/4th year (late clinical experience) you have the traditional clerkships at a base hospital.

Ugh. This sounds like a glorified NP curriculum with "clinical experience" and "shadowing" being held above...actually learning medicine.

Maybe I'm old school and grumpy but this sounds like precisely the thing that is designed to appeal to pre-meds and enhance the brand of the school (just saying that phrase makes me feel dirty) without actually improving (or ultimately harming) medical education. Acting as a medical assistant as an M1 will teach you to... be a medical assistant I guess?

But you're not learning how to be a medical assistant. You're learning how to be a doctor and you need to crawl before you can walk. Get in a chair and learn the language. After you've spent two years just learning the most basic and minimal facts of medicine (remember you still need between 5 and 13 years at this point before you're considered well trained enough to practice independently), then you can start getting to the wards/clinic and seeing patients.

 

[Australopithekus]

Duke curriculum: 2 pre-clinical years compressed into 1 sounds exhausting and borderline miserable, in my opinion, but maybe it has its perks.

This is obviously sampling bias, but I don't think anyone in my class is miserable about our curriculum. Personally, I'd much rather have one busy preclinical year than two slightly-less-busy preclinical years. Our classes move rapidly, but I still find time to shadow, participate in IM sports, etc., and I honestly wouldn't want to slow down. DukeMed switched to a single preclinical year over 40 years ago; it's a model that works.

It would be false to say that there are no downsides to our curriculum, but I think for most students, the advantages far outweigh them: protected time for research or other academic development, more time following the clinical year to select one's specialty, a light longitudinal clerkship during third year, real clinical experience prior to Step 1--there are good reasons other schools are copying our model. Step 1 prep was my biggest concern when considering Duke, but I believe last year's class average was 240...

 

[BurghMed]

This is obviously sampling bias, but I don't think anyone in my class is miserable about our curriculum. Personally, I'd much rather have one busy preclinical year than two slightly-less-busy preclinical years. Our classes move rapidly, but I still find time to shadow, participate in IM sports, etc., and I honestly wouldn't want to slow down. DukeMed switched to a single preclinical year over 40 years ago; it's a model that works.

It would be false to say that there are no downsides to our curriculum, but I think for most students, the advantages far outweigh them: protected time for research or other academic development, more time following the clinical year to select one's specialty, a light longitudinal clerkship during third year, real clinical experience prior to Step 1--there are good reasons other schools are copying our model. Step 1 prep was my biggest concern when considering Duke, but I believe last year's class average was 240...

That's good to hear, I'm glad to know its perhaps not as stressful as it seems at first glance and that students have time to do things they enjoy on the side. thanks

 

[Hospitalized]

Now that the majority of medical school interviews have been handed out/completed, which school(s) curriculum did you find the most interesting or impressed you the most?

I was impressed with Duke's curriculum. Rotations start second year before step 1, and third year is dedicated entirely to research, which I feel would give a huge leg up in residency and fellowship apps. Vanderbilt's was also noteworthy too, though their dedicated research time is about 3-6 months.

But that's just wrong...

 

[Biochemistry2014]

But that's just wrong...

Its been quoted previously by adcoms and schools such as Oakland that more than 50% of interview invites have been sent out at this time....at least for their respective institutions.

 

[Hospitalized]

Its been quoted previously by adcoms and schools such as Oakland that more than 50% of interview invites have been sent out at this time....at least for their respective institutions.

Just trying to save hope for those who are not the typical SDN applicant. If there's still >40% of interviews to be handed out, that's a substantial amount.

 

[sofpink]

Here is a link from @gettheleadout to a spreadsheet with a lot of useful information from most US medical schools, it includes data like P/F curriculum, attendance, state,etc....
Here it is:

 

[Hospitalized]

Here is a link from @gettheleadout to a spreadsheet with a lot of useful information from most US medical schools, it includes data like P/F curriculum, attendance, state,etc....

Is there a way to download this? Or for you to post a downloadable version? Thanks!

 

[sofpink]

Here it is again

 

[mehc012]

Just trying to save hope for those who are not the typical SDN applicant. If there's still >40% of interviews to be handed out, that's a substantial amount.

Nothing wrong with preserving hope, but 51% DOES make a majority, so I'd go with a different tactic rather than simple denial.

 

[Cotterpin]

.

 

[Cotterpin]

Its been quoted previously by adcoms and schools such as Oakland that more than 50% of interview invites have been sent out at this time....at least for their respective institutions.

True, but doesn't it seem unlikely that if the interview season goes into the spring for a lot of places that more than half of all school interviews would have been given out already after like two or three months?

 

[22031 Alum]

But you're not learning how to be a medical assistant. You're learning how to be a doctor and you need to crawl before you can walk. Get in a chair and learn the language.

I wasn't big on "early clinical experience" as a student for that reason. However, I can say that the little clinical exposure (shadowing, a bit of work in the free clinic) I got early on helped inspire me to "get in a chair and learn the language." Even if the stuff I was learning as a VMS1 didn't seem to have direct applications, I could see that I needed to learn it to get to the point where I was actually doing the more interesting clinical stuff.

I'm not so sure I would've done well with early clerkships. I was young and needed every single day of my two pre-clinical years to be humbled and mellow out a bit over no longer being the "smartest." I can only imagine my evals otherwise.

 

[Affiche]

What I don't like about MSU's new curriculum is that the med students are scheduled to be in "structured learning" during business hours Monday-Friday, which leaves little time for independent studying, research, etc. There doesn't seem to be any scheduled time off to study for Step 1, just "intersessions", which you take two at a time, up until the week of your Step 1 exam. If you study independently, I'm not sure how you can really expect to do well in this curriculum.

Edit: and I agree that the early clinical experience seemed like it really just took time away from studying. I mean, I work in clinical research now, and I don't like the idea of spending mandatory time my first year of med school learning skills that I already use every day at work now. Drawing blood, taking vitals etc is great and all but it shouldn't be prioritized above learning the material your first year.

 

[ticktock5051]

Hey all,

I'll answer the original question shortly. I started another thread related to this and figured I'd post my question here too since this seems like an appropriate place:

I've been accepted to a few different schools (Rochester and UVA) and just wanted to get some input on how their curricula might impact my education.

Specifically, I'm wondering about their pre-clinical training. At Rochester, there's 2 years of pre-clinical classroom work. At UVA, it's 18 months. I LOVE Rochester's curriculum/focus but I definitely think there's advantages to a more condensed classroom phase.

Specifically, are students who complete training at a school with 2 years of pre-clinical coursework at a disadvantage when it comes to match since they're "competing" with students coming from 18 month condensed programs? I would think that such students would have more patient interaction and would thus be more attractive.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks so much!

PS: If there's a more appropriate forum to post this, let me know.

 

[ticktock5051]

Regarding the OP:

I thought Rochester's curriculum was the best I've seen. They've been doing their "Double Helix" curriculum for years and have gotten a lot of recognition for this. I've heard rumors that because Rochester's been blending basic/clinical science into their curriculum for years, they're exempt from the LCME curricular requirements that other schools must meet (which is why EVERY school has the same 6-12 core competencies graduates are expected to know). Furthermore, Rochester has a great emphasis on medical humanities and the "softer" sides of medicine. They claim to be known as the "liberal arts of med school" and I think their curriculum meets this claim. They ease new students into med school by not having Anatomy until week 8. As a student returning from a 2 year gap period, I appreciate this relaxed pace to education.

I interviewed at Vanderbilt and was impressed by their curriculum. Logically, I totally see the benefit of having a 13 month condensed pre-clinical curriculum. It essentially leaves you with two YEARS of electives after M2. Realistically, though, I think that for me it would be too much, too fast. Plus, students are required to complete a 3-6 month research phase in M3. I think this is just trying to pile too much onto the schedule and since I have very little interest in research, seems unappealing.

UVA seems like it could be a perfect balance of these two strategies. 18 months pre-clinical with hybrid lecture/PBL instruction formats. The only thing I thought was odd was their PBL methodology. At other schools, PBL sessions are done by groups in private with a facilitator usually in the room. At UVA, PBL takes place with all groups simultaneously in one giant room. Groups have their own tables with a facilitator at each. The entire room evaluates a case and groups can chime in with microphones at each table. Personally, I think this might be a little chaotic and I question how much students could get out of these PBL sessions when there's so many contributions being made from different groups.